OT: World Cup

[Gurleyman]

I'm not. Except for Ghana, Germany has outplayed every one of their opponents up to this point, regardless of score. Argentina is coming off 120 minutes plus PK's and the game and Germany will have a full day more of rest. Germany's defense may be comparatively slow, but it's still formidable and Neuer might be the best keeper in the world. I don't need to remind anyone what a solid keeper can do even with a less than solid back line, which Germany does not have. Argentina may have the best player, but Germany will have the better all-around team.

Algeria gave them a lot of problems - mostly pressuring the ball and creating turnovers with quick counters. Germany had the better of play over the full game, but Algeria had a lot of quality chances. Don't know if Argentina can duplicate that playbook - they may not have the energy and personnel for consistent high pressure.

 

[Husky25]

I do think you are overestimating how well they've played though, especially in comparison to Argentina. Germany has gotten wins, but certainly haven't looked sharp in every game. Getting pressed by Algeria was worrying. Algeria outplayed them for 90 minutes.

Argentina is 6-0 in the WC so far; Germany is 5-1. Argentina has not given up a goal since the group stage; Germany has given up two.

Romero is playing every bit as well as Neuer in this tournament, perhaps better. And Messi can make the greatest keepers in the world look like fools.

Algeria gave them a lot of problems - mostly pressuring the ball and creating turnovers with quick counters. Germany had the better of play over the full game, but Algeria had a lot of quality chances. Don't know if Argentina can duplicate that playbook - they may not have the energy and personnel for consistent high pressure.

Germany is 5-0-1 and one of the goals that they gave up was a throw away with less than 2 minutes remaining when they where up by a TD + PAT. I'm not saying that Argentina has no shot at winning (especially if it goes to PKs). Far from it. That's now how it works in soccer. However I think Germany is the better all around team and a better shot at winning.

I saw earlier today that the degenerates are saying the same thing. Germany is virtually even money to win. Argentina is at 5-2.

 

[bobbygt]

I think Germany is playing on another level right now.

I thought Argentina and the Netherlands were evenly matched and both teams seemed to have petered out as the tournament went on-Messi is starting to show that he's worn out carrying his team and he's not going to get any respite playing the Germans.

Germany, on the other hand, seems to have gotten better and they're playing with confidence.

Don't mess with the Meinschaft.

 

[auror]

Algeria gave them a lot of problems - mostly pressuring the ball and creating turnovers with quick counters. Germany had the better of play over the full game, but Algeria had a lot of quality chances. Don't know if Argentina can duplicate that playbook - they may not have the energy and personnel for consistent high pressure.

Agree, I think posters above are underrating Algeria. They led Belguim for 50 minutes before tiring and giving up goals, same thing that happened against Germany. They acquitted themselves well this tournament.

Germany has been the better team in every game this tournament and I think that continues. I will say that Argentina's defense has been exceptional the last few games (blanking Belguim, Switzerland, and Netherlands back-to-back-to-back is crazy impressive), but Germany has the most potent offense in the tournament.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I think Germany is playing on another level right now.

I thought Argentina and the Netherlands were evenly matched and both teams seemed to have petered out as the tournament went on-Messi is starting to show that he's worn out carrying his team and he's not going to get any respite playing the Germans.

Germany, on the other hand, seems to have gotten better and they're playing with confidence.

Don't mess with the Meinschaft.

Messi isn't worn out. He created several excellent attacking chances despite being man-marked all game by De Jong, and usually also Vlaar. The Dutch attack went completely in the toilet in large part because they expended so much energy trying to contain Messi.

 

[intlzncster]

Germany is 5-0-1 and one of the goals that they gave up was a throw away with less than 2 minutes remaining when they where up by a TD + PAT. I'm not saying that Argentina has no shot at winning (especially if it goes to PKs). Far from it. That's now how it works in soccer. However I think Germany is the better all around team and a better shot at winning.

I think Germany is playing on another level right now.
I thought Argentina and the Netherlands were evenly matched and both teams seemed to have petered out as the tournament went on-Messi is starting to show that he's worn out carrying his team and he's not going to get any respite playing the Germans.
Germany, on the other hand, seems to have gotten better and they're playing with confidence.
Don't mess with the Meinschaft.

I'm not sure why you say Argentina has gotten weaker, bobby; I think the opposite is true. They progressed in play to a greater degree than the Germans. I don't think the Germans have gotten much better. They've looked good from the start, but again, have been choppy. The Argentine defense, with it's change in starters has solidified.

