On the coach

[Shine33]

Easier? Ok, I’ll do some legwork:

After looking at the season average for the starting backcourts of all AAC teams, I found the UCONN ranking below:

Fg% - last (12th)
3fg% - 10th
Pts - 9th
a/to - 9th

Did not formally rank all teams but by eyeball it looks like UConn is the lowest rank average across all categories.

So... what is the other side of the argument?@nelson

Thanks for providing the stats. It’s amazing to me that some ppl on here need the numbers to point out the glaringly obvious. And even then, some won’t accept it.

 

[Towney007]

We have no shooters, massive front court depth issues and we're down a scholly.

It blows my mind people where people's expectations are - never mind being mad about it.

 

[UCfor3]

We have no shooters, massive front court depth issues and we're down a scholly.

It blows my mind people where people's expectations are - never mind being mad about it.

Almost perfect post because I would add point guard issues and actually 3 unused scholarships this year(1 open & Cole and Springs sitting out). Toss in the Polley injury and we have 9 available players. It's almost as if some people have never lived through a rebuild for any of their favorite sports teams.

 

[Fatroony5]

We have no shooters, massive front court depth issues and we're down a scholly.

It blows my mind people where people's expectations are - never mind being mad about it.

Is Towney mr

 

[Towney007]

Is Towney mr

LOL NO

I have been over this. I totally cribbed his post though. Guilty as a charged.

 

[mauconnfan]

Thanks for providing the stats. It’s amazing to me that some ppl on here need the numbers to point out the glaringly obvious. And even then, some won’t accept it.

Why don't we point out stats for the whole team now if you want glaringly obvious? Why just throw it at one position? They block shots, play good defense and lost Polley. They have the worst offense from most any position, you want some glare? LOL For a guy who thinks he knows a lot of people who played the game at a high standard not sure what you think guards are going to do with crappy support. Watch the game please, no one gets open. Everyone passes it back to them when they can't take their guy. This team is terrible throughout but we know one things for sure, our guards are our best defenders minus the blocked shots by Akok. And defense after all is what keeps us in all of these games.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

I love the way some of the permanently unhappy people point to our freshman recruits and wonder why those freshman are not leading us to the NCAA tourney and the top of the AAC. So of course, you blame the coach for not turning each one into an instant first round pic and for the lack of leadership and quality play from his inheritance. You have unreasonable expectations and zero patience. [sarcasm] But of course, JC could've coached 5 freshman to the tourney. He went undefeated every year. [/sarcasm]
I'm frustrated with the losses and of course wish they were wins, but I also see a team that doesn't quit and for the most part is playing better than last year in terms of competitiveness. We're a few 3's and free throws away from not even having this stupid discussion. I expect a better offense next year based primarily on assumed development of the returning players.
And for those who have given up on the season, you seem to have forgotten about UConn magic. You must have given up on the 2011 season and of course the Clemson game. There is an AAC tourney you know with an automatic bid. Let's hope the team is able to continue to progress and is firing on all cylinders come tourney time.

 

[Towney007]

I dunno I guess my own expectations are just not having any expectations for this year. LIke a winning season and an NIT berth i'd be fine with. And i'm fine with that because next year and the year after, that's when you should start to see the engine really start to turn over. Because we'll have all the things we've lacked for five years.

Depth, guards who can distribute, guys who can score in a wide range of ways and bigs who can move and oh yeah - actual bigs.

 

[mauconnfan]

We have lost at least ten close games over that time period. These games are usually won by point guard play. In Hurley`s first year he took the ball out of Adams control instead of featuring Adams and coaching Adams up. Season two Hurley thought that AG would step up. Hurley did not have a plan B. We have seen six brutal loses that will most likely will keep us below a 500 record. Given UConn`s history, fan base and proxi ity to NYC, UConn will almost always get a bid to the NIT if it has a winning record.

Please Jalen averaged 18 a game he had the ball plenty. He threw it away a few times too. He was the focus though when healthy but he missed games that hurt us no doubt. Now we have AG, CV and the kids not sure what he should have done up until now when Adams went on a drought and Gaffney needed diapers dribbling the ball in traffic. Let's hope they are gone and he's grown up we need him to be that guy from yesterday.

 

[Towney007]

This year there were just too many questions.

-Front court depth issues were just lost early on it felt like. But if Carlton went bad, we were screwed even if the guards were playing better.

-We have depth issues. Two guys sitting on the bench w/ red shirts and another taken away. So any injury is a killer.

-While sure - I think we all hoped for more from GIlbert and Vital - they're not really any different from what they've been their entire time here. I think people (Hurley included) misjudged that there was more in the tank when there wasn't.

