PAC 12 WBB News

[Plebe]

Re: Oregon State game vs Notre Dame, copying from what I posted on the OSU Board:

Time for coach to shorten the bench. We need to have lots of minutes with no more than 6-8 players so we can develop some offensive rhythm. Our best athletes need to be on the floor going forward, and they are:

Taylor, Kennedy, TvO, Greta, AJ, Taya (these 6 players get 25-30 minutes every game)

After that it is Tea & Ellie (relief minutes)

After that it is: Emily & Jelena & Noelle, Jovanna (few if any minutes)

Rueck pretty much stuck with Taylor, Kennedy, Greta, AJ, and TvO in Quarter 4, and we started getting a bit of rhythm. Time to shorten the bench.

Many of the Boneyarders have noted over the past seasons that OSU plays terrific defense, but struggle offensively. And the games vs Michigan and Notre Dame showed just how dysfunctional the OSU offense is at the moment. The only pure scorer we have is TvO. Others on the team require an assist to score. In no way am I giving up, as OSU's defense is pretty stout, but OSU better get their offense dialed, or, OSU is going to lose a lot of close games.

Okay, I went back and rewatched this game, and the TL;DR of what happened is: Free throws. Oh my lord the free throws.

Oregon State was not good on offense in the first half, scoring only 18 points. Came out in the second half scoring more, but couldn't get stops on ND and found themselves down 20 at the end of 3Q.

The Beavs managed to seize the momentum in 4Q and chipped away at the lead. Van Oelhoffen (finished with 25) was stellar in the comeback. She cut it to 6 with a long 3-pointer and then to 4 with a tough driving bucket at around the 1:30 mark.

Kennedy Brown then missed 2 FTs that would've cut it to 2 with over a minute left, but Van Oelhoffen on the next possession made two FTs to cut it to 2 at the 0:31 mark. OSU had to foul, and Westbeld obliged by missing her two FTs.

With a chance to tie or win on the last possession, Van Oelhoffen missed 2 shots, but Brown got a rebound and was fouled on the putback attempt with 0.7 seconds left. Unfortunately, she missed the first FT. I would imagine she was instructed at that point to miss the second FT intentionally, although it wasn't apparent by the way she shot it and it actually came closer to going in than her previous misses.

Just in case y'all hadn't noticed, I don't care much for Notre Dame, and so I was hopeful that OSU would defeat them, preferably in humiliating fashion. The Irish were certainly shaking in their clogs as they collapsed down the stretch, and ever their usually unflappable freshmen Miles and Citron were, well, flapped. Has a team ever come back from 20 down in the 4th quarter? Oh well, would've been nice.

 

[Dokey]

Colorado goes to 7-0 taking down Wisconsin 67-51 behind another double double by Mya Hollingshed and 16 team steals, including five by CU freshman phenom Kindyll Wetta and Sherrod with four. The commentators compared Mya to the Queen on the chessboard able to score from any place on the floor. Wetta continues to make argument she is the best point guard coming out of the 2021 recruiting class. Transfers Miller and Sadler showed up big time in spots for CU.

 

[Plebe]

Colorado goes to 7-0 taking down Wisconsin 67-51 behind another double double by Mya Hollingshed and 16 team steals, including five by CU freshman phenom Wetta and Sherrod with four. The commentators compared Mya to the Queen on the chessboard able to score from any place on the floor. Wetta continues to make argument she is the best point guard coming out of the 2021 recruiting class. Transfers Miller and Sadler showed up big time in spots for CU. Depth. Depth. Depth.

LOL I mean I love absurdist comedy as much as the next guy but really the hyperbole is a bit much.

Best PG in the 2021 recruiting class? Really?? Better than Raven Johnson? Rori Harmon? Olivia Miles?

 

[Dokey]

LOL I mean I love absurdist comedy as much as the next guy but really the hyperbole is a bit much.

Best PG in the 2021 recruiting class? Really?? Better than Raven Johnson? Rori Harmon? Olivia Miles?

I said the argument could be made. That means she should be in the discussion. Have you even watched her play? Wetta was college ready the moment she hit the floor. Her defense is spectacular. It is in her genes. All I know is I have watched top basketball for decades and and Wetta impresses the hell out of me. We don’t know about Raven. She played little before she was injured. If she played for UConn, Nika, as much as I love her, would get more bench time. Azzi is a better three point shooter, Wetta is far better than her in every other category—her only three attempts have been desperate time expiring Hail Marys.

