OT: walking dead

[WhereistheDove?]

You'd be in a minority here. Most people, if they think there was a poor season, consider the 1st half of Season 2 to be the poorest.

If you think Morrissey is a poor actor, well can't help you there. Most people are gonna question that opinion too.

(at least you don't consider him the "worst actor ever" )

I think last night's episode was one of the worst of the series so far, but the first half of season 2 was definitely worse than this season has been. And I also like Morrissey. I think he's done a really good job of capturing the outward charm combined with the pure evil of his actual character. I always get a kick out of the people who watch these shows and then complain incessantly about them (my dad does the exact same thing). Either they watch because they just want something to complain about or they actually like it and can't admit it to themselves.

 

[meyers7]

1) Did they really expect anyone to believe the Governor was actually dead? Poorly written and predictable.

No of course not (he'll probably be around til season 4). But I thought she would get caught out somewhere. When she finally got to the prison, I thought, hmmm they're gonna let her make it there? Now they gotta get her captured some other way.....oh wait, nevermind, he got her.

2) Andrea getting grabbed by a walker up against the tree? They aren't ninjas. Found that poorly written as well.

Yea, kinda saw that coming, but you gotta throw some walkers in there somewhere.

3) I knew she'd be in the chair.

It's more how she got there. I figured she would get the Michonne treatment a couple weeks ago. The only way they can redeem her. And it seems to be working.

This episode was like a scene from Friday the 13th: Part 7 or something. A waste of an hour. No character development. No story advancement.

Actually quite a lot of story advancement. Andrea turned on Gov. Milton might be turning somewhat on the Gov. Tyreese is now questioning things. Gov's got another victim to torture now. Gov is passing from nutso to Dahmerland. We got some background on Michonne, we got background on Milton and the Governor, we got background on Tyreese and Allen. Quite a bit was covered.

Mazzara said they wanted to pay homage to the old classic horror films. Chase scene with a cat and mouse. They did that nicely.

 

[meyers7]

Somehow the Governor magically knew exactly where to find Andrea, and he tracked her to that building with ease at night time.

Well it wasn't really magic. He knew exactly where she was going and pretty much knew how she was going to get there. There's only so many ways to get from point A to point B. And she's not going to dawdle out there with the walkers, so she's probably going the most direct route. If she's not on the road, she probably cutting through here. No magic.

And you knew the Governor was somehow escaping those 40 zombies with no ammunition, but that didn't make it any less stupid when he caught Andrea at the end.

Well of course you knew, but it wouldn't have been that hard. They were coming from only one direction and there were only about a dozen, maybe 20. I'm sure he had some more ammo if he could get back to his truck. All he had to do was kill a couple and run out the way he came in the building back to his truck. (now yea it would have been nice to Andrea had taken the truck or disabled it. But then she probably didn't want to stick around with walkers around, and he probably had the keys to it anyway. No need to leave them if he's the only one. )

 

[Deepster]

No of course not (he'll probably be around til season 4). But I thought she would get caught out somewhere. When she finally got to the prison, I thought, hmmm they're gonna let her make it there? Now they gotta get her captured some other way.....oh wait, nevermind, he got her.


Yea, kinda saw that coming, but you gotta throw some walkers in there somewhere.


It's more how she got there. I figured she would get the Michonne treatment a couple weeks ago. The only way they can redeem her. And it seems to be working.


Actually quite a lot of story advancement. Andrea turned on Gov. Milton might be turning somewhat on the Gov. Tyreese is now questioning things. Gov's got another victim to torture now. Gov is passing from nutso to Dahmerland. We got some background on Michonne, we got background on Milton and the Governor, we got background on Tyreese and Allen. Quite a bit was covered.

Mazzara said they wanted to pay homage to the old classic horror films. Chase scene with a cat and mouse. They did that nicely.

Darnit. There I go being all wrong again. I forgot to ask what I was supposed to think again....

 

[meyers7]

Darnit. There I go being all wrong again. I forgot to ask what I was supposed to think again....

You are a slow learner.

