OT: Pats | Page 5 | The Boneyard

OT: Pats

mauconnfan said:
No I promise you it's the fans who made me dislike them as much as I do, nothing else. As I've stated so many times when I moved here to WesMass I was fine with them, living amongst them, some who are good friends, they never act as if they've been there. Though maybe the first couple was just a maturing process but no, they are who they are and it's not all but it is a majority. Games are unwatchable with most, it's crazy.

The OP is one of them I am sure, don't need to meet him just a post like that is what I speak of. Let's bow to the almighty Pats fans.

Just be happy, the rubbing in crap is childish but everywhere here so I am used to it. I've had similar texts all day I promise.
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You know nothing about me, so don't cast me in your sweeping generalizations. I suffered w arrogant Giant fans in the mid 80s while my team went 1-15 every other year. I suffered when all NY fans ran wild w cheating allegations that amounted to nothing in terms of a real football advantage. I suffered when the Giants ruined our perfect season on the luckiest play in the history of sports, and then did it again 4 years later. I suffered w the deflatgate BS in a game the Pats won by 28 points AFTER the "alleged" cheating was discovered. So you bet your ass I'm gonna give NY fans a hard time any time I get a chance. If you are too thin-skinned to deal with it, maybe you should go root for the Browns.

And by the way, I'm sure you would be the FIRST to come on here and crow if it was the Giants, so get off your high horse.
 
I actually agree with @JSM1970 on this take. It's not the Patriots' fault. They're great and everybody else isn't.

As a disclaimer, I'm still a slave to the sport. I still watch, I still look forward to the games, and I still get excited when something cool happens.

But the league is bad. I don't think any of these teams are particularly good. This doesn't strike me as a vintage Patriots team and I'm still not convinced Atlanta's defense is any good. There's not a single complete team in the sport and you can't sell me on it being the ultimate team sport when deeply flawed teams are advancing deep into the playoffs. That Packers team yesterday was DOA. They were completely decimated in the secondary, and that's what cheapens all of this so much: it's very rarely the best team that wins so much as it is the healthiest. That's not to discredit New England - they lost a blue chip in Gronk that I don't think anybody else would have been able to replace. Even Atlanta has a top-end corner missing.

Injuries happen in every sport, but they occur in football with such prevalence that it begins to compromise the spirit of the competition, especially in today's league, with everything being tailor-made to offenses, and quarterbacks. It often feels that - and this is a credit to how good the quarterbacks are - you have zero margin for error as a defense because great quarterbacks will find that weak link and you until the cows come home. As a result, when you lose one player (DRC against Green Bay, Earl Thomas for Seattle, Sam Shields for the Pack, Justin Houston for KC, etc. etc.), it's curtains. And if you lose a Derek Carr...time to fold shop.

I don't think the Patriots have had a truly great team, talent-wise, in quite some time (even the '07 team was weak in the secondary). Shows how great Brady and Belichick are that they've done this much winning in that time frame. Also makes me long for a different time when it felt like you had to beat great teams to win a super bowl. I think New England and Atlanta would both get smacked by one of those Seahawks or Niners teams from 2013. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but the product isn't particularly compelling right now - Belichick and Brady converting lacrosse players to receivers running wide open through the defense isn't the type of football I want to see, unless it's my team. Brady is the best ever. Rodgers or Favre before him are way more fun to watch.
 
champs99and04 said:
I actually agree with @JSM1970 on this take. It's not the Patriots' fault. They're great and everybody else isn't.

As a disclaimer, I'm still a slave to the sport. I still watch, I still look forward to the games, and I still get excited when something cool happens.

But the league is bad. I don't think any of these teams are particularly good. This doesn't strike me as a vintage Patriots team and I'm still not convinced Atlanta's defense is any good. There's not a single complete team in the sport and you can't sell me on it being the ultimate team sport when deeply flawed teams are advancing deep into the playoffs. That Packers team yesterday was DOA. They were completely decimated in the secondary, and that's what cheapens all of this so much: it's very rarely the best team that wins so much as it is the healthiest. That's not to discredit New England - they lost a blue chip in Gronk that I don't think anybody else would have been able to replace. Even Atlanta has a top-end corner missing.

