OT: Patriots

[Jerry1714]

Since the Patriots romp, Kirk Cousins has had 6 out of 7 well above average games (only Carolina was a stinker), which also coincides with his own emerging, hard-to-cover TE in Jordon Reed.

For the year, Cousins will throw for over 4,000 yards (3,990 as we speak). He has completed near 70% of his passes and has a near 100.0 passer rating. Since the Saints game, he has a 121 passer rating and since the game vs. Tampa (the "YOU LIKE THAT!!" game and a stretch that includes the Pats game) his passer rating is 114.

That said, he is 27, in his first full season as a starter, and if he has broken through, there is only a 7 game stretch to support it. In other words it is a tiny sample size during a contract year. However in my opinion, to say that he is not in the top 15 of QB's going forward basically means you don't watch much football beyond your favorite team, and/or are going purely off legacy. Cousins is certainly knocking on the door of the Top 10.

Comical to put him in the top 10. Laugh out loud funny. He has 26 TDs, 12 came in 3 games and they were against some of the worst pass Ds in the league in NO, Philly and Buffalo.

He has played better than expected this year, but he was garbage before this year and nothing special outside of those 3 big games (14 Tds and 11 picks).

The definition in living in the moment is saying Kirk Cousins is a top 10 QB.

I, and anyone who knows football would take the following over Cousins: Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, Cam, Eli, Flacco, Wilson, Palmer, Rivers, Carr, Bortles, Luck, Brees, Dalton, or Ryan. That is 15. I could argue I would rather have Stafford or Winston too.

Obviously you are a Redskins fan, and good for you guys you found maybe some stability at QB, maybe. But lets not be delusional here.

 

[DogMania]

3. Brady does go after refs more than most, but as for being protected, the facts at football outsiders show that Brady, Manning and Roethlisberger get fewer calls per hit than any other QBs. Brady has been hit very hard this year, all year long, and he has one roughing the passer call. There are FO studies that show this has been the case for years. The only other explanation is that players lay off him because they think he's protected so he doesn't get the calls. But then you'd also have to explain why Peyton and Roethlisberger don't get many calls. In Brady and Manning's case, I just think they get rid of the ball so fast that when players hit them they are still engaged with linemen, as opposed to running free when other QBs hold onto the ball too long. This came up first a few years ago when Vick complained about not being protected like other QBs. The reason he isn't protected is the same as with Roethlisberger, they just don't give mobile QBs outside the pocket the same protection. Plus, even the so-called Tom Brady rule is misnamed. The rule was put in after Carson Palmer was hit in the knees.

4. Brees has been doing it for a very long time and consistently. The only one he could be compared to is Roethlisberger. The other guys simply don't have his track record. And as for Palmer, he's been bad for a long while, while Brees hasn't gone through that. Look at Brees' numbers. They are otherwordly. He is going to the Hall of Fame. Brees is top 5 in NFL history in stats.

The ranking was not for just this year, obviously. If it were just for this year, Cam Newton would be #1.

You bring up some good points. I think simply Brady has the best feel of what's going on around him of all the quarterbacks I've seen. As much as he gets hit, he rarely gets hit when in a vulnerable position. And as you pointed out, a lot has to do with how quickly he gets rid of the ball. Rarely does he hold the ball too long. He's willing to throw the ball away and live for another down, or set of downs, while many quarterbacks try to hold on to it too long hoping to still make a play and pay the consequences such as big hits and/or interceptions.

 

[intlzncster]

Comical to put him in the top 10. Laugh out loud funny. He has 26 TDs, 12 came in 3 games and they were against some of the worst pass Ds in the league in NO, Philly and Buffalo.

He has played better than expected this year, but he was garbage before this year and nothing special outside of those 3 big games (14 Tds and 11 picks).

The definition in living in the moment is saying Kirk Cousins is a top 10 QB.

I, and anyone who knows football would take the following over Cousins: Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, Cam, Eli, Flacco, Wilson, Palmer, Rivers, Carr, Bortles, Luck, Brees, Dalton, or Ryan. That is 15. I could argue I would rather have Stafford or Winston too.