 

[Dogdeacon]

B rating for this episode. Disappointed they totally put off the war, but ultimately it did a good job of building up to it. Hopefully next episode is not solely Rick's group's day in between building up to it. AND If they seriously consider the Michonne for Immunity trade I am going to personally re-fire Glenn Mazzera.

I thought the inexplicable bloodhound tracking skills and the governor killing machine were absurd. 5 episodes ago he was amazed that anyone could clear the prison and now he can take out 20 zombies with a shovel (i know he had a gun too)!? And how exactly did the Governor prevent Andrea from screaming out, then drag her back to his truck (Zombies? Had to be pretty far for Rick not to hear), then drive her inside the truck into Woodbury and then load her onto the chair with no one noticing or helping? Oh wait he had her mouth ducktaped.

• I did comically enjoy the Diehard homage with Governor breaking the glass, not sure why he thought that Andrea was barefoot?
• Also the whistling was quite chilling - was that a pirate song?
• Presumably the governor and that walker behind the tree are both part injun. Or it was a homage to Outlaw Josey Wales and the indian that sneaks up on Josey only to have the squaw sneak up behind him.
• I am doubtful, but I will bow down impressed if the governor actually uses ANY of those torture devices, particularly the speculum (sensors beware!!)

 

[Dogdeacon]

Well it wasn't really magic. He knew exactly where she was going and pretty much knew how she was going to get there. There's only so many ways to get from point A to point B. And she's not going to dawdle out there with the walkers, so she's probably going the most direct route. If she's not on the road, she probably cutting through here. No magic.

But that's where the show misses. Andrea knows they are after her so it might occur to her to be a little unpredictable, maybe leave a false trail etc.. But they never show her trying to do that or the Governor tracking her because frankly the show isn't capable of that kind of intelligent thought. Its acceptable though as they cut right to the action = as I said rated a B

 

[meyers7]

But that's where the show misses. Andrea knows they are after her so it might occur to her to be a little unpredictable, maybe leave a false trail etc.. But they never show her trying to do that or the Governor tracking her because frankly the show isn't capable of that kind of intelligent thought. Its acceptable though as they cut right to the action = as I said rated a B

Well again, she's is out there with a knife, she knows people are probably coming after her, her objective is probably to get there as fast as possible. Not to try to double back, go different routes (get lost), waste time leaving false trails. No, I think that would be dumber than just trying to get there as fast as possible.

But it didn't work, so.....

 

[Dogdeacon]

Well again, she's is out there with a knife, she knows people are probably coming after her, her objective is probably to get there as fast as possible. Not to try to double back, go different routes (get lost), waste time leaving false trails. No, I think that would be dumber than just trying to get there as fast as possible.

But it didn't work, so.....

She had no plan, not even a plausible excuse for the guards - again that particular element worked better for plot to show Tyrese's human side. But to just up and decide to leave with only a knife knowing the Governor would come after her was dumb in every respect. Running down the middle of the road that Woodbury takes to its walker trap, etc..

 

[meyers7]

B rating for this episode. Disappointed they totally put off the war, but ultimately it did a good job of building up to it.

Prepare to be disappointed then, I don’t know if they will even get to the final conflict this season.

Hopefully next episode is not solely Rick's group's day in between building up to it. AND If they seriously consider the Michonne for Immunity trade I am going to personally re-fire Glenn Mazzera.

They will probably swap back and forth. Prison and Woodbury. They have a lot to cover before the final conflict. Andrea, torture or not, Who’s side is Tyreese gonna be on, What’s the Gov gonna do with Milton, Does Rick give Michonne up, I’m sure something’s gonna give with Merle. And all that’s probably before the final conflict. I’m thinking there will be a skirmish before the final conflict. I’m betting on Rick’s group to try a ambush while faking giving Michonne back. So both sides are coming for an ambush. Which will blow up for both sides.

