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OT - Giants

nomar said:
Got them to the 1-yard line. Holding.

Great throw to Marshall, drop. Next play: Detroit TD.

Hits Vereen who forgot where the marker was.

Great throw to Engram, can't hold on.

All with an inarguably horrendous line. And terrible play calling.

Wasn't a great game for him but he was out there trying to make things happen.
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Of course he was "trying to make things happen", I'd be ashamed if he wasn't. But I can name plays he made that had an equally negative effect.

We get a sack fumble, all the momentum going for us; immediately throws a pick.

Has time in the pocket (rare) and waits around for a sack.

Gets sacked, but was touched by maybe a fingertip.

Changing the play multiple times to inside draws that haven't worked like ever.

Very rarely leads receivers, so slim to no chance for YAC.
 
champs99and04 said:
Running the ball there was stupid in a vacuum, but I thought that was Eli checking out of the play because he didn't want to keep taking hits. He took a shot there, earlier in that same drive I think, on that miracle throw where it looked like he just avoided serious injury. Dude is as tough as they come but I can't blame him for being a little bit shaken after that one.

The coaching is the biggest problem right now, though. To allow Flowers to go one on one against the Detroit end the entire first half was suicide - they needed to transition to quicker reads way sooner than they did. You're not going to win with long-developing routes against this make-shift line with any quarterback, much less one that struggles to buy time with his feet like Eli does. Game management (the way they handled the end of the half, the delay of game call, bizarre play calling in a fire drill situation late, etc.) wasn't much better. There are a lot of people who know more football than me, but it seems like an antiquated approach in a lot of ways.
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It's a strange time to decide you've taken enough shots. If he's doesn't want to take shots on this team he should go ahead and retire tonight because otherwise he is in for a long season.
 
whaler11 said:
His claim that it was 'great coaching' for Caldwell to challenge the spot that got overturned was beyond ridiculous. It was obviously not even close to a first down in real time - anyone with access to a television knew this.

I enjoyed remeasuring after the changed spot.
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Best part was the "we will re-spot the ball and re-measure" when the updated spot was clearly a half yard shy of where the marker was.
 
McAdoo said the delay of game was 'sloppy quarterback play'.

This season is going to be a tirefire.
 
champs99and04 said:
Best part was the "we will re-spot the ball and re-measure" when the updated spot was clearly a half yard shy of where the marker was.
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I enjoyed that the Giants offense and Lions defense stayed on the field until after they remeasured. That was totally necessary.
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
Yeah, how about just don't even try to go for it there, Eli probably did us a favor by getting the delay of game call.
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I'd be impressed if he did it on purpose. Sure it's going to look like a Yankees season from the early Steinbrenner years but it could get entertaining at least.
 
nomar said:
Got them to the 1-yard line. Holding.

Great throw to Marshall, drop. Next play: Detroit TD.

Hits Vereen who forgot where the marker was.

Great throw to Engram, can't hold on.

All with an inarguably horrendous line. And terrible play calling.

Wasn't a great game for him but he was out there trying to make things happen.
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Pretty simple nomar. Not sure what others see. Oh wait yes I do.......what they want to see.

Teams not real good without key components like Jenkins, Goodson and a healthy Beckham but wouldn't matter the GM and coaches fell and are falling short.
 
mauconnfan said:
Pretty simple nomar. Not sure what others see.
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We haven't scored over 20 points in 8(!!!!) straight games dude, 13 total points in the first two games, 1 touchdown. If you are content with how he is playing, that's impressive.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
We haven't scored over 20 points in 8(!!!!) straight games dude, 13 total points in the first two games, 1 touchdown. If you are content with how he is playing, that's impressive.
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If you think he's the reason they only got 10 tonight then you're unimpressive.

We won't agree so let's not waste each other's time.
 
whaler11 said:
It's a strange time to decide you've taken enough shots. If he's doesn't want to take shots on this team he should go ahead and retire tonight because otherwise he is in for a long season.
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I don't think there is anything strange about deciding to check into a run play seconds after being bent like a pretzel by two turbo-size human beings. It's an accumulation thing, so while I take your point that this sort of thing is part of the job description, I don't necessarily think the poor clock management down the stretch had much to do with anything other than self-preservation. And he's going to need to continue to do that to make it through the season, so get you're griping about 20 carries for 45 yards against Philadelphia on Sunday out of the way now.

