OT-Is Brady hurt?

[mauconnfan]

How is that a "fluke play" ??

It was a screen pass to the RB in the left flat. Yeah, the pass went backwards, though it surely wasn't designed to. The entire play happened the way it did because of defensive pressure. The defense hurried the play, the pressure made Manning throw it earlier than he wanted to, and because of the defensive pressure on the outside, the RB had not gone far enough downfield to make the throw a forward pass, and then because the defender was right there to clobber the RB if he had made the catch, he pulled up and let it fall to the ground.

There was nothing "fluke" about it.

I don't know if it was a fluke but the defense did not cause the "fumble" at all as it hopped around in front of Hillman for a couple seconds and it was all his if he was smart enough to figure it out. It was basically a fluke where an NFL player can't read a backwards pass, or call it what you want but they didn't "force it" for sure!

 

[mauconnfan]

Denver played about 95% as well as they are capable of. New England played at about 40% of what they are capable of. The results are the results. The better team lost. The Patriots didn't make the plays when needed, Denver made the plays. It happens. But the Patriots should have won by at least 10 with a halfway decent performance.

That's ridiculous, God how annoying you guys are. Denver's offense was putrid and had many other chances they couldn't convert. Their QB is experienced yet I can pick 15 others who would've put 2 more TD's on the board. You played against a limited offense while their defense was at your 90-95% most of the time.

Is it possible the Pats just weren't that good and the schedule produced more wins than they should have had?

 

[Kitaman]

Some of you guys are making me glad that the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl this year. This thread is becoming insufferable and I have no issues against the Patriots.

 

[Scoe]

Denver played about 95% as well as they are capable of. New England played at about 40% of what they are capable of. The results are the results. The better team lost. The Patriots didn't make the plays when needed, Denver made the plays. It happens. But the Patriots should have won by at least 10 with a halfway decent performance.

Could've, should've would've, you either win our you lose. Denver beat you twice.

 

[upstater]

I don't know if it was a fluke but the defense did not cause the "fumble" at all as it hopped around in front of Hillman for a couple seconds and it was all his if he was smart enough to figure it out. It was basically a fluke where an NFL player can't read a backwards pass, or call it what you want but they didn't "force it" for sure!

I think he as saying it wasn't supposed to be a backward pass. It was only backward cause he felt the pressure.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Could've, should've would've, you either win our you lose. Denver beat you twice.

I can't and won't argue that. And Temple and Tulsa beat UConn this year. I refuse to believe that they have a more talented team than the Huskies. In many cases, these things come down to match-ups, and that great Denver defense and pass rush is a bad match-up for a Patriots team with a horrible and injured OL, especially on the road.

As for Mau's point about Manning, I agree. If that was the young Manning I wouldn't feel this way, I'd likely see them as the more talented team and wouldn't feel so badly about this loss. Instead I think the coaches, OL, Brady and a few others blew a game they should have won, given that Manning is a shadow of his former self. I don't think that's an unrealistic view, or homerism.

 

[intlzncster]

Denver and NE played twice this year and Denver won twice. Just like the Giants beat the Pats twice in 2011. But in both cases every Pats will tell you the Pats were the better team. Go figure, I thought scoring more points than the other team was actually important, guess not.

Not to quibble that point per se, but 'the better team' doesn't always win. I mean, that's why we have upsets. And yeah, they can happen twice in a year. It's 'the better team on the day' that truly matters.

There's also a variety of extenuating circumstances to every (series of) upsets. For example, while I'm not saying whether or not NE is better than Denver, but Denver barely pulled out two wins at home against NE. The second of which, the D played as well as I've ever seen it play this year. Denver was one of the healthiest teams all year; the Pats were the most injured. Yada yada yada. It's not always clear cut discussion.

I personally don't care who was 'the better team' either. End of the day, Denver was the better team on the day and that's all that matters.

 

[intlzncster]

It was less of a fluke than Brady's first interception. That was just horrific decision making, highly unusual from him. It wasn't pressure either, he had time and hadn't yet been battered.