I thought the inexplicable bloodhound tracking skills and the governor killing machine were absurd. 5 episodes ago he was amazed that anyone could clear the prison and now he can take out 20 zombies with a shovel (i know he had a gun too)!? And how exactly did the Governor prevent Andrea from screaming out, then drag her back to his truck (Zombies? Had to be pretty far for Rick not to hear), then drive her inside the truck into Woodbury and then load her onto the chair with no one noticing or helping? Oh wait he had her mouth ducktaped.

Well again, the Gov knew where she was going, so it wouldn’t take much to track her. He could have just went and waited by the prison for that matter. He doesn’t necessarily have to kill all the walkers, just enough to get back out of the building and back to his truck, where he probably has more guns/ammo. Like I said they weren’t really surrounding him from all sides in the building.(besides you know he was going to live anyway).

To keep Andrea from screaming, I suppose he could have held a knife to her throat or a gun to her head. Then tied her up or knocked her out?? to put her in the truck.

I did comically enjoy the Diehard homage with Governor breaking the glass, not sure why he thought that Andrea was barefoot?

I thought that was more to scare her (scream out to know where she was), or summon walkers.

Presumably the governor and that walker behind the tree are both part injun. Or it was a homage to Outlaw Josey Wales and the indian that sneaks up on Josey only to have the squaw sneak up behind him.

Stuff like that happens in most horror or suspense movies/shows.What ya gonna do???

I am doubtful, but I will bow down impressed if the governor actually uses ANY of those torture devices, particularly the speculum (sensors beware!!)

Yea, I doubt they can actually show very much of that. Not sure how dark they are willing to go on the TV series. They went real dark in the comics. I suppose if anything it will be “implied”. He comes toward her with “X” device and it fades to black as she screams.

 

[Dogdeacon]

They will probably swap back and forth. Prison and Woodbury. They have a lot to cover before the final conflict. Andrea, torture or not, Who’s side is Tyreese gonna be on, What’s the Gov gonna do with Milton, Does Rick give Michonne up, I’m sure something’s gonna give with Merle. And all that’s probably before the final conflict. I’m thinking there will be a skirmish before the final conflict. I’m betting on Rick’s group to try a ambush while faking giving Michonne back. So both sides are coming for an ambush. Which will blow up for both sides.

Yea, I doubt they can actually show very much of that. Not sure how dark they are willing to go on the TV series. They went real dark in the comics. I suppose if anything it will be “implied”. He comes toward her with “X” device and it fades to black as she screams.

But aren't they at the end of day 1 & onto meet/exchange day now for Woodbury? I think the Governor does nothing with Milton. Forgot to mention the silly question about whether or not Milton still believes there is something left in the biters. WTF - his daughter was dead rotting flesh for xx? months. Ok the governor is insane but what exactly would Milton want to revive? Start a movement to coach 'biters' to be nicer!?

I think you are likely right about the setups (except any time spent with Rick contemplating giving Michonne up is dumb, dumb, dumb only useful as a mechanism for a Merle revolt). So agree in the end both sides try an ambush and to incorporate your points maybe the diabolical governor plans to sacrifice Tyreese and his group while flanking Rick, but Merle somehow penetrates their lines first and Tyreese escapes before the sacrifice.

Even implied torture I'd be impressed with, again particularly if it incorporates any specific tool. I'm saying those all are phony evil plot devices, I just don't think they are capable of showing him being that twisted. It'll be great if they go there though and really shock us.

 

[meyers7]

She had no plan, not even a plausible excuse for the guards - again that particular element worked better for plot to show Tyrese's human side. But to just up and decide to leave with only a knife knowing the Governor would come after her was dumb in every respect. Running down the middle of the road that Woodbury takes to its walker trap, etc..

Well no, all her plans had pretty much blown up at this point. Her only objective was to get away from the Gov and warn the Prison (and Michonne - who was once a very good friend of hers - granted that friendship is broken now, but I doubt she wants to see her tortured).

I doubt she really trusted Milton not to let the Gov know she about shot the Gov or that she was leaving. So to hang around and try to figure out some plan...... don't see what. She's already been disarmed (besides the knife). Just get out would probably be the only thing on your mind at that point. Yea you know the Gov is going to come after you, but it's best to be as far away as possible when he finds out you are gone.

