OT - A-Rod/Dempster

[msgordon]

theres no one comparable to arod because he plays for the yankees, is one of the alltime greats statistically, has a massive contract that he wont live up to and is seen as a huge choker in every postseason but one. nobody thought he was a clown before he came to new york. i obviously dont know him besides what is seen in the media, at times he looks like a tool and at times he seems very sincere, but the biggest reasons hes been made the face of the PED hunt in baseball arent really under his 'control'

 

[The Viking]

Ortiz promised "to get to the bottom" of his positive test in 2003. Well ten years later we're still waiting.... It's common knowlege that PED's can be taken in the off season and not detected by testing on season. Ortiz is someone whose bat is gaining speed with advancing age, right. Dempster should be throwing at him.

This might make the Yankees fanboy heads explode all at once, but this article was from a few weeks ago.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...as-offered-clarification-regarding-2003-list/

Ortiz told WEEI.com that despite numerous attempts to uncover what exactly he had been placed on the court-ordered sealed list for, there had been no cooperation from any of the parties involved.
“No. Nobody. Not MLB. Not the Players Association. Nobody,” said Ortiz when asked if anyone had revealed what he had reportedly tested positive for. “They just threw it out there that I tested positive on this one list and that was it. Nothing. So I have to deal with that, and your mind is all over the place. And I’ve lived with it

 

[msgordon]

im a yanks fan and actually like ortiz but that quote just shows how the whole PED witch hunt is massively flawed with different standards and lends more credence to the idea that arod is being singled out. none of these guys even fail the official mlb tests, theyre always suspended or exposed by info from outside clinics. people like bonds and clemens who obviously used never actually violated anything that was signed off by the players in a bargaining agreement

 

[The Viking]

The problem is that it is hard to get proof... You have to be really dumb to get caught. I mean the biogenesis guys were writing checks in their name and the clinic had handwritten dosages and accounting. How dumb do you have to be as a professional athlete to leave a paper trail like that? Ken Caminiti said in 02 that 50% of players were on PEDs and he was laughed at. Canseco came out w/ Juiced a few years later and said 80%. I don't think it's changed that much. Players will always be one step ahead of the testing procedures and chemists will be concocting new stuff all the time to beat the tests. The sad fact is that Canseco was right on every player he mentioned in his book. Canseco, super that he is, might actually be the most honest player in the steroid era.

Its definitely changed. The HR totals have changed fairly dramatically and the players have been more vocal and vigilant towards going after cheaters and expanding PED testing.

 

[The Viking]

OMG why should Papi get a pass then explain that one to me? Do you think just because you use PED's at the age of 60 your numbers won't go down? It's relative, he still has very good power and great bat speed which he lost when he tried to go without.......he's using, think what you want but he has a mask!! Sorry to spoil your next game watching the papster but with what ARod is going through he doesn't deserve to be forgotten........look at ARod numbers, that's dramatic!!

"Which he lost when he tried to go without"....For what it's worth, I get the feeling you're talking about the year or year and a half where he was trying to recover from a torn sheath tendon in his wrist without getting surgery on it - the same wrist injury Teixeira just had surgery on. We saw how Teixeira did this year when he tried to play through it without surgery.
Who knows what happened but you can't merely dismiss his wrist injury as a possible reason for his struggles a few years ago.

 

[msgordon]

i think the fans share equal 'blame' in all of this as well. the media adjusts their coverage and the leagues themselves adjust their stances to cater to fan reaction. nobody cares that francisco cervelli tested positive. the vast majority of fans dont care about all of the NFL users. if the broncos win a ring this year people will just start debating peyton mannings alltime rank, theyre not going to be calling for an asterisk because von miller violated the substance abuse policy and was still allowed to fly all over the field in the super bowl.

 

[The Viking]

You're kidding right? That's a joke..........I'm all for part of the game. But throwing behind him on the first one, in tight on the 2nd one and 3rd and then hitting him on the 4th is like stalking a guy.......even the biggest a**wipe in red Sox history the Schill thought he should have been ejected..........it's a baseball game not a "let's get ARod" game. Thats was BUSH period.........

As a Yankee fan I know they need to win the game but Papi needs to go down if the timing allows because that's "part of the game"!

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

 

[boog204]

A-Rod tested positive for testosterone and Primobolan and has admitted as much.

This positive test was from 2003 during the "anonymous" testing. ARod came clean and stated he used those substances. This was not an "official" test as Red Sox fans like to state because of the connection to Papi. Ortiz tested positive for the same test but denied knowledge of what he took. MLB has long kept the results sealed because they were anonymous which is why Ortiz has never been able to get his specific results. ARod never had to say a thing but he elected to admit his use. Not sure why he did that to be honest.

 

[boog204]

This might make the Yankees fanboy heads explode all at once, but this article was from a few weeks ago.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...as-offered-clarification-regarding-2003-list/

Because it's court ordered. ARod's results, from the same test, were court ordered too. ARod named the substances he took. It's not that Papi never got clarification, it's his response to what it could have been. He said numerous times he was careless with stimulants and vitamins. When asked what they were he could not name one vitamin or stimulant that he took. He then referenced milkshakes he drank in the DR. Do you really buy any of that? At least some of the other "I didn't know what I was taking guys" could name what they thought it was.

