OT- Tony Stewart | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT- Tony Stewart

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Strummer said:
You clearly have an axe to grind or you are unreasonable.
The video posted in this thread - the only one I've seen on the Net so far - pans away from the guy who got hit right before Stewart's car gets there, and so we only see a split second of Stewart before he has reached the guy. It's not even just unreasonable - it's ridiculous - to say that "he makes no attempt to miss the guy." You'd have to have a lot more video to see the path he was on.
Your conclusion here is UNREASONABLE.
He stayed up near his car until just before Stewart came around. He only started moving down the track a few cars in front of Stewart. So, really, only a car or two had to avoid the guy, and, of course, it was Stewart he wanted to go after, so he may have been even closer to Stewart's car - hard to see.
Your conclusion here is UNREASONABLE.
Sounds reasonable. But your implication is that Stewart was intentionally "high". Problem is, that track didn't look 4 cars wide. The guy's wreck was at the top. He was occupying the second width from the top. The car that passed before Stewart was in the 2nd spot. Stewart looked about 2 or 3 feet higher than that.
It's UNREASONABLE to imply that Stewart was "high" on the track inappropriately. He was about in the middle, and a least a car and half's width from the wreck. The problem was the idiot running around in the middle of the track.
Point is this. You are emotional/irrational about this. Not sure why. But when you make claims like "he didn't try to steer away from the guy" and all we have is 1/10th of a second of his driving path, it makes it clear that you want this guy guilty of murder no matter what.
In any event, I think it's not impossible that Stewart intentionally boarded the guy. Then intentionally drove close to him to try to give him the big Screw U. Heck, I even think it's possible, although unlikely, that he tried to hit the dude to send a message. Jeez - it's even possible that he tried to kill the guy.

What NASCAR should say about this is: "we sorry we've been remiss in our duty to protect our drivers. After today, getting out of your car unless there is a [color] flag out is an automatic 1 year ban."

What they will say is something about unfortunate accident, we'll review the rules, implement one a few days to weeks or months later that purports to solve the problem, and clear Stewart. Bank it.
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No axe to grind at all. And I'm not emotional or bent out of shape about it (sad for the dead driver of course).

Nor do I think Stewart intentionally tried to hurt the guy or even hit him. Probably just buzz him, but obviously I have no idea of his actual motives.

I backtracked on the acceleration claim, because although you can hear a throttle, it could be another car in the race. So I was wrong to on that one.

My argument was, and I'm of the opinion that, Stewart was negligent. The driver before him managed to easily avoid the guy, even though the guy on foot was the same distance down the track as when Stewart hit him.

I understand, from reading NASCAR forums, that this particular kind of car is very difficult to control. And of course is on an unstable dirt track.

I do think Stewart's known 'troublemaker' past should be a factor in this as well.

However, I think NASCAR will conclude this is an accident and Stewart with be cleared to race.
 
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superjohn said:
The only fact is that Ward was on the track out of his car, he was hit by Stewarts car and died.
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Wrong. You purposely leave out all of the facts that support innocence.

FACT - Ward got out of his car.
FACT - Ward walked down toward the center of the track.
FACT - Ward was gesturing and making other arm movements that most people would associate with anger.
FACT - Ward jumped back and forth.
FACT - Stewart is only in the video for a fraction of a second and there is no reliable way to judge his speed or angle at this point.
FACT - There is no "fishtail" apparent other than a fishtail after body impact and in the direction opposite Ward.
FACT - Ward was wearing all black.
FACT - Ward walked onto a part of the track on which cars drive.
FACT - Ward violated NASCAR rules when he did that.

Point is this - at this moment in time, all the facts support that nothing criminal is provable here, whether or not Stewart was reckless or intended harm.

If more information comes out, that is subject to change.

FOR EXAMPLE

Pit crew reports Stewart saying, "I'm gunnuh scare that boy," half a lap after pushing him into the wall.
New video shows that Stewart took a wide angle around the turn.
New video shows Stewart fishtailed his butt out wide right immediately prior to impact.
New video or review of current video shows Stewart accelerating or traveling substantially faster than other cars.
And so on.

But right now - you're just a hanging judge. That's it. You're wildly jumping to conclusions. You imparting intention upon Stewart with only 1/10 of a second of video and a couple decades of dislike for the guy to support your conclusion.

You're a hanging judge.