-The freshmen are helpful and are certainly talented. But they're freshmen. Akok has been our best player. But even he hasn't scored the ball a ton. Bouknight looks like he's going to be really, really special - but he's sloppy and handsy on defense and just like Gaffney - there are games where he kind of gets overhwlemed and disappears. Which is TOTALLY normal for freshmen. But we're not Kentucky and even at our best - we never recruited like that anyway.

-Oh and we lost our best scorer. Who was gonna be the guy?

So even if ALL THAT fell our way - which you know it probably won't - we're MAYBE a bubble team that's teetering on exploding at literally any time.

Look I don't like Hurley - I love Hurley - I think he's been great. But I think if you got him behind closed doors and got his honest take - it's what i'm talking about above. And right now he's balancing winning a few extra games now vs. building a program and winning. And figuring out how to not totally embarrass ourselves without compromising the kinds of values and culture he wants to have heading forward with players who are actually good. Integrity is like virginity - once you lose it, you never get it back. And I think that's important.

We're not winning the tournament or even *a tournament* this year; and yeah- I think Hurley is totally cool with a record that'd piss most people off. Because all it's about is building a culture, recruiting and getting talent that is going to be part of that next great UConn team on the floor and developing that, period. End of story.

All this other stuff is just ego appeasement, frankly and screw that. I'm all on deck for a big step forward next year and surprising a few people in the Big East... then the year after that? That's going to be pretty close to being business as usual around here.

But expecting that overnight given where this program has been, the pieces that are here, what their track record is, scholly situations - all of it... asking for RESULTS~! this year is a big ask.

 

[freescooter]

We have no shooters, massive front court depth issues and we're down a scholly.

It blows my mind people where people's expectations are - never mind being mad about it.

LOL. Yeah expectations are incredibly high. Beat the likes of St Joes and USF and a mediocre Cincinatti team. Win maybe 1 game against a ranked opponent where you have a lead late. Qualify for the NIT. That is my expectation. Other than the folks that thought we would run away with the AAC or that we will win the AAC tournament, not a soul I know and no sane poster(?) was thinking this was a tournament team and even the ones who did think that didn’t expect much of a run. OH and don’t finish last in the AAC. Tell me again why those are such high expectations.

 

[freescooter]

Great news though. We don’t need to perform next year either. Can’t wait until I read about how we shouldn’t be expected to win the Big East after all. Built in excuse.

 

[Towney007]

Great news though. We don’t need to perform next year either. Can’t wait until I read about how we shouldn’t be expected to win the Big East after all. Built in excuse.

Good luck with your GoFundMe dot com to buy out Hurley's contract, lose all of the players/recruits year-1 in the Big East and spend the next 20 years being UTEP while we dig back out of the even deeper hole.

I'm sure when you convince Dave Benedict to hire Coach K to replace him and we're 28-2 in year-1 it'll all work out, Captain Accountability.

 

[UconnFanDC]

Not fair to judge a coach who inherited a bunch of players who have major flaws in their games. Give him a year or two with all guys that he recruited. If the team is still struggling at that point, it will be telling.

I have a feeling that the correlation between success and having a roster full of Hurley's recruits will be high.

He can definitely be judged. The coach is learning as well, not just the players.

 

[UconnFanDC]

Didn't they come back from 22 down and beat Arizona y'day?

One game doesn't make up for the last 3 seasons. Arizona will beat Kansas and then lose to Cal State Fullerton or UNLV

 

[UconnFanDC]

LOL. You gonna be in TROUBLE!!! I said he needs to show progress NEXT year and some people got mad.

Your correct though. And hey, it's the truth.

 

[MuchoDogYears]

You believe AG is the reason for not going to the NIT for 2 seasons? Who should he have gone with since this was the roster he inherited? Let's hear this one and how it's AG only.

I get what you’re saying. But I think AG gets (maybe an unfair) amount of the blame for two reasons. 1. He’s the PG so it’s “his” team to lead. 2. He won’t correct the very correctable mistakes that he reverts to doing every game.

The third reason he comes in for criticism is that everyone, including his most vocal detractors, know that he’s a better player than he’s shown and yet he gets in his own way of being successful.
There’s nothing more frustrating than seeing somebody talented not live up to their talents. We tend to be most vocal with the talented ones. For better or worse.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We have no shooters, massive front court depth issues and we're down a scholly.

It blows my mind people where people's expectations are - never mind being mad about it.

Yeah, sort of. But let's not oversell that concept. We had three bad games. St. Joes, @Cinci and @USF. Aside from that the team has played well enough to win. Against what I'd call quality opponents we have this.

