OT: NFL Draft

[huskymedic]

 

[JSM1970]

How can you say that yet?

Dak was a 4th. I think Dak is a total joke and when they start to introduce more complicated schemes and plays he'll be a bust.

For the 10th year in a row Jerry Reese has thrown away his 3rd round pick. Davis fn Webb

 

[intlzncster]

I agree with it. Take it while you can but if this sort of thing is the new norm, it's going to be a rude awakening when they step away and the cupboard is totally bare.

This is an F it I'm all in draft because the long term impact of what they received will be very low. BB knows he and Brady have only a couple years before they both go out and he's rightfully not worrying about what happens after that.

Don't agree with you here. They are one of the youngest teams in the league. So the future is well stocked in that respect. They've got a number of core guys locked up. Came out smelling like roses from ditching Collins and Jones. I personally feel they f---d up the Butler thing (coulda signed him last year), but that's not even what we are talking about.

The top two guys they got this year are perfect Patriots. They could both be studs. Not saying they will, but the potential is there. They dropped because of the school they played at, that simple. All the other guys are in control for multiple years. Plenty of time to draft replacement players next season.

Not only that, but they've got a ton of UDFAs this year. And the Patriots are one of the top few teams in the league with these guys (iirc Patriots, Seattle, Baltimore, maybe Broncos). So that will make up for some lack of picks.

And I also don't think BB will retire with Brady. The way he's drafted QBs shows he's thinking about the future. In fact, unless Jacoby blows up, I think Bill's going to try to lock up Jimmy G long term. Allow Brady to play a couple as a reduced rate, and go from there. No idea if it will work, but I can see this happening.

Bottom line: this reminds me far more of 2007, than it does of going for broke.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[upstater]

This is an F it I'm all in draft because the long term impact of what they received will be very low. BB knows he and Brady have only a couple years before they both go out and he's rightfully not worrying about what happens after that.

Why do you think the impact is very low? Cooks is younger than some of the guys getting drafted yesterday.

 

[upstater]

And I also don't think BB will retire with Brady. The way he's drafted QBs shows he's thinking about the future. In fact, unless Jacoby blows up, I think Bill's going to try to lock up Jimmy G long term. Allow Brady to play a couple as a reduced rate, and go from there. No idea if it will work, but I can see this happening.

Bottom line: this reminds me far more of 2007, than it does of going for broke.

I can't even imagine how they will keep JG without letting Brady go.

His contract is up next offseason. So then you have to franchise Jimmy G for $24m.

How is that going to work?

I don't think it can be done.

One of them has to go.

 

[mauconnfan]

Jet fans, giant fans pondering there picks, there coaches, (maybe only the jets) , the owners. Lots of holes to fill. All I can say is that it's great to be a Patriot fan. See ya in the fall boneyarders.

What are Giants fans pondering about 'yell? I know they supposedly need help but guessing the plan is in place. They just added a hybrid TE that will live in luxury between the WR's they have are you kidding me. Defense will be solid as it was last year they got a guy who can replace Hankins - not sure how we got thrown in with the Jets here but hey, you're all giddy again I guess.

Treading about the QB I like it. He's got a couple three years and what better way to get the next one than to bring him along yourselves. Brady was nobody too right? And if you think you're going to replace Eli with someone elses throw away then you are stupid. From everything I am reading this was a very good pick, all the tools and huge study of the game.

 

[intlzncster]

I can't even imagine how they will keep JG without letting Brady go.
His contract is up next offseason. So then you have to franchise Jimmy G for $24m.
How is that going to work?
I don't think it can be done.
One of them has to go.

I don't think it's that out of the question. The idea would be to not franchise JG if you could, by guaranteeing him like only 2 years more of Brady, and trying to work a cap and player friendly long term contract.

Basically tell Tom, "listen we'll give you a couple more years, but you gotta restructure at a super cut rate because we need to prepare for the future. If you don't, we have to move on". I'm not sure of the rules on this, but if you could cut Brady after the season, you'd save 8m on the cap [in 2018 and 15m in 2019], and then resign at a vet min. BB is not going to just sacrifice everything because it's Tom. Everyone's got a shelf life. And if Tom wants to play he'd have to agree. Tom isn't playing for money at all right now. He and his wife have more money than god. He's also a team first guy.

I'm not saying that would happen, just kicking around scenarios. And look I wouldn't put it past Bill to take a 20m franchise tag on a backup. Guy zigs when everyone else zags. You might have to take a year of tough cap hits, but that's more than worth it for a long term franchise QB.

 

[donyell34]

Seems like the giants made out ok Mau. Jets also. ahh! Just having a little fun. Much more concerned over our husky's.

