OT: NFL Draft

[intlzncster]

Brady should be at $30m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts.

I guess. But we are talking about cap hit. That's all that matters from a team perspective.

Brady would probably play for zero anyway. I don't think he attaches ANY ego to his paycheck at this point. He's playing for Legacy. And the way to maximize that is to minimize dollars. Seeing as he doesn't have much time left, I think he'll lean that way. jmo.

 

[intlzncster]

Brady should be at $28m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts. If Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck are worth $25m, Brady is worth $28m.

Again, you are focusing on it from a player's perspective, not the team's. When in reality, the only thing that matters is the team perspective -> which is a $22m cap hit. That is NOT peanuts. So he's effectively playing for $22m per year, as far as NFL salary structures are concerned.

Add to that my contention that Brady doesn't care one lick about his contract, and you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[kobe]

Sounds like my Raiders got a good one in the UConn safety. If our defense could even be league average we'd be a serious contender.

 

[nomar]

Sounds like my Raiders got a good one in the UConn safety. If our defense could even be league average we'd be a serious contender.

Well, assuming Conley is free & clear, the Raiders really shored up their secondary.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Why do you think the impact is very low? Cooks is younger than some of the guys getting drafted yesterday.

Because cooks has two years before they either have to pay him a mega deal or let him go. The benefit of first round picks is you have he chance to get big production for five years or paying them way below veteran market value.

 

[intlzncster]

Because cooks has two years before they either have to pay him a mega deal or let him go. The benefit of first round picks is you have he chance to get big production for five years or paying them way below veteran market value.

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

 

[upstater]

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

I just think Cooks was a special player he was salivating after. The offense played great last year, but there was so much pressure on Brady and Edelman. James White was a nice safety valve, but you're putting extreme pressure on 2 players to perform. Cooks and the emergence of Mitchell will now create havoc for defenses, and anything Gronk can give you is gravy.

 

[NielsisGood]

I totally agree he won't force Brady out if he's still playing at an optimum level. But if there's a little slippage, I think he'll pounce. The quarterback position is too important to do otherwise. BB is a computer when it comes to this stuff. Sentimentality and emotion are a detriment to winning in the NFL. Every time.



I made that sound a lot more contentious than it was meant to be. I just think Brady is such a team player, he'd be more than happy to work out a situation that benefited the team long term, even if he sacrificed money. I truly believe he doesn't give a rats arse about money at this point.

Everyone on the Pats knows they're on borrowed time, even if they play great. Heck, half the time it's because they play great. 'Football is a business' is accepted practice when you come to the Pats. 'It is known'. So to speak.

And people always say, BB would never do this....and he goes and does it.

Keeping Brady wouldn't be about sentimentality, forcing him out or to take a massive pay cut would just send a horrible message to the locker room and any prospective free agents in the near term. At this point, even if BB wants to move on from Brady, he'd have to do it in a way that Brady would agree with the decision. Otherwise disrespecting Brady is a completely different level than trading Mankins or Seymour, and even the Mankins move was detrimental to clubhouse culture at the time.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I get that. But they have a loaded young roster, so they can make moves like that right now. If they did it every year, it would be a problem, but with the situation as it is right now, that's OK.

Supposedly, this was a deep draft, so you don't necessarily need to score be in the first round. I'm guessing BB thought he'd gamble on top shelf play right out the shoot, rather than a guy who might have trouble cracking this starting lineup as it is. Just thinking out loud.

I do think that the structure of the young roster, as it is now is what lead him to feel comfortable with the move. But admit Brady coming to an end might have played into it as well.

Ehh, I think you're slightly overstating the youth of the impact players. The O-line is young and pretty strong across the board, but aside from that, there isn't exactly an abundance of impact players that are both young and cheap. That's the tough part about basically trading a draft for win-now guys (and interestingly enough, something that the Patriots and BB have historically been amazing at). By the time Brady steps away (and I really see no reason why BB would want to stay after that at his age), no one on the current roster will be all three of an impact player, young, and cheap. Again, I agree with the approach because there is no way they are even remotely guaranteed an elite team after Brady leaves so might as well go for it while you can.

