OT: Juwan Durham update

[QDOG5]

And you're so certain it's a vastly different story?

I was merely responding to the statement that "Duke doesn't hold scholarships for non-NBA guys" with four concrete counter examples. Either I'm right, or you think Antonio Vrankovic and Jordan Goldwire are pro prospects.

I agree with you Stair. Even a guy like John Schreyer who had a great four year career at Duke but was a borderline pro from the time he was recruited until the end of his career. He's now an asst for the Dukies. I think after we beat Duke in 1999 and four of the Duke players left early for the draft that Coach K changed his recruiting process. I think he went for a balance of one and dones and four year guys. That way he was assured of some continuity year after year. I think that Calipari reeling in 5 in the top fifty every year has forced K to go after more of the one and dones in recent years. The fact that UConn has defeated both schools in a national semi-final and final brings me endless joy.

 

[BUConn10]

Yeah that's it no doubt. It's the fact KO didn't have plan for him not the fact KO's plan wasn't what Juwan wanted to hear. And the fact he thought he should have played more his freshman year had nothing to do with his leaving either, even though we all know he did nothing to earn more time. I mean the only ones who sees potential in this kid are GTech, ND, Virginia Tech and Duke, KO didn't see any potential now did he? I mean 2 knee surgeries in 2 years and not playing more than a handful of games but he still accepted him with open arms to his program, but only K sees the real potential.

Hilarious stuff you and Chief should grab some dinner together to just touch on the transfers, may take a while so leave early.

These are quotes from kid's damn mouth in two different articles!

Get off your high horse and give it a break, holy s---...

 

[mauconnfan]

These are quotes from kid's damn mouth in two different articles!

Get off your high horse and give it a break, holy s---...

Ok off my damn high horse now so tell me what is the kid going to say think about for once? He's going to say Monmouth's plan is better than UConn's, he's transferring after all in case you didn't know. Geez you're ignorant.

 

[RJScootin]

Right, he'll be 2 years farther along in his development.

You're sounding an awful lot like a casual fan.

Its the casual fan who wouldn't have the foresight to see developing Enoch was more important than playing Brimah a player going no where on a team going no where.

Right in two years he'll be more developed, it would have been nice for that development to come through with him as a senior for UConn. Instead this board will sweat some 5th year transfer commit for a year who averaged 2 rebs and 2.8 points from St. Joe's.

 

[mauconnfan]

Its the casual fan who wouldn't have the foresight to see developing Enoch was more important than playing Brimah a player going no where on a team going no where.

Right in two years he'll be more developed, it would have been nice for that development to come through with him as a senior for UConn. Instead this board will sweat some 5th year transfer commit for a year who averaged 2 rebs and 2.8 points from St. Joe's.

And Steve's were so much better? 3/2.3...There's a chance our sweating the 5th year guy or a freshman may bring us more impact, especially if he can defend his position.

 

[CTBasketball]

Its the casual fan who wouldn't have the foresight to see developing Enoch was more important than playing Brimah a player going no where on a team going no where.

Right in two years he'll be more developed, it would have been nice for that development to come through with him as a senior for UConn. Instead this board will sweat some 5th year transfer commit for a year who averaged 2 rebs and 2.8 points from St. Joe's.

As much as I want to agree with this it's hard to. I will say that in January when we were 7-11 (2-5) overall that was the tipping point. We were out of it unless we won some games and went on a run - and we did. If we didn't? I wouldn't have a problem playing Enoch, even starting him. Especially if we were locked in to the AAC 6/7/8 seeds in January.

But I think he should have gotten more minutes. He was more valuable than Durham IMO. But if we wanted to win games Brimah's impact on defense trumped all other possible centers impact. Had to go with it.

 

[upstater]

And Steve's were so much better? 3/2.3...There's a chance our sweating the 5th year guy or a freshman may bring us more impact, especially if he can defend his position.

RJ Scootin literally wants UConn to lose games by playing the unseasoned players. It's a crazy theory, and surely the downfall of any program if you think like that.

 

[Wordbomar]

I'm sorry but no way Durham is Duke good. Will be like Obi and sit until he transfers again.

 

[intlzncster]

It doesn't have to be just pro prospects, whoever said that originally was exaggerating, it not so black and white. The fact is them offering him a scholarship is essentially a commitment to a school or for the next 4 years as well. On a team whose scholarships are each valuable and aren't handed out to just anyone, K clearly has a plan for him, which is what JD feels he didn't have st UConn going forward as he claims.

Alternatively to stair's point, K and Rick could simply see potential upside, and don't mind stashing a kid at the end of the bench for potential high reward payoff. Really low risk, high reward proposition.

UCONN saw that potential upside too. I don't think they wanted either to transfer. But the kids didn't want to be here. That's it.