Mariotta. I like that kid. Has nothing to work with in TN.

 

[8893]

As for the Redskins, I have to admit that even as late as two weeks ago they would have been the last team I would have picked to win the NFC East, and I still think that they are the worst team in the division. Hats off to them though for finishing strong as the Giants and Eagles crapped the bed (we all knew a Romo-less Dallas wasn't going anywhere). I don't see them getting past their first game no matter who they play, but as we have seen anything can happen when you reach the playoffs.

 

[August_West]

From what I see and hear, I think it's because he's thought of as effeminate.
.

Tuck master Tom I believe is the correct often used moniker.

 

[intlzncster]

As for the Redskins, I have to admit that even as late as two weeks ago they would have been the last team I would have picked to win the NFC East, and I still think that they are the worst team in the division. Hats off to them though for finishing strong as the Giants and Eagles crapped the bed (we all knew a Romo-less Dallas wasn't going anywhere). I don't see them getting past their first game no matter who they play, but as we have seen anything can happen when you reach the playoffs.

That division was confounding this year. Anyone who followed football knew the Colts division would suck. But the NFC East was supposed to be a pretty good one this year. No idea what happened.

 

[intlzncster]

Tuck master Tom I believe is the correct often used moniker.

Does that have to do with footballs or beans and frank?

 

[upstater]

Tuck master Tom I believe is the correct often used moniker.

Never heard that one, but do go on.

Little known tuck rule fact: without the tuck rule, the game against the Raiders doesn't happen. Patriots lost to the Jets that year when tuck rule was invoked late in the game for Vinny Testaverde. Jets drove for winning points on the drive.

 

[August_West]

Never heard that one, but do go on. Little known tuck rule fact: without the tuck rule, the game against the Raiders doesn't happen. Patriots lost to the Jets that year when tuck rule was invoked late in the game for Vinny Testaverde. Jets drove for winning points on the drive.

You ever see silence of the lambs? I think that may be the type of tucking that opposing fans are referring.

 

[upstater]

You ever see silence of the lambs? I think that may be the type of tucking that opposing fans are referring.

I suspected we were talking about your fantasies. Now it's confirmed.

 

[Husky25]

Comical to put him in the top 10. Laugh out loud funny. He has 26 TDs, 12 came in 3 games and they were against some of the worst pass Ds in the league in NO, Philly and Buffalo.

He has played better than expected this year, but he was garbage before this year and nothing special outside of those 3 big games (14 Tds and 11 picks).

The definition in living in the moment is saying Kirk Cousins is a top 10 QB.

I, and anyone who knows football would take the following over Cousins: Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, Cam, Eli, Flacco, Wilson, Palmer, Rivers, Carr, Bortles, Luck, Brees, Dalton, or Ryan. That is 15. I could argue I would rather have Stafford or Winston too.

Obviously you are a Redskins fan, and good for you guys you found maybe some stability at QB, maybe. But lets not be delusional here.

I freely admitted it is a small sample size and I never said he was in the top ten. I said knocking on the door. What I find is laughable is that someone "who know(s) football" cannot give credit where credit is due. First of all, you don't get to choose your opponent on a weekly basis. All but two games are set years in advance and if you were trying to make this point FOR any other QB, you'd say good for them for performing well vs. the teams they're supposed to. Cousins is trending well. He has performed above average to very well in 6 of his last 7 games. By the way, Chicago has the #4 pass defense in the NFL. Cousins threw for 300 yards, a TD, and had a 104 passer rating. Dallas is #5. Cousins had a 101 passer rating. We'll see how they do on Sunday.

Secondly, Cousins was primarily a backup his first 3 years. the Redskins bent over backwards to hand the reigns to Robert Griffin III and rightfully so. They gave up a 2nd rounder and 2 additional 1st rounders to get him. He HAD to be the franchise savior. He isn't, but I don't think it's very fair to evaluate a back up QB when they don't know their role from one week to the next and are not getting starter reps in practice. That'd be like declaring Aaron Rodgers (any who knows football would know there is a "D" in his name.) a failure at the end of the 2007 season.