 

[intlzncster]

By the time Brady steps away (and I really see no reason why BB would want to stay after that at his age), no one on the current roster will be all three of an impact player, young, and cheap. Again, I agree with the approach because there is no way they are even remotely guaranteed an elite team after Brady leaves so might as well go for it while you can.

Why do you think that? Bill doesn't seem too concerned about legacy. He's a true football lifer/historian. He does it for the joy of doing of it. He's always saying that there is nothing he'd rather be doing with his time than the year round participation/team building/coaching aspects of the game.

Bill is the type of personality that I think he would enjoy the challenge of doing it without Brady, not for public perception, but simply for the intellectual/physical exercise itself. And he's completely fearless with respect to the game. Nothing about him tells me otherwise.

As far as the team goes, of course not many on the current team will be that, but you are discounting the fact that any of these draft picks might be. As we know, the draft is a total crapshoot, especially where the Patriots pick every year. It's not like they completely sacrificed the entire draft. The two top kids really are high upside dudes. Just depends if they make the jump. But I think that latter concept is overrated anyway.

Also, you can have a bad draft year (which the jury is obviously out on 2017) and be fine. Look at where the Pats are right now. Loaded. Yet guys hitting their prime from the 2013 & 2014 draft should feature prominently. 2013 - there's only one guy left: Duron Harmon (not exactly impact). 2014-Jimmy G and James White.

They'll be fine.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I just think Cooks was a special player he was salivating after. The offense played great last year, but there was so much pressure on Brady and Edelman. James White was a nice safety valve, but you're putting extreme pressure on 2 players to perform. Cooks and the emergence of Mitchell will now create havoc for defenses, and anything Gronk can give you is gravy.

You can't overstate how much it matters that Belichick knows Cooks. The Patriots practiced with the Saints each of the last two years, and have played them. Cooks reportedly burned every corner the Pats had in those practices. I think Bill knows what he's getting here.

Look at the receiving corps otherwise. Edelman, like Welker before him, can't hold up playing they style he does. Amendola is injury prone and just restructured again to stay. Gonk...love him, can't rely upon him to be healthy. Hogan was a solid addition and Malcolm Mitchell looks like a legit NFL WR. But aside from those two guys, and hopefully Allen at TE, everybody else is suspect. Cooks gives them a very potent, young, deep threat. It will be hard to defend him, Hogan, Edelman and the TE, plus the various RBs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Brady should be at $28m. When you get half your worth, that's peanuts. If Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck are worth $25m, Brady is worth $28m.

They aren't worth $25m. Let me know when some team that has that much tied up in their QB actually wins something. Smart QBs know they are better off taking less so they can have some weapons, maybe a decent OL to save their skin, and a defense to win games.

 

[upstater]

They aren't worth $25m. Let me know when some team that has that much tied up in their QB actually wins something. Smart QBs know they are better off taking less so they can have some weapons, maybe a decent OL to save their skin, and a defense to win games.

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

 

[intlzncster]

You can't overstate how much it matters that Belichick knows Cooks. The Patriots practiced with the Saints each of the last two years, and have played them. Cooks reportedly burned every corner the Pats had in those practices. I think Bill knows what he's getting here.

Look at the receiving corps otherwise. Edelman, like Welker before him, can't hold up playing they style he does. Amendola is injury prone and just restructured again to stay. Gonk...love him, can't rely upon him to be healthy. Hogan was a solid addition and Malcolm Mitchell looks like a legit NFL WR. But aside from those two guys, and hopefully Allen at TE, everybody else is suspect. Cooks gives them a very potent, young, deep threat. It will be hard to defend him, Hogan, Edelman and the TE, plus the various RBs.

I think just as importantly, is what it does for the Pats offense. Right now, it is a balanced offense, focusing on short, mid range passing. Edelman/Amendola/Gronk/Mitchell/Hogan can all go deep, but it is not exactly a specialty. Cooks completely changes the game, being a legit deep threat. It's going to open up the middle of the field SO much for those other guys. I'm getting a 2007 feel going into this season, on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[HuskyHawk]

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

But that's just further stupidity. You sign some useless backup like Osweiler and end up playing a guy you pay more like $3M because he's better. Then paying the Browns to eat his salary. Baltimore wildly overpaid Flacco too.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think just as importantly, is what it does for the Pats offense. Right now, it is a balanced offense, focusing on short, mid range passing. Edelman/Amendola/Gronk/Mitchell/Hogan can all go deep, but it is not exactly a specialty. Cooks completely changes the game, being a legit deep threat. It's going to open up the middle of the field SO much for those other guys. I'm getting a 2007 feel going into this season, on the offensive side of the ball.