That wasn't a fluke. It was just a terrible throw. It was a good read. The out was there. But Brady failed to get it over Edelman's (?) shoulder. He short armed it plain and simple.

 

[intlzncster]

Some of you guys are making me glad that the Patriots are not in the Super Bowl this year. This thread is becoming insufferable and I have no issues against the Patriots.

Then wtf are you reading the thread for? You are doing it to yourself. It's a non UCONN thread that features a team you don't care about. I suppose you are a masochist?

 

[mauconnfan]

Botton line:

The Pats OLine was a mess, so were many others we get that, never good. But you got that far with it so no excuses. If the line was as bad as you say against everyone then the AFC is awful because you shouldn't have gotten there. Thing is Tom needs more time than ever but he is still really good. Edelman caught what 11 balls the week before or something so can't listen to him being hurt. Ground made one of the greatest plays on a ball coming from behind defenders with an advantage and getting to it - amazing last 2 catches. He helped Tom with the last TD because that was destined for pick 6 and instead ground was the best player in that area.

The Denver D is really good and the pass rush was outrageous, just 3? Thought there were 4-5 all the time but they were fast as hell off the ball. Kudos to them for being the difference in this matchup.

Doubt they will have the same success in a couple weeks, as a matter of fact a QB who can move all over the pocket and make plays won't give them a chance to send just 3. Whole different game for the Bronco's and the DB's and pass rush for the Panthers is going to ruin Peyton's chance to leave the game with a another SB title.

 

[mauconnfan]

Then wtf are you reading the thread for? You are doing it to yourself. It's a non UCONN thread that features a team you don't care about. I suppose you are a masochist?

Bad mood? Geez

 

[intlzncster]

Bad mood? Geez

Nah, wasn't angry at all. Just perplexed. It's like the people (sometimes you? idr) jumping on a soccer thread and saying how bad soccer is or whatever. Just don't read the thread!

 

[mauconnfan]

Nah, wasn't angry at all. Just perplexed. It's like the people (sometimes you? idr) jumping on a soccer thread and saying how bad soccer is or whatever. Just don't read the thread!

This one's a little different though you just have the blinders on and that's ok. And it's not you, actually it's not all that bad but I get Kita's side no doubt.

 

[Waquoit]

Bad mood? Geez

I wonder how many posts you would have in this thread if you actually watched the game.

 

[mauconnfan]

I wonder how many posts you would have in this thread if you actually watched the game.

Why do you care? Does it bother you, I sure as hell hope so?

Oh yeah and I saw enough. I'm happy for the likes of you just so you know.

 

[Waquoit]

Why do you care? Does it bother you, I sure as hell hope so?
Oh yeah and I saw enough. I'm happy for the likes of you just so you know.

I worry for you. Being such a hater is bad for your soul.

 

[Towney007]

Did they play the #1 defense in the league all year ? Having a porous, injured offensive line is tough to deal with, but having that problem against the league's best defense is another problem altogether. Watching Miller and Ware living in the backfield, I can't recall watching a worse offensive line on what is otherwise a good team. Sure, you see that kind of horrid play from 4-12 teams, but not from a team in the conference championship game.

I said Denver deserved 1,000% of the credit and people shouldn't be BLAMING the o-line for the Pats losing. I don't care who you are, you're not going to rush/hit/drop Brady THAT MUCH even if you're facing blocking pads. Seriously. You won't. Regardless of what the Pats put out there, it was a heck of a job by their D-line. That's kind of the book on beating the Pats - but it's easier said than done.

The other reason I credit Denver's schemes and don't blame the o-line is that once the Denver secondary got dinged up and a bit winded late, Brady WAS getting off passes and moving the football in the last 8 minutes or so in spite of not much protection. I just don't think the O-Line was the difference maker. The Broncos defense - from its execution to its gameplan - was.

Maybe when he gets an O-line and a couple decent running backs?

People are aware that their offensive line, when healthy is pretty good and that Deion Lewis is an outstanding RB, right?