Yesterday's game, like the game before it, was not a good barometer. That was a Dutch team playing to not get beat. If Germany plays this way, as they did against Algeria, they will lose. (I do not expect them to mind you)

The only reason Messi was pedestrian against the dutch is they doubled him most of the game, with De Jong shadowing his every move. The Dutch played not to lose, and kept 7-8 men back most of the time. Will Germany keep 8 back as well? I don't think so.

Messi was also hurt by not having the dynamic speed and dangerous ability of Di Maria. Outside of Messi's great scoring, Di Maria has been Argentina's best player this tournament. Hopefully, he is back next game.

Aguero's fitness was questionable as well last game. He should be relatively back to full speed by then.

Again, all that said, I favor Germany.

 

[Husky25]

Yesterday's game, like the game before it, was not a good barometer. That was a Dutch team playing to not get beat.

They played the same way vs. Costa Rica. The Dutch deserved to lose yesterday and they almost pulled it out at the end of regulation.

 

[John]

love this article about Messi, very interesting stuff

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

 

[CallMeBruce]

love this article about Messi, very interesting stuff

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

I actually posted this on the prior page, but if you like reading about how good Messi is, here's the sequel to that article: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-is-better-than-maradona-but-maybe-not-pele/

 

[intlzncster]

I actually posted this on the prior page, but if you like reading about how good Messi is, here's the sequel to that article: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-is-better-than-maradona-but-maybe-not-pele/

And I posted that on the prior page!

 

[bobbygt]

Messi isn't worn out. He created several excellent attacking chances despite being man-marked all game by De Jong, and usually also Vlaar. The Dutch attack went completely in the toilet in large part because they expended so much energy trying to contain Messi.

But he's Messi- of course he's going to create some chances.

Think back to Kemba in 2011 BET. He was often exhausted, but as he's the Man, he's going to come up with something at some point.

With the exception of those plays, I could hardly even find Messi on the field. Don't forget, De Jong was coming off an injury and was far from his usual pitbull self. Vlaar did do an excellent job.

The reason the Dutch attack failed had less to do with containing Messi, than their lack of forward moving talent in the center of the field. Wijnaldum, Blind, and Kuyt are not capable of moving the ball forward. If you watched the game, the Dutch defenders would serve them the ball and they'd either pass it back or pass it laterally. Sneijder too, who has had a superb career, is not what he once was and save his game saving shot against Mexico, has done little this tournament in terms of attacking the opponent.

Without an attacking midfield, the Dutch resorted to trying to serve Van Persie and Robben with long balls, which is very low percentage and gave their two most talented players little to work with.

 

[bobbygt]

I'm not sure why you say Argentina has gotten weaker, bobby; I think the opposite is true. They progressed in play to a greater degree than the Germans. I don't think the Germans have gotten much better. They've looked good from the start, but again, have been choppy. The Argentine defense, with it's change in starters has solidified.

Yesterday's game, like the game before it, was not a good barometer. That was a Dutch team playing to not get beat. If Germany plays this way, as they did against Algeria, they will lose. (I do not expect them to mind you)

The only reason Messi was pedestrian against the dutch is they doubled him most of the game, with De Jong shadowing his every move. The Dutch played not to lose, and kept 7-8 men back most of the time. Will Germany keep 8 back as well? I don't think so.

Messi was also hurt by not having the dynamic speed and dangerous ability of Di Maria. Outside of Messi's great scoring, Di Maria has been Argentina's best player this tournament. Hopefully, he is back next game.

Aguero's fitness was questionable as well last game. He should be relatively back to full speed by then.

Again, all that said, I favor Germany.

I felt the Argentines too, after a good first 20 minutes or so, sat back as well.

Germany will attack more than the Dutch, and they played a very high back line against Algeria, a repeat of which could create chances for Messi. But I just don't see Argentina winning this game.

Germany is better than the Dutch at virtually every position-forward being the only possible exception.

 

[bobbygt]

They played the same way vs. Costa Rica. The Dutch deserved to lose yesterday and they almost pulled it out at the end of regulation.

As a caveat, as you can see, I'm a Dutch soccer fan, so excuse me if I'm getting annoyingly defensive (pun intended!).

I disagree about the Costa Rica game comparison. Against CR the Dutch were trying to pick their spots against an overly defensive, and overmatched team. They outshot CR 20-6 and had 11 corners to CR's 1. Further, the Netherlands were called offsides 13 times- that is a huge number, but also shows that they were trying to move forward, but did not become savvy to CR's traps.

You could almost say that the roles were reversed in this last game, since I do think that Argentina has more individual talent than Netherlands, but I think it was less them parking the bus as it was their midfielders incapability of playing against a superior team. They weren't exposed this way against Mexico and CR.

