OT-Is Brady hurt?

[Jerry1714]

Consider this me calling you out for avoiding the question.

This is me calling you out for not reading the full thread.

 

[Rocktheworld]

You are in the minority then. Most people I meet in bars enjoy seeing the Pats lose more than anything outside their own team winning. And the amount of BS spread around the Net about the Pats borders on JFK conspiracy levels.

Because they can't wait to see how you Pats fans will react.

You expect Patriots fans to be happy you are Giants fan? For some younger fans, I imagine it's the most heartbreaking loss in their lives. I personally could care less whoever someone's fan of, but I expect you to be able to talk football without resorting to smoke and dagger BS.

There's this other new thing called neutrality. All young adult fans have seen all of the Pats's success; they've only been relevant in this millennium. So every Pats fan of drinking age has been a fan throughout the (continuing) era of dominance. So why is it that I am invariably met with sounds, looks, and words of disgust regarding an inferior program that plays in opposite coference?

And to me, there is no such thing as a "heartbreaking" professional sports loss. IMO sad if one is for someone.

Finally, I think you're conflating "smoke and mirrors" and "cloak and dagger" and misusing both.

 

[intlzncster]

So every Pats fan of drinking age has been a fan throughout the (continuing) era of dominance. So why is it that I am invariably met with sounds, looks, and words of disgust regarding an inferior program that plays in opposite coference?

Dunno. Maybe because we live in a me-first, 'we're #1' culture, that often revels in other peoples' perceived inferiority? Self protection from the 'pain' of a particular sporting moment? I do know that I look at Syracuse as an inferior program...for not much other reason than I enjoy doing so.

And to me, there is no such thing as a "heartbreaking" professional sports loss. IMO sad if one is for someone.

I'd agree to an extent, absolutely as an adult. When I was a little guy, certain losses felt like death though --eg Buckner in 86. I was pretty banged up about UCONN losing to Duke in the Dream Season; in the naivety of youth, after The Shot, I believed UCONN was destined to go all the way. And was then rudely awakened to the cruel reality that this was not the case.

Finally, I think you're conflating "smoke and mirrors" and "cloak and dagger" and misusing both.

Yep. Cloak and dagger. I was referring to 'spygate': ie the NFL is involved in a great deal of cloak and dagger machinations, favoring the Patriots by destroying tapes without anyone seeing them, etc etc. Even the use of the word 'gate' is emblematic of the phrase. Perhaps sloppy phraseology, but whatever. Basically don't want to hear people's nonsense conspiracy theories.

 

[mauconnfan]

Every team, including UConn, has fair weather fans. I can remember being at the Rent last year in the pouring rain with a handful of other fans watching UConn upset UCF. It was one of the best times I've had at any UConn sporting event. Then going home and reading complaints about the crowd on the Boneyard. Most likely from people sitting at home watching on TV.

How long were you driving to every game in the 70's, 80's and 90's? Just curious because if I want to sit at home and watch it and talk about the crowd I will really don't need your approval now do i? I'm as big of a fan as you if not moreso I am sure! Add to it the job which is up to 250 miles in day or close and a son who plays local college basketball I can enjoy the recliner when it's time.

 

[superjohn]

How long were you driving to every game in the 70's, 80's and 90's? Just curious because if I want to sit at home and watch it and talk about the crowd I will really don't need your approval now do i? I'm as big of a fan as you if not moreso I am sure! Add to it the job which is up to 250 miles in day or close and a son who plays local college basketball I can enjoy the recliner when it's time.

Where does your son play?

 

[mauconnfan]

Where does your son play?

Holyoke Community College. Started at Westfield State but the staying over thing as a freshman didn't help his grades LOL. He's on the right track again though thank God. Amazing CC though, huge gym gym and amenities with weights, training of all kinds on campus. I mean nothing like Middlesex CC where i went an played in any gym available in Middletown for our home games. And it has a campus rather than 2 buildings like MXCC LOL, times have changed.

 

[swami7774]

Yeah, sure. They could have been better. But nothing is easier in football than a PAT, and with a PAT they're in OT.

They had 47 minutes to overcome the missed PAT. This was on the O-line, which was terrible.
It's also on Brady, who--for some reason I can't figure out, even having watched the replay about 25 times--didn't loft the ball to Gronk on the 2-point try. He had broken open and could have caught the ball with one hand.

 

[dogfan96]

And really they got gifted their first TD off a fluke play on the backward pass. Brady was feeling the heat all day and when you get hit 23 times in a game, you get gun shy and feel the pressure even when it's not there and try to get rid of the ball more quickly than you might actually have to in anticipation of the rush.

 

[intlzncster]

They had 47 minutes to overcome the missed PAT. This was on the O-line, which was terrible.
It's also on Brady, who--for some reason I can't figure out, even having watched the replay about 25 times--didn't loft the ball to Gronk on the 2-point try. He had broken open and could have caught the ball with one hand.

