OT Baseball HOF hypocrisy | Page 5 | The Boneyard

OT Baseball HOF hypocrisy

boog204 said:
One thing I've always considered about the Mitchell Report, is that there are 89 players officially named/leaked (this doesn't include ANY Red Sox or ARod, those names were leaked later). Of those 89, 73 either admitted they used or had clear evidence (checks written to suppliers or clubhouse confiscation). The other 16 all are in the trainers or Balco's "books" so there's something there. I totally get the "false positive/not sure what was tested" narrative. But it seems like the vast majority of those connected to the Mitchell Report were users by admission. Wikipedia breaks it down here --> List of Major League Baseball players named in the Mitchell Report - Wikipedia

On the "never failed a test" angle, Bonds supposedly failed one test for Greenies; what we all know many legends were using for many, many years and Clemens never failed an official test. So the Papi is clean because he never failed argument is lame, too, imo. If we are 100% certain that Bonds and Clemens were using, but they do not have a pure steroid fail, should we give them a pass, too?

I'm a Yankee fan, Papi should be in as he was one of the best players of his era; an era that included rampant steroid use by way more guys than I think we will ever know. I mean as a Yankee fan the only guys who would surprise me would be Mo and Jeter because their bodies and skill decline seemed natural to me. I'd almost assume that the vast majority of the rest were on something. Papi should be in, however, he should not be in before Bonds and Clemens.
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There is a reason no Sox were listed in the Mitchell report:
9599BC77-C13A-4B0D-8151-ED0D4B834EA9.jpeg
 
Connecticut13 said:
Ortiz played in a different period than Bonds (although I know there was some overlap). There was widespread testing for much of Ortiz’s career and certainly for his best years. So, I view them differently.

Ultimately, it’s still a question of proof. It’s not a criminal trial, sure, but do we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt? I know some of you will disagree, but I don’t think we do. And if we’re going to keep someone out of the HOF, I think we need that proof.
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They didn’t start testing for HGH until about 2013-2014. That’s the drug most of these mlb guys were doing after the hard anabolics of the 90s and early 2000s and there was no testing for it for most of Ortiz’s career. Now these guys micro dose. Take very small amounts of the drug that exit your system in 24 hours or less. There’s countless ways to beat these drug tests. MLB doesn’t use a USADA level drug testing protocol like they do in the Olympics or fighting where they literally show up at your house at 2am with a testing kit randomly. These guys know when they’re gonna be tested. The mlb testing protocol is a joke.
 
Connecticut13 said:
Ortiz played in a different period than Bonds (although I know there was some overlap). There was widespread testing for much of Ortiz’s career and certainly for his best years. So, I view them differently.

Ultimately, it’s still a question of proof. It’s not a criminal trial, sure, but do we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt? I know some of you will disagree, but I don’t think we do. And if we’re going to keep someone out of the HOF, I think we need that proof.
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Of course and really it's the court of public opinion and trying to connect dots. I truly believe that the far majority of baseball fans believe that Ortiz was using. Those that don't are Red Sox fans. We could say the same for Piazza, Bagwell, and many others who are already in the HOF.

I cannot distance myself from the fact that the vast majority of the names on the original failed test list were in-fact users. Why Ortiz is the one guy who's test is deemed invalid is beyond my understanding. Most of the other admitted guys on that list didn't fail tests either.

Honestly, I don't blame any guy who did PEDs and if you were made better as a result and got away with it, all power to you. I certainly didn't mind when Pettitte was pitching well or Giambi was hitting homeruns against Pedro to keep us in the game in 2003. Scumbag though he is, watching Bonds turn into a video game player was awesome. It was incredible to watch someone who was just infinitely better than anyone else. And, to be honest, I'd take the steroid era in a heartbeat when games were exciting and interesting over the complete drudgery that is solo homeruns, shifts, and the endless strikeout baseball of 2022.
 
Universal Dan Hurley and a draft lottery now. The one league that draft lottery makes the most sense is the NFL. MLB draft is such a crap shoot.
 
boog204 said:
Of course and really it's the court of public opinion and trying to connect dots. I truly believe that the far majority of baseball fans believe that Ortiz was using. Those that don't are Red Sox fans. We could say the same for Piazza, Bagwell, and many others who are already in the HOF.

I cannot distance myself from the fact that the vast majority of the names on the original failed test list were in-fact users. Why Ortiz is the one guy who's test is deemed invalid is beyond my understanding. Most of the other admitted guys on that list didn't fail tests either.

Honestly, I don't blame any guy who did PEDs and if you were made better as a result and got away with it, all power to you. I certainly didn't mind when Pettitte was pitching well or Giambi was hitting homeruns against Pedro to keep us in the game in 2003. Scumbag though he is, watching Bonds turn into a video game player was awesome. It was incredible to watch someone who was just infinitely better than anyone else. And, to be honest, I'd take the steroid era in a heartbeat when games were exciting and interesting over the complete drudgery that is solo homeruns, shifts, and the endless strikeout baseball of 2022.
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I think even Red Sox believe he was using. There's just a big difference between believing something and having conclusive proof. I believe Bagwell and Piazza were using too. Probably Pudge Rodriguez also.
 
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Connecticut13 said:
I think even Red Sox believe he was using. There's just a big difference between believing something and having conclusive proof. I believe Bagwell and Piazza were using too. Probably Pudge Rodriguez also.
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Think it's likely that Bagwell used; guy became the incredible hulk there for a spell. Piazza is probable, but there's something about his denials that seem authentic. Pudge I think is a no-brainer. He's mentioned in Canseco's book and literally everyone Canseco cited was nabbed at one point.
 
Connecticut13 said:
I think even Red Sox believe he was using. There's just a big difference between believing something and having conclusive proof. I believe Bagwell and Piazza were using too. Probably Pudge Rodriguez also.
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Its been proven that A-Rod juiced for years without getting caught until he screwed up his losange schedule and took one too close to a drug test which caused him to fail. So it is possible to get right up to that line without getting caught as long as you’re very careful. Check out “Screwball” on Netflix all about the Balco scandal. It explains a lot…including how A-Rod threw his teammate under the bus…

I dislike Papi as much as A-Rod (and Laettner) mostly because he skated after testing positive for “something”…which he said he was going to look into…thennnn it just kinda went away. For me, conclusive proof is that he hit 30, 35, 37 and 38 homeruns after turning 35 when most non-chemically enhanced players are wrapping up their careers. Someone better at sports research can give a list of players who raked during the same age period and it would probably include all of the known juicers. Is he just a freak of nature? Perhaps, but it’s rare. Plus that late in his career the risk/reward is favorable. Don’t get caught, keep signing lucrative 1-2 year deals. Get caught, retire.

Probably the thing I dislike most is his getting into the HOF opens the door for A-Rod…
 
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