 

[Orangutan]

I said the argument could be made. That means she should be in the discussion. Have you even watched her play? Wetta was college ready the moment she hit the floor. Her defense is spectacular. It is in her genes. All I know is I have watched top basketball for decades and and Wetta impresses the hell out of me. We don’t know about Raven. She played little before she was injured. If she played for UConn, Nika, as much as I love her, would get more bench time. Azzi is a better three point shooter, Wetta is far better than her in every other category—her only three attempts have been desperate time expiring Hail Marys.

I had to check the box score to see what kind of fantastic performance caused such a bold proclamation.

2 points (1-4 FG), 2 ast, 1 reb in 24 minutes against Wisconsin (maybe the worst team in P5?). I'll give you that the 5 steals are nice but it seems like you are trying too hard to go against the grain on this one.

 

[Dokey]

I had to check the box score to see what kind of fantastic performance caused such a bold proclamation.

2 points (1-4 FG), 2 ast, 1 reb in 24 minutes against Wisconsin (maybe the worst team in P5?). I'll give you that the 5 steals are nice but it seems like you are trying too hard to go against the grain on this one.

2 of the misses were those wild throws as time runs out. The five steals doesn’t include balls knocked out of bounds, several near steals, almost total shut down defense on her opposite, smooth ball handling, directing the offense. She does in each game what is required. Last week was scoring in double figures in one game, making nine assists in another. She moves, really moves on the floor. And this comes from a guy who has seen ever UConn game in the past decade or two. Box scores are often meaningless. That’s why I asked if you saw her play. I have seen her in 7 games. She comes from good stock. Her mom played on Hall of Fame coach Ceal Barry’s teams in the glory days. True, she was only the No. 16 point guard and around 60th overall in recruiting evaluations but there is high school good and college ready. She might not have all the buzz given she committed to CU in the crib. All I am saying is that if she is playing this well just 7 games in her career, the future looks very good. Wisconsin isn’t much but they have a good coach in long time UConn assistant. And I am well aware that only two of CU’s wins have come against 2021 NCAA tourney teams so it remains to be seen how she’ll do against higher ranked teams. She is coming off the bench but that is pretty meaningless in Colorado’s constant subbing, starting early in game. There are lots of great guards. I am overjoyed we got her.

 

[Dokey]

I had to check the box score to see what kind of fantastic performance caused such a bold proclamation.

2 points (1-4 FG), 2 ast, 1 reb in 24 minutes against Wisconsin (maybe the worst team in P5?). I'll give you that the 5 steals are nice but it seems like you are trying too hard to go against the grain on this one.

But if you like stats. Her highs in 7 games
12 points on six of six
9 assists
6 rebounds (not too bad for a point guard, two of which were offensive
5 steals tonight edging her previous high of four, other games with 2 and 3
What you don’t see in box scores, as any true fan of the game knows, is court presence—knowing how to move the ball on offense and being a complete terror on defense. Lots of steals but also lots of balls knocked out of bounds, ferocious defense leading to shot violations or hasty shots with time running out. And remember she plays on a team with great depth, where 8-9 players might get 20 minutes plus a game. What mistakes she makes rise out of aggressiveness. She is far from what she’ll be one day but what there is now is, as Tracy put it, cherce.

 

[Dokey]

As Colorado waits to play Dixie State tonight, the press has taken notice of its defensive prowess though stopping short of calling it “soul crushing.” Part of the reason for this is a defensive competition on the team to be the player that gives up the fewest points. The results are updated after every game. Albeit the opponents haven’t always been top programs, the results are still worth noting. Among D-1 schools, the Buffs rank 12th in points allowed (49.3) and 16th in steals per game (12.4). Throw in five blocks a game and it is an active defense, fueled in part by a deep bench with fresh players inserted frequently. Whether it holds up against the Stanfords and Oregons remains to be seen.

 

[Dokey]

Colorado easily handles a height challenged Dixie State 78-53 as the CU bench gets plenty of playing time. Dixie State scored mostly on threes, as CU forced one shot violation after another. The Husky transfers both played well. CU played reserves early and often. For obvious reasons the school just changed its name to Utah Tech Iniversity.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Completely mixed results for the Pac today. ASU w/ an offensive explosion, put up 90 on the smart kids from Harvard.

Cal not particularly competitive against Arkansas.

USC with a big toe stub at home against USF, and it wasn't even close.

UCLA might've been stealing some of @Dokey 's patented soul crushing defense, absolutely demolished San Jose St. 112-33.