Going down the road is probably the safest route, walker wise. Can see them coming....i.e. notice what happened as soon as she went into the woods. And you can hear the cars coming, so you know to get out of the way. I'd much prefer the road than hiking in the woods.

 

[meyers7]

But aren't they at the end of day 1 & onto meet/exchange day now for Woodbury? I think the Governor does nothing with Milton.

Yea, I think so. That could be a problem keeping time wise. See how they handle that.

I think the Governor does nothing with Milton.

Yea, maybe he waits until after the Michonne exchange/non-exchange. Not that much time left anyway. Besides he probably figures Milton's too afraid to do much or leave. So he'll be around when the Gov want to deal with him.

Forgot to mention the silly question about whether or not Milton still believes there is something left in the biters. WTF - his daughter was dead rotting flesh for xx? months. Ok the governor is insane but what exactly would Milton want to revive? Start a movement to coach 'biters' to be nicer!?

Well the last time he tried something, he probably still thinks he was getting somewhere with Mr. Coleman before Andrea killed him. He's a science type guy. Probably still thinks he can figure something out about them.

I think you are likely right about the setups (except any time spent with Rick contemplating giving Michonne up is dumb, dumb, dumb only useful as a mechanism for a Merle revolt). So agree in the end both sides try an ambush and to incorporate your points maybe the diabolical governor plans to sacrifice Tyreese and his group while flanking Rick, but Merle somehow penetrates their lines first and Tyreese escapes before the sacrifice.

I'm sure Tyreese and his group will be used somehow in the exchange. An ambush might be what changes Tyreeses mind about the Gov. I'm assuming Tyreese ends up with Rick's group since he's sorta coming across as a good guy. I could see Sacha getting killed, which could turn Tyreese against the Gov. ??

Even implied torture I'd be impressed with, again particularly if it incorporates any specific tool. I'm saying those all are phony evil plot devices, I just don't think they are capable of showing him being that twisted. It'll be great if they go there though and really shock us.

Yea, be interesting to see how far they go. As uncomfortable as it would be, I wouldn't mind seeing them go there.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Well no, all her plans had pretty much blown up at this point. Her only objective was to get away from the Gov and warn the Prison (and Michonne - who was once a very good friend of hers - granted that friendship is broken now, but I doubt she wants to see her tortured).

I doubt she really trusted Milton not to let the Gov know she about shot the Gov or that she was leaving. So to hang around and try to figure out some plan...... don't see what. She's already been disarmed (besides the knife). Just get out would probably be the only thing on your mind at that point. Yea you know the Gov is going to come after you, but it's best to be as far away as possible when he finds out you are gone.

Going down the road is probably the safest route, walker wise. Can see them coming....i.e. notice what happened as soon as she went into the woods. And you can hear the cars coming, so you know to get out of the way. I'd much prefer the road than hiking in the woods.

I would have ran down the road too, pretty much done everything she did until the Governor showed up in the truck. After that I'm taking massively evasive action.

So what you say is possible and somewhat logical, but all they needed to show this was thirty seconds with Andrea walking back to her room after the deal with Milton, she keeps glancing back at him nervously, nervously seeing where he goes next and then totally freaking out and losing it. Then she darts to the gate. Easy, but the show consistently requires that 'you' (some viewers) make these suspend disbelief assumptions and leaves 'me' (critics) sketpical.

Another issue is they finally gave us 2 minutes of Michonne - Andrea backstory. Too late for that which would have been way more interesting when Michonne was at Woodbury. Who cares about the identity of her walker buddies now that they've been dead for 10 episodes? My only conclusion is that scene didn't happen until now b/c they hadn't figured out how to write dialogue for Michonne until the Clear episode. Also they had an opening there for a direct and clear motivational tie for Andrea bolting to protect Michonne. ELABORATE and have Michonne say she was abused by those men (her boyfriend and his friend) that tied her up and beat or sexually abused her etc. This occurs to Andrea in a flashback after leaving room with Mitlon, HOLY SHIT thinks Andrea, can't let that happen to her again = freaks out = gotta run.

