OT-Is Brady hurt?

[intlzncster]

Not saying that we can't discuss but the Pat's season is over.

The NFL is a year round business. The discussion never stops.

 

[upstater]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

While everything you say is true, we've seen Brady play with better poise in similar situations in the past. Although, I have to admit, he usually gets a breather every once in a while when the OL actually manages to pick up the rushers and he gets the time to make great throws. I still say they badly need an outside WR. Brady can make those 35 yard throws.

 

[noeynox]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

I agree with your overall point, but there was nothing McDaniel could have done. Brady was under duress as soon as he got the ball. Cannon was just that bad Sunday.

 

[intlzncster]

While everything you say is true, we've seen Brady play with better poise in similar situations in the past. Although, I have to admit, he usually gets a breather every once in a while when the OL actually manages to pick up the rushers and he gets the time to make great throws. I still say they badly need an outside WR. Brady can make those 35 yard throws.

Absolutely. I (and many Pats fans) have been crying for a deep threat for years. Just look at his performances when you given him a Randy Moss on the back 9 of his career.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree with your overall point, but there was nothing McDaniel could have done. Brady was under duress as soon as he got the ball. Cannon was just that bad Sunday.

There was no magic fix, I'll grant you, given the OL issues. Right Tackle, both Cannon and Fleming, was a turnstile all day long. Vollmer struggled at LT, limited by his high ankle sprain.

McDaniels should have mixed in more screens and quick slants/curls to keep the D more honest. He should have called more edge runs (White/Bolden/Amendola/Edelman) with guys like Shaq Mason (very good at that) pulling, in order to catch DEs overplaying. Instead, he resolutely ran it up the gut for the inevitable half yard gain. Something that didn't keep the DEs honest whatsoever.

I'm not saying it would have been foolproof, but mix it up.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agree. But my point was that playing poorly is a result of simply having no time to make reads in the first place. He barely had enough time for one read. Brady is one of the top 2 or 3 guys in the league statistically terms of getting rid of the ball quickly. When they are playing well, he's the quickest. It's impossible to throw when guys are hitting you in under 2 seconds--you can barely make your first read, as was the case during the game. The Pats didn't adjust in play calling as a result of this, and that is on McDaniels. He's not getting fired though.

And yes, home field was huge. Bigger than I anticipated. At the time, I was happy they were playing to manage injuries against Miami. But I'm really disappointed in retro spect that they didn't go all out against Miami.

They should have just played Jimmy in Miami. They would have won going away.

As for adjustments, I was disappointed in Josh and Bill. Where the heck was Michael Williams? Why wasn't he camped out next to Fleming once Cannon was out? He was brought in to play precisely that role and they didn't use him. It made no sense at all.

 

[superjohn]

The OT was a shambles but Brady played poorly. There is no doubt. He didn't go through he usual reads and several times he threw into coverage or threw the ball away when someone else was open. Had the Patriots made an effort to win in Miami, they would be at home, and the Bronco's pass rush would not have been able to tee off against a silent snap count. Many things went into the loss on Sunday...many things. That's why I was frustrated by it, the Patriots definitely should have won the game.

Broncos should have won by two touchdowns, final score shouldn't have been that close.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Broncos should have won by two touchdowns, final score shouldn't have been that close.

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him. The Broncos offense was nonexistent in the second half. The Pats had a combined 120 yard drive in the second half that yielded 0 points. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some one sided affair.

If you pressure a QB on 70% of his drop backs and knock him down 20+ times he's going to have a tough time.

 

[StoweD210]

They had 47 minutes to overcome the missed PAT. This was on the O-line, which was terrible.
It's also on Brady, who--for some reason I can't figure out, even having watched the replay about 25 times--didn't loft the ball to Gronk on the 2-point try. He had broken open and could have caught the ball with one hand.