 

[intlzncster]

Treading about the QB I like it. He's got a couple three years and what better way to get the next one than to bring him along yourselves. Brady was nobody too right? And if you think you're going to replace Eli with someone elses throw away then you are stupid. From everything I am reading this was a very good pick, all the tools and huge study of the game.

Teams should draft QBs damn near every other year. Even with a HOF under center. It's just good business. Since Brady took over, the Pats have drafted 7 QBs.

Jimmy Garoppolo - 2nd
Ryan Mallett - 3rd
Kevin O'Connell- 3rd
Rohan Davey - 4th
Kliff Kingsbury - 6th
Matt Cassel - 7th
Zac Robinson - 8th​

Next year, I'm guessing they draft another as well. Strong QB class next year.

 

[upstater]

I don't think it's that out of the question. The idea would be to not franchise JG if you could, by guaranteeing him like only 2 years more of Brady, and trying to work a cap and player friendly long term contract.

Basically tell Tom, "listen we'll give you a couple more years, but you gotta restructure at a super cut rate because we need to prepare for the future. If you don't, we have to move on". I'm not sure of the rules on this, but if you could cut Brady after the season, you'd save 8m on the cap [in 2018 and 15m in 2019], and then resign at a vet min. BB is not going to just sacrifice everything because it's Tom. Everyone's got a shelf life. And if Tom wants to play he'd have to agree. Tom isn't playing for money at all right now. He and his wife have more money than god. He's also a team first guy.

I'm not saying that would happen, just kicking around scenarios. And look I wouldn't put it past Bill to take a 20m franchise tag on a backup. Guy zigs when everyone else zags. You might have to take a year of tough cap hits, but that's more than worth it for a long term franchise QB.

Mediocre QBs these days, like Tyrod Taylor and Brock Osweiler, are making $15m+.

JG might say, you need to pay me $18m or $19m at least. I still don't see how they can do this. Brady is already paid peanuts.

 

[NielsisGood]

I don't think it's that out of the question. The idea would be to not franchise JG if you could, by guaranteeing him like only 2 years more of Brady, and trying to work a cap and player friendly long term contract.

Basically tell Tom, "listen we'll give you a couple more years, but you gotta restructure at a super cut rate because we need to prepare for the future. If you don't, we have to move on". I'm not sure of the rules on this, but if you could cut Brady after the season, you'd save 8m on the cap [in 2018 and 15m in 2019], and then resign at a vet min. BB is not going to just sacrifice everything because it's Tom. Everyone's got a shelf life. And if Tom wants to play he'd have to agree. Tom isn't playing for money at all right now. He and his wife have more money than god. He's also a team first guy.

I'm not saying that would happen, just kicking around scenarios. And look I wouldn't put it past Bill to take a 20m franchise tag on a backup. Guy zigs when everyone else zags. You might have to take a year of tough cap hits, but that's more than worth it for a long term franchise QB.

Belichick also isn't going to force Brady out until he sees noticeable signs of decline, regardless of how convenient it is for long term planning. Brady has more of less carried the team in their last 2 SBs.


It's also extremely doubtful that he tags JG just to back up, and 0% chance he tries pulling what you suggested by making Brady play for the vet minimum. That would be a complete mess for clubhouse culture and likely ruin any chance they would have at signing players to team friendly contracts if they try doing that to their franchise icon. It'd be like if Calhoun benched AJ Price in 09 because we had Kemba.

 

[intlzncster]

Belichick also isn't going to force Brady out until he sees noticeable signs of decline, regardless of how convenient it is for long term planning. Brady has more of less carried the team in their last 2 SBs.

I totally agree he won't force Brady out if he's still playing at an optimum level. But if there's a little slippage, I think he'll pounce. The quarterback position is too important to do otherwise. BB is a computer when it comes to this stuff. Sentimentality and emotion are a detriment to winning in the NFL. Every time.

It's also extremely doubtful that he tags JG just to back up, and 0% chance he tries pulling what you suggested by making Brady play for the vet minimum. That would be a complete mess for clubhouse culture and likely ruin any chance they would have at signing players to team friendly contracts if they try doing that to their franchise icon. It'd be like if Calhoun benched AJ Price in 09 because we had Kemba.

I made that sound a lot more contentious than it was meant to be. I just think Brady is such a team player, he'd be more than happy to work out a situation that benefited the team long term, even if he sacrificed money. I truly believe he doesn't give a rats arse about money at this point.

Everyone on the Pats knows they're on borrowed time, even if they play great. Heck, half the time it's because they play great. 'Football is a business' is accepted practice when you come to the Pats. 'It is known'. So to speak.

