OT - A-Rod/Dempster

[jibsey]

There are no angels in this but , here's the difference between AROD and Papi, AROD stood in front of cameras some time ago and said he took PED's when he was outed, Papi no. AROD whether you hate him or not does not cry like a baby to umpires on every called strike or punchout, and yesterday he took the HBP without emotion (his manager went crazy). One other thing, I have less respect for Dempster and Farrell than AROD for not owning up because they could have just said "you saw what you saw" and owned it without openly admitting it. I think Girardi said something like "there will be other games", which says that they will retaliate.

 

[boog204]

The Yanks will definitely retaliate... They couldn't afford to yesterday given that the game was too close and our pitching is too inconsistent to be playing around w/ free baserunners. But I can guarantee that Elsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz will take one in the back from a starter other than Pettitte or Kuroda or in the head if Girardi is dumb enough ever to put Joba in the game.

ARod is an unquestionable . But he's a different type than say Barry Bonds. Bonds was hated b/c he was just an a plain and simple. You knew exactly where he stood. Surly, mean spirited, arrogant and selfish. People hate ARod b/c he is so phony and tries to paint himself as one of the boys. Every little thing he does is fake. I (and I think baseball) would hate him less if he just went into Bonds mode and just was an ass.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Maybe, but hockey fighting is beyond stupid. There is no fighting in college or International leagues and it doesn't affect the quality of play. It's a US created thing like people enjoying NASCAR crashes.

I agree. That's the reason Olympic Hockey is so much better Oddly, j am a NASCAR fan but I don't watch for crashes.

 

[jibsey]

The Yanks will definitely retaliate... They couldn't afford to yesterday given that the game was too close and our pitching is too inconsistent to be playing around w/ free baserunners. But I can guarantee that Elsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz will take one in the back from a starter other than Pettitte or Kuroda or in the head if Girardi is dumb enough ever to put Joba in the game.

ARod is an unquestionable . But he's a different type than say Barry Bonds. Bonds was hated b/c he was just an a plain and simple. You knew exactly where he stood. Surly, mean spirited, arrogant and selfish. People hate ARod b/c he is so phony and tries to paint himself as one of the boys. Every little thing he does is fake. I (and I think baseball) would hate him less if he just went into Bonds mode and just was an ass.

I hear the phony thing all the time, but most of the people saying it are jealous of the attention and money, and how do fans throw that label out without actually meeting him? He's polite in interviews so he's phony? During his recent minor league rehab, young players he worked with were extremely complimentary, so my point is that we don't really know these guys and the seemingly nicest ones can in fact be scum and vice versa.

 

[Gurleyman]

Hitting batters has been in the game since it began. So be it.

But, it doesn't matter if the batter is Pol Pot, you have to toss the pitcher if he needs four pitches to nail a guy.

It was awfully self-aggrandizing as well - or at least the idea was. The execution was a tad embarrassing.

Hey - Fishy used Pol Pot as his go to evil mass-murderer for a joke and I missed it. Serves me right for spending a Sunday at the zoo.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

ARod has never failed an official test either; he was on the "anonymous" list along with Papi.

A-Rod tested positive for testosterone and Primobolan and has admitted as much.

 

[Fishy]

Hey - Fishy used Pol Pot as his go to evil mass-murderer for a joke and I missed it. Serves me right for spending a Sunday at the zoo.

Right after I posted that, I pointed towards the west coast and made one of those chest-thumping gestures.

 

[tentoes4rings]

I can't stand ARod but it's a joke that anyone is trying to say Ortiz isn't a cheater. There was a whole juicing culture with the Red Sox, Lou Merloni said he was pressured by the organization to take steroids, Curt Schilling said the same and when that murderer Jared Remy was working as a parking lot security guard for the team he and his buddy were pinched for roids and Remy said Ortiz would openly talk about his steroid use.

As the saying goes John, why let the truth get in the way of a good story? Here is the quote you're referring to allegedly about Ortiz openly talking about his steroid use "The two workers told the Red Sox and Major League Baseball that they knew of no steroid use by players, but Remy told the Spotlight Team a former aide to David Ortiz had talked openly about his own steroid use while the former aide and Remy were at Gold’s Gym on Lansdowne Street." Please at least put a little effort in if you're going to blatantly misstate an allegation.

