OT:. El Tigre with the DUI

[UChusky916]

Looks about right for a DUI mug shot.

You know he's going to say the meds from his back had a bad interaction with the alcohol (Conveniently ignoring the meds say not to mix with alcohol).


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On point with that call, Chin:

 

[Tuna]

How so?

1. That the media created the hype around Tiger and that it wasn't 100% earned.
2. That Tiger couldn't handle the pressure.
3. That you could possibly understand the psyche of Tiger in order to claim he couldn't handle the pressure.
4. That Jack is "golf" but Tiger isn't.

 

[Ha Who]

I definitely agree that the very top was better in the Jack era as compared to 1990-2005, but the depth in the top 35 was better and depth in the top 100 was insanely better in 2015 than it was in 1975 or 1985 or 1965. Top 10 maybe not.

Anyone trying to say Tiger was a media creation or a product of his era is a flat out idiot (I know you are not but others seem to be)

He was a media creation as far as they called him the greatest of all time and said he would surpass the major record forgetting about the mental nature of golf longevity

 

[mauconnfan]

He was a media creation as far as they called him the greatest of all time and said he would surpass the major record forgetting about the mental nature of golf longevity

The mental nature of golf longevity? It's mental that he's had numerous knee and back surgeries? I mean please, if he stayed healthy he was going to surpass Jack and fairly easily there is little doubt about that. They had a right to call him " the greatest of all time" at the moment I mean he was easily the most dominant. Now that his injuries and indiscretions have caught up there's an argument, but certainly not an argument for longevity he's done there.

 

[nycscooby]

Jack had WAY tougher competition. Anyone that doesn't see that doesn't know golf. Arnie, Watson, Trevino, Player, etc won way more majors than anyone in Tiger's era. Plus Jack had something like 19 runners up in majors. Tigers talent was special, but he flamed out too soon. Jack's mental game was way better for way longer and that's why he's the greatest.

You would have to compare how many different majors winners there were during their prime years to get a sense of in which era the field was stronger. I am guessing Tiger's. Tiger also played globally so you can't discount the travel and the off course demands for #1 were much more for Tiger than Jack. Ultimately, it is how you define greatest, longevity and number of majors? Or dominance. I do think that in their primes having Jack and Tiger square off, Tiger wins the vast majority of the time so for me that settles the question.

 

[Ha Who]

1. That the media created the hype around Tiger and that it wasn't 100% earned.
2. That Tiger couldn't handle the pressure.
3. That you could possibly understand the psyche of Tiger in order to claim he couldn't handle the pressure.
4. That Jack is "golf" but Tiger isn't.

Tiger was golf for a ten year period. He was awesome. Just not the greatest of all time

 

[Ha Who]

The mental nature of golf longevity? It's mental that he's had numerous knee and back surgeries? I mean please, if he stayed healthy he was going to surpass Jack and fairly easily there is little doubt about that. They had a right to call him " the greatest of all time" at the moment I mean he was easily the most dominant. Now that his injuries and indiscretions have caught up there's an argument, but certainly not an argument for longevity he's done there.

Case closed. I agree he was dominant for a decade. Injuries are part of the game. Whether it was injuries that totally led to his decline is debatable. The mental side plays a role and very well may have in this case. I'm no Tiger or even a futures candidate, but I was once dominating a friend of mine. We got to a 190 yard par 3. He took out his putter and put it 3 inches from the hole. I was never the same when competing with him. So to say it was 100 percent injuries is taking a big leap. Even if it was, he is automatically precluded from being the greatest.

 

[Waquoit]

On one hand, I feel a bit sorry for Tiger. He reminds me of Elvis. They were both massive celebrities but had no friends. But this "no alcohol was involved" mea culpa is embarrassing. He was under the influence of drugs and driving erratically. Who cares if booze was or wasn't involved? Like his transgression wasn't as bad as someone driving fine that would blow a .085.

It's bad enough that the illegal BAC level is so low. Not like in 60's when men were men. I was watching an old Perry Mason from 1961.
Perry was questioning the coroner and asked, "Had the decedent been drinking when he was killed?"
"Yes"
"What was his blood alcohol level"
".15, Approaching intoxication"

 

[Excalibur]

The mental nature of golf longevity? It's mental that he's had numerous knee and back surgeries? I mean please, if he stayed healthy he was going to surpass Jack and fairly easily there is little doubt about that. They had a right to call him " the greatest of all time" at the moment I mean he was easily the most dominant. Now that his injuries and indiscretions have caught up there's an argument, but certainly not an argument for longevity he's done there.

If the stories are to be believed, many of his injuries were due to his crazy obsession with SEAL-style military training. So let's not pretend that there isn't a mental element to his downfall. There is.

 

[Excalibur]

Longevity obviously as one was/is injured.

Tiger won 79 of 313 starts. 25%
Jack won 73 of 586 starts. 12%
He won 14 of 69 starts in majors 20%
Jack was 18 0f 120 starts 15% (he played in some at an older age so they are very comparable in majors without the longevity factor)
Tiger was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd in 40% of his starts.
Jack was 25%.
While some believe Jack had tougher competition I don't believe when you bring the Euro's, South Africans and others into the game as much as Tiger saw them that it can be close. Tiger also won 18 World Golf Championships which included some of the best fields.

One is great the other was dominant. Both are golf!!

Your point about Jack playing at an older age applies to all of these comparisons.

 

[CL82]

I'm with Chin, how could you ever end up driving even with 1 or 2 beers in you with 500M in the bank? Really stupid on his part.

