OT: World Cup

[Pudge]

I think Marquez should have played Robben differently. He brought the possibility of a penalty into that play. I think it was a call the referee could make.

The obvious thing is that, in this match and in many others, you saw lots of "impede" in the penalty box. Few are called. I think the lack of consistency - even on Marquez, specifically earlier, points that this controversy is part of the World game today.

 

[whaler11]

Worst games of this round are both today. Not expecting any surprises. But at least it should give us a heck of a game next time, as those loving and friendly neighbors France and Germany face off.

I think Nigeria may make it a game today. Tough to not see Germany stepping all over Algeria.

 

[whaler11]

Did you see referees in the Brazil v. Croatia game? Throw in that help and their talent, Brazil is still the favorite.

They will need the calls because they are extremely overrated. When they are moving forward off their goaltending things have gone off the rails. Maybe they dodged their bullet, but I think they will have their hands full on Thursday with the Colombians.

 

[whaler11]

I know people hate Robben but damn I'd love to have him on my team.

 

[upstater]

How old is Samaris?(spelling). I like watching him play. Where does he play?

Do you mean Samaras? Long-haired guy. He played for Celtic for years but is now a free agent. Samaris is a fast young player who is coming on strong, scored the first goal against Ivory Coast. He plays for Olympiakos in Greece. I personally do not think Samaras is a good player, though he is awesome in bringing down long balls. That's about his only talent other than penalty kicks.

 

[housekeys]

They will need the calls because they are extremely overrated. When they are moving forward off their goaltending things have gone off the rails. Maybe they dodged their bullet, but I think they will have their hands full on Thursday with the Colombians.

Yes, I agree. Furthermore on Colombia, while all the attention is thrown on their strikers (deservedly so), what I was impressed with is their defense. They have been solid, compared say to Argentina, with great strikers but questionable in the back. Colombia seem to have the entire package. What a game.

 

[housekeys]

I know people hate Robben but damn I'd love to have him on my team.

Fantastic player who also happens to be in form. Robben and Messi are two examples of players you can study and figure out a few weaknesses, like say going to the left or shooting mostly with the right, and yet, you still can't stop them.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think Marquez should have played Robben differently. He brought the possibility of a penalty into that play. I think it was a call the referee could make.

The obvious thing is that, in this match and in many others, you saw lots of "impede" in the penalty box. Few are called. I think the lack of consistency - even on Marquez, specifically earlier, points that this controversy is part of the World game today.

I've seen it over and over. He got tripped, and he made an aggressive move that caused the trip. Did he sell it, sure. But there was sufficient contact for a foul, and I don't think the ref had any option not to call it. I don't think he had lost control of the ball at all. That would be an even bigger controversy if it wasn't called.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes, I agree. Furthermore on Colombia, while all the attention is thrown on their strikers (deservedly so), what I was impressed with is their defense. They have been solid, compared say to Argentina, with great strikers but questionable in the back. Colombia seem to have the entire package. What a game.

I don't see Brazil making the final. Columbia then the France-Germany winner. They just don't seem to have it.

 

[upstater]

I don't see Brazil making the final. Columbia then the France-Germany winner. They just don't seem to have it.

Brazil can turn it on whenever they like. The performances they've had are not good enough, but Germany and Holland, as co-favorites, would rather face anyone else.

 

[intlzncster]

Thank you for your interest in Greek soccer. I am sure your opinion matters.

Every bit as much as yours does. And it looks like 2 people liked that post, so there's some agreement there.

In fact, I've yet to meet someone who says, I love watching the Greece National Team play.

 

[intlzncster]

No, it's BS in your strawman. If, as you say by the absolute letter of the law, it's a foul, then it is a foul. What would be BS, is if the same thing happens on the other team and no call is made.
And you have not answered my questions.

Not sure if you know what a strawman is, but that's not one. That was an analogy of how I view the penalty in a context of another sport (the board's sport). It was not a totally different sham argument from the one we were having.

The fact of the matter is it's a play open to interpretation. If it wasn't their would never be any debate or controversy, and yet there almost always is.

What were your questions? These?:

What did you think? If Campbell was impeded, as you say he was, then it was a penalty. That is my definition. What is yours?​

No, it's not. I do not think Campbell's should have been a penalty, even though he was impeded.

Players get impeded on many, many plays in the box. If you called them all, the game would be a farce. Back to the analogies (which again are not strawmans), if you called every foul in the NBA, there'd be no game whatsoever.

• You are also leaving aside the fact that this guy is a known serial diver, so should not be given the benefit of the doubt. If you do, you only encourage the kind of behavior that is the scourge of professional soccer.
• I've not doubt that if this 'penalty' was called against the USMNT in this particular situation, there would be a national uproar, calls for Robben's head, and demand to fix diving in the sport.
• And finally, as posted above, Robben himself (allegedly) claims it was NOT a penalty.