Merloni discussed one meeting where a doctor allegedly spoke to the team about the proper way to use steroids. He never said anything about being personally pressured to use them. He later backtracked somewhat on his comments and couldn't remember the date of the meeting or the doctor's name.

Schilling has always been a windbag who likes to hear himself talk and bankrupt states. As someone once said he was a "horse every 5 days and a horse's ass every other day". He said it was "former members" of the Red Sox organization who are no longer there suggested PEDs over shoulder surgery.

I'm not suggesting that there's no merit to Merloni and Schilling's comments but holes can certainly be poked in both. So you just cited 3 examples to prove there was a "juicing culture" with the Red Sox. One I disproved by providing the right quote and the other two are somewhat weak as well. Your statements remind me of that game telephone where one kid whispers something in another's ear, and this goes around in a circle until the final story doesn't even resemble the original story. It won't kill you to put a little effort in to find quotes or links to stories you're using to try to paint a very negative picture of an organization.

 

[jibsey]

It seems Manny was a one man juicing culture for 2 world championships. Would I bet my life that he was the only one?

 

[superjohn]

As the saying goes John, why let the truth get in the way of a good story? Here is the quote you're referring to allegedly about Ortiz openly talking about his steroid use "The two workers told the Red Sox and Major League Baseball that they knew of no steroid use by players, but Remy told the Spotlight Team a former aide to David Ortiz had talked openly about his own steroid use while the former aide and Remy were at Gold’s Gym on Lansdowne Street." Please at least put a little effort in if you're going to blatantly misstate an allegation.

Merloni discussed one meeting where a doctor allegedly spoke to the team about the proper way to use steroids. He never said anything about being personally pressured to use them. He later backtracked somewhat on his comments and couldn't remember the date of the meeting or the doctor's name.

Schilling has always been a windbag who likes to hear himself talk and bankrupt states. As someone once said he was a "horse every 5 days and a horse's ass every other day". He said it was "former members" of the Red Sox organization who are no longer there suggested PEDs over shoulder surgery.

I'm not suggesting that there's no merit to Merloni and Schilling's comments but holes can certainly be poked in both. So you just cited 3 examples to prove there was a "juicing culture" with the Red Sox. One I disproved by providing the right quote and the other two are somewhat weak as well. Your statements remind me of that game telephone where one kid whispers something in another's ear, and this goes around in a circle until the final story doesn't even resemble the original story. It won't kill you to put a little effort in to find quotes or links to stories you're using to try to paint a very negative picture of an organization.

I'll admit I had the Remy Ortiz quote wrong I was going off of memory on an article I read a long time ago. It's pretty clear you are trying to dismiss what Merloni and Schilling said, I thought they were pretty explosive revelations. Do you also think Manny was taking anti-fertility drugs to stop his pregnancy? Gabe Kapler and Trot Nixon certainly didn't look like steroid candidates. The most shocking thing was that George Mitchell didn't find a single Red Sox player to be using when he was commissioned with his report and he focused in on many Yankees, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Mitchell being a director of the Red Sox, no conflict of interest there. Yes the Red Sox had a steroid culture like the rest of the teams in major league baseball had a steroid culture.

 

[mauconnfan]

OMG how could we forget the original juicer in Gabe Kapler.....no not Gabe!!

 

[tentoes4rings]

OMG how could we forget the original juicer in Gabe Kapler.....no not Gabe!!

I'll see your Kapler and raise you a Jason Giambi.

 

[tentoes4rings]

I'll admit I had the Remy Ortiz quote wrong I was going off of memory on an article I read a long time ago. It's pretty clear you are trying to dismiss what Merloni and Schilling said, I thought they were pretty explosive revelations. Do you also think Manny was taking anti-fertility drugs to stop his pregnancy? Gabe Kapler and Trot Nixon certainly didn't look like steroid candidates. The most shocking thing was that George Mitchell didn't find a single Red Sox player to be using when he was commissioned with his report and he focused in on many Yankees, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Mitchell being a director of the Red Sox, no conflict of interest there. Yes the Red Sox had a steroid culture like the rest of the teams in major league baseball had a steroid culture.