Love Tiger, he made golf and it kind of sucks without him honestly but he needs to straighten his life out at least because that may be all he has left.

Uh, Tiger?

You're welcome.

 

[Danzz]

Your point about Jack playing at an older age applies to all of these comparisons.

Tiger won a lot of his tournaments wire to wire. He didn't do nearly as well coming from behind. Jack was a pressure player. Tiger not so much. Both are kind of nasty people.
As far as Tiger's DWI who knows whether it was meds or alcohol but he did get arrested at 3 AM. It was irresponsible for sure but how many of us have been in the same condition and didn't get caught?

 

[Jerry1714]

He was a media creation as far as they called him the greatest of all time and said he would surpass the major record forgetting about the mental nature of golf longevity

Just stop, this is a awful and just inaccurate take. And its not your first in this thread.

 

[uconngb]

Typical response from you. Lol .... thanks for naming 4 guys and the etc group that's proof you know golf and I dont. Lots of Euros were over here then huh? Parity is a beautiful thing.

Again this is up for grabs as an argument but to say "anyone that doesn't see that doesn't know golf" is ignorant. Well go figure.

Those 4 combined for over 25 majors. Name me 4 players from Tiger's era that did that. You can't. That's my point you dope. I didn't just name "4 guys". I named 4 guys that won multiple majors while Jack was in his prime. Tiger had nobody like that to contend with in his prime. All of which shows that I was right....you DON'T know golf.

 

[Ha Who]

Just stop, this is a awful and just inaccurate take. And its not your first in this thread.[/QUOTE

That is your reply? This is the 24 hour ratings driven era. I'm not saying he wasn't great, just not the greatest. The media jumped on this and crowned him too early. He was also a great story who doesn't want to give it to the rich white country club types? I sure love to take them down a notch any chance I get

 

[Excalibur]

Jack was almost 40 when Watson entered his prime. People forget Tiger was the best player in the world until 2013, a year he won five times. The depth on tour at that time was light years ahead of the 1960-1980s (Adam Scott, Justin Rose, Phil Mickelson, and Jason Dufner won the majors and Stenson won the FedEx in 2013). It is not even debatable. Yes Player, Trevino, and Arnie were all time players, but Vijah, Els, Sergio, Phil, Goosen, Langer, ect. were not slouches.

I think the tour was/is deeper in Tiger's era, but the top players of Jack's era were better.

 

[Scottzer]

The mental nature of golf longevity? It's mental that he's had numerous knee and back surgeries? I mean please, if he stayed healthy he was going to surpass Jack and fairly easily there is little doubt about that. They had a right to call him " the greatest of all time" at the moment I mean he was easily the most dominant. Now that his injuries and indiscretions have caught up there's an argument, but certainly not an argument for longevity he's done there.

The one thing that I'm not aware of re: Jack is whether or not courses were redesigned to "Jack Proof" them. It certainly seems unlikely that Tiger wins another, but you never know. jack won his last major at 46, and a few years ago a circa 70 year old Tom Watson was in contention for the British Open. Again, it's dubious with how he's played lately, but the odds wouldn't have suggested Jack or Tom's play during those two events.
Now, let's say Tiger Proofing courses cost him 1 or 2 majors. If he's one or two short of Jack, that's still short. But, it makes that stretch of dominance that much more impressive. Hell - the Tiger Slam was insane. Has the equivalent been accomplished in the men's tennis game? ...a sport that historically sees a greater level of domination by the top for short durations?

 

[mauconnfan]

Those 4 combined for over 25 majors. Name me 4 players from Tiger's era that did that. You can't. That's my point you dope. I didn't just name "4 guys". I named 4 guys that won multiple majors while Jack was in his prime. Tiger had nobody like that to contend with in his prime. All of which shows that I was right....you DON'T know golf.

They won those because the rest of the guys sucked no parity, no Euro's. Congrats you know golf, you're hilarious.

Who ha, Ex all worth talking to, you once again prove you're not. But you're an entertaining little twerp.

 

[Jerry1714]

How am I suppose to give a serious and detailed reply to someone who says Tiger was a media creation and failed to live up to the labels he was given because he was not mentally tough enough?

It is honestly the most inaccurate and stupid post you could put out there. You either know nothing about golf, and/or simply just do not like Tiger, there is no other way to explain your take.

 

[mauconnfan]

I think the tour was/is deeper in Tiger's era, but the top players of Jack's era were better.

Agree on this. The Mickelson's, Singh's, Els, Duvals were all really good but not like Palmer, Player, Trevino. But no doubt the tour was much deeper when Tiger was playing and there were a number of potential winners every weekend playing in those 150 player fields unlike the 50's to 80's. But guys like that won a lot less because of the parity also and the Euro invasion.

 

[UChusky916]

 

[mauconnfan]

Tiger was golf for a ten year period. He was awesome. Just not the greatest of all time

basically 14 years take out '10-'11 I believe. He won 2 in '96 and in '13 won 5. Definitely not as long as Jack but still a great run while healthy. The greatest for 14 years yes, for longevity no.

 

[Waquoit]

No one ever docked Jim Brown points for longevity.

 

[Scoe]

I wonder if Earl Woods passing had a lot to do with Tiger's unraveling. I believe his father had a lot to do with keeping Tiger focused on his career.

 

[Jerry1714]

I wonder if Earl Woods passing had a lot to do with Tiger's unraveling. I believe his father had a lot to do with keeping Tiger focused on his career.

Do you think his dad's passing lead to him having four back surgery's and two ACL surgery's? The last two years Tiger was healthy he finished 1st and 2nd on the money list.