 

[HuskyHawk]

They played the same way vs. Costa Rica. The Dutch deserved to lose yesterday and they almost pulled it out at the end of regulation.

I don't buy this at all. I watched it and the Dutch were much more aggressive in attack than Argentina, sending more men forward. They thoroughly controlled possession for much of the game and had the better chances by a significant margin.

Argentina has played better defense since the opener precisely because they have kept everyone back and rarely attack with more than 3 or 4 men. They rely on individual brilliance to get them goals. Yesterday it didn't. They are playing much like the Italians used to, and it's a pretty ugly brand of soccer.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Germany looks to be the better team while Argentina looks to have the better players going into the final. Germany will look to shut down Messi and I think what will determine if someone else for Argentina can step up because Argentina will need at least 1 goal to get to PK’s or at least 2 to win because Germany will get a set piece at some point and will bury it. They are very surgical this year.

My biggest concerns is that I hope Brazil does not burn down if Argentina wins and where the heck to watch the game as I am going away with friends to the Adirondacks and I don’t think there will be a sports bar within 20 miles of where I will be

 

[CallMeBruce]

As a caveat, as you can see, I'm a Dutch soccer fan, so excuse me if I'm getting annoyingly defensive (pun intended!).

I disagree about the Costa Rica game comparison. Against CR the Dutch were trying to pick their spots against an overly defensive, and overmatched team. They outshot CR 20-6 and had 11 corners to CR's 1. Further, the Netherlands were called offsides 13 times- that is a huge number, but also shows that they were trying to move forward, but did not become savvy to CR's traps.

You could almost say that the roles were reversed in this last game, since I do think that Argentina has more individual talent than Netherlands, but I think it was less them parking the bus as it was their midfielders incapability of playing against a superior team. They weren't exposed this way against Mexico and CR.

I'm not sure what CR is doing with their offside trap, but I seem to remember Italy suffering from going offside over and over again as well.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't buy this at all. I watched it and the Dutch were much more aggressive in attack than Argentina, sending more men forward. They thoroughly controlled possession for much of the game and had the better chances by a significant margin.

I didn't see that at all. Below are the match stats. The time of possession favors the Dutch because they sat so many guys back and clogged up the area. Argentina were trying to play their usual possession game, but there wasn't enough space.

The Dutch didn't get their first shot on goal until the 99th minute!! That says it all imo. Argentina had the more dangerous chances imo (sweet Messi cross to offside Higuain; Palacio penalty box header) . Several of the Dutch chances were outside bombs without a prayer.

Here's the shot chart (didn't look up on my own):

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not sure what CR is doing with their offside trap, but I seem to remember Italy suffering from going offside over and over again as well.

They were very well organized. That's why they went so far. Coach deserves a medal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I didn't see that at all. Below are the match stats. The time of possession favors the Dutch because they sat so many guys back and clogged up the area. Argentina were trying to play their usual possession game, but there wasn't enough space.

The Dutch didn't get their first shot on goal until the 99th minute!! That says it all imo. Argentina had the more dangerous chances imo (sweet Messi cross to offside Higuain; Palacio penalty box header) . Several of the Dutch chances were outside bombs without a prayer.

View attachment 6352

Here's the shot chart (didn't look up on my own):

Argentina blocked a lot of shots and disrupted play effectively on defense. But the ball was on the Argentine side of the field much more often. I didn't see them sitting back at all, I saw Robben, Sneijder and Kuyt holding the ball in the offensive end and passing it around for long periods without Argentina doing anything. Argentina was sitting back even more. They rarely had five men cross midfield. Their shots were on the counter.

 

[bobbygt]

I didn't see that at all. Below are the match stats. The time of possession favors the Dutch because they sat so many guys back and clogged up the area. Argentina were trying to play their usual possession game, but there wasn't enough space.

The Dutch didn't get their first shot on goal until the 99th minute!! That says it all imo. Argentina had the more dangerous chances imo (sweet Messi cross to offside Higuain; Palacio penalty box header) . Several of the Dutch chances were outside bombs without a prayer.

View attachment 6352

Here's the shot chart (didn't look up on my own):

Good stats- but Robben had the best chance for the Dutch in the 90th minute- he really could've scored but poked his touch too far ahead in the box, allowing Mascherano to dive in and get a foot on it. It might not be considered a 'shot on goal' but it was one of the best chances of the game for either team.

Argentina really didn't have any good chances until the 2nd OT, when Palacio had that weak header and Rodriguez delivered a very weak shot on a great cross from Messi.