That's probably a result of being killed all game. DE's, especially Miller, were in his grill under 2 seconds half the game. Hit 23 times! Yikes. The Pats obviously agree with line issues all game, as they let go of the OL coach yesterday. Not sure it completely on him, given juggling all the injuries; in fact, I thought he did an admirable job during the year with the hand he was dealt. But at the end of the day, somebody had to take the fall for that one. I imagine a number of OL players themselves won't be back.

Also, didn't Brady roll to the right by design on that play, where as Gronk was in the left corner? I may not be remembering correctly. But Brady moving to the right and throwing back across his body to the opposite side isn't exactly his strongest throw.

 

[Kitaman]

Can we close this thread? Here is Brady's admission which validates Pats posters here:

Linky.

'Brady acknowledged after the game that he struggled to read the Broncos’ defense and see where the rush would be coming from, and as a result he was rattled.

“There were definitely times where I had opportunities to hold the ball and didn’t really have great awareness of where people were around me,” Brady said. “Maybe sometimes I had more time.”

A lot of the blame should also go to the Patriots’ offensive line, but Brady didn’t say that. He took the blame for himself, after a rough loss that ended the Patriots’ bid for a fifth Super Bowl ring.'

 

[intlzncster]

And really they got gifted their first TD off a fluke play on the backward pass. Brady was feeling the heat all day and when you get hit 23 times in a game, you get gun shy and feel the pressure even when it's not there and try to get rid of the ball more quickly than you might actually have to in anticipation of the rush.

I know that looked like complete luck. And to a large extent, the catch was a result of Gronk's considerable skill. Every route tree in the Patriots offense are option routes given coverage. That play was likely designed for Gronk to go to the back of the endzone and if blanketed, come back to the QB. Similar to damn every play in their playbook.

Brady saw the coverage threw it short into space (although it was still not a great throw). The defender played the route very well, was all over Gronk, and made it difficult for his to break back to space. Gronk broke free late and managed a spectacular catch. All Gronk on that play.

 

[intlzncster]

Can we close this thread? Here is Brady's admission which validates Pats posters here:

Really? Can't Pats fans discuss the game as they see fit? There was a 9 page Giants thread, in addition to another Giants coaching search thread after their season ended. And no one was complaining.

 

[Kitaman]

Really? Can't Pats fans discuss the game as they see fit? There was a 9 page Giants thread, in addition to another Giants coaching search thread after their season ended. And no one was complaining.

Not saying that we can't discuss but the Pat's season is over.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Can we close this thread? Here is Brady's admission which validates Pats posters here:

Linky.

'Brady acknowledged after the game that he struggled to read the Broncos’ defense and see where the rush would be coming from, and as a result he was rattled.

“There were definitely times where I had opportunities to hold the ball and didn’t really have great awareness of where people were around me,” Brady said. “Maybe sometimes I had more time.”

A lot of the blame should also go to the Patriots’ offensive line, but Brady didn’t say that. He took the blame for himself, after a rough loss that ended the Patriots’ bid for a fifth Super Bowl ring.'

The OT was a shambles but Brady played poorly. There is no doubt. He didn't go through he usual reads and several times he threw into coverage or threw the ball away when someone else was open. Had the Patriots made an effort to win in Miami, they would be at home, and the Bronco's pass rush would not have been able to tee off against a silent snap count. Many things went into the loss on Sunday...many things. That's why I was frustrated by it, the Patriots definitely should have won the game.

 

[intlzncster]

The OT was a shambles but Brady played poorly. There is no doubt. He didn't go through he usual reads and several times he threw into coverage or threw the ball away when someone else was open. Had the Patriots made an effort to win in Miami, they would be at home, and the Bronco's pass rush would not have been able to tee off against a silent snap count. Many things went into the loss on Sunday...many things. That's why I was frustrated by it, the Patriots definitely should have won the game.

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

 

[intlzncster]

Not saying that we can't discuss but the Pat's season is over.

The NFL is a year round business. The discussion never stops.

 

[upstater]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

While everything you say is true, we've seen Brady play with better poise in similar situations in the past. Although, I have to admit, he usually gets a breather every once in a while when the OL actually manages to pick up the rushers and he gets the time to make great throws. I still say they badly need an outside WR. Brady can make those 35 yard throws.

 

[noeynox]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

I agree with your overall point, but there was nothing McDaniel could have done. Brady was under duress as soon as he got the ball. Cannon was just that bad Sunday.

 

[intlzncster]

While everything you say is true, we've seen Brady play with better poise in similar situations in the past. Although, I have to admit, he usually gets a breather every once in a while when the OL actually manages to pick up the rushers and he gets the time to make great throws. I still say they badly need an outside WR. Brady can make those 35 yard throws.

Absolutely. I (and many Pats fans) have been crying for a deep threat for years. Just look at his performances when you given him a Randy Moss on the back 9 of his career.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree with your overall point, but there was nothing McDaniel could have done. Brady was under duress as soon as he got the ball. Cannon was just that bad Sunday.