Finally, Some of the names on that list seems like you are just pick names for the sake of getting to 15. On a go forward basis, I'd take Cousins' potential over Ryan (though it's close), Dalton (Career year, but the stinker vs. Houston on national TV gives me a lot of pause. Now he is hurt)., Flacco (career 84.7 Passer rating), and Rivers (picture of mediocrity since he last handed off to LaDanian.). Carr and Bortles are in the same conversation but neither are clearly ahead of Cousins by any discernible measure. Ergo, knocking on the door.

 

[Jerry1714]

I freely admitted it is a small sample size and I never said he was in the top ten. I said knocking on the door. What I find is laughable is that someone "who know(s) football" cannot give credit where credit is due. First of all, you don't get to choose your opponent on a weekly basis. All but two games are set years in advance and if you were trying to make this point FOR any other QB, you'd say good for them for performing well vs. the teams they're supposed to. Cousins is trending well. He has performed above average to very well in 6 of his last 7 games. By the way, Chicago has the #4 pass defense in the NFL. Cousins threw for 300 yards, a TD, and had a 104 passer rating. Dallas is #5. Cousins had a 101 passer rating. We'll see how they do on Sunday.

Secondly, Cousins was primarily a backup his first 3 years. the Redskins bent over backwards to hand the reigns to Robert Griffin III and rightfully so. They gave up a 2nd rounder and 2 additional 1st rounders to get him. He HAD to be the franchise savior. He isn't, but I don't think it's very fair to evaluate a back up QB when they don't know their role from one week to the next and are not getting starter reps in practice. That'd be like declaring Aaron Rodgers (any who knows football would know there is a "D" in his name.) a failure at the end of the 2007 season.

Finally, Some of the names on that list seems like you are just pick names for the sake of getting to 15. On a go forward basis, I'd take Cousins' potential over Ryan (though it's close), Dalton (Career year, but the stinker vs. Houston on national TV gives me a lot of pause. Now he is hurt)., Flacco (career 84.7 Passer rating), and Rivers (picture of mediocrity since he last handed off to LaDanian.). Carr and Bortles are in the same conversation but neither are clearly ahead of Cousins by any discernible measure. Ergo, knocking on the door.

Stop using passer rating its a bad and meaningless stat. Tyrod Taylor has a +100 passer rating, higher than Cam, Ben, Eli, Rogers, ect. Its a bad way to view QBs.

You realize Rivers numbers are as good if not better than Cousins this year despite all his WRs and OL being hurt? My guess is you did not.

I am not a Ryan fan but hes proved to be able to sustain success in this league, Cousins has not.

Carr is a pro bowl alternate this year and has been much better than Cousins and he is 24. Not sure there is 1 GM in the league who even entertain an idea of a Cousins for Carr or Cousins for Bortles trade.

Not 1 of the 15 QBs I listed would I trade for Cousins and I do not think any non-Redskin would either.

 

[intlzncster]

To completely veer off topic: Since I brought up Jerry Jones in this thread as an incompetence owner, thought I'd offer up the latest example. Just when I thought he couldn't possibly be any dumber, he goes and does something like this... and totally redeem himself! Would you want this guy in charge of your health?

Tony Romo is entertaining a few options for helping to heal his broken collarbone, including having a metal plate surgically attached to prevent future issues, according to a report by Jon Machota of the Dallas Morning News. The Dallas Cowboys quarterback has fractured his left collarbone three times since 2010, so he is familiar with the healing process. "We have a few ideas of what we can do with the collarbone," Romo said as a guest of Norm Hitzges on 1310 The Ticket. "There are a few plans." One of the plans Romo discussed was the insertion of the small plate, which he claimed "should ensure that that [break] doesn't happen, or the percentage of that goes way, way down." Although Romo seems willing to undergo the surgery as a preventative measure, owner/GM Jerry Jones didn't seem too pleased with the idea of his franchise QB going under the knife. "Unless something occurs that hasn't occurred, he will not have a plate," Jones said on 105.3 The Fan. "He will heal naturally. It's the way to go." With a promising season already lost to injury, it will be interesting to see what measures Romo ultimately decides to undergo to prevent missing more time in the future, and how much of an influence Jones will have on those decisions.​

Giants, Jets, and Pats fans can completely agree on one thing.....being very, very thankful that our respective owners are NOT Jerry Jones.

