OT: Boston Marathon Bombing Suspects

[upstater]

High school classmates are speaking about the guy still at large, they've been in the USA for a long time, he had a lot of friends, was popular and nice.

So this gets screwed up even more.

 

[Danzz]

So, now they're not even Chechnyan. They are from Kyrgyzstan. That's much more Eastern than Chechnya. Essentially, it's a country buffering the ex-USSR from China. So, lots of Russians and Europeans (30%) and minority Central Asians (Uzebks and Ughurs who are the group challenging the Chinese in that region inside China), while the rest are ethnic Kyrghiz (Turkic people) comprising about 60-65%.

Muslims comprise 80% of the population, 17% Christian, but there is no radicalization of the kind you see in Georgia (Christian) or Chechnya (Muslim). Furthermore, Europeans have tended to emigrate from the country (mainly to Germany) while the country becomes increasingly Kyrghiz and Muslim. In other words, the people who leave the country for other countries tend to be European and Christian. If you see what most Kyrghiz people look like, they have Mongolian and Asian features, while the two bombers look European. That's a generalization of course, but that's how it breaks down.

It's so complicated that it would be near impossible to do any justice to this. Chechnya obviously was not a religious resistance. It was your prototypical liberation movement, just like Georgia/Abkazia directly to the east. You had a conflict there too that looked like Chechnya. These are post-Soviet liberation revolutions, and the religious makeup of the people (Christians in Georgia, Muslims in Chechnya) is only relevant after the fact (i.e. once the people become radicalized, only then is religion used as a recruitment tool). Just like Bosnia and Kosovo, strife created an opening for Muslim fundamentalists to recruit--but the Christian side was recruiting thugs there too. Religion simply seems to be a tool used for power in these countries, rather than the thing that creates differences in the first place. It's the same as Iraq. Sectarian strife, not religious strife.

Isn't it ironic that all religions teach moral conduct yet millions have been killed in the name of religion? Religion used as a tool for power goes back centuries.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Chechnya used to be heavily into "Sufi" Islam (the school of thought I follow) before Wahhabi money crept in and corrupted the youth with propaganda. There's a tload of people in the US who are not Muslims (neo-Nazis, patriots, apocalyptic Christians, etc) and waiting to cause damage. They certainly outnumber Wahhabis.

Butch, appreciate the open minded posts on this topic. Just curious on your view, as I have long believed that we need to do something to cause a shift in the Saudi Royal's continuing support for and funding of the Wahhabi movement. They fund schools in Germany (replacing those run by Turkish emigres for the most part) and everywhere else it seems. It's a bad cycle and it really seems to come from S.A., supposedly our best buddy in the region.

 

[Adios]

Screw the media. How about we pay homage to the at least 35 killed in the factory explosion? I hope they have it better now.

 

[Adios]

Butch, appreciate the open minded posts on this topic. Just curious on your view, as I have long believed that we need to do something to cause a shift in the Saudi Royal's continuing support for and funding of the Wahhabi movement. They fund schools in Germany (replacing those run by Turkish emigres for the most part) and everywhere else it seems. It's a bad cycle and it really seems to come from S.A., supposedly our best buddy in the region.

Eradication of the propaganda. There's no other solution. Muslims have been trying for so long to wake Wahhabis up but they are so caught up in an image of purity and self-righteousness.

 

[upstater]

OK, so, in my neck of the woods. Black Nissan with Mass. plates just pulled over near the Rainbow bridge crossing into Canada in Niagara Falls. They were all driving from MIT campus. 2 Russian Nationals arrested, 4 backpacks.

 

[SubbaBub]

Isn't it ironic that all religions teach moral conduct yet millions have been killed in the name of religion? Religion used as a tool for power goes back centuries.

Muslim extremists are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity. I learned that while watching The West Wing.

So if you are a macho he-man looking to punch a muslim in the throat this weekend for no good reason, any christian would suffice as a substitute.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[upstater]

Isn't it ironic that all religions teach moral conduct yet millions have been killed in the name of religion? Religion used as a tool for power goes back centuries.

Yes indeed.

 

[Adios]

People will always find a reason to kill. Root of all "evil" is love for the ego. And here we are on a site that praises egos. That's ironic, as well.

 

[CL82]

People will always find a reason to kill. Root of all "evil" is love for the ego. And here we are on a site that praises egos. That's ironic, as well.

Maybe Butch, but a sub group of one particular Muslim sect has chosen to kill innocents as part of its modus operandi. That is significant. In an effort to reasonable, assertions like "people have been using religion for power for centuries" and "people will always find a way to kill" though undoubtedly accurate, miss the mark. In my opinion. The point that I believe that needs to be made is that this isn't a Muslim issue, it is a narrow sect that has declared war on that country. They need to be found and brought to justice. In the meantime all of us ought to condemn them, especially the Muslim community. I wish that happened more, or at least more publicly. It would go a long way to clarifying that this a small subgroup and not a religion as a whole.