"I spoke with him [Robben] after the match and he told me that it was not a penalty,'' Marquez said. "He said that the first foul was a penalty and that one was not called.''​

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not sure if you know what a strawman is, but that's not one. That was an analogy of how I view the penalty in a context of another sport (the board's sport). It was not a totally different sham argument from the one we were having.

The fact of the matter is it's a play open to interpretation. If it wasn't their would never be any debate or controversy, and yet there almost always is.

What were your questions? These?:

What did you think? If Campbell was impeded, as you say he was, then it was a penalty. That is my definition. What is yours?​

No, it's not. I do not think Campbell's should have been a penalty, even though he was impeded.

Players get impeded on many, many plays in the box. If you called them all, the game would be a farce. Back to the analogies (which again are not strawmans), if you called every foul in the NBA, there'd be no game whatsoever.

You are also leaving aside the fact that this guy is a known serial diver, so should not be given the benefit of the doubt. If you do, you only encourage the kind of behavior that is the scourge of professional soccer.

I've not doubt that if this 'penalty' was called against the USMNT in this particular situation, there would be a national uproar, calls for Robben's head, and demand to fix diving in the sport.

And finally, as posted above, Robben himself (allegedly) claims it was NOT a penalty.

"I spoke with him [Robben] after the match and he told me that it was not a penalty,'' Marquez said. "He said that the first foul was a penalty and that one was not called.''

Yeah, according to the guy who committed the penalty. I don't exactly believe Marquez here. It's pretty simple, he thought Robben was going to play the ball off of him for a corner, got caught flat footed, and reached his right leg out awkwardly tripping Robben. His weight is on his back foot...his own poor positioning made sure there was no way the ref could not call it. If he had been moving to his right to close off Robben, and Robben trips on him, no call. But as it was, if he doesn't stick that right leg way out, Robben goes by him cleanly. Has to be called.

 

[intlzncster]

I think Marquez should have played Robben differently. He brought the possibility of a penalty into that play. I think it was a call the referee could make.

The obvious thing is that, in this match and in many others, you saw lots of "impede" in the penalty box. Few are called. I think the lack of consistency - even on Marquez, specifically earlier, points that this controversy is part of the World game today.

This is probably the best post on the subject I've seen. Especially the bold bit. Spot on. My position is an opinion, as is most others, but this is a fact:

If you are going to slide tackle late in the box, you potentially leave yourself open to the interpretation of the referee. In addition, if you slide tackle Robben in the box, you know he's going to dive, given his history, so you are guaranteeing the play will be in the referees hands.

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah, according to the guy who committed the penalty. I don't exactly believe Marquez here.

I'm not saying I do either, hence why I stuck the 'allegedly' in there (and 'fwiw' earlier). Robben did admit on Dutch TV he dove egregiously earlier in the match though.

The penalty brings to mind "The Italian Job", one of the worst penalty calls I've seen in a world cup. Australia vs Italy 2006 world cup -- 93 minute (slow mo angle at 30s is best):



Although, Hulk's penalty in the first round of this World Cup might have been worse.

 

[intlzncster]

I know people hate Robben but damn I'd love to have him on my team.

Of that, there is no doubt. I hate his diving, but I love to watch him play. He plays balls to the wall all game. I think he could score even more goals if he would drop like a rag doll every other play.

It's similar to Suarez for me. Despite his likely mental illness, I love watching him play.

 

[intlzncster]

I think Nigeria may make it a game today. Tough to not see Germany stepping all over Algeria.

Would love to see a good Nigeria game. Nigeria can be so hot or cold. Hopefully the hot shows up.

 

[intlzncster]

They will need the calls because they are extremely overrated. When they are moving forward off their goaltending things have gone off the rails. Maybe they dodged their bullet, but I think they will have their hands full on Thursday with the Colombians.

Brazil traditionally gets stronger as the tournament progresses. That said, I haven't really seen a hint of that yet. I'd be more worried about their defense than anything were I a Brazilian supporter.

I think this team is really feeling the pressure of being hosts. The only one seeminly unaffected is Neymar. Can he do it alone?

 

[upstater]

Every bit as much as yours does. And it looks like 2 people liked that post, so there's some agreement there.

In fact, I've yet to meet someone who says, I love watching the Greece National Team play.

Hello!

I love soccer, I've been playing and coaching since forever. The only thing that bugs me about soccer is the fans. This beautiful game stuff needs to be toned way way down. It's so prissy.

Same stuff we hear about 2011 UConn. As though Paul Westhead is the god of basketball.

I couldn't agree more with a part of this guy's opinion: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/jun/22/ninety-minute-anxiety-dream/

"Los Ticos have shown tactically how soccer should be played. They maintain a high defensive line, they are incredibly well-organized by their passionate and very shrewd coach, Jorge Luis Pinto, they are physically fit, young, and strong, they relentlessly close down the opposition in midfield, they have great passing accuracy and are fast on the break into attack. Costa Rica didn’t just win against Italy, they completely dominated the Italians in every part of the game. Take one moment among many. In the Italy vs. England game, Italy’s first goal was created by an Andrea Pirlo step-over or dummy from a corner where he drew across Daniel Sturridge, the England player, and opened a space for Claudio Marchisio to exploit. England were momentarily caught on the wrong foot, Marchisio wasn’t closed down, took a moment to look up and then scored with an elegant, measured shot into the corner of Joe Hart’s goal. Easy. Against Costa Rica, however, Pirlo was given no time on the ball, was consistently closed down or tackled. There was one moment in the second half when Pirlo was tackled and left on his bum in the middle of the pitch, looking lost and suddenly rather old (although he is a handsome devil).

