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OT: Patriots

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I guess I should give the names and addresses of Giants fans to you.

It was a joke.

Star QB? Uh, Ok.
Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but was genuinely curious what your reasoning was for not listing him, more as a gauge of just how biased you are than anything else.
 
It was a joke.


Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but was genuinely curious what your reasoning was for not listing him, more as a gauge of just how biased you are more than anything.

A lot of animosity from Pats fans on Eli and there's no denying that one. It's everywhere - "he sucks" "he's lucky" "look at all the int's" (which is true but not knowing why for the most part). This is not anything new.
 
So some guy who writes for 'thesportster', named, I kid you not, Gonzo Green compiles his own most hated list....and that is supposed to mean something? C'moooon man.

And I'd be absolutely unsurprised that Tom would be on a most hated list too. Great players are the most polarizing: idolized for winning, and hated because of jealousy and being beaten all the time. That's what happens when your the best.

But the rest of the country loves Brady:

I just picked one of the lists of hated that Brady was on, there is many more. You said he was universally loved but now you're making exuses why he isn't. Which is it?
 
People who don't think Eli is good are idiots. He may not be Top 5, but he's good. And frankly, I wouldn't take his brother over him in the Playoffs.

And that's not anything I even said. I never wrote he's average or even bad.
 
Does it get any better than the Jets winning?

the Jets won one of their two Super Bowls they play every year, awesomeness baby :)



in all seriousness, nice win for gang green, their season was riding on that game

and if they couldn't beat the Pats in that game at that time under those circumstances, when would they beat the Pats?

I didn't like the game going in, the stars were aligned in the wrong formation, and then they give the Jets the ball AND the wind in OT

WTF? a classic
 
Eli and Peyton?

Damn I was going to stay away, darn it;)

The whole conversation isn't even about who is a good QB. We were discussing why (other than winning) someone would be hated. I said I can't think of star QBs other than Brady and Rodgers who haven't screwed up at some point outside the football field. Who are the star QBs? Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Roehtlisberger. When Newton wins MVP, maybe he'll deserve it. Carson Palmer may be in that category but he has so many inconsistent seasons, it's hard to place him there. Eli Manning is in the good category with Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco.

That's how I'd rate them anyway.

Stars:

1. Brady
2. Peyton
3. Rodgers
4. Brees

Almost Stars:

5. Newton
6. Palmer

Good:

7A. Flacco
7B. Eli
9. Russell Wilson
 
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The whole conversation isn't even about who is a good QB. We were discussing why (other than winning) someone would be hated. I said I can't think of star QBs other than Brady and Rodgers who haven't screwed up at some point outside the football field. Who are the star QBs? Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Roehtlisberger. When Newton wins MVP, maybe he'll deserve it. Carson Palmer may be in that category but he has so many inconsistent seasons, it's hard to place him there. Eli Manning is in the good category with Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco.

That's how I'd rate them anyway.

Stars:

1. Brady
2. Peyton
3. Rodgers
4. Brees

Almost Stars:

5. Newton
6. Palmer

Good:

7A. Flacco
7B. Eli
9. Russell Wilson
How do you define "star" because under any definition this list makes no sense.

Palmer has 0 career playoff wins and Cam has 1, but they are ahead of 4 guys with at least 1 ring?
 
How do you define "star" because under any definition this list makes no sense.

Palmer has 0 career playoff wins and Cam has 1, but they are ahead of 4 guys with at least 1 ring?

MVP level play, but I actually didnt include them as stars

I also had Ben R. included in my paragraph above but then forgot to add him into the list at about #5
 
I just picked one of the lists of hated that Brady was on, there is many more. You said he was universally loved but now you're making exuses why he isn't. Which is it?


It's both. Like a lot of people on the top of these lists. Jeter was the same. Goes with the territory.

And I never said 'universally', just that he was a very popular player. And he is. Just as he is also hated by another contingent for winning too damn much.
 
MVP level play, but I actually didnt include them as stars

I also had Ben R. included in my paragraph above but then forgot to add him into the list at about #5
MVP level play when? Over what time period?
 
MVP level play, but I actually didnt include them as stars

I also had Ben R. included in my paragraph above but then forgot to add him into the list at about #5

Russell Wilson has been playing out of his mind the second half of the season (with the odd blip here or there). He's higher imo. He really doesn't have a ton to work with out there.
 
"Eli Manning is in the good category with Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco."

Says upstater and that's basically the Word of the Yard. :rolleyes:

By the way Wilson is better than anyone the last few weeks, everyone!
 
.-.
"Eli Manning is in the good category with Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco."

Says upstater and that's basically the Word of the Yard. :rolleyes:

By the way Wilson is better than anyone the last few weeks, everyone!

I also remember the 3 weeks when Marc Bulger was the best QB in football back in 2003.
 