Injuries happen in every sport, but they occur in football with such prevalence that it begins to compromise the spirit of the competition, especially in today's league, with everything being tailor-made to offenses, and quarterbacks. It often feels that - and this is a credit to how good the quarterbacks are - you have zero margin for error as a defense because great quarterbacks will find that weak link and you until the cows come home. As a result, when you lose one player (DRC against Green Bay, Earl Thomas for Seattle, Sam Shields for the Pack, Justin Houston for KC, etc. etc.), it's curtains. And if you lose a Derek Carr...time to fold shop.

I don't think the Patriots have had a truly great team, talent-wise, in quite some time (even the '07 team was weak in the secondary). Shows how great Brady and Belichick are that they've done this much winning in that time frame. Also makes me long for a different time when it felt like you had to beat great teams to win a super bowl. I think New England and Atlanta would both get smacked by one of those Seahawks or Niners teams from 2013. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but the product isn't particularly compelling right now - Belichick and Brady converting lacrosse players to receivers running wide open through the defense isn't the type of football I want to see, unless it's my team. Brady is the best ever. Rodgers or Favre before him are way more fun to watch.
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You can blame free agency and salary cap for that. Think of those great Steeler teams of the 70s and then think of what would have happened to them in today's age. The league wanted parity and they got it. And with it comes watered down talent. You make a legit point, but it doesn't take away from what NE has accomplished within these rules and this system.
 
uconngb said:
You know nothing about me, so don't cast me in your sweeping generalizations. I suffered w arrogant Giant fans in the mid 80s while my team went 1-15 every other year. I suffered when all NY fans ran wild w cheating allegations that amounted to nothing in terms of a real football advantage. I suffered when the Giants ruined our perfect season on the luckiest play in the history of sports, and then did it again 4 years later. I suffered w the deflatgate BS in a game the Pats won by 28 points AFTER the "alleged" cheating was discovered. So you bet your ass I'm gonna give NY fans a hard time any time I get a chance. If you are too thin-skinned to deal with it, maybe you should go root for the Browns.

And by the way, I'm sure you would be the FIRST to come on here and crow if it was the Giants, so get off your high horse.
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No I wouldn't I promise never have. I know you well enough this was posted on the basketball board not the PRO SPORTS board or the FOOTBALL board so don't try to play games you looked for and you will get it deservingly. So take it like a man and quit whining like a little girl about "suffering" this was exactly what you asked for it to be.
 
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mauconnfan said:
Hawk sorry sour grapes in a huge way. If Eli meant nothing to his wins then let's call Tom out too that's what I'm saying. His defense obviously kept him in the Giants games because he scored less points.

You're a good poster but this is pitiful! If this were the case then maybe Tom didn't win a couple others either, his defense did :confused:

Go Falcons!;)
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2002 Brady was not instrumental. He was 16/27 for 134 yards. He was named MVP, but that was stupid really, as the defense shut down the greatest show on turf and won the game. Ty Law should have been MVP with his pick 6.
2004 Brady was MVP again and deserved it, going 32/48 for 354 yards and 3 TDs.
2005 Deion Branch was MVP but Brady was 22/33 for 219 yards and a 110 rating. 24-21 game.
2008 against the Giants. 17-14. A defensive game in which neither QB was very efficient. Giants had 5 sacks, someone on Giants D should have been MVP.
2012 it was another defensive game 21-12. Both QBs had good games, more efficient with similar stats. Eli had a QB rating over 100 and probably deserved MVP.
2015 Brady was MVP, went 37/50 for 320 yards against the best D in the league. Deserved it.

Eli is a solid QB. Good enough to win superbowl games with a strong defense. He's not a hall of fame QB in my opinion, and in his era is behind his brother, Brady, Brees, Roethlesburger, Rodgers and even Romo. He's above average for sure, which is plenty good enough.
 