I mean honestly if this team is healthy - maybe they add some depth to the line - but as is, they're hands-down the most complete team in the AFC easily, if not the entire NFL. It's not like they need a total overhaul or anything. And the scarier thing is they have plenty of options to add a big piece or two.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda - but had they stayed remotely healthy, this game would have been a complete and total walk over for them. Everyone sans Carolina probably would have been. They'll be back.

 

[intlzncster]

(This reply ended up being way longer than anticipated)

The Pats OLine was a mess, so were many others we get that, never good. But you got that far with it so no excuses. If the line was as bad as you say against everyone then the AFC is awful because you shouldn't have gotten there.

You gotta understand that the injury thing was a war of attrition. It wasn't just this game. They had lost 4 of 6 going into the playoffs--struggling. I personally think the "we are getting all our guys" back was a bit over done by Boston fans and media. Guys were still hurting. And the line had zero continuity throughout the year so couldn't develop that necessary cohesiveness. From SB nation:

The Patriots have used 13 different starting offensive line combinations this season; that's more than any NFL team in more than two decades. Most of it was forced by injuries. They lost Nate Solder for the year after only four games. Five other regulars have missed time with injury this year as well. But what's even more impressive is that the line combinations didn't stop there. Head coach Bill Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels used a rotating cast of characters throughout games this season, making for 37 different blocking combinations, according to one count.​

You can also see what the affect of losing Legarrette Blount and Damion Lewis did to the running game. Steven Jackson didnt get a call from any NFL team until late December for a reason. And it's not, oh we only lost because of injuries. It's merely one of the explanations as to what transpired.

Finally, I think everyone knows the AFC was worse than the NFC this year.

Thing is Tom needs more time than ever.

Tom gets rid of the ball one of the quickest in the league (in the top 3). How does that make sense? The thing about that particular game was there was less time to throw than was physically possible to do so. No QB in history can get rid of the ball in under two seconds more than a few times.

Edelman caught what 11 balls the week before or something so can't listen to him being hurt.

I read that he tweaked his foot again in the game prior. They sent him in for Xrays after the game, which the Patriots (in their usual 'obfuscatory' manner) said was precautionary. It did look like he wasn't quite all there, but Harris was all over him in the short part of the field anyway. So it wouldn't have mattered because Tom couldn't have gotten the ball off fast enough.

Ground made one of the greatest plays on a ball coming from behind defenders with an advantage and getting to it - amazing last 2 catches. He helped Tom with the last TD because that was destined for pick 6 and instead ground was the best player in that area.

First: Gronk's really good.
Second: You gotta give Brady a lot of credit for that 4th down throw up the middle. That was shear perfection and took a lot of balls to make in that particular situation.

The Denver D is really good and the pass rush was outrageous, just 3? Thought there were 4-5 all the time but they were fast as hell off the ball. Kudos to them for being the difference in this matchup

The Pass rush was more than 3 most of the game. It was 4-5. The guys in the center were blowing it up too. But the two DEs just murdered the OTs. Actually Malik Jackson was a beast too. And yeah, they did rush three a couple times and had moderate success with that too. The ultimate key though is they did not have to blitz much. When a team does that, Brady usually carves them up. Same way the Giants won in 2007.

 

[intlzncster]

I said Denver deserved 1,000% of the credit and people shouldn't be BLAMING the o-line for the Pats losing. I don't care who you are, you're not going to rush/hit/drop Brady THAT MUCH even if you're facing blocking pads. Seriously. You won't. Regardless of what the Pats put out there, it was a heck of a job by their D-line. That's kind of the book on beating the Pats - but it's easier said than done.

The other reason I credit Denver's schemes and don't blame the o-line is that once the Denver secondary got dinged up and a bit winded late, Brady WAS getting off passes and moving the football in the last 8 minutes or so in spite of not much protection. I just don't think the O-Line was the difference maker. The Broncos defense - from its execution to its gameplan - was.



People are aware that their offensive line, when healthy is pretty good and that Deion Lewis is an outstanding RB, right?