Allow me to state the bleeding obvious: this is a tactical game. It is not about passion and individual genius, notwithstanding the relentless commodification of stars like Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar. No, soccer is about the use of reason and intelligence in order to construct a collective team formation that will contain and defeat the opposition. It requires discipline and relentless training, particularly in order to maintain the shape of the team and the way it occupies and controls space. This is the job of the coach, who tends to get reduced to some kind of either bizarrely animated comic character or casually disaffected bystander when games are televised. But he is the one who sets the team up to play a certain, clearly determined way, the prime mover although sometimes moved rather than unmoved"

 

[intlzncster]

Yes, I agree. Furthermore on Colombia, while all the attention is thrown on their strikers (deservedly so), what I was impressed with is their defense. They have been solid, compared say to Argentina, with great strikers but questionable in the back. Colombia seem to have the entire package. What a game.

They, like Costa Rica, play very well together and seem to be greater than the sum of their parts. Though I think some of their parts were underrated coming into this Cup. Costa: Bryan Ruiz/Joe Campbell. Columbia: James Rodriguez&crew. Amazing performance without Falcao.

 

[intlzncster]

Hello!

I love soccer, I've been playing and coaching since forever. The only thing that bugs me about soccer is the fans. This beautiful game stuff needs to be toned way way down. It's so prissy.

Same stuff we hear about 2011 UConn. As though Paul Westhead is the god of basketball.

I couldn't agree more with a part of this guy's opinion: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/jun/22/ninety-minute-anxiety-dream/

"Los Ticos have shown tactically how soccer should be played. They maintain a high defensive line, they are incredibly well-organized by their passionate and very shrewd coach, Jorge Luis Pinto, they are physically fit, young, and strong, they relentlessly close down the opposition in midfield, they have great passing accuracy and are fast on the break into attack. Costa Rica didn’t just win against Italy, they completely dominated the Italians in every part of the game. Take one moment among many. In the Italy vs. England game, Italy’s first goal was created by an Andrea Pirlo step-over or dummy from a corner where he drew across Daniel Sturridge, the England player, and opened a space for Claudio Marchisio to exploit. England were momentarily caught on the wrong foot, Marchisio wasn’t closed down, took a moment to look up and then scored with an elegant, measured shot into the corner of Joe Hart’s goal. Easy. Against Costa Rica, however, Pirlo was given no time on the ball, was consistently closed down or tackled. There was one moment in the second half when Pirlo was tackled and left on his bum in the middle of the pitch, looking lost and suddenly rather old (although he is a handsome devil).

Allow me to state the bleeding obvious: this is a tactical game. It is not about passion and individual genius, notwithstanding the relentless commodification of stars like Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar. No, soccer is about the use of reason and intelligence in order to construct a collective team formation that will contain and defeat the opposition. It requires discipline and relentless training, particularly in order to maintain the shape of the team and the way it occupies and controls space. This is the job of the coach, who tends to get reduced to some kind of either bizarrely animated comic character or casually disaffected bystander when games are televised. But he is the one who sets the team up to play a certain, clearly determined way, the prime mover although sometimes moved rather than unmoved"

Interesting post, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I'll take watching brilliant, beautiful play over over a tight tactical non attacking defensive team any day. That is why I didn't like watching the Italian teams of old. I prefer the newer version. Despite the fact they went home.

Yes, I like watching UCONN 2011, but outside of the title game, they had some awesome offense (Kemba/Lamb) with the most brilliant individual player in the nation.

 

[upstater]

Interesting post, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I'll take watching brilliant, beautiful play over over a tight tactical non attacking defensive team any day. That is why I didn't like watching the Italian teams of old. I prefer the newer version. Despite the fact they went home.

Yes, I like watching UCONN 2011, but outside of the title game, they had some awesome offense (Kemba/Lamb) with the most brilliant individual player in the nation.

What I am trying to say: I like to see the more committed team WIN!

But besides, Greece played more attacking ball than Costa Rica and Ivory Coast anyway so the discussion becomes irrelevant in that sense.

 

[intlzncster]

Nigeria looks good so far. Good version shows up.

 

[intlzncster]

What I am trying to say: I like to see the more committed team WIN!

But besides, Greece played more attacking ball than Costa Rica and Ivory Coast anyway so the discussion becomes irrelevant in that sense.

Now that was a lot more pithy! Academics. Smh

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nigeria looks good so far. Good version shows up.

Just made a hell of a save on a goal France should have netted.