I don't see why these concepts are so hard for people.

 

[intlzncster]

Its the casual fan who wouldn't have the foresight to see developing Enoch was more important than playing Brimah a player going no where on a team going no where.

RJ Scootin literally wants UConn to lose games by playing the unseasoned players. It's a crazy theory, and surely the downfall of any program if you think like that.

Nah, it's just the way it's always been done here. You earn your PT in practice. The other way is participation-trophy mentality.

And the team wasn't 'going nowhere' until the season was over. They still had a chance for the Dance right up through the end what with the auto bid still out there.

Tanking is for pvssies.

 

[upstater]

Alternatively to stair's point, K and Rick could simply see potential upside, and don't mind stashing a kid at the end of the bench for potential high reward payoff. Really low risk, high reward proposition.

UConn saw that potential upside too. I don't think they wanted either to transfer. But the kids didn't want to be here. That's it.

I don't see why these concepts are so hard for people.

People act like every recruit that goes to these schools pans out. They don't.

Go look at the Louisville board and see what they are saying about the lack of development of Pitino's recent big man recruits.

 

[Stainmaster]

People act like every recruit that goes to these schools pans out. They don't.

Go look at the Louisville board and see what they are saying about the lack of development of Pitino's recent big man recruits.

People only follow UConn closely, they don't have any idea that our problems aren't wholly unique.

 

[Stainmaster]

Its the casual fan who wouldn't have the foresight to see developing Enoch was more important than playing Brimah a player going no where on a team going no where.

Right in two years he'll be more developed, it would have been nice for that development to come through with him as a senior for UConn. Instead this board will sweat some 5th year transfer commit for a year who averaged 2 rebs and 2.8 points from St. Joe's.

Alrighty then, sounds like you wanted this year's record to be worse than 16-17. I can't imagine for the life of me why, but okay.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Anyone who watched more than ten seconds of Enoch last season could recognize that his problem was not knowing where the hell he was supposed to be or what the hell he was supposed to be doing rather than athleticism. Quite frankly, I'm glad that even a casual fan like you could pick that up.

Agree. But whose job is it to tell the player where to be and what to do in each situation?

Granted, he was clueless at both when he got here, but he is still clueless at both 2 years later as he leaves.

I guarantee Enoch will be a lot better at knowing where to be and what to do with Rick Pitino instructing him.

 

[intlzncster]

Agree. But whose job is it to tell the player where to be and what to do in each situation?

Granted, he was clueless at both when he got here, but he is still clueless at both 2 years later as he leaves.

I guarantee Enoch will be a lot better at knowing where to be and what to do with Rick Pitino instructing him.

You don't think he was told over and over? The kid clearly had trouble picking it up his first two years here. Doesn't mean the light bulb wouldn't have come on as an upperclassmen. Bigs, especially raw ones, do take quite a bit longer to develop than other players.

I personally think Pitino's zone will simplify things for Enoch in the interior to his advantage. It will also play more towards his athletic limitations.

 

[businesslawyer]

Agree. But whose job is it to tell the player where to be and what to do in each situation?

Granted, he was clueless at both when he got here, but he is still clueless at both 2 years later as he leaves.

I guarantee Enoch will be a lot better at knowing where to be and what to do with Rick Pitino instructing him.

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it. Proven at recruiting, running an offense and having the vision as to how to create and organize players into a team? Absolutely. But UConn's play under KO does not fit the narrative that we are generally unable to teach players how to defend. See, e.g., our last national championship.

 

[ivrytontusker]

If Durham wants more playing time why would he go to Duke?

VT, ND, etc., Louisville, etc., would give him more playing time than Duke.

 

[August_West]

If Durham wants more playing time why would he go to Duke?

VT, ND, etc., Louisville, etc., would give him more playing time than Duke.

Maybe the Hugs and "Coaching for relationships" style of K appeals to Juwans inner softness.

 

[intlzncster]

Maybe the Hugs and "Coaching for relationships" style of K appeals to Juwans inner softness.

Relentless.

 

[boog204]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has?

Umm, yes? You cited the 2014 natty. Louisville's defense against us that year was pretty damn good.

76-64; we shot 35%, they shot 48%
81-48, we shot 29%, they shot 45%
71-61; we shot 44%, they shot 41%

In the three games, they totally stifled us twice and the great defensive team that we were, was more or less a non-factor.

I know it's easy to beat on Pitino for his indiscretions, but he's a hall of famer who has taken three different schools to final fours, has won two championships (could have been more if he stayed at UK), and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches ever. You're really thinking that KO has the upper hand on him in any category at this juncture?

I think KO can absolutely coach defense; but saying that KO has "demonstrated that he can do it better" is pretty much disregarding Pitino's 25+ years of consistent excellence.