In sports being hated is a good thing. I'd be willing to bet, that when he was coaching ,Calhoun would not have done well in a national poll.

True, but I am not the one that said that Brady was loved all over the country.
 
Funny listening to Patriots fans in Giants territory. The New York market is far more important to the UConn brand than the Boston market. Boston news and television sports reporting rarely ever mentions or discusses the Huskies.
 
Funny listening to Patriots fans in Giants territory. The New York market is far more important to the UConn brand than the Boston market. Boston news and television sports reporting rarely ever mentions or discusses the Huskies.
Nor does the NY news. Both NY and Boston are pro markets. Neither do well with college sports. Boston may be a big college town but it isn't a college sports town.
 
Nor does the NY news. Both NY and Boston are pro markets. Neither do well with college sports. Boston may be a big college town but it isn't a college sports town.
They do cover UConn bball in NYC.
 
.-.
How do you define "star" because under any definition this list makes no sense.

Palmer has 0 career playoff wins and Cam has 1, but they are ahead of 4 guys with at least 1 ring?

would you really take Flacco over Cam or Wilson?
 
Modern day "A" list, in no particular order

Brady
Cam
Ben
Palmer
Rogers
Brees

"A-", but playing very well in recent weeks which is why I even mention them

Wilson
Cousins (go ahead, go boneyard on me, but he's been great for a few weeks now, look it up)
Dalton
 
Did you know?

Peyton still leads the league in interceptions :cool:
 
Man, Wilson not feeling the love here. You guys are nuts. He's probably the second best 'young QB', behind Cam. And Wilson has proved it in crunch time, on the biggest stages, which is a huge huge tick in the plus column for him.
 
And Wilson has proved it in crunch time, on the biggest stages, which is a huge huge tick in the plus column for him.

What other QB has done that and gets no respect from Pats fans? Hmmmmmmm.
 
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What other QB has done that and gets no respect from Pats fans? Hmmmmmmm.

Who Eli? He gets plenty of respect from Pats fans. I think as whole, they probably respect him more than Peyton!

We think he's a mouth breather of course, but when you look like this, how could you not? The Manning face is genetic.

hqdefault.jpg
 
Couple of ancillary observations/opinions:

1. I hate the Patriots, but if your reason for disliking them is that they have a lot of bandwagon fans, then I don't think that's a very good reason. This type of thing happens literally every time a team begins to win a lot. Living in the Boston area like a lot of us do, you're immersed in it, so it seems worse...but it's really not. The Patriots were a big deal to a lot of people - myself included - before Brady and they will be a big deal afterwards. The people who leave games in the fourth quarter and boo the team at halftime of a tie game are s***y fans in my opinion, but there are a lot of good ones, too.

2. The spygate/deflategate stuff is pretty tough to have an educated fair/opinion on, no matter who you are. Seems to me a lot of conflicting stories/evidence. They got punished very hard for the deflategate thing, so I've pretty much dropped that. With spygate...who the hell knows.

3. Belichick is probably the greatest coach of all-time and Brady might be the best quarterback of all-time. I have no idea what type of person either of them is off the field, but with Belichick, even Patriots fans have to admit the guy is kind of a d*** a lot of the time. I don't like when guys like Popovich get lumped in with Belichick...the better comparison would be somebody like Saban where you wonder if they have the ability to feel joy. Personally, I don't dislike him for it, but I can understand how others do.

Brady...nothing but class off the field, but his on-field demeanor is sort of bratty. And, no fault of his own, but he and Peyton are emblematic of an era of football that's frustrating for defense-first guys like me. They're protected to the extent that you wonder if they're real football players.

Rooting against the Patriots is really fun. They are the perfect villains. Some of that is self-inflicted, a lot of it is a product of circumstance. Wherever you fall, I don't think everything always has to be perfectly pure or perfectly evil. The perception is that the Patriots are cheaters. And, while it's hard to have an objective opinion as a self-described Patriots hater, I like to think they bare responsibility for some of that perception. I feel the same way about UConn. A lot of it, though, is our insistence on portraying everything in black and white when it hardly ever is. Sometimes it's OK to just admit you don't know...and with the Patriots, I don't. Will that stop me from needling the Patriots fans I know in real life? No, but that's what fans do.

4. What I do (think) know is that Russell Wilson is really, really good. He reminds me a lot of what Brady was on those first couple Patriots Super Bowl teams. It's still fair to wonder if he can carry a mediocre defense like Brady/Peyton did for so many years, but I think the guy is unfairly discounted just because of his defense. Also, I question how anybody could define Drew Brees as an elite quarterback but not Wilson/Roethlisberger/Newton/Palmer.

Hopefully some of that makes sense.
 
