OT: World Cup

[Waquoit]

Donovan has, for his career, always been one of the most fit players in the world. He finished fourth in the beep test at camp. This nonsense about Donovan being out of shape or whatever is absurd.

We're not talking about throughout his career. We're talking about now. And we went through.

 

[UConnDan97]

Can we toot our own horn a bit with the "Germany will play to win" call.?

Yes we can! I can't even remember who I was arguing with on that one, but I'm too lazy to look back in the thread for an "I told you so" moment. All I know was that you were with me on that one, brotha!

 

[intlzncster]

I STILL care that he can't pass. But there are a couple of things to acknowledge:

1) You're right; he HAS been our best player to this point in the tourney.
2) His on-ball defending is so much more valuable at this point than his creation pushing forward.
3) If he hits another laser beam like the one he hit against Portugal, I'm going to ask him to marry me...

To be fair, I was being facetious about the passing thing. I'd prefer him to pass like pirlo if I had my druthers. But I'll take what we are getting.

 

[intlzncster]

Belgium's midfielder Defour just got a red card. He's considered a pretty OK player.

Maybe this helps the USA.

We take every thing we can get.

 

[UConnDan97]

Here's another thing that hasn't been said (and I'm afraid to jinx us with it, but I'll say it anyways): We've shown the ability to defend some high-powered offensive teams so far in the tourney. In the knockout stages, if we are tied up after 120 minutes, I feel REALLY friggin' good about the fact that we have Tim Howard and they don't....just sayin'...

 

[whaler11]

Without Donovan we made it to the round of 16. No two ways about that. And we were 30 seconds away from beating Portugal. The only thing that Don could have done would have been to get us past Germany. Would he have made that difference? As an older player off a game in the jungle heat?
So far the decision to leave him home hasn't seemed to hurt us.

Well yeah because Ghana fell short. When Ghana tied the game today and the US needed a goal, Klinsman had... Bedoya... it worked out but let's not act like it makes it a good decision.

 

[CallMeBruce]

We're not talking about throughout his career. We're talking about now. And we went through.

So, because we went through, every roster decision was correct? And, again, I'm also talking about right now. He finished fourth in the beep test in the camp that started immediately before this WC, behind only Bradley, Besler, and Fabian. He went the full 90 in all of his matches for LA THIS season. He is still, at this point, one of the very fittest players in the US player pool. Certainly fitter than Brad Davis, who was completely useless today.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Because if he doesn't play in this world cup, he can change national teams. We want to lock him in permanently.

I don't know if you saw my other post about this, but because Green was provisionally cap-tied to Germany (he played in official FIFA youth tournaments with them), he needed to submit an official change of nationality to be eligible to play for the US, and this is irreversible. Even if he'd never been called up by the US, he couldn't go back to Germany. Jones and Johannsson did the same thing.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I think one of the things that has been lost from the lack of a striker is not as much the effects on Dempsey (because I think he is effective in both roles, even though he's more effective behind the striker). I think the bigger effect is on Bradley. Bradley is not used to playing that high up the field. He would much rather play a little bit behind that, and with more passing options in front of him. I think that's the main reason why Bradley hasn't looked "himself" so far, but you could see the US trying to correct for that by sending Jones ahead of him on a few runs (one of which Bradley almost connected with him on a 40 yard beautiful pass)...

the us is doing great with what they have and with the injury to altidore... but for them to get better the US needs to get different types of midfielders... jones, bradley, and beckerman are essentially the same type of players, they're the type to win the ball and play square balls... thats great to have one, but you need the others to be more attacking as well as get back and defend... especially with mainly just dempsey up top you need another forward up there if you cant have any attacking mids... the midfield wins the ball and immediately looks to counter or just boot it up field

 

[whaler11]

So, because we went through, every roster decision was correct? And, again, I'm also talking about right now. He finished fourth in the beep test in the camp that started immediately before this WC, behind only Bradley, Besler, and Fabian. He went the full 90 in all of his matches for LA THIS season. He is still, at this point, one of the very fittest players in the US player pool. Certainly fitter than Brad Davis, who was completely useless today.

And Donovan causes no problems on the bench. Davis, Johansson, Mix - even granting they needed to keep Green it's not like there isn't room for Donovan.

Any argument against keeping him comes down to supporting JK's personal grudge over the good of the team.

 

[UConnSwag11]

And Donovan causes no problems on the bench. Davis, Johansson, Mix - even granting they needed to keep Green it's not like there isn't room for Donovan.

Any argument against keeping him comes down to supporting JK's personal grudge over the good of the team.

Here are five legitimate reasons, which when taken into account together, make a little more sense of the decision:

 

[UConnDan97]

the us is doing great with what they have and with the injury to altidore... but for them to get better the US needs to get different types of midfielders... jones, bradley, and beckerman are essentially the same type of players, they're the type to win the ball and play square balls... thats great to have one, but you need the others to be more attacking as well as get back and defend... especially with mainly just dempsey up top you need another forward up there if you cant have any attacking mids... the midfield wins the ball and immediately looks to counter or just boot it up field

Dempseys don't grow on trees, my friend...

 

[whaler11]

Here are five legitimate reasons, which when taken into account together, make a little more sense of the decision:

And here is the one thing that trumps all of that: If you need a goal to survive and you look down your bench and the best you've got is Bedoya, you went wrong.