Matt Chatham had a good breakdown of the play:



The short version is, Denver called a defense that confused Brady pre-snap about the coverage on Gronkowski, covered his next option and got pressure to prevent him from finding a better option. It was a very good defensive call by Denver, and pretty much what they did all game.

 

[superjohn]

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him. The Broncos offense was nonexistent in the second half. The Pats had a combined 120 yard drive in the second half that yielded 0 points. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some one sided affair.

If you pressure a QB on 70% of his drop backs and knock him down 20+ times he's going to have a tough time.

Nope, never dated Gisele. I just thought Denver dominated that game from the opening tip. Manning missed a couple of wide open touchdowns and Brady had a bunch of chances. Normally when he and that offense get that many chances they win. My point is the game should have been put away by Denver earlier.

 

[tzznandrew]

Nope, never dated Gisele. I just thought Denver dominated that game from the opening tip. Manning missed a couple of wide open touchdowns and Brady had a bunch of chances. Normally when he and that offense get that many chances they win. My point is the game should have been put away by Denver earlier.

Again: Manning missing touchdowns is what post-surgery Manning does. I don't think it factors into our "what-ifs" in the same way missing a PAT does when he hasn't missed one since 2006.

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know if Brady stole your girl (true story: my buddy's wife _____ Brady at UM, he's both proud and horrified) but you lose your mind when it comes to him.

 

[superjohn]

Again: Manning missing touchdowns is what post-surgery Manning does. I don't think it factors into our "what-ifs" in the same way missing a PAT does when he hasn't missed one since 2006.

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

I don't play that game, Gostkowski missed an extra point in the first quarter and Denver basically handed the Patriots a touchdown on the backwards pass where the running back didn't go for the ball. The point is Denver outplayed the Patriots and the better team that day won.

 

[intlzncster]

Denver outplayed the hell out of New England. New England still had a shot despite being outplayed, and it would have been an OT game if Gostowski hits a PAT.

I'd caveat that with saying that Denver D outplayed Patriots O. The Patriots D played really well against Denver. They were constantly stuck with crap field position. Surrendered the 2nd TD, when Denver took over on the Pats 20. Gave up only 3pts in the second half. Still gave the Offense plenty of chances to win it.

There's really only 2 plays they'd like to have back: 1. Total blown coverage on the first TD by (I assume) Collins. 2. Manning's 13 yard scamper, than Logan Ryan totally botched coming back on late.

Also, the gameplan to start the game was far too soft. Playing off receivers (respecting the deep threat against THIS manning?) and allowing Manning to get into a rhythm on intermediate routes. Crap plan there.

Denver D line won it, and Pats O line lost it.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't play that game, Gostkowski missed an extra point in the first quarter and Denver basically handed the Patriots a touchdown on the backwards pass where the running back didn't go for the ball. The point is Denver outplayed the Patriots and the better team that day won.

I'm not sure why when it happened really matters. I'm not arguing who the better team was.

Who was the better team? Denver.

A Gostowski extra point doesn't change that. But it sends the game to OT where the team being outplayed had a shot to steal a game.

 

[superjohn]

I'm not sure why when it happened really matters. I'm not arguing who the better team was.

Who was the better team? Denver.

A Gostowski extra point doesn't change that. But it sends the game to OT where the team being outplayed had a shot to steal a game.

No it doesn't send the game into OT, it happened in the first quarter. He only had the opportunity to kick an extra point because Broncos gave them the ball with a really short field on a boneheaded play.

 

[tzznandrew]

No it doesn't send the game into OT, it happened in the first quarter. He only had the opportunity to kick an extra point because Broncos gave them the ball with a really short field on a boneheaded play.

I don't understand your argument here.

What does one have to do with the other?

The missed PAT literally changes nothing (has nothing to do with field position, for instance) except what the Pats did after the score.

And if he made the PAT, the Pats kick a PAT and a coin flip may nor may not change the outcome.

But the Denver D was better than the Pats O. Despite that, the Pats came way closer than they should have to eking out a win...and would have been even closer if Gostowski hit a PAT.