I've admitted to Nixon, Kapler was big long before he came to the Sox so I wouldn't blame the Red Sox at all for whatever he did or didn't do. I'll agree that the Red Sox steroid abuse was probably commensurate with the rest of the teams in the league. Let's face it, any team that didn't have it's share would have had no chance of competing unfortunately during that period.

 

[The Viking]

The Yanks will definitely retaliate... They couldn't afford to yesterday given that the game was too close and our pitching is too inconsistent to be playing around w/ free baserunners. But I can guarantee that Elsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz will take one in the back from a starter other than Pettitte or Kuroda or in the head if Girardi is dumb enough ever to put Joba in the game.

ARod is an unquestionable . But he's a different type than say Barry Bonds. Bonds was hated b/c he was just an a plain and simple. You knew exactly where he stood. Surly, mean spirited, arrogant and selfish. People hate ARod b/c he is so phony and tries to paint himself as one of the boys. Every little thing he does is fake. I (and I think baseball) would hate him less if he just went into Bonds mode and just was an ass.

I would say A-Rod was hated by many before he was allegedly a rat. I'd say now 95% of the players now despise him, and that probably includes many of his own teammates.

 

[The Viking]

There are no angels in this but , here's the difference between AROD and Papi, AROD stood in front of cameras some time ago and said he took PED's when he was outed, Papi no. AROD whether you hate him or not does not cry like a baby to umpires on every called strike or punchout, and yesterday he took the HBP without emotion (his manager went crazy). One other thing, I have less respect for Dempster and Farrell than AROD for not owning up because they could have just said "you saw what you saw" and owned it without openly admitting it. I think Girardi said something like "there will be other games", which says that they will retaliate.

What planet have you been on lately? A-Rod is the biggest clown in the sport, there is no one who is on his level. Especially Dempster and Farrell.
I hate to break this to you but I'll bet there were several NY players who were thrilled with A-Rod getting plunked in the ribs, and you know that Cervelli, Cashman and Levine were loving the hell out of it..as were the millions of NY fans who were just recently praying NY would somehow find a way to cut ties with him. The guy is threatening to sue the team that he is playing for. It's a circus. The GM doesn't even want to talk to him.
There is NO ONE comparable to A-Rod.

 

[msgordon]

theres no one comparable to arod because he plays for the yankees, is one of the alltime greats statistically, has a massive contract that he wont live up to and is seen as a huge choker in every postseason but one. nobody thought he was a clown before he came to new york. i obviously dont know him besides what is seen in the media, at times he looks like a tool and at times he seems very sincere, but the biggest reasons hes been made the face of the PED hunt in baseball arent really under his 'control'

 

[The Viking]

Ortiz promised "to get to the bottom" of his positive test in 2003. Well ten years later we're still waiting.... It's common knowlege that PED's can be taken in the off season and not detected by testing on season. Ortiz is someone whose bat is gaining speed with advancing age, right. Dempster should be throwing at him.

This might make the Yankees fanboy heads explode all at once, but this article was from a few weeks ago.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...as-offered-clarification-regarding-2003-list/

Ortiz told WEEI.com that despite numerous attempts to uncover what exactly he had been placed on the court-ordered sealed list for, there had been no cooperation from any of the parties involved.
“No. Nobody. Not MLB. Not the Players Association. Nobody,” said Ortiz when asked if anyone had revealed what he had reportedly tested positive for. “They just threw it out there that I tested positive on this one list and that was it. Nothing. So I have to deal with that, and your mind is all over the place. And I’ve lived with it

 

[msgordon]

im a yanks fan and actually like ortiz but that quote just shows how the whole PED witch hunt is massively flawed with different standards and lends more credence to the idea that arod is being singled out. none of these guys even fail the official mlb tests, theyre always suspended or exposed by info from outside clinics. people like bonds and clemens who obviously used never actually violated anything that was signed off by the players in a bargaining agreement

 

[The Viking]

The problem is that it is hard to get proof... You have to be really dumb to get caught. I mean the biogenesis guys were writing checks in their name and the clinic had handwritten dosages and accounting. How dumb do you have to be as a professional athlete to leave a paper trail like that? Ken Caminiti said in 02 that 50% of players were on PEDs and he was laughed at. Canseco came out w/ Juiced a few years later and said 80%. I don't think it's changed that much. Players will always be one step ahead of the testing procedures and chemists will be concocting new stuff all the time to beat the tests. The sad fact is that Canseco was right on every player he mentioned in his book. Canseco, super that he is, might actually be the most honest player in the steroid era.