 

[meyers7]

Another issue is they finally gave us 2 minutes of Michonne - Andrea backstory. Too late for that which would have been way more interesting when Michonne was at Woodbury. Who cares about the identity of her walker buddies now that they've been dead for 10 episodes? My only conclusion is that scene didn't happen until now b/c they hadn't figured out how to write dialogue for Michonne until the Clear episode. Also they had an opening there for a direct and clear motivational tie for Andrea bolting to protect Michonne. ELABORATE and have Michonne say she was abused by those men (her boyfriend and his friend) that tied her up and beat or sexually abused her etc. This occurs to Andrea in a flashback after leaving room with Mitlon, HOLY thinks Andrea, can't let that happen to her again = freaks out = gotta run.

hmmm I hadn't thought of that. But that would make the opening make sense with this episode. I think it was Kirkman in an interview was asked about the opening and hinted it may come up again later. Andrea and Michonne are going to be around for awhile.

One of the things they do is drop little hints here and there and then build on them or come back to them later. It takes some thinking by the viewer, and I realize a lot of them don't get them (e.g. many people complained about them switching the Gov's eyepatch, not figuring out he was looking in a mirror or in "Clear" the first sign on the road said "Erin, we tried for Stone Mountain", then one of the walkers that attacked the stuck car was wearing a bracelet that said "Erin")

On the other hand, they have said they don't like to use too many flashbacks or give too much backstory. We, the viewer, are introduced to the characters "now" and we follow them from there. Not so much how did they get to this point. Same for the epidemic. It just is, and this is the world now.

 

[huskysupporter]

Meh episode again, but I did like Tyrese getting more air time. It is obvious he is going to help Rick and the gang. I was rooting for the Walkers to bite both Andrea and the Governor.

In a horrible season, I am still confident the last couple of episodes will be solid.

 

[meyers7]

Meh episode again, but I did like Tyrese getting more air time. It is obvious he is going to help Rick and the gang. I was rooting for the Walkers to bite both Andrea and the Governor.

In a horrible season, I am still confident the last couple of episodes will be solid.

He was Rick's Daryl in the comics....though they do change things around in the series.

Gimple (Clear, Save the Last One, Pretty Much Dead Already, 18 Miles Out) wrote the next episode, so have high hopes for it.

Although I thought last year was really good, this year has been light years better. With Gimple as the showrunner next year, it looks good for season 4 too.

 

[meyers7]

Whoop Whoop.

For anyone wanting to catch up, or relive. AMC will be showing Season 1 through Season 3 starting Monday night. Kinda weird schedule, have 3-4 episodes a night through Friday. Then Sat they run Season 3 straight through til the Season 3 Finale - Welcome To the Tombs.

 

[meyers7]

Some of you guys might like this. Walking Dead meets Homeland (or vice-versa)

 

[Fishy]

They've a lot of work to do in one final episode - things have just creeped along for about three weeks now. I have no expectations of a resolution to this whole deal next week - I'm not ready to bet that the governor will live to see next season, but I think it's definitely possible.

A few pointless points -

1) Just dawned on me tonight...Merle was in that awful Kevin Smith movie, Mallrats.

2) The Michonne not-talking thing is getting tiring. When she meets Darryl and he asks her a question, a normal human being gives out a few details about her interesting afternoon. She acts like a special ed kindergartener.

3) Things are very sharp in the zombie apocalypse. Swords and knives are always sharp enough to cut skulls clean in half and walkers can disembowel you with one nibble when normal people have to bite like hell to get through a Hebrew National.

4) Shopping for a wedding ring by scouting some zombies was pretty clever.

5) Is everybody on this duck*ing show British? Every time I see someone interviewed on The Talking Dead, it's a high-pitched British accent. If Darryl turns out to be British, I'll stop watching.

6) I get why the show runner was canned....from the odd pacing to things to loose ends that stay loose, the show is drifting a bit. Needs tightening up.