 

[dws3665]

UCLA might've been stealing some of @Dokey 's patented soul crushing defense, absolutely demolished San Jose St. 112-33.

Did I see correctly that SJSU went scoreless for the entire 2Q?!?! Oof.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Did I see correctly that SJSU went scoreless for the entire 2Q?!?! Oof.

That's what I saw in the box score. That must not happen very often.

 

[BruinGold]

That's what I saw in the box score. That must not happen very often.

It was kind of amazing. Although the Bruins definitely turned up the defensive intensity (the current group of 8 healthy players is probably growing more in tune with their rotations), there were a number of reasonably open shots that SJSU was just not able to hit. So, while impressive feats of "soul crushing defense" were taking place (and, indeed, the souls of the Spartans did not seem to be doing too well going in to halftime), there were also several layups that banged off the bottom of the rim, or off the front side, or that made their way into UCLA hands through mysterious means. So, good defense meets bad offense, plus demoralization taking the air out of the ball. The Spartans put up a decent fight in the third quarter, but the Bruins fixated on some individual and team records in the fourth and let loose as the game closed. I would be upset at poor sportsmanship, but UCLA can't actually put any scrubs in, and the Spartans were obviously playing for experience after the first half.

 

[visitingcock]

That's what I saw in the box score. That must not happen very often.

Gamecocks shut out the Longhorns in the 4th quarter of last year's Elite Eight matchup.

 

[Dokey]

New top 25 poll is out with four PAC-12 teams listed
4 Stanford
6 Arizona
23 Oregon State
25 Colorado

Injuries dropped UCLA and Oregon off list. They will be back when healthy. I love my Colorado team but they will be gone after a road trip to play two Oregons starting Dec. 31.

 

[maccca3232]

Below is history of this season's Bracketology by Creme (google sheet), teams ranked as per the recently released NET Rankings (thread).

 

[Dokey]

Colorado goes to 9-0 taking down Southern Utah 81-47, forcing 26 turnovers, grabbing 20 steals, and blocking four shots. 10 Colorado players scored. JR Payne continued her free use of substitutes, playing 9 Buffs in first 2 1/2 minutes, fueling that (fill in the blank) defense with constant fresh troops. Payne guided Southern Utah to its only Big Sky championship before leaving to take the job in Colorado.

 

[Jorislove]

New top 25 poll is out with four PAC-12 teams listed
4 Stanford
6 Arizona
23 Oregon State
25 Colorado

Injuries dropped UCLA and Oregon off list. They will be back when healthy. I love my Colorado team but they will be gone after a road trip to play two Oregons starting Dec. 31.

Oregon has individual talents, but I'm starting to think they will not be making any noise. They just have no chemistry.

 

[nwhoopfan]

JR Payne continued her free use of substitutes, playing 9 Buffs in first 2 1/2 minutes

What? Is she trying to replicate the CTT method of coaching? Is she doing hockey line changes at every dead ball?

 

[Dokey]

What? Is she trying to replicate the CTT method of coaching? Is she doing hockey line changes at every dead ball?

The play by play people compared it to hockey as well. She has been substituting like this for nine games, keeping fresh bodies on the court and pressing, pressing on defense. Fortunately, she seems to have the horses to do this, as there is usually no let down. It is almost as if she is saying she has four or five sixth (so)man. Miller, coming off bench, if you can even call this coming off the bench, has led the team in scoring two games in a row with 20 and 18. Individual subs enter every 90 seconds to two minutes. Somehow they maintain a rhythm. So far it is working. In the previous game she waited until the five minute mark of first quarter and then sent in five new players.

 

[Dokey]

I should add that this fresh body, constant pressure may work very well in Boulder, gassing visiting teams unused to playing at altitude.

 

[NWHoopFan2]

Oregon has individual talents, but I'm starting to think they will not be making any noise. They just have no chemistry.

Your entire posting history is as an Oregon hater. Give it a rest and see how the season plays out when three all conference players return from injury. They did win their two games this year when those three were in by 57 and 49…one against a team in the NCAA field last year.

 

[Dokey]

Your entire posting history is as an Oregon hater. Give it a rest and see how the season plays out when three all conference players return from injury. They did win their two games this year when those three were in by 57 and 49…one against a team in the NCAA field last year.

I think Oregon’s current woes are all injury related and when they are back at full strength, the rest of the PAC-12 needs to watch out. Is UConn the same team with Paige out?

 

[Dokey]

What? Is she trying to replicate the CTT method of coaching? Is she doing hockey line changes at every dead ball?