 

[FartMan69]

Utter nonsense according to you. The 3 QB's I mentioned (Wilson, Ben and Rodgers) are all decidedly better at extending the play and throwing outside the pocket when rushed. Brady did none of that yesterday.

Maybe Brady would trade a couple rings for better foot speed. Or maybe he can continue what in your case sounds like a mediocre skill set. I bet he wish he had half the success as your aforementioned QB's.

 

[Deadrody]

And really they got gifted their first TD off a fluke play on the backward pass. Brady was feeling the heat all day and when you get hit 23 times in a game, you get gun shy and feel the pressure even when it's not there and try to get rid of the ball more quickly than you might actually have to in anticipation of the rush.

How is that a "fluke play" ??

It was a screen pass to the RB in the left flat. Yeah, the pass went backwards, though it surely wasn't designed to. The entire play happened the way it did because of defensive pressure. The defense hurried the play, the pressure made Manning throw it earlier than he wanted to, and because of the defensive pressure on the outside, the RB had not gone far enough downfield to make the throw a forward pass, and then because the defender was right there to clobber the RB if he had made the catch, he pulled up and let it fall to the ground.

There was nothing "fluke" about it.

 

[FartMan69]

Nothing beats watching other teams lose, I guess.

I don't understand why every single Giant fan missed their game last week to see the Pats, Denver game. Or maybe i do.

 

[Deadrody]

While everything you say is true, we've seen Brady play with better poise in similar situations in the past. Although, I have to admit, he usually gets a breather every once in a while when the OL actually manages to pick up the rushers and he gets the time to make great throws. I still say they badly need an outside WR. Brady can make those 35 yard throws.

Brady did get a few breathers, but invariably, because of the near constant pressure, he was in a hurry to get rid of the ball even on the few ocassions when he didn't have to be.

Contrast that with Manning who took 2 or 3 horrific sacks running away from the LOS when he could have thrown the ball away.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not sure why when it happened really matters. I'm not arguing who the better team was.

Who was the better team? Denver.

A Gostowski extra point doesn't change that. But it sends the game to OT where the team being outplayed had a shot to steal a game.

Denver played about 95% as well as they are capable of. New England played at about 40% of what they are capable of. The results are the results. The better team lost. The Patriots didn't make the plays when needed, Denver made the plays. It happens. But the Patriots should have won by at least 10 with a halfway decent performance.

 

[HuskyHawk]

How is that a "fluke play" ??

It was a screen pass to the RB in the left flat. Yeah, the pass went backwards, though it surely wasn't designed to. The entire play happened the way it did because of defensive pressure. The defense hurried the play, the pressure made Manning throw it earlier than he wanted to, and because of the defensive pressure on the outside, the RB had not gone far enough downfield to make the throw a forward pass, and then because the defender was right there to clobber the RB if he had made the catch, he pulled up and let it fall to the ground.

There was nothing "fluke" about it.

It was less of a fluke than Brady's first interception. That was just horrific decision making, highly unusual from him. It wasn't pressure either, he had time and hadn't yet been battered.

 

[Jerry1714]

Denver played about 95% as well as they are capable of. New England played at about 40% of what they are capable of. The results are the results. The better team lost. The Patriots didn't make the plays when needed, Denver made the plays. It happens. But the Patriots should have won by at least 10 with a halfway decent performance.

Denver and NE played twice this year and Denver won twice. Just like the Giants beat the Pats twice in 2011. But in both cases every Pats will tell you the Pats were the better team. Go figure, I thought scoring more points than the other team was actually important, guess not.

 

[superjohn]

Denver played about 95% as well as they are capable of. New England played at about 40% of what they are capable of. The results are the results. The better team lost. The Patriots didn't make the plays when needed, Denver made the plays. It happens. But the Patriots should have won by at least 10 with a halfway decent performance.

You are the type of Patriots fan that gives their fanbase a bad name. You sound ridiculous.