I used to be. Then I went to law school and saw how screwed up our system was, and how critical to freedom the presumption of innocence is.
 
intlzncster said:
I'm pretty sure Stewart actually accelerated into him. At least it looks that way on video. And you can hear the throttle pump. I could be wrong, but I need solid proof of that.
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He kind of fishtailed at the end. When the drive wheels lose traction, the RPMs are going to rise. IMO, there's nothing in that video that suggests to me that he purposely accelerated into him. You're talking about a type of motorsport that has much less grip than road racing and any sudden reactions could have had him lose control. I think you're looking at this through the lens of everyday driving when these are two VERY different things.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
He kind of fishtailed at the end. When the drive wheels lose traction, the RPMs are going to rise. IMO, there's nothing in that video that suggests to me that he purposely accelerated into him. You're talking about a type of motorsport that has much less grip than road racing and any sudden reactions could have had him lose control. I think you're looking at this through the lens of everyday driving when these are two VERY different things.
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Yeah, I've backtracked from the acceleration viewpoint. The pump of the throttle that I'm hearing could have been another car.
 
Anyone know how fast he was going?

Edit: Apparently he was going 30-35 mph.
 
intlzncster said:
Yeah, I've backtracked from the acceleration viewpoint. The pump of the throttle that I'm hearing could have been another car.
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Yeah, I saw that reading through the thread. I was actually autocrossing my car today and the consensus from the guys I talked to with a lot of autocross, road course, rally, and ice racing experience is that there was nothing in the video that would lead them to believe that he purposely did it.
 
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uconnell said:
Something similar happen to my son when he was racing,the driver got out of the car and was standing in the middle of the track. It was hit her or hit her car, so he hit her car, no where else to go, of course she went crazy on him.
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Sorry your son (and you) had to go through that.
 
Nothing can be confirmed from the video. But is reasonable to entertain the notion that Stewart, who drove him off the track, may have been less than appropriately careful when he approached the location of the crashed car in his next lap. Certainly worthy of investigation. If Stewart, with no intent to kill, was behaving "tough" and a little reckless in a show of machismo, he could end up with serious charges regardless of Ward being on the ,
Their must be other pictures, hopefully video to resolve this. But if he is guilty of nothing criminal he sure showed himself to be a grade A a**hole
 
Looks like he broke his back. His feet where straight up and his head facing down. I don't watch nascar or follow any of this but its a big name and something tragic happened they will take a real close look at it. I expect he will get suspended for a year, something like that. Hard to come up with proof he tried to hit him. I would guess he was trying to scare him though. I am guessing he figured he would get out of the car. Its sad and not to be insensitive but....

Getting out of a car and running out into a race track full of speeding cars on dirt=darwin awards
 
Go Viagra car, hell ya!

What the hell is a successful NASCAR driver doing messing around on a small side track? The "sport" is a joke.
 
These small tracks love to see big stars come to town. It happens all the time and they do it for love of the sport and to give something back to the fans. Sadly he made a huge and tragic mistake here that could cost him everything.

(PS I posted this in Pro Sports Topic a bit ago)
 
I watched the video and the first thing that got me was I was shocked Stewart actually races go karts. Then I was shocked that the event was videoed as if the fan knew something was coming. Then the idiot, Ward, for walking right into the race!!!

Have no idea what Stewart was thinking or seeing.
 
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Well Stewart was wearing a go pro, so hopefully that was confiscated by police as soon as he came off the track.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Yeah, I saw that reading through the thread. I was actually autocrossing my car today and the consensus from the guys I talked to with a lot of autocross, road course, rally, and ice racing experience is that there was nothing in the video that would lead them to believe that he purposely did it.
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Sorry, pal, but we've got a board full if Internet detectives, and we're going to come to ironclad conclusions based on the absolute minimum of evidence, and certainly no relevant expertise.
 
minidarren said:
Go Viagra car, hell ya!

What the hell is a successful NASCAR driver doing messing around on a small side track? The "sport" is a joke.
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No kidding. That's as dumb as an NBA player playing in some off-season pick up games in a high school gym.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Sorry, pal, but we've got a board full if Internet detectives, and we're going to come to ironclad conclusions based on the absolute minimum of evidence, and certainly no relevant expertise.
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Ahhh gotta love the internet. Where driving your accord to work everyday gives you the knowledge to judge how he was handling his race car on a banked dirt track.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Ahhh gotta love the internet. Where driving your accord to work everyday gives you the knowledge to judge how he was handling his race car on a banked dirt track.
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I'm sorry, but I've looked over the evidence and it is perfectly clear that those tracks could not have been made by a '64 Buick Skylark.
 