I think all of the run plays in the second half were as much about Eli needing a minute as they were logic and reason. Granted time management has been a problem in the past, so I can understand the skepticism, but he took a beating tonight like I haven't seen him take in a while and he isn't getting any younger.
 
mauconnfan said:
If you think he's the reason they only got 10 tonight then you're unimpressive.

We won't agree so let's not waste each other's time.
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I don't! I've said that, no one made plays, the offensive line is always bad, Mcadoo is not the right OC for what we have, and we really struggled to tackle, mainly DRC, but Eli is just as culpable, he makes what should be routine plays often not. It's whatever, maybe we turn it around, maybe we don't.
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
Of course he was "trying to make things happen", I'd be ashamed if he wasn't. But I can name plays he made that had an equally negative effect.

We get a sack fumble, all the momentum going for us; immediately throws a pick.

Has time in the pocket (rare) and waits around for a sack.

Gets sacked, but was touched by maybe a fingertip.

Changing the play multiple times to inside draws that haven't worked like ever.

Very rarely leads receivers, so slim to no chance for YAC.
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That pick wasn't really his fault. Engram tried to be Beckham and it didn't work out.

He always goes down easy. That's Eli.

How many of those draws were his calls?

As for YAC, are you criticizing him in general or based on tonight? Eli's receivers haven't had problems breaking off big plays.

I'm not saying he had a good game but if you gave him a decent O-line and an average running back I think you'd see he really hasn't taken a step back. I still see him making the throws he needs to make. He was never a great QB, just a good one who plays well in the clutch. He always threw ducks and had brain farts.

He's playing with one above-average skill player, total. Who's awesome but not even healthy. And a garbage line.

Surround him with talent and he fails and then we'll know he's done.
 
Well 0-16 worked for the Lions it got them a clean slate with a new front office and a franchise qb, maybe thats what the Giants need, and I'm not saying Eli is the problem because he's not (although he does have his flaws) he needs an oline and he doesn't have much time its amazing he hasn't missed any games (so far).
 
champs99and04 said:
I don't think there is anything strange about deciding to check into a run play seconds after being bent like a pretzel by two turbo-size human beings. It's an accumulation thing, so while I take your point that this sort of thing is part of the job description, I don't necessarily think the poor clock management down the stretch had much to do with anything other than self-preservation. And he's going to need to continue to do that to make it through the season, so get you're griping about 20 carries for 45 yards against Philadelphia on Sunday out of the way now.

I think all of the run plays in the second half were as much about Eli needing a minute as they were logic and reason. Granted time management has been a problem in the past, so I can understand the skepticism, but he took a beating tonight like I haven't seen him take in a while and he isn't getting any younger.
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If this is true it's a pretty pathetic state of affairs.

Yeah I guess it's weird to gripe that a team that has a ton of firepower and can't run the ball kills all their drives on counter-productive runs. Let's run that clock out so we can get Eli home and in bed sooner. Who cares if the season is on the brink of complete disaster.
 
nomar said:
That pick wasn't really his fault. Engram tried to be Beckham and it didn't work out.

He always goes down easy. That's Eli.

How many of those draws were his calls?

As for YAC, are you criticizing him in general or based on tonight? Eli's receivers haven't had problems breaking off big plays.

I'm not saying he had a good game but if you gave him a decent O-line and an average running back I think you'd see he really hasn't taken a step back. I still see him making the throws he needs to make. He was never a great QB, just a good one who plays well in the clutch. He always threw ducks and had brain farts.

He's playing with one above-average skill player, total. Who's awesome but not even healthy. And a garbage line.

Surround him with talent and he fails and then we'll know he's done.
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Fair enough on most points, we see it slightly differently, but that pick was his fault completely. The recievers reactions are to attempt to catch the ball, it was behind him so he tried to make a tough play. But if he doesn't tip it, it would've gotten picked off too, so can't fault Engram.
 
Well..this was a very unenjoyable game and my hair will take some time to grow back!! I will say that when Eli did have some time to throw he made some decent plays. the problem is the O line is atrocious and Flowers< I believe was a first round draft choice..Yikes!!! eli is not a mobile quarterback and with this line he is toast on most plays. I am in the camp of Reese being out the door along with most of the coaches except for Spags. Dallas had their head handed to them last night 42-17 by Denver that makes the loss to the Lions look doubly worse. I just didn't see any fire in the team tonight and every play looked like slow mo. eli goes back to pass and without even a pass rush he is pre-cringing. Not addressing the O line problem from last year is unacceptable. these guys couldn't block my grandma. I don't see how this team improves because the Lions are not the greatest team by a longshot.
 