And people always say, BB would never do this....and he goes and does it.

 

[intlzncster]

Mediocre QBs these days, like Tyrod Taylor and Brock Osweiler, are making $15m+.

JG might say, you need to pay me $18m or $19m at least. I still don't see how they can do this. Brady is already paid peanuts.

Peanuts? He's making 15 million per at a cap hit of 22m. It's a lot less than elite guys, but it's not cheap for an average player. He's gonna restructure again for sure, but figuring out how to manage that cap will be tough.

You don't know how much JG wants to stay in NE either. I don't either, but the chance to play for Kraft and BB is incredibly enticing. Sacrificing a year or two might be worth it. Neither of us knows.

We'll revisit this in a year and see what happened. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. I'm not even saying this will unfold, just that it's a distinct possibility.

 

[upstater]

Peanuts? He's making 15 million per at a cap hit of 22m. It's a lot less than elite guys, but it's not cheap for an average player. He's gonna restructure again for sure, but figuring out how to manage that cap will be tough.

You don't know how much JG wants to stay in NE either. I don't either, but the chance to play for Kraft and BB is incredibly enticing. Sacrificing a year or two might be worth it. Neither of us knows.

We'll revisit this in a year and see what happened. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. I'm not even saying this will unfold, just that it's a distinct possibility.

Brady should be at $28m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts. If Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck are worth $25m, Brady is worth $28m.

 

[intlzncster]

Brady should be at $30m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts.

I guess. But we are talking about cap hit. That's all that matters from a team perspective.

Brady would probably play for zero anyway. I don't think he attaches ANY ego to his paycheck at this point. He's playing for Legacy. And the way to maximize that is to minimize dollars. Seeing as he doesn't have much time left, I think he'll lean that way. jmo.

 

[intlzncster]

Brady should be at $28m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts. If Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck are worth $25m, Brady is worth $28m.

Again, you are focusing on it from a player's perspective, not the team's. When in reality, the only thing that matters is the team perspective -> which is a $22m cap hit. That is NOT peanuts. So he's effectively playing for $22m per year, as far as NFL salary structures are concerned.

Add to that my contention that Brady doesn't care one lick about his contract, and you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[kobe]

Sounds like my Raiders got a good one in the UConn safety. If our defense could even be league average we'd be a serious contender.

 

[nomar]

Sounds like my Raiders got a good one in the UConn safety. If our defense could even be league average we'd be a serious contender.

Well, assuming Conley is free & clear, the Raiders really shored up their secondary.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Why do you think the impact is very low? Cooks is younger than some of the guys getting drafted yesterday.

Because cooks has two years before they either have to pay him a mega deal or let him go. The benefit of first round picks is you have he chance to get big production for five years or paying them way below veteran market value.

 

[intlzncster]

Because cooks has two years before they either have to pay him a mega deal or let him go. The benefit of first round picks is you have he chance to get big production for five years or paying them way below veteran market value.

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

 

[upstater]

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

I just think Cooks was a special player he was salivating after. The offense played great last year, but there was so much pressure on Brady and Edelman. James White was a nice safety valve, but you're putting extreme pressure on 2 players to perform. Cooks and the emergence of Mitchell will now create havoc for defenses, and anything Gronk can give you is gravy.

 

[NielsisGood]

I totally agree he won't force Brady out if he's still playing at an optimum level. But if there's a little slippage, I think he'll pounce. The quarterback position is too important to do otherwise. BB is a computer when it comes to this stuff. Sentimentality and emotion are a detriment to winning in the NFL. Every time.



I made that sound a lot more contentious than it was meant to be. I just think Brady is such a team player, he'd be more than happy to work out a situation that benefited the team long term, even if he sacrificed money. I truly believe he doesn't give a rats arse about money at this point.

Everyone on the Pats knows they're on borrowed time, even if they play great. Heck, half the time it's because they play great. 'Football is a business' is accepted practice when you come to the Pats. 'It is known'. So to speak.

And people always say, BB would never do this....and he goes and does it.

Keeping Brady wouldn't be about sentimentality, forcing him out or to take a massive pay cut would just send a horrible message to the locker room and any prospective free agents in the near term. At this point, even if BB wants to move on from Brady, he'd have to do it in a way that Brady would agree with the decision. Otherwise disrespecting Brady is a completely different level than trading Mankins or Seymour, and even the Mankins move was detrimental to clubhouse culture at the time.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

Ehh, I think you're slightly overstating the youth of the impact players. The O-line is young and pretty strong across the board, but aside from that, there isn't exactly an abundance of impact players that are both young and cheap. That's the tough part about basically trading a draft for win-now guys (and interestingly enough, something that the Patriots and BB have historically been amazing at). By the time Brady steps away (and I really see no reason why BB would want to stay after that at his age), no one on the current roster will be all three of an impact player, young, and cheap. Again, I agree with the approach because there is no way they are even remotely guaranteed an elite team after Brady leaves so might as well go for it while you can.