I think Hogan lead the league in YPC, or was close. He was a legit deep threat. But you are right that you now have two deep threats, plus Gronk who can run deep routes down the middle. How do you defend that and Edelman/White/Amendola underneath? That top corner has to be on Cooks due to his speed (plus safety help), putting Hogan against a #2 with no safety help and Edelman against a nickel back. The offense is looking scary as hell. I think they have more weapons than in 2007.

 

[intlzncster]

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

You're right, but Luck has always been overrated in my opinion. He's got all the throws, toughness, etc, but he doesn't make the best decisions. People say his Oline is terrible, and while they're not great, they are better than given credit for. It's Luck who makes them worse than they actually are, converse to Brady, who makes his better than they actually are. Luck has a lot of admirable traits, but...

1. because he has the ability to scramble, doesn't stay in the pocket. When a QB is in the pocket, the O line knows where to block. Once he's out, it's no longer on the Oline, as their backs were to the QB; It's all on the QB.

2. because he's a tough guy, he'll hold the ball longer, and is willing to take the big hit, which while admirable, is stupid as far as mid season health and career longevity goes. He's not as built as Big Ben, and even Ben has been walking wounded for years.

3. because he has the Gunslinger mentality, and because he can make all the throws, he tries to fit balls in in situations where he should just throw it away. Brett Favre is the only true comparable Gunslinger I've seen that was successful in the modern game; he's a rare gem. Elway and Marino had some of it, but they were definitely smarter about it.

A player like Russell Wilson suffered from the first two things early in his career, but has grown past that now.

Until Luck learns to stay in the pocket at all costs, get rid of the ball quickly, and make quick, smart decisions with the football, he won't be leading that team anywhere deep in the post season.

 

[intlzncster]

I think Hogan lead the league in YPC, or was close. He was a legit deep threat. But you are right that you now have two deep threats, plus Gronk who can run deep routes down the middle. How do you defend that and Edelman/White/Amendola underneath? That top corner has to be on Cooks due to his speed (plus safety help), putting Hogan against a #2 with no safety help and Edelman against a nickel back. The offense is looking scary as hell. I think they have more weapons than in 2007.

True, I'm not saying he wasn't capable. But when I think true deep threat, I'm looking at Julio Jones, AB, Moss, Fitzgerald, AJ Green type guys. Cooks can operate in the group as far as going deep.

Hogan still did most of his damage in the mid range game (20-25 yds). He consistently produced in that area, and that's what kept his average up iirc. He wasn't used short range very often. Also, once Gronk went down, he was the primary mid range, seam guy in the area of the field Gronk used to operate. And for whatever reason, his greatest skill was getting separation of any kind (towards the QB, to the sideline or behind). He just has an incredible feel for getting space pre catch. Which makes him really effective at breaking that first tackle.

Cooks will operate in the 30+ range with regularity. I mean the speed on this kid is otherwordly.

I compare him most to Antonio Brown. He's alike in many ways, although a step down of course. It's AB and Julio as my 1 and 1a in the League right now.

 

[JSM1970]

Luck 3-3 in playoff games, 9 TDs, 12 INTs, PR of 70.3

He's a huge compiler and very unlikeable

As a Jets fan would absolutely take him but he needs to win something at some point and now he maybe injury-prone

When Tyrod Taylor and Osweiler are in the $15-18m range, it is very hard to argue against Luck at $25m.

 

[intlzncster]

Luck 3-3 in playoff games, 9 TDs, 12 INTs, PR of 70.3

He's a huge compiler and very unlikeable

As a Jets fan would absolutely take him but he needs to win something at some point and now he maybe injury-prone

Unlikeable? I mean, I get he's not some polished spokesperson, but he seems more like a goofy everyman than anything. I mean, he's not the universally loved type, but it's kinda hard to hate a guy like that.