Couple of ancillary observations/opinions:

1. I hate the Patriots, but if your reason for disliking them is that they have a lot of bandwagon fans, then I don't think that's a very good reason. This type of thing happens literally every time a team begins to win a lot. Living in the Boston area like a lot of us do, you're immersed in it, so it seems worse...but it's really not. The Patriots were a big deal to a lot of people - myself included - before Brady and they will be a big deal afterwards. The people who leave games in the fourth quarter and boo the team at halftime of a tie game are s***y fans in my opinion, but there are a lot of good ones, too.

2. The spygate/deflategate stuff is pretty tough to have an educated fair/opinion on, no matter who you are. Seems to me a lot of conflicting stories/evidence. They got punished very hard for the deflategate thing, so I've pretty much dropped that. With spygate...who the hell knows.

3. Belichick is probably the greatest coach of all-time and Brady might be the best quarterback of all-time. I have no idea what type of person either of them is off the field, but with Belichick, even Patriots fans have to admit the guy is kind of a d*** a lot of the time. I don't like when guys like Popovich get lumped in with Belichick...the better comparison would be somebody like Saban where you wonder if they have the ability to feel joy. Personally, I don't dislike him for it, but I can understand how others do.

Brady...nothing but class off the field, but his on-field demeanor is sort of bratty. And, no fault of his own, but he and Peyton are emblematic of an era of football that's frustrating for defense-first guys like me. They're protected to the extent that you wonder if they're real football players.

Rooting against the Patriots is really fun. They are the perfect villains. Some of that is self-inflicted, a lot of it is a product of circumstance. Wherever you fall, I don't think everything always has to be perfectly pure or perfectly evil. The perception is that the Patriots are cheaters. And, while it's hard to have an objective opinion as a self-described Patriots hater, I like to think they bare responsibility for some of that perception. I feel the same way about UConn. A lot of it, though, is our insistence on portraying everything in black and white when it hardly ever is. Sometimes it's OK to just admit you don't know...and with the Patriots, I don't. Will that stop me from needling the Patriots fans I know in real life? No, but that's what fans do.

4. What I do (think) know is that Russell Wilson is really, really good. He reminds me a lot of what Brady was on those first couple Patriots Super Bowl teams. It's still fair to wonder if he can carry a mediocre defense like Brady/Peyton did for so many years, but I think the guy is unfairly discounted just because of his defense. Also, I question how anybody could define Drew Brees as an elite quarterback but not Wilson/Roethlisberger/Newton/Palmer.

Hopefully some of that makes sense.


Makes good sense for sure - well stated for the most part. #1 is in question due to the fact you probably have not lived it personally over the last few years where people who you played golf with, worked with, socialized with went from hardly discussing their team to liking their team to delusional about their teams overnight. To the point of everything was the best and no one was as good, not a player not a team. So while you can't dislike a team for their bandwagon fans you can for the way they suddenly react right before your eyes.

I agree especially on the Brady "bratty" thought. No doubt he's changed also over the years. From the 6th round draft choice (or whatever) to expecting to get every call and whining about it. Having said that, the best QB we've seen since Montana and Marino left the field no doubt.
 
I also remember the 3 weeks when Marc Bulger was the best QB in football back in 2003.

Now we know you know nothing outside of your little Patriot hole. The Bulger/Wilson comparison is hilarious up, geezus you're whacked when this stuff comes up.:rolleyes:
 
Now we know you know nothing outside of your little Patriot hole. The Bulger/Wilson comparison is hilarious up, geezus you're whacked when this stuff comes up.:rolleyes:

I just stated a fact. I didn't say the two are exactly the same. From such points, you either become a Bulger or enter into the star realm. But he's definitely not there yet. You give him too much credit. He could easily become an Eli. Great start, great wins, Super Bowl, but then isn't consistent enough to get to the superstar level.

Going on a great stretch of football is just not enough. It's gotta be sustained like Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers have sustained it.

What is truly bizarre from the haters on this thread is that I gave a ranking of QBs and you have people saying it is a horrible ranking, yet no one offers their own. We have people admitting that they don't watch much football and then also making fun of the list. If you got your own list, go ahead and give it.
 
I just stated a fact. I didn't say the two are exactly the same. From such points, you either become a Bulger or enter into the star realm. But he's definitely not there yet. You give him too much credit. He could easily become an Eli. Great start, great wins, Super Bowl, but then isn't consistent enough to get to the superstar level.

Going on a great stretch of football is just not enough. It's gotta be sustained like Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers have sustained it.

What is truly bizarre from the haters on this thread is that I gave a ranking of QBs and you have people saying it is a horrible ranking, yet no one offers their own. We have people admitting that they don't watch much football and then also making fun of the list. If you got your own list, go ahead and give it.

Don't care to be honest everyone has their thoughts. Your guy is the best no doubt then there's a bunch of others. I like mine so I'm good!
 
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