 

[CL82]

I'm wondering what this thread would like if wasn't getting high major interest. Probably, "I can't believe Ollie wasted a scholarship on this kid. No one else is interested in him."

 

[intlzncster]

Umm, yes? You cited the 2014 natty. Louisville's defense against us that year was pretty damn good.

76-64; we shot 35%, they shot 48%
81-48, we shot 29%, they shot 45%
71-61; we shot 44%, they shot 41%

In the three games, they totally stifled us twice and the great defensive team that we were, was more or less a non-factor.

I know it's easy to beat on Pitino for his indiscretions, but he's a hall of famer who has taken three different schools to final fours, has won two championships (could have been more if he stayed at UK), and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches ever. You're really thinking that KO has the upper hand on him in any category at this juncture?

I think KO can absolutely coach defense; but saying that KO has "demonstrated that he can do it better" is pretty much disregarding Pitino's 25+ years of consistent excellence.

That's mildly disingenuous though. That Louisville team was also constructed in such a fashion to be kryptonite for UCONN. That's the only team in the country that was beating us at the end of the year. Just the worst matchups possible.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it. Proven at recruiting, running an offense and having the vision as to how to create and organize players into a team? Absolutely. But UConn's play under KO does not fit the narrative that we are generally unable to teach players how to defend. See, e.g., our last national championship.

I mean yes, absolutely. Are you trying to argue that KO is as good of a defensive coach as Rick Pitino, possibly the best ever?

Kenpom Adj team Defense:

Lousiville UConn

2013: 1 59
2014: 5 10
2015: 5 60
2016: 2 12
2017: 8 63

Average: 4.2 40.8

Every year has been better than our best year. We've had two very good years and 3 average ones. In 5 years, his teams have finished top 5 in 4 of them and their worst finish is 8th. That's pretty incredible. Talent is one variable, but they are also playing better teams. But that really isn't close.

KO is a good defensive coach, but those stats would disagree with the defensive wizard some make him out to be on here. And comparing him to Pitino, one of, if not the best defensive coach ever? Come on.

And that wasn't even the point I was making. I was replying to a poster and referring to his positioning knowledge on both ends and in all situations during a game.

Point is, when Enoch gets a heck of a lot better, most people on here will chalk it up to time. Which is certainly one aspect. But he was here for a long time too and didn't exactly show much growth.

 

[Huskyforlife]

He wont. And just say he does for arguments sake, if we're winning we wont give a damn. We need to worry about what we have and what we can get going foward amd stop crying over spilled milk. He left because he was mentally soft. He can never play basketball again for all i care

You're aloud to feel that way. I'm still having a hard time with the loss of a player I thought had lots of talent, and seeing coaches like Buzz, K, and Brey pursue him confirms my opinion.

I look forward to watching Whaley, Diarra, Carlton, and Cobb. But I don't think any of them have the raw talent of Enoch or Durham.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I'm wondering what this thread would like if wasn't getting high major interest. Probably, "I can't believe Ollie wasted a scholarship on this kid. No one else is interested in him."

That would make sense, considering players at low majors generally have less talent than players at high majors. But in the case of Enoch and Durham, they are getting high major interest.

 

[auror]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it.

That's a pretty unassailable assumption.

Pitino has coached Louisville to a top 10 adjusted defense 7 years in a row (6 of which in top 5), including 2 #1s and a #2. Pretty Spartacus ridiculous, to be honest.

 

[3'sGetDegrees]

You're aloud to feel that way. I'm still having a hard time with the loss of a player I thought had lots of talent, and seeing coaches like Buzz, K, and Brey pursue him confirms my opinion.

I look forward to watching Whaley, Diarra, Carlton, and Cobb. But I don't think any of them have the raw talent of Enoch or Durham.

Now Enoch is someone I am going to miss. I thought he had the most potential. He had the size and skills. I think he will be real nice down the road. I am sad to see him go.

 

[auror]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it.

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

 

[KingAG]

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

Anyone comparing ollie to pitino at this point in ollie's career are dumb and being absolutely unfair. Ollie has been coaching for 5 yrs while pitino is a hall of famer. Compare ollie to the smart's and tony Bennett's of the world

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

Ive tried 10 times to post the Ken Pom Adj D stats. Thought i posted it hours ago, but for some reason only about half of my posts end up showing up.

So Ill post it again:

Kenpom Adj team Defense:

Lousiville UConn

2013: 1 59
2014: 5 10
2015: 5 60
2016: 2 12
2017: 8 63

Average: 4.2 40.8

Its literally not even close. His worst year is better than KO's best. 5 year sample size, but that's all we have to go on.

KO is a good defensive coach, but saying hes on the same level as Pitino? Absurd.