Jerry Reese and McAdoo basically called out Eli over the offseason by making comments like "It wasn't all the offensive lines fault" and by just not going out and getting him any help on the line. I really believe that Reese and McAdoo think the line is pretty good and that Eli is the issue.
So while I don't believe Eli is the issue, maybe Reese and McAdoo should push all their chips into the middle of the table and make a QB change and see how smart they really are.
 
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Huskygamble19 said:
Well..this was a very unenjoyable game and my hair will take some time to grow back!! I will say that when Eli did have some time to throw he made some decent plays. the problem is the O line is atrocious and Flowers< I believe was a first round draft choice..Yikes!!! eli is not a mobile quarterback and with this line he is toast on most plays. I am in the camp of Reese being out the door along with most of the coaches except for Spags. Dallas had their head handed to them last night 42-17 by Denver that makes the loss to the Lions look doubly worse. I just didn't see any fire in the team tonight and every play looked like slow mo. eli goes back to pass and without even a pass rush he is pre-cringing. Not addressing the O line problem from last year is unacceptable. these guys couldn't block my grandma. I don't see how this team improves because the Lions are not the greatest team by a longshot.
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Absolutly sickening, I think winning the 2011 Super Bowl made Reese more foolish. They saw Eli winning a Super Bowl behind an inferior line most notably the NFC title game vs that 49er D and they thought Eli was fine with the line and of course the line got worse as Eli is getting older.
 
NC_Uconn_Fan said:
The oline is bad, I do not think anyone who watches football can argue that. They cannot pass protect or run block, they can't do either, it's sad. You cannot simply pass every down.
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They try to run just because and that's sickening. I mean it's beyond pitiful knowing you can't run yet McAdoo decided to call run-run-pass while down 2 TD's, not sure how in hell he can do that. At that point of the game you can't be trying to establish the run can you? LOL. He came out predictable as usual, fullback comes out and they hand it off for nothing. I was really hoping they'd just throw the ball long first play get the crowd fired up but he's a very robotic coach. Then they have a series which made you wonder who was calling the play couple fakes and a flip end around to Sheppard, a roll out and throw to Ellison, quick slants and bingo. But then it goes away again? He's a strange guy - I think there's such an arrogant in him that when they boo him he's going to do in spite of the crowd, he's awful thus far and needs to relinquish the play calling and coach the team. Maybe if he wasn't worried about the offense he would have called the time out at halftime to give them a shot at a FG at least rather than watch 35 seconds run off the clock before the Lions FG. Real good coach when he has 3 time outs in his pocket walking in the tunnel.

Huge trouble this team has no shot of making a run too many issues. It will help make some changes at least, not sure what they are but Reese can't possibly keep his job the Beckham pick is now history. He and McAdoo decided to keep the Eli machine going yet didn't address the OLine so both heads are on the chopping block. I doubt they believe Gino is the answer so it's time to address the QB, Reese thought Nassibb was the answer for a while. LBers, I mean Thurman Munson as your back up LBer? I mean listen the guy was ok but he's slow as hell can't check a TE never mind help with wideouts and that's your back up for Goodson who himself was a first year starter? The way Marshall has started the season he will be the death of Reese himself and Ingram, as you heard from Chuckie has a long way to go can't block worth crap.

You have to think that with many of the guru's thinking the Giants were a player for the NFC champs, the front office will not be happy at all with what they see and it starts with the HC and the guy who gives him the players he desires like it or not. I doubt one of those guys lasts the season.
 
What a GREAT start to the day, opening this thread and reading all the NY whining. Happy Tuesday everyone!!
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Fair enough on most points, we see it slightly differently, but that pick was his fault completely. The recievers reactions are to attempt to catch the ball, it was behind him so he tried to make a tough play. But if he doesn't tip it, it would've gotten picked off too, so can't fault Engram.
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Just watched a replay of the pick; you're right. Maybe it wouldn't have gotten picked if Engram didn't deflect it (although the DB was right there) but it was a bad pass and not EE's fault.
 
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