They survived today because Ghana missed a header. It doesn't justify every decision the guy makes.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Here are five legitimate reasons, which when taken into account together, make a little more sense of the decision:

I've read that before, but here we go:

1) No, Johannsson and Wondo are not better than Donovan. This one doesn't pass the sniff test. I've already posted relevant stats for this.

2) Having Donovan on the bench would have been more of a media distraction than not bringing him has been? That's absurd.

3) The guy playing in Donovan's best spot is Bradley, who has clearly proven that he's not an attacking midfielder. The diamond midfield works much, much better with Bradley opposite Jones and Donovan up top. Better in possession, much better creator, and worlds better as a finisher.

4) What Donovan said was that he can't have 12 straight great training days. Since Dempsey was walking through a scrimmage and Johnnanson was given a day off for "tired legs," this doesn't seem unique to Donovan.

5) This is ridiculous hokum. There's no way you're going to convince me that Donovan wasn't going to outwork guys like Julian Green (who, by the way, finished dead last in the beep test, so much for "tireless grinders" as the 18th/19th guys on the bench).

 

[UConnDan97]

And here is the one thing that trumps all of that: If you need a goal to survive and you look down your bench and the best you've got is Bedoya, you went wrong.

They survived today because Ghana missed a header. It doesn't justify every decision the guy makes.

The irony, of course, is that Klinsmann has indirectly refuted 2 of the 5 points. We aren't playing a diamond formation (we are using 2 holding midfielders now behind Bradley), and Klinsmann clearly does not believe that Johansson or Wondo are good enough to be where Jozy is....well...because they weren't put into the game today when we needed a goal.

I like Klinsmann a lot. I mean, A LOT! Such an improvement over BB in my opinion. But it's okay to say that from a personnel and strategy standpoint, he got this one wrong. If it helps the team chemistry, so be it. But it doesn't help the choices off the bench...

 

[intlzncster]

So, because we went through, every roster decision was correct? And, again, I'm also talking about right now. He finished fourth in the beep test in the camp that started immediately before this WC, behind only Bradley, Besler, and Fabian. He went the full 90 in all of his matches for LA THIS season. He is still, at this point, one of the very fittest players in the US player pool. Certainly fitter than Brad Davis, who was completely useless today.

Outcome bias.

 

[UconnU]

Michael bradley was the slowest player on the field today by a long shot. He plays really stiff too and makes terrible decisions. How many turnovers does this guy have? my god

 

[intlzncster]

And here is the one thing that trumps all of that: If you need a goal to survive and you look down your bench and the best you've got is Bedoya, you went wrong.

They survived today because Ghana missed a header. It doesn't justify every decision the guy makes.

To be fair, we missed one too with a few seconds to go.

 

[intlzncster]

As Valvano didn't say "Lose and move on"!

What a lame sport

You know when Bill chimes in with negativity, good things have happened. Success! USA!

 

[Gurleyman]

As Valvano didn't say "Lose and move on"! What a lame sport

Damn - and here I was celebrating our national title this year even though we lost to Louisville in the last round of the previous phase. I guess I better tone it down now, since it's a lame title.

 

[whaler11]

To be fair, we missed one too with a few seconds to go.

94 minutes to get one halfway decent chance that would have probably been stopped anyway.

 

[Gurleyman]

94 minutes to get one halfway decent chance that would have probably been stopped anyway.

We were definitely outclassed, but we also had to worry about goal differential. If we started pushing hard after we fell behind and lost 3-0, the door would have been open for Portugal. They came real close to scoring again a couple times after they went ahead 2-1. Then Ghana quits and who knows. If Ghana were the ones who led 2-1, we'd have thrown the kitchen sink at Germany.

We know ourselves from the Confederations Cup that a 6-goal swing, while unlikely, isn't impossible.

 

[intlzncster]

94 minutes to get one halfway decent chance that would have probably been stopped anyway.

We were definitely outclassed, but we also had to worry about goal differential. If we started pushing hard after we fell behind and lost 3-0, the door would have been open for Portugal. They came real close to scoring again a couple times after they went ahead 2-1. Then Ghana quits and who knows. If Ghana were the ones who led 2-1, we'd have thrown the kitchen sink at Germany.

We know ourselves from the Confederations Cup that a 6-goal swing, while unlikely, isn't impossible.

Yeah, Dempsey said something about playing for the draw iirc.

 

[whaler11]

We were definitely outclassed, but we also had to worry about goal differential. If we started pushing hard after we fell behind and lost 3-0, the door would have been open for Portugal. They came real close to scoring again a couple times after they went ahead 2-1. Then Ghana quits and who knows. If Ghana were the ones who led 2-1, we'd have thrown the kitchen sink at Germany.

We know ourselves from the Confederations Cup that a 6-goal swing, while unlikely, isn't impossible.

When they got to about the 70th minute there was really no chance for Portugal to advance. Listening to JK it sounds like their goal was to attack at that point they just had no success. On the risk/reward scale once Ghana tied the game, it was certainly time for the US to throw caution to the wind - Germany was just too good.

 

[intlzncster]

When they got to about the 70th minute there was really no chance for Portugal to advance. Listening to JK it sounds like their goal was to attack at that point they just had no success. On the risk/reward scale once Ghana tied the game, it was certainly time for the US to throw caution to the wind - Germany was just too good.

I think the biggest factor was the Manaus game. As I said before, teams are something like 1-8-1 immediately after playing in Manaus. It's the biggest disadvantage in this Cup. Good riddance to that place.