Deepster said:
Just curious. What can Brady do that Rodgers can't? I can't think of a single thing.
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Reads defenses and adjusts the play call better. Makes his read progressions and releases the ball faster.
 
intlzncster said:
If by 'girly' you mean got a lot of girls, then yes, he was girly.
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You think Brady hasn't run through the VS roster a few times over the years when he's married to the den mother? How unimaginative of you.
 
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Scoe said:
The worse thing a coach could ever do when facing belichick is try to play chess against him, that's what the steelers tried to do.
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Tbf what are other teams supposed to do? Belichick is so far ahead of everyone else in the sport where coaching clearly matters the most.
 
Husky25 said:
It's still one of the top two greatest runs in football history. The only other that rivals it is the Packers of the late 50s/60s. Alas, the NFL of today and the NFL of yester-year are not the same game. That and living through it, makes my appreciate the Pats run a little more.
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Always have to weight the modern era over stuff from 50+ years ago regardless of sport. Training and nutrition, salary limitations, free agency, media attention and scrutiny, evolution of any sport in general, better athletes, etc.
 
Rocktheworld said:
Falcons have inarguably the best offense in the league, the game will be in a dome where Ryan has to have an advantage, and Pats really don't have a great secondary themselves. Atlanta's opponents averaged just 25 more ypg passing than did New England's, who enjoyed playing Ryan Tanehill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and whoever threw for Buffalo this year lol as opposed to Drew Brees, Mariota, and Winston. I agree it'll probably be a serious shoot-out and am looking forward to it.
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By the same token the Pats average margin of victory this year was 13 points, so they're frequently just killing clock in the 4th quarter of a lot of games.
 
I get the schadenfreude, but its like rooting against LeBron. Brady is 39 years old & just as effective as he was 6 and 12 years ago. He's not as athletic so can't make the spectacular plays that Aaron Rodgers makes, but those that thought Brady's window was closing 5 years ago have been flat out wrong, whereas it is much tougher for QB's that rely on their athleticism to survive at all (pure athletes can flame out in a couple seasons, veteran scramblers get injured or lose their edge). Also he and the Pats don't care about much other than winning. For fans your team getting to the finals is all you can root for and fulfills most expectations, Pats got there awfully easily this year, petty to poke holes in it.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Reads defenses and adjusts the play call better. Makes his read progressions and releases the ball faster.
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And you're basing that off what exactly? How do you know what Rodgers does in the huddle or at the line?
 
superjohn said:
Of course I know Jeff George has a big arm but because I don't agree with you that he's "the best thrower in the history of the NFL" and "he looked very much like Aaron Rodgers" you go on to tell me I never heard of him or watched him play. After I tell you I watched his entire career you go digging up old articles on him, I just really don't understand your style or the way you often come to conclusions. Do you really expect every NFL fan to consider Jeff George to be "the best thrower in NFL history" and if they don't you assume they have never heard of him and watched him? It's just weird as is your post on Elway but I don't even want to get into that.
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My conclusions are the conclusions of a great many people. And I didn't write only that he had a strong arm, but that he was really accurate, that he could do the things Rodgers can by throwing on the run with power and accuracy. This is what made him the best thrower. The whole point of this though is that, as a QB, the guy was a disaster.
 
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The Steelers have just filed a complaint with Goodell. They are saying Brady kept throwing to places they didn't cover.
 
Deepster said:
Just curious. What can Brady do that Rodgers can't? I can't think of a single thing.
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It's the short game, quick release, swing out passes. AND, most importantly, move around the pocket. Rodgers is good at all these things, but not on Brady's level. There are a lot of things Brady can't do that Rodgers can. He can't scramble, can't throw on the run with precision. In terms of accuracy, I think they are about even.
 
NielsisGood said:
By the same token the Pats average margin of victory this year was 13 points, so they're frequently just killing clock in the 4th quarter of a lot of games.
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Well now you're not correct. Bill doesn't run clock out, Bill hammers people when they're down. Don't go there that's inaccurate.
 
Deepster said:
And you're basing that off what exactly? How do you know what Rodgers does in the huddle or at the line?
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Watching the games. Seeing how often he changes plays (not often) and how he locks on to certain receivers. He's amazing, but I think he will get better, as Elway did.
 