 

[Husky25]

Stop using passer rating its a bad and meaningless stat. Tyrod Taylor has a +100 passer rating, higher than Cam, Ben, Eli, Rogers, ect. Its a bad way to view QBs.

You realize Rivers numbers are as good if not better than Cousins this year despite all his WRs and OL being hurt? My guess is you did not.

I am not a Ryan fan but hes proved to be able to sustain success in this league, Cousins has not.

Carr is a pro bowl alternate this year and has been much better than Cousins and he is 24. Not sure there is 1 GM in the league who even entertain an idea of a Cousins for Carr or Cousins for Bortles trade.

Not 1 of the 15 QBs I listed would I trade for Cousins and I do not think any non-Redskin would either.

All things being equal, Passer rating tells quite a bit. Tyrod Taylor has 2,850 yards passing, 20 TDs and has been sacked 34 times. All things are not equal with regard to Tyrod Taylor.

Injuries are a part of the game. Deal with it and move on. Before this year, the Chargers are basically a .500 team. This year they are 4-11. The Chargers haven't scared anyone since #21 was in the backfield. Rivers doesn't change that. The elite/top 10 are difference makers.

How fair is it to judge the longevity of an 8 year vet vs. a first year starter who has not had the opportunity to sustain success? Shouldn't Cousins be afforded the same timeframe before being cast down with the Brandon Weedens and Jimmy Clausens of the league?

I like Derek Carr, but he is not discernibly better than Cousins. It's a coin flip at best. The only stat Carr leads Cousins in this year is TD passes. Cousins has a better completion%, more yards, better yds/att, less INTs, better QBR (which is supposed to measure the effect of the QB on the game as a whole), and, oh yeah, a better passer rating. If you want to talk about something that doesn't matter, let talk about the Pro Bowl.

I'm not sure of team you are a fan, Jerry, but it appears I'm not going to convince you on the positive attributes of one, Kirk Cousins. You are certainly not going to dissuade me, so let's just call it a draw and leave it at this: There are a handful of truly elite QBs in the NFL and none of Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Kirk Cousins, or Andy Dalton are among them.

 

[intlzncster]

Injuries are a part of the game. Deal with it and move on. Before this year, the Chargers are basically a .500 team. This year they are 4-11. The Chargers haven't scared anyone since #21 was in the backfield. Rivers doesn't change that. The elite/top 10 are difference makers.

I'm definitely not stepping into this argument other than to point out that injuries should definitely be taken into account if you are trying to compare QBs relative performance. So should relative personnel in general. I mean, the QB has to have somebody to throw to, or a line to block for him. It just doesn't work if not.

I agree in the general football related context, in terms of wins and losses and team success, that injuries are part of the game. And you have to be able to deal with and handle those things and move on. That's part of roster building. But if you are trying to compare two teams QBs, the available personnel have to be factored in, even if it's very hard to measure in a meaningful way.

 

[Jerry1714]

All things being equal, Passer rating tells quite a bit. Tyrod Taylor has 2,850 yards passing, 20 TDs and has been sacked 34 times. All things are not equal with regard to Tyrod Taylor.

Injuries are a part of the game. Deal with it and move on. Before this year, the Chargers are basically a .500 team. This year they are 4-11. The Chargers haven't scared anyone since #21 was in the backfield. Rivers doesn't change that. The elite/top 10 are difference makers.

How fair is it to judge the longevity of an 8 year vet vs. a first year starter who has not had the opportunity to sustain success? Shouldn't Cousins be afforded the same timeframe before being cast down with the Brandon Weedens and Jimmy Clausens of the league?

I like Derek Carr, but he is not discernibly better than Cousins. It's a coin flip at best. The only stat Carr leads Cousins in this year is TD passes. Cousins has a better completion%, more yards, better yds/att, less INTs, better QBR (which is supposed to measure the effect of the QB on the game as a whole), and, oh yeah, a better passer rating. If you want to talk about something that doesn't matter, let talk about the Pro Bowl.