Higuian did get a head on the cross, but the defender played it excellently and it never got on goal. So, the only two times Argentina seriously threatened the Dutch was 115 minutes in (Messi's direct kick was a decent chance as well).

I thought Argentina came out well to begin with, but I can't say that Argentina was the positive team and the Dutch played negatively.

I just thought Argentina played their game better: they put a lot of pressure on the Dutch midfielders, and stayed super tight on Van Persie and Robben, not allowing them time, which took away the Dutch offensive flow. Similarly, the Dutch eventually neutralized Argentina and with the exception of those plays in the 2nd OT, their defensive strategy worked well.

This was not a Germany/US, Netherlands/Costa Rica game- the two sides were fairly even and I saw both teams being equally cautious.

 

[intlzncster]

Good stats- but Robben had the best chance for the Dutch in the 90th minute- he really could've scored but poked his touch too far ahead in the box, allowing Mascherano to dive in and get a foot on it. It might not be considered a 'shot on goal' but it was one of the best chances of the game for either team.

It's not a chance if you don't even get a shot off. In the words of the Wayne Gretzky, "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

Funny how everyone saw the game differently. I felt Argentina outplayed the Dutch, though as you say, the teams were evenly matched. That said, I literally felt one moment of drama from the Dutch the entire game (Robbin effort). One. In 120+ minutes.

I think we all agree that it was a pretty uneventful semi. I'm hoping the Final far exceeds the two semifinal games (the second one dull, and the first with no drama). Hopefully the Germans score early, forcing Argentina to open up.

 

[auror]

It's funny that people are arguing that either ARG and NED were sitting back behind the ball, and seems pretty clear they both were. Neither team was over-committing on offense, and relying on pacey playmakers (Messi/Robben) to generate chances without giving up counters the other way. That led to very few chances for either team and a boring 0 goals scored before penalties.

 

[UConnDan97]

Going into this tournament, I felt like Argentina was the team to beat. If Angel Di Maria is ready to go on Sunday, I still think that they'll come out on top. It doesn't help that they have a day less rest after 120 minutes of play, but I think they have all the pieces to beat Germany. It should be a really tight game, though, and I have the funny suspicion that we'll see PK's...

 

[HuskyHawk]

Going into this tournament, I felt like Argentina was the team to beat. If Angel Di Maria is ready to go on Sunday, I still think that they'll come out on top. It doesn't help that they have a day less rest after 120 minutes of play, but I think they have all the pieces to beat Germany. It should be a really tight game, though, and I have the funny suspicion that we'll see PK's...

This is the final I predicted, and I had Argentina winning. Germany will attack, which will allow counters. Who capitalizes? The Argentines are not great on D when they are attacking. I think they sit back and hope Messi creates something with individual brilliance. The Germans are a better "team" and have plenty of skill. If Germany can score early as they did against Brazil, Argentina will need to come out of its shell and we should have a hell of a game.

 

[Dogdeacon]

This is the final I predicted, and I had Argentina winning. Germany will attack, which will allow counters. Who capitalizes? The Argentines are not great on D when they are attacking. I think they sit back and hope Messi creates something with individual brilliance. The Germans are a better "team" and have plenty of skill. If Germany can score early as they did against Brazil, Argentina will need to come out of its shell and we should have a hell of a game.

I think this is right from what my uneducated eyes have observed. Germany will attack and is likely to get 2-1 in chances and Argentina's ability to block and defend in tight ala against the Dutch could stifle those chances. But then Argentina need precise counters led by Messi to score - if they whiff on their few chances they are likely toast and if they play too conservatively the scoring chances will be more like 4-1 and they are doomed.
My prediction is Germany by 2 goals.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Today's the day!! I hope for a good game and an Argentina win!! I hope di maria plays and is healthy. Messi!!

 

[8893]

I will never forgive the Germans for bombing Pearl Harbor.

Go Argentina!

 

[intlzncster]

Today's the day!! I hope for a good game and an Argentina win!! I hope di maria plays and is healthy. Messi!!

Me too. Looks like Di Maria won't be able to go though. Huge blow for Argentina against a formidable German side.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...r-pulled-training-suspected-thigh-injury.html

 

[upstater]

I will never forgive the Germans for bombing Pearl Harbor.

Go Argentina!

It was the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor.







(Thought I'd be first with the knee-jerk obligatory response).

 

[intlzncster]

It was the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor.







(Thought I'd be first with the knee-jerk obligatory response).

A lot better to wait until some noob falls for it.