I mean honestly if this team is healthy - maybe they add some depth to the line - but as is, they're hands-down the most complete team in the AFC easily, if not the entire NFL. It's not like they need a total overhaul or anything. And the scarier thing is they have plenty of options to add a big piece or two.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda - but had they stayed remotely healthy, this game would have been a complete and total walk over for them. Everyone sans Carolina probably would have been. They'll be back.

Well, the Pats felt the O line was a big issue, otherwise, I doubt they release their OL Coach the day after the game.

I realize this is kind of lame, as it's from my post right above this one, but since yours is all about the Oline, I'll just recopy for the sake of coherence:

The line had zero continuity throughout the year and just couldn't develop that necessary consistency and cohesiveness. From SB nation:

The Patriots have used 13 different starting offensive line combinations this season; that's more than any NFL team in more than two decades. Most of it was forced by injuries. They lost Nate Solder for the year after only four games. Five other regulars have missed time with injury this year as well. But what's even more impressive is that the line combinations didn't stop there. Head coach Bill Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels used a rotating cast of characters throughout games this season, making for 37 different blocking combinations, according to one count.​

As usual, it's a combination of both. It's not all one or the other. Denver's D played phenomenally. NE O did not. There's a variety of reasons for that, but at the end of the day Denver came out on top.

 

[Kitaman]

Then wtf are you reading the thread for? You are doing it to yourself. It's a non UCONN thread that features a team you don't care about. I suppose you are a masochist?

Living in CT of course I care. As for reading this thread there is some entertaining stuff in here. I can't believe some of the stuff being said or the crazy thoughts being expressed.

Either some Pats fans lost a lot of money or have become very depressed. Anyway it's a great read on a non game day. I should actually be thanking you and others.

 

[mauconnfan]

I worry for you. Being such a hater is bad for your soul.

Not a hater just really happy you're suffering enough to care about my replies, makes it all worth it Waq It really does

 

[upstater]

Botton line:

The Pats OLine was a mess, so were many others we get that, never good. But you got that far with it so no excuses. If the line was as bad as you say against everyone then the AFC is awful because you shouldn't have gotten there. Thing is Tom needs more time than ever but he is still really good. Edelman caught what 11 balls the week before or something so can't listen to him being hurt. Ground made one of the greatest plays on a ball coming from behind defenders with an advantage and getting to it - amazing last 2 catches. He helped Tom with the last TD because that was destined for pick 6 and instead ground was the best player in that area.

The Denver D is really good and the pass rush was outrageous, just 3? Thought there were 4-5 all the time but they were fast as hell off the ball. Kudos to them for being the difference in this matchup.

Doubt they will have the same success in a couple weeks, as a matter of fact a QB who can move all over the pocket and make plays won't give them a chance to send just 3. Whole different game for the Bronco's and the DB's and pass rush for the Panthers is going to ruin Peyton's chance to leave the game with a another SB title.

It's fair to say we know more about the Patriots line troubles.

Like, what happened earlier in the season may not have been as relevant even if they had a lot of trouble then too. Why? Because the LT was held out of the last games because of a high ankle sprain. The rookie starting guard Trey Jackson was out (i.e he wasn't out earlier).

This year, Brady needed less time, not more time than ever. He was moving in the pocket, and scrambling, better than I'd ever seen him. He had a fantastic season. He was rattled this game. He admitted he was rattled. But it's not like this was the best defense he ever faced. I'd definitely put Seattle for one ahead of it.

The biggest factor was the home field.

 

[Waquoit]

just really happy you're suffering

Yup, that's a Yankee fan for you.

 

[Deadrody]

I don't know if it was a fluke but the defense did not cause the "fumble" at all as it hopped around in front of Hillman for a couple seconds and it was all his if he was smart enough to figure it out. It was basically a fluke where an NFL player can't read a backwards pass, or call it what you want but they didn't "force it" for sure!

You should probably take that up with Phil Simms. Go watch the replay. The RB was in position to catch the ball, but pulled up instead because he would have been hammered on the play, much like a receiver that pulls up on a route over the middle.

I never said they "caused" the fumble. But the defensive pressure led to the play as it happened.

 

[Scoe]

Derek Wolfe is an beast, remember him from Cincy.