I'm not sure of team you are a fan, Jerry, but it appears I'm not going to convince you on the positive attributes of one, Kirk Cousins. You are certainly not going to dissuade me, so let's just call it a draw and leave it at this: There are a handful of truly elite QBs in the NFL and none of Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Kirk Cousins, or Andy Dalton are among them.

I agree, you are a homer so there is no point in arguing with you about Kirk Cousins. You see a player no one else does. Oh and Rivers has won a playoff game since LT left FYI.

But to help you out in the future, there is no "stat" to be considered a bigger joke than QBR. Unless of course you believe Teddy Birdgewater and Alex Smith, among a number of other laughable additions, are having a better year than Tom Brady, Eli Manning, or Cam Newton.

Or that Charlie Batch’s 186-yard, two-pick game is the greatest game in NFL history.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...6-yard-two-pick-game-has-espns-best-qbr-ever/

 

[Husky25]

Rivers won a playoff game? Well I guess that settles it. Oh wait. So did Tim Tebow.

Should I feel insulted by being called a homer? Don't drop the mic just yet, because I don't.

I will never be ashamed of the teams of which I am a fan, so long as my opinions are supported by facts, which they are.

 

[willie99]

The fact you have Kirk Cousins and Andy Dalton anywhere near a list of A players tells me you know less about football then I do about women's basketball

0-4
1 TD
6 picks
55 QBR

damn, I sure do hope Andy's back for the playoffs, he's awesome

 

[Jerry1714]

0-4
1 TD
6 picks
55 QBR

damn, I sure do hope Andy's back for the playoffs, he's awesome

So you agree with me, good, you are seeing the light finally.

 

[boba]

I see that Sayre's law needs a corollary to include discusions about sports.

 

[mauconnfan]

I see that Sayre's law needs a corollary to include discusions about sports.

"That is why sports politics are so bitter"

 

[intlzncster]

"That is why sports politics are so bitter"

I see that Sayre's law needs a corollary to include discusions about sports.

Sports teams are the most important thing in the universe. It is known. Day 1 stuff really. All about the jerseys.

 

[Taco]

I just stated a fact. I didn't say the two are exactly the same. From such points, you either become a Bulger or enter into the star realm. But he's definitely not there yet. You give him too much credit. He could easily become an Eli. Great start, great wins, Super Bowl, but then isn't consistent enough to get to the superstar level. Going on a great stretch of football is just not enough. It's gotta be sustained like Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers have sustained it. What is truly bizarre from the haters on this thread is that I gave a ranking of QBs and you have people saying it is a horrible ranking, yet no one offers their own. We have people admitting that they don't watch much football and then also making fun of the list. If you got your own list, go ahead and give it.

 

[Taco]

I just stated a fact. I didn't say the two are exactly the same. From such points, you either become a Bulger or enter into the star realm. But he's definitely not there yet. You give him too much credit. He could easily become an Eli. Great start, great wins, Super Bowl, but then isn't consistent enough to get to the superstar level. Going on a great stretch of football is just not enough. It's gotta be sustained like Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers have sustained it. What is truly bizarre from the haters on this thread is that I gave a ranking of QBs and you have people saying it is a horrible ranking, yet no one offers their own. We have people admitting that they don't watch much football and then also making fun of the list. If you got your own list, go ahead and give it.

 

[Taco]

I just stated a fact. I didn't say the two are exactly the same. From such points, you either become a Bulger or enter into the star realm. But he's definitely not there yet. You give him too much credit. He could easily become an Eli. Great start, great wins, Super Bowl, but then isn't consistent enough to get to the superstar level. Going on a great stretch of football is just not enough. It's gotta be sustained like Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers have sustained it. What is truly bizarre from the haters on this thread is that I gave a ranking of QBs and you have people saying it is a horrible ranking, yet no one offers their own. We have people admitting that they don't watch much football and then also making fun of the list. If you got your own list, go ahead and give it.