 

[intlzncster]

By the time Brady steps away (and I really see no reason why BB would want to stay after that at his age), no one on the current roster will be all three of an impact player, young, and cheap. Again, I agree with the approach because there is no way they are even remotely guaranteed an elite team after Brady leaves so might as well go for it while you can.

Why do you think that? Bill doesn't seem too concerned about legacy. He's a true football lifer/historian. He does it for the joy of doing of it. He's always saying that there is nothing he'd rather be doing with his time than the year round participation/team building/coaching aspects of the game.

Bill is the type of personality that I think he would enjoy the challenge of doing it without Brady, not for public perception, but simply for the intellectual/physical exercise itself. And he's completely fearless with respect to the game. Nothing about him tells me otherwise.

As far as the team goes, of course not many on the current team will be that, but you are discounting the fact that any of these draft picks might be. As we know, the draft is a total crapshoot, especially where the Patriots pick every year. It's not like they completely sacrificed the entire draft. The two top kids really are high upside dudes. Just depends if they make the jump. But I think that latter concept is overrated anyway.

Also, you can have a bad draft year (which the jury is obviously out on 2017) and be fine. Look at where the Pats are right now. Loaded. Yet guys hitting their prime from the 2013 & 2014 draft should feature prominently. 2013 - there's only one guy left: Duron Harmon (not exactly impact). 2014-Jimmy G and James White.

They'll be fine.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I just think Cooks was a special player he was salivating after. The offense played great last year, but there was so much pressure on Brady and Edelman. James White was a nice safety valve, but you're putting extreme pressure on 2 players to perform. Cooks and the emergence of Mitchell will now create havoc for defenses, and anything Gronk can give you is gravy.

You can't overstate how much it matters that Belichick knows Cooks. The Patriots practiced with the Saints each of the last two years, and have played them. Cooks reportedly burned every corner the Pats had in those practices. I think Bill knows what he's getting here.

Look at the receiving corps otherwise. Edelman, like Welker before him, can't hold up playing they style he does. Amendola is injury prone and just restructured again to stay. Gonk...love him, can't rely upon him to be healthy. Hogan was a solid addition and Malcolm Mitchell looks like a legit NFL WR. But aside from those two guys, and hopefully Allen at TE, everybody else is suspect. Cooks gives them a very potent, young, deep threat. It will be hard to defend him, Hogan, Edelman and the TE, plus the various RBs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Brady should be at $28m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts. If Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck are worth $25m, Brady is worth $28m.

They aren't worth $25m. Let me know when some team that has that much tied up in their QB actually wins something. Smart QBs know they are better off taking less so they can have some weapons, maybe a decent OL to save their skin, and a defense to win games.

 

[upstater]

They aren't worth $25m. Let me know when some team that has that much tied up in their QB actually wins something. Smart QBs know they are better off taking less so they can have some weapons, maybe a decent OL to save their skin, and a defense to win games.

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

 

[intlzncster]

You can't overstate how much it matters that Belichick knows Cooks. The Patriots practiced with the Saints each of the last two years, and have played them. Cooks reportedly burned every corner the Pats had in those practices. I think Bill knows what he's getting here.

Look at the receiving corps otherwise. Edelman, like Welker before him, can't hold up playing they style he does. Amendola is injury prone and just restructured again to stay. Gonk...love him, can't rely upon him to be healthy. Hogan was a solid addition and Malcolm Mitchell looks like a legit NFL WR. But aside from those two guys, and hopefully Allen at TE, everybody else is suspect. Cooks gives them a very potent, young, deep threat. It will be hard to defend him, Hogan, Edelman and the TE, plus the various RBs.

I think just as importantly, is what it does for the Pats offense. Right now, it is a balanced offense, focusing on short, mid range passing. Edelman/Amendola/Gronk/Mitchell/Hogan can all go deep, but it is not exactly a specialty. Cooks completely changes the game, being a legit deep threat. It's going to open up the middle of the field SO much for those other guys. I'm getting a 2007 feel going into this season, on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[HuskyHawk]

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

But that's just further stupidity. You sign some useless backup like Osweiler and end up playing a guy you pay more like $3M because he's better. Then paying the Browns to eat his salary. Baltimore wildly overpaid Flacco too.