There was no magic fix, I'll grant you, given the OL issues. Right Tackle, both Cannon and Fleming, was a turnstile all day long. Vollmer struggled at LT, limited by his high ankle sprain.

McDaniels should have mixed in more screens and quick slants/curls to keep the D more honest. He should have called more edge runs (White/Bolden/Amendola/Edelman) with guys like Shaq Mason (very good at that) pulling, in order to catch DEs overplaying. Instead, he resolutely ran it up the gut for the inevitable half yard gain. Something that didn't keep the DEs honest whatsoever.

I'm not saying it would have been foolproof, but mix it up.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

They should have just played Jimmy in Miami. They would have won going away.

As for adjustments, I was disappointed in Josh and Bill. Where the heck was Michael Williams? Why wasn't he camped out next to Fleming once Cannon was out? He was brought in to play precisely that role and they didn't use him. It made no sense at all.

 

[superjohn]

The OT was a shambles but Brady played poorly. There is no doubt. He didn't go through he usual reads and several times he threw into coverage or threw the ball away when someone else was open. Had the Patriots made an effort to win in Miami, they would be at home, and the Bronco's pass rush would not have been able to tee off against a silent snap count. Many things went into the loss on Sunday...many things. That's why I was frustrated by it, the Patriots definitely should have won the game.

Broncos should have won by two touchdowns, final score shouldn't have been that close.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Broncos should have won by two touchdowns, final score shouldn't have been that close.

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him. The Broncos offense was nonexistent in the second half. The Pats had a combined 120 yard drive in the second half that yielded 0 points. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some one sided affair.

If you pressure a QB on 70% of his drop backs and knock him down 20+ times he's going to have a tough time.

 

[StoweD210]

They had 47 minutes to overcome the missed PAT. This was on the O-line, which was terrible.
It's also on Brady, who--for some reason I can't figure out, even having watched the replay about 25 times--didn't loft the ball to Gronk on the 2-point try. He had broken open and could have caught the ball with one hand.

Matt Chatham had a good breakdown of the play:



The short version is, Denver called a defense that confused Brady pre-snap about the coverage on Gronkowski, covered his next option and got pressure to prevent him from finding a better option. It was a very good defensive call by Denver, and pretty much what they did all game.

 

[superjohn]

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him. The Broncos offense was nonexistent in the second half. The Pats had a combined 120 yard drive in the second half that yielded 0 points. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some one sided affair.

If you pressure a QB on 70% of his drop backs and knock him down 20+ times he's going to have a tough time.

Nope, never dated Gisele. I just thought Denver dominated that game from the opening tip. Manning missed a couple of wide open touchdowns and Brady had a bunch of chances. Normally when he and that offense get that many chances they win. My point is the game should have been put away by Denver earlier.

 

[tzznandrew]

Nope, never dated Gisele. I just thought Denver dominated that game from the opening tip. Manning missed a couple of wide open touchdowns and Brady had a bunch of chances. Normally when he and that offense get that many chances they win. My point is the game should have been put away by Denver earlier.

Again: Manning missing touchdowns is what post-surgery Manning does. I don't think it factors into our "what-ifs" in the same way missing a PAT does when he hasn't missed one since 2006.

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him.

 

[superjohn]

Again: Manning missing touchdowns is what post-surgery Manning does. I don't think it factors into our "what-ifs" in the same way missing a PAT does when he hasn't missed one since 2006.

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

I don't play that game, Gostkowski missed an extra point in the first quarter and Denver basically handed the Patriots a touchdown on the backwards pass where the running back didn't go for the ball. The point is Denver outplayed the Patriots and the better team that day won.

 

[intlzncster]

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

I'd caveat that with saying that Denver D outplayed Patriots O. The Patriots D played really well against Denver. They were constantly stuck with crap field position. Surrendered the 2nd TD, when Denver took over on the Pats 20. Gave up only 3pts in the second half. Still gave the Offense plenty of chances to win it.

There's really only 2 plays they'd like to have back: 1. Total blown coverage on the first TD by (I assume) Collins. 2. Manning's 13 yard scamper, than Logan Ryan totally botched coming back on late.

Also, the gameplan to start the game was far too soft. Playing off receivers (respecting the deep threat against THIS manning?) and allowing Manning to get into a rhythm on intermediate routes. Crap plan there.

Denver D line won it, and Pats O line lost it.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't play that game, Gostkowski missed an extra point in the first quarter and Denver basically handed the Patriots a touchdown on the backwards pass where the running back didn't go for the ball. The point is Denver outplayed the Patriots and the better team that day won.

I'm not sure why when it happened really matters. I'm not arguing who the better team was.

Who was the better team? Denver.

A Gostowski extra point doesn't change that. But it sends the game to OT where the team being outplayed had a shot to steal a game.