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Strummer said:
I'd rather watch The View than Nascar, so I don't have any horse in this race.

It's completely, unequivocally silly to even mention criminal charges in this matter.

Here are the facts:

Dude wearing black outfit and black helmet gets onto dark track and puts himself into the potential path of oncoming vehicles, which he knows are there.

He intentionally puts himself into close proximity with a car driver.

He is hit and killed by that driver.

The video doesn't show Stewart "speeding up" or "driving at him." If anything, he was worried about hitting this Darwinian Exhibit A and steered left, causing his ass end to kick out right.

No reasonable person could conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, or even close to that standard, that Stewart intentionally or recklessly hit this idiot.

Not to be put too blunt a tip on it - but you either have an axe to grind against this guy or you're not a reasonable person if you look at this and think that this is criminal liability here.

And this is what is scary about the justice system - get a DA looking for exposure or a LEO with no common sense and maybe they start the process and this becomes a huge waste of everybody's time.
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Clearly you haven't watched a lot of racing or are not familiar with the skills and abilities of an experienced driver like Tony Stewart. While there is no way Tony intended to hit the young man, witness accounts and the circumstances of the incident suggest he purposely made an aggressive and negligent move that while not intended to hurt anyone, was the main factor in his death. These situations happen all the time and are predictable to the driver who dumps an opponent into the fence. While I've never seen one end like this I'll bet there have been close calls that we'll be hearing about.

Given his experience and talent level one could suggest Tony either knew, or should have anticipated the other driver would approach his car. If in fact he did what people are saying he made a tragic mistake despite the actions of the other driver. Trying to scare the other guy rather than avoiding him may have looked like a split second decision to you and me, but that's because we're not an elite driver in NASCAR and multiple other racing divisions. I'm not anti Tony Stewart in any way but suggesting anyone who might find him at fault here is unreasonable speaks to a degree of naivety (kindly phrased) on this subject.
 
jleves said:
The Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark.

Anyone else get this reference?
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Joe Pesci in My cousin Vinnie
The last Movie of Fred Gwynn.
Shakespearean actor turned TV legendary goofball.
 
Jimdish255 said:
. . . but suggesting anyone who might find him at fault here is unreasonable speaks to a degree of naivety (kindly phrased) on this subject.
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Yeah man, but that's not what I wrote. I wrote that believing that there is criminal liability is unreasonable. BIG DIFFERENCE. Not the same as "find him at fault."

Surely it may have been his fault, in whole or in part. But the evidence presented doesn't come close to constituting a crime, whether or not he has any fault.
 
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The fishtail after he hit the guy is probably a result of his having hit the guy.

If that tape is all there is, there is no way he's even charged.
 
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Jimdish255 said:
Given his experience and talent level one could suggest Tony either knew, or should have anticipated the other driver would approach his car. If in fact he did what people are saying he made a tragic mistake despite the actions of the other driver. Trying to scare the other guy rather than avoiding him may have looked like a split second decision to you and me, but that's because we're not an elite driver in NASCAR and multiple other racing divisions. I'm not anti Tony Stewart in any way but suggesting anyone who might find him at fault here is unreasonable speaks to a degree of naivety (kindly phrased) on this subject.
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Are you honestly suggesting that Tony Stewart should have known that this guy would run out onto a hot track? I'm sorry but I find that 100% ridiculous.
 
The root cause is that a young guy was trying to act like his heroes and he did something stupid like walk into traffic. In typical NASCAR fashion, they will now close the barn door after the animals got out.
 
Strummer, you went to law school? And you think there has to be intent to kill to be charged with a crime?
 
David 76 said:
Strummer, you went to law school? And you think there has to be intent to kill to be charged with a crime?
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There has to be intent to commit a crime. Not necessarily intent to kill. Maybe intent to intimidate. Which Strummer is implying there is no evidence of, and I agree. That's how the court system works. You need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone committed a crime, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt, given the facts.
 
intlzncster said:
That's insane. Those aren't facts. Most of those are opinions.




Stewart makes no attempt to miss the guy, and even turns into him a little.

Other drivers had no problem missing the guy.

When there's a wreck on top, you drop the to the bottom.

I don't care one lick about Stewart one way or the other.

And I agree the guy walking on the track is an idiot.

We'll see what NASCAR has to say about the vehicular manslaughter.
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you do realize it's a dirt track... cars don't quite turn on a dime.
if anything, it looks like he tried to turn at the last second.

as for other drivers missing him, its more like the kid avoided the other cars then closed in on Tony's car.
 
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