 

[boog204]

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

 

[SheemTheDream]

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

All my Yankees fan friends loved watching Youk get hit. As for 03,that's just Manny being Manny. The guy would go crazy if somebody took his spot on the bench. I wouldn't blame the Yankees for hitting a sox player next game though.

 

[mauconnfan]

Speaking of a pitcher stalking a hitter, where was your outrage when Joba tried to throw at Youkilis many times, especially in the head area. Yankee Stadium would erupt with praise anytime he went after Youk.

Bring up something which makes more send Soxbaby...........Youkilis got hit by everyone, led the league - granted Joba hated him but why not? After all everyone on the Sox staff were throwing head high at the Yanks........this isn's even worth arguing about which team had the headhunters!!

 

[mauconnfan]

I think you're mistaken on that... Most Yankee fans seemed more in shock that yet again, for apparently no reason, Joba was throwing at Youk. Same thing with Clemens and Piazza. Although I certainly remember elation when Pedro, the best pitcher I've ever seen, sent the first two batters of the game (Soriano and Jeter) to the hospital. The Sox have definitely been the aggressors in the HBP game and then get their panties in a bunch if the Yankees retaliate. Look at that ridiculous 03 playoff game where Pedro beans Karim Garcia, threatens to hit Posada in the head, and then Clemens throws a high fastball and Manny goes ballistic.

Will Red Sox fans cry when Ellsbury, Pedroia, or Ortiz is hit next time we play?

All's I can say I will be embarrassed as a Yankee fan if they don't find a spot to drill one of their so-called stars!!

 

[HooperScooper]

Dempster suspended 5 games and fined. As a Sox fan I was hoping it was longer so we could get Dempster out of the rotation! He's been terrible lately.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9...fined-hitting-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

 

[Rico444]

Dempster didn't throw at A-Rod because he took steroids; he threw at him because he snitched on a bunch of players. I don't know why everyone fails to understand this.

 

[mauconnfan]

Dempster didn't throw at A-Rod because he took steroids; he threw at him because he snitched on a bunch of players. I don't know why everyone fails to understand this.

He's the judge and jury? I don't know why you don't understand they both go by the same union rules so Dumpster an a**wipe!

 

[Rico444]

He's the judge and jury? I don't know why you don't understand they both go by the same union rules so Dumpster an a**wipe!

Not saying he's right, but I think players would be much angrier about him snitching than him taking steroids.

 

[mauconnfan]

Not saying he's right, but I think players would be much angrier about him snitching than him taking steroids.

Need to know where it has been more than assumed that he snitched? Or was it someone from his "camp"? Maybe Dumpster knows something we don't but I sincerely doubt it......he's more of a piece of crap than ARod and that's not easy...........

 

[The Viking]

Bring up something which makes more send Soxbaby...........Youkilis got hit by everyone, led the league - granted Joba hated him but why not? After all everyone on the Sox staff were throwing head high at the Yanks........this isn's even worth arguing about which team had the headhunters!!

If you are suggesting that joba wasn't throwing at him over all those years and it was just a case of Youkilis gets hit a lot, well that may be the dumbest thing you have ever written...and that says a lot

 

[Rico444]

Need to know where it has been more than assumed that he snitched? Or was it someone from his "camp"? Maybe Dumpster knows something we don't but I sincerely doubt it......he's more of a piece of crap than ARod and that's not easy...........

I think the odds that A-Rod didn't actually snitch are about the same as the ones that Dempster didn't throw at A-Rod on purpose.

 

[mauconnfan]

If you are suggesting that joba wasn't throwing at him over all those years and it was just a case of Youkilis gets hit a lot, well that may be the dumbest thing you have ever written...and that says a lot

Never do you stray from that team of yours huh..........your posts might not be dumb but they are Heinsohnesque!! I do love making you react like a little sissie though, it's enjoying!!

Anyway he was throwing up and in by Joba with intent - yeah! - hanging over the plate and leading the league in HBP? Yep, easy to hit the dude but he didn't like him for some reason no doubt....any different than the numerous up and in's on Jeter over the years particularly Pedro and even our own Rocket? Please explain your one-sided view on that and tell me who has hit more opposing players in these 2 teams match ups even with the stalking of Youk? You have no leg to stand on....................still trying to make Dumpsters dagger okay in your Sox mind?

 

[mauconnfan]

I think the odds that A-Rod didn't actually snitch are about the same as the ones that Dempster didn't throw at A-Rod on purpose.

I doubt that one because we're certain of one of them.........

 

[Rico444]

I doubt that one because we're certain of one of them.........

Which one is that? Dempster could've been struggling with his control.

I seriously doubt it, but I also seriously doubt that MLB would baldface lie about A-Rod snitching and open themselves up to a defamation suit.

 

[mauconnfan]

Which one is that? Dempster could've been struggling with his control.

I seriously doubt it, but I also seriously doubt that MLB would baldface lie about A-Rod snitching and open themselves up to a defamation suit.

C'mon Rico you're a smart and good dude.......please tell me you're smarter than that "struggling with control" thing?? LOL.......

 

[Rico444]

C'mon Rico you're a smart and good dude.......please tell me you're smarter than that "struggling with control" thing?? LOL.......

You don't understand my point at all. Obviously Dempster was throwing at A-Rod. But just as obvious is the fact that MLB didn't make up their story about A-Rod snitching on his peers, including one teammate.