One other thing. This substitution pattern was made possible by Miller and Sadler (who is playing very well) transferring in along with transfer Jones and the emergence of freshman Wetta who, coming off the bench, is leading the team in steals on a team that is one of top steal teams in the country.

 

[Dokey]

Oh, and to everyone who had fun with me describing Colorado’s defense as “soul crushing,” I looked again at yesterday’s game in which Colorado rang up 20 steals, including on the first two plays, and racked up my brain as to how to describe it. And then the words came to me—

—soul crushing.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The play by play people compared it to hockey as well. She has been substituting like this for nine games, keeping fresh bodies on the court and pressing, pressing on defense. Fortunately, she seems to have the horses to do this, as there is usually no let down. It is almost as if she is saying she has four or five sixth (so)man. Miller, coming off bench, if you can even call this coming off the bench, has led the team in scoring two games in a row with 20 and 18. Individual subs enter every 90 seconds to two minutes. Somehow they maintain a rhythm. So far it is working. In the previous game she waited until the five minute mark of first quarter and then sent in five new players.

CTT has gotten diminishing returns w/ that approach over the years. I'm not sure if she even does it anymore. It works for maintaining defensive intensity, but it's really hard to keep up offensive flow when players are on the court for 2 minute stints or whatever.

 

[Dokey]

CTT has gotten diminishing returns w/ that approach over the years. I'm not sure if she even does it anymore. It works for maintaining defensive intensity, but it's really hard to keep up offensive flow when players are on the court for 2 minute stints or whatever.

It isn’t generally 2 minute stints, it is replacing one player every two minutes, who then might play five minutes or more. Sometimes it is replacing the five on the floor with a different four or five every five minutes. CU routinely has 8-9 who play up to 25 minutes. If Mya’s numbers are down a bit, it is because she often is in for 21-22 minutes, though if needed she is rested to play more. Miller has taken some of the pressure off her given that two top rebounders are out for the year. You wondered about Sadler but her game has really been impactful, more so every game. In a recent game starters played 81 minutes, the bench 119. It might be affecting the offensive end of the floor but forcing that many steals, that many turnovers, 20 plus in last six games, means more offensive plays. So far it has been working, against both weak and relatively strong teams. It forces the opposition to throw up a large number of threes, since they seldom get the ball in close.

 

[LoTrader]

It isn’t generally 2 minute stints, it is replacing one player every two minutes, who then might play five minutes or more. Sometimes it is replacing the five on the floor with a different four or five every five minutes. CU routinely has 8-9 who play up to 25 minutes. If Mya’s numbers are down a bit, it is because she often is in for 21-22 minutes, though if needed she is rested to play more. Miller has taken some of the pressure off her given that two top rebounders are out for the year. You wondered about Sadler but her game has really been impactful, more so every game. In a recent game starters played 81 minutes, the bench 119. It might be affecting the offensive end of the floor but forcing that many steals, that many turnovers, 20 plus in last six games, means more offensive plays. So far it has been working, against both weak and relatively strong teams. It forces the opposition to throw up a large number of threes, since they seldom get the ball in close.

Against OSU this approach could have success because OSU has limited experience against an athletic pressing (ball hawking) opponent. Not to say OSU won't be prepared, but preparing is hard if you don't have an athletic practice opponent. I think back to some previous OSU seasons/games vs UCLA & USC when both teams pressed in the backcourt the entire game. Result was 25+ OSU turnovers in both games one season.

 

[Dokey]

Against OSU this approach could have success because OSU has limited experience against an athletic pressing (ball hawking) opponent. Not to say OSU won't be prepared, but preparing is hard if you don't have an athletic practice opponent. I think back to some previous OSU seasons/games vs UCLA & USC when both teams pressed in the backcourt the entire game. Result was 25+ OSU turnovers in both games one season.

I have never seen a team so relentlessly press on defense for virtually 40 minutes. The team has a competition to see who has the fewest points scored on them individually and it is updated after every game. And almost everyone is out to steal the ball and several players have steals of 4 to 6 in a game. I think as a team they are averaging about 13 a game. A good three point shooting team can have some success. 60% of the scoring—30 points—in one game came from long range. Of course that team still lost big time. I’m a pessimist and I still see OSU winning on their home court. Then again I haven’t seen OSU play this year. While CU lost two rebounders to surgeries, they brought back most of their starters and really have improved due to three transfers and a freshman defensive terror. There just isn’t much let down among the 8 or 9 most involved. And of course should they falter, Mya steps in.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Cougs pick up a nice win at Gonzaga 51-49.