Its definitely changed. The HR totals have changed fairly dramatically and the players have been more vocal and vigilant towards going after cheaters and expanding PED testing.

 

[The Viking]

OMG why should Papi get a pass then explain that one to me? Do you think just because you use PED's at the age of 60 your numbers won't go down? It's relative, he still has very good power and great bat speed which he lost when he tried to go without.......he's using, think what you want but he has a mask!! Sorry to spoil your next game watching the papster but with what ARod is going through he doesn't deserve to be forgotten........look at ARod numbers, that's dramatic!!

"Which he lost when he tried to go without"....For what it's worth, I get the feeling you're talking about the year or year and a half where he was trying to recover from a torn sheath tendon in his wrist without getting surgery on it - the same wrist injury Teixeira just had surgery on. We saw how Teixeira did this year when he tried to play through it without surgery.
Who knows what happened but you can't merely dismiss his wrist injury as a possible reason for his struggles a few years ago.

 

[msgordon]

i think the fans share equal 'blame' in all of this as well. the media adjusts their coverage and the leagues themselves adjust their stances to cater to fan reaction. nobody cares that francisco cervelli tested positive. the vast majority of fans dont care about all of the NFL users. if the broncos win a ring this year people will just start debating peyton mannings alltime rank, theyre not going to be calling for an asterisk because von miller violated the substance abuse policy and was still allowed to fly all over the field in the super bowl.

 

[The Viking]

You're kidding right? That's a joke..........I'm all for part of the game. But throwing behind him on the first one, in tight on the 2nd one and 3rd and then hitting him on the 4th is like stalking a guy.......even the biggest a**wipe in red Sox history the Schill thought he should have been ejected..........it's a baseball game not a "let's get ARod" game. Thats was BUSH period.........

As a Yankee fan I know they need to win the game but Papi needs to go down if the timing allows because that's "part of the game"!

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

 

[boog204]

A-Rod tested positive for testosterone and Primobolan and has admitted as much.

This positive test was from 2003 during the "anonymous" testing. ARod came clean and stated he used those substances. This was not an "official" test as Red Sox fans like to state because of the connection to Papi. Ortiz tested positive for the same test but denied knowledge of what he took. MLB has long kept the results sealed because they were anonymous which is why Ortiz has never been able to get his specific results. ARod never had to say a thing but he elected to admit his use. Not sure why he did that to be honest.

 

[boog204]

This might make the Yankees fanboy heads explode all at once, but this article was from a few weeks ago.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...as-offered-clarification-regarding-2003-list/

Because it's court ordered. ARod's results, from the same test, were court ordered too. ARod named the substances he took. It's not that Papi never got clarification, it's his response to what it could have been. He said numerous times he was careless with stimulants and vitamins. When asked what they were he could not name one vitamin or stimulant that he took. He then referenced milkshakes he drank in the DR. Do you really buy any of that? At least some of the other "I didn't know what I was taking guys" could name what they thought it was.

 

[boog204]

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

 

[SheemTheDream]

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

All my Yankees fan friends loved watching Youk get hit. As for 03,that's just Manny being Manny. The guy would go crazy if somebody took his spot on the bench. I wouldn't blame the Yankees for hitting a sox player next game though.

 

[mauconnfan]

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

Bring up something which makes more send Soxbaby...........Youkilis got hit by everyone, led the league - granted Joba hated him but why not? After all everyone on the Sox staff were throwing head high at the Yanks........this isn's even worth arguing about which team had the headhunters!!

 

[mauconnfan]

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

All's I can say I will be embarrassed as a Yankee fan if they don't find a spot to drill one of their so-called stars!!

 

[HooperScooper]

Dempster suspended 5 games and fined. As a Sox fan I was hoping it was longer so we could get Dempster out of the rotation! He's been terrible lately.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9...fined-hitting-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

 

[Rico444]

Dempster didn't throw at A-Rod because he took steroids; he threw at him because he snitched on a bunch of players. I don't know why everyone fails to understand this.