 

[upstater]

Maybe Butch, but a sub group of one particular Muslim sect has chosen to kill innocents as part of its modus operandi. That is significant. In an effort to reasonable, assertions like "people have been using religion for power for centuries" and "people will always find a way to kill" though undoubtedly accurate, miss the mark. In my opinion. The point that I believe that needs to be made is that this isn't a Muslim issue, it is a narrow sect that has declared war on that country. They need to be found and brought to justice. In the meantime all of us ought to condemn them, especially the Muslim community. I wish that happened more, or at least more publically. It would go a long way to clarifying that this a small subgroup and not a religion as a whole.

Isn't it premature to even bring religion into this?

 

[CL82]

Isn't it premature to even bring religion into this?

Have you been reading this thread?

 

[Adios]

In the meantime all of us ought to condemn them, especially the Muslim community. I wish that happened more, or at least more publically. It would go a long way to clarifying that this a small subgroup and not a religion as a whole.

We've done that plenty. You can find loads and loads of web sites doing that. But do you think the media caters to rational minds? It's all about sensationalizing. Gossip magazines sell very, very well. People watch stupid reality shows endlessly.

 

[upstater]

Have you been reading this thread?

I have. It's not certain at all that the bombers were Muslim. If they were, I suspect they were recent converts, and not born. I was looking up Kyrgyzstan where they were form, and they look entirely different from the Muslim population of that country. If you do a search with Google Image of "Kyrghyz people" you'll find what the dominant Muslim group looks like. The bombers look like the European Christian minority of that country. Plus, they've been in the USA for well more than a decade and have been through those Cambridge schools.

 

[CL82]

We've done that plenty. You can find loads and loads of web sites doing that. But do you think the media caters to rational minds? It's all about sensationalizing. Gossip magazines sell very, very well. People watch stupid reality shows endlessly.

I can tell you that's been my experience, especially early on after 9/11 when people were angry and unequivocal about condemning the action and saying "that's not who we (Muslims) are." I agree with you that the media could do a much better job of making publicizing that.

 

[CL82]

I have. It's not certain at all that the bombers were Muslim. If they were, I suspect they were recent converts, and not born. I was looking up Kyrgyzstan where they were form, and they look entirely different from the Muslim population of that country. If you do a search with Google Image of "Kyrghyz people" you'll find what the dominant Muslim group looks like. The bombers look like the European Christian minority of that country. Plus, they've been in the USA for well more than a decade and have been through those Cambridge schools.

Understand your point Upstater, but reread my post and realize that it stands on its own without the marathon bombings.

Regarding what the Kyrghyz people "look like" I don't see that as being particularly relevent. We aren't talking about a religion, or a region. We are talking about individuals, about a sub group. That's the point, I'm trying to make.

 

[Lefty2one]

NBC broadcast just said an accomplice is on a Metro North train stopped/surrounded in East Norwalk.

 

[minidarren]

It was reported that they were of Muslim faith and one had linked to a YouTube video that showed some type of war or uprising. It was described as the first war or something like that.

I know this info sucks and I tried to rewind the DVR to report exactly what was said. But I cannot for the life of me find it.

I'm sure more will come out that may or may not provide of credibility to what was reported.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adios]

Would also be wise to stop killing innocents in other countries not called the United States of America.

 

[upstater]

Understand your point Upstater, but reread my post and realize that it stands on its own without the marathon bombings.

Regarding what the Kyrghyz people "look like" I don't see that as being particularly relevent. We aren't talking about a religion, or a region. We are talking about individuals, about a sub group. That's the point, I'm trying to make.

My Kyrghyz point was only made to differentiate between a indigenous Muslim people and a European Christian minority.

Now there's news out that the older brother was a convert.

Mother Jones has an article on his extremist views:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...uspect-posted-video-al-qaeda-prophecy-youtube

 

[upstater]

It was reported that they were of Muslim faith and one had linked to a YouTube video that showed some type of war or uprising. It was described as the first war or something like that.

I know this info sucks and I tried to rewind the DVR to report exactly what was said. But I cannot for the life of me find it.

I'm sure more will come out that may or may not provide of credibility to what was reported.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...uspect-posted-video-al-qaeda-prophecy-youtube

Apparently, this kid was an "end-timer."

 

[Leebo]

It was reported that they were of Muslim faith and one had linked to a YouTube video that showed some type of war or uprising. It was described as the first war or something like that.

I know this info sucks and I tried to rewind the DVR to report exactly what was said. But I cannot for the life of me find it.

I'm sure more will come out that may or may not provide of credibility to what was reported.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

They grew up in Chechnya. Linking to a video about the Chechnya wars would not really mean anything specific.

 

[freescooter]

I think when they catch him, they should announce that they violated his civil rights, so they are going to release him at 12:01 p.m. in Copley Square. due to all the overtime, all police will be going off duty in the area at 12:00 Noon for the next 2 hours.

 

[upstater]

They grew up in Chechnya. Linking to a video about the Chechnya wars would not really mean anything specific.

The family was from Dagestan (right near Chechnya) but moved to Kyrghyzstan where the boys were born. The boys are reported by fellow classmates to have attended elementary school in Cambridge, MA.

 

[RS9999X]

Chechnyan Muslim Terrorist.

So, is the US at war with Chechnya now?