 

[meyers7]

They've a lot of work to do in one final episode - things have just creeped along for about three weeks now. I have no expectations of a resolution to this whole deal next week - I'm not ready to bet that the governor will live to see next season, but I think it's definitely possible.

I don't think they will tie up all the loose ends in the finale. I've said for awhile I see the prison and the Governor being in the beginning of next season. From the previews though, it looks like they finally do a full out attack of the prison. Also looks like either Team Prison has left or set a trap.

1) Just dawned on me tonight...Merle was in that awful Kevin Smith movie, Mallrats.

His other "big" role was the title character in Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (haven't seen it but it is supposed to have been good). He's been in some other movies; Jumper, Mississippi Burning, Tombstone, Days of Thunder (ugh). He gets around. I thought he did a nice job last night.

2) The Michonne not-talking thing is getting tiring. When she meets Darryl and he asks her a question, a normal human being gives out a few details about her interesting afternoon. She acts like a special ed kindergartener.

Did you miss her talking to Meryl. It think that's why he got rid of her, to shut her up.

3) Things are very sharp in the zombie apocalypse. Swords and knives are always sharp enough to cut skulls clean in half and walkers can disembowel you with one nibble when normal people have to bite like hell to get through a Hebrew National.

It's TV, everyone is a sharpshooter when they need to be also. Some of those heads are getting pretty squishy too.

5) Is everybody on this duck*ing show British? Every time I see someone interviewed on The Talking Dead, it's a high-pitched British accent. If Darryl turns out to be British, I'll stop watching.

Maggie is too. (Lauren Cohen) Although she was born in Philly. (mother was British and she was raised across the pond).

Daryl though (Norman Reedus), if anything he's Irish. (Boondock Saints)

6) I get why the show runner was canned....from the odd pacing to things to loose ends that stay loose, the show is drifting a bit. Needs tightening up.

I've read it was pretty mutual. He was pretty much as happy to leave as they were to have him go. They each wanted to take the show two separate ways. From what I've seen, Gimple will do a good job. At least he's a good writer. He wrote last night's show.

 

[huskysupporter]

Poor episode again, but I am very excited to see Darryl get some revenge.

Spoilers from this weeks episode

- Michonne barely talks all season, but then becomes a chatterbox on the road trip with Merle?
- One of Maggie or Glen is kicking the bucket this season. The marriage proposal sealed it.
- Starting to agree the Woodbury saga will labor into next season
- I am looking forward to Tyrese playing a bigger role going forward.

 

[Deepster]

I think it's a pretty simple equation.

Less Andrea + Less Governor = better episode.

Loved seeing Zombie Merrill. Loved Rick saying its a democracy and he's done making the choices. Loved Glen sealing someone's fate by proposing. Hope the finale follows a similar formula.

 

[meyers7]

Poor episode again, but I am very excited to see Darryl get some revenge.

Spoilers from this weeks episode

- Michonne barely talks all season, but then becomes a chatterbox on the road trip with Merle?
- One of Maggie or Glen is kicking the bucket this season. The marriage proposal sealed it.
- Starting to agree the Woodbury saga will labor into next season
- I am looking forward to Tyrese playing a bigger role going forward.

One of the best episodes of the season. Not quite Clear, or Killer Within, but still really good. Another Gimple written episode.

Unfortunately, it does not look good for Maggie and Glen. Can't have any happiness on TWD.

 

[meyers7]

I think it's a pretty simple equation.

Less Andrea + Less Governor = better episode.

Loved seeing Zombie Merrill. Loved Rick saying its a democracy and he's done making the choices. Loved Glen sealing someone's fate by proposing. Hope the finale follows a similar formula.

Maybe it would help if Gimple wrote an Andrea/Governorcentric episode. Maybe people just aren't as invested in Andrea and the Governor?? Although last weeks episode was very good.

I'm sure we will get some Andrea and Governor next week. I assume they will do something with the torture chamber. Either she gets tortured or someone saves her (Milton, Tyreese??).

Also assuming we will get some deaths in the finale also. Maybe lots of them. Not sure about the Governor though, still think that might carry over til next season.