HuskyHawk said:
2002 Brady was not instrumental. He was 16/27 for 134 yards. He was named MVP, but that was stupid really, as the defense shut down the greatest show on turf and won the game. Ty Law should have been MVP with his pick 6.
2004 Brady was MVP again and deserved it, going 32/48 for 354 yards and 3 TDs.
2005 Deion Branch was MVP but Brady was 22/33 for 219 yards and a 110 rating. 24-21 game.
2008 against the Giants. 17-14. A defensive game in which neither QB was very efficient. Giants had 5 sacks, someone on Giants D should have been MVP.
2012 it was another defensive game 21-12. Both QBs had good games, more efficient with similar stats. Eli had a QB rating over 100 and probably deserved MVP.
2015 Brady was MVP, went 37/50 for 320 yards against the best D in the league. Deserved it.

Eli is a solid QB. Good enough to win superbowl games with a strong defense. He's not a hall of fame QB in my opinion, and in his era is behind his brother, Brady, Brees, Roethlesburger, Rodgers and even Romo. He's above average for sure, which is plenty good enough.
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Ben R - career - 64% 46,814 yards 301/160 TD/INT
Eli 60% 48,214 yards 320/215


Again, underrated by those who have lost to him in big games. He's beaten Brady twice and Farve and Rogers at Lambeau in the playoffs. But of course it was the defense he didn't make any big plays at all right? LOL
 
mauconnfan said:
Well now you're not correct. Bill doesn't run clock out, Bill hammers people when they're down. Don't go there that's inaccurate.
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Bill always shortens the game with a lead in the 4th quarter. Always. Passing plays get shorter, nobody runs sideline routes, and if the running game is effective they will run every down.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
Bill always shortens the game with a lead in the 4th quarter. Always. Passing plays get shorter, nobody runs sideline routes, and if the running game is effective they will run every down.
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Shhh...Some people want to look at some games from a decade ago and believe they've been happening every week, every season since then. And no other team in NFL history has run up the score on an opponent, ever.
 
StoweD210 said:
Shhh...Some people want to look at some games from a decade ago and believe they've been happening every week, every season since then. And no other team in NFL history has run up the score on an opponent, ever.
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Excellent so funny too. Hey you guys have seen him rub it in to the Bills, Jets up 21 and still throwing in the 4th Q but I guess I'm whacked huh? Hilarious!
 
Pats are great , Brad's the best and Bill is even better. We good? And I am serious not making fun of the Pats they're great but this thread for 2 weeks seriously?

Move this the OP should've started in one of the other forums anyway.
 
champs99and04 said:
I actually agree with @JSM1970 on this take. It's not the Patriots' fault. They're great and everybody else isn't.
I think New England and Atlanta would both get smacked by one of those Seahawks or Niners teams from 2013. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but the product isn't particularly compelling right now - Belichick and Brady converting lacrosse players to receivers running wide open through the defense isn't the type of football I want to see, unless it's my team. Brady is the best ever. Rodgers or Favre before him are way more fun to watch.
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Didn't New England beat that same Seattle team in 2014? The 2014 Patriots team was actually not even as good as this one and they beat them.

As for flea flickers and plays like that, I always find those exciting no matter if it's my team or not.
 
upstater said:
It's the short game, quick release, swing out passes. AND, most importantly, move around the pocket. Rodgers is good at all these things, but not on Brady's level. There are a lot of things Brady can't do that Rodgers can. He can't scramble, can't throw on the run with precision. In terms of accuracy, I think they are about even.
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HuskyHawk said:
Watching the games. Seeing how often he changes plays (not often) and how he locks on to certain receivers. He's amazing, but I think he will get better, as Elway did.
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I'm not buying a single bit of any of this. Seeing how often each changes the play? Moving around the pocket? This is hogwash. All things equal, opponent, neutral site, talent level on offense, etc? I don't know anything that either does better than the other one. Rodgers maybe has a stronger arm and throws a better deep ball, but when Brady had Moss, that certainly wasn't the case then.
 
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