11/17/19	Florida	Gampel Pavilion	W, 62-59	2-1
11/22/19	Xavier	Charleston, SC	L, 74-75, 2OT	3-2
12/10/19	Indiana	Madison Square Garden	L, 54-57	6-3
1/12/20	Wichita State	XL Center	L. 86-89, 2 OT	10-6 (1-3)
1/18/20	@ Villanova	Philadelphia, PA	L, 55-61	10-7
1/23/20	@ Houston	Houston, TX	L, 59-63	10-8 (1-4)

Add in another OT loss to Tulsa if you like. All of those game were winable. UConn had a late lead in every one of those games. So expecting us to be good with this roster wasn't unreasonable. Every team has holes. Our main issue has been leadership down the stretch. Clutch play. Sid's late three against WSU was the one clutch play I've seen. Put Jalen Adams on this roster in place of Al and we might be ranked. Jalen was clutch. Hurley also had his stinkers and I still think the IU loss is on him.

 

[Stainmaster]

I can't think of another poster who seems so inappropriate using the pronoun "we." Take a look at your we-to-Likes ratio.

Freescooter hasn’t made the tournament since 2012 - he was not on board in 2014 or 2016.

 

[Towney007]

Yeah, sort of. But let's not oversell that concept. We had three bad games. St. Joes, @Cinci and @USF. Aside from that the team has played well enough to win. Against what I'd call quality opponents we have this.

11/17/19	Florida	Gampel Pavilion	W, 62-59	2-1
11/22/19	Xavier	Charleston, SC	L, 74-75, 2OT	3-2
12/10/19	Indiana	Madison Square Garden	L, 54-57	6-3
1/12/20	Wichita State	XL Center	L. 86-89, 2 OT	10-6 (1-3)
1/18/20	@ Villanova	Philadelphia, PA	L, 55-61	10-7
1/23/20	@ Houston	Houston, TX	L, 59-63	10-8 (1-4)

Add in another OT loss to Tulsa if you like. All of those game were winable. UConn had a late lead in every one of those games. So expecting us to be good with this roster wasn't unreasonable. Every team has holes. Our main issue has been leadership down the stretch. Clutch play. Sid's late three against WSU was the one clutch play I've seen. Put Jalen Adams on this roster in place of Al and we might be ranked. Jalen was clutch. Hurley also had his stinkers and I still think the IU loss is on him.

Yeah I guess we're coming at this from entirely different directions. You guys seem to think there's talent on the roster - or at least enough to get it over the hump and I just don't. Not even close.

The core guys on this roster have been a gong show for 3-4 years across two different coaching staffs. If you're still in denial about their actual talent level at this point, i'm not sure what else they've gotta manage to do to get you to that point.

To me - the fact that Hurley has them anywhere near competitive despite being as bad as they've been over a wide sample while also being down their best player is a minor miracle (and the scholly stuff).

And of course they have leadership issues. They had leadership issues when Jalen was here, too. They've been coughing up the ball and turning it over for years now, The best three players on the team are 18 and none of them are automatic scoring threats now - minus Bouknight. But he's in foul trouble seemingly every game. Even if he wasn't - he's not enough on his own.

We have Josh Carlton AND THAT'S IT up front minus Whalley, sort of. And Carlton has regressed to ye olde mean.

Could we have pulled back some of these wins? Maybe - I dunno. But who's taking the big shot? No one can shoot consistently. Who else is he gonna bench and get mad at when they play bad? He's benched Carlton back to his freshman year. He almost stapled Gilbert to the bench yesterday. Maybe we pull some wins back, but i'm not sure any of them are needle movers and most people that are chicken little-ing now, would still be chicken-little-ing.

To me this group are what they are - whatever we get out of them we get. I appreciate them sticking it out, but outside of that, they're just not good enough to get the job done.

I'm certainly in the camp of Hurley playing the kids more. I've certainly seen him make his mistakes this year. But they haven't been killer. The problem is talent at the end of the day and if we're not going to lose these close games, the answer ain't coming from the upperclassmen. So as far s that's concerned, I'm with you.

But this team just isn't that good. It's never been that good.

 

[Bonk]

He doesn’t have to win a national championship. He does have to win games. We haven’t made the tournament in 4 years. If not next year it will be 5. At some point you become DePaul. And if we aren’t at least a bubble team next year one has to wonder if Hurley is really the guy for the job. Lots of successful mid major coaches don’t succeed at the next level. We don’t know yet if Hurley will. There are some good signs but also worrisome ones. If we are struggling to get to .500 next season, losing to bad teams losing every close game, finding ourselves in last place, I know some people will continue to make excuses. But at some point you need to be accountable and remember it is about wins and losses not almosts.

I don't fully disagree with this post.

The need for wins is more urgent than some posters realize. Being irrelevant in college basketball for this many years could prove to be really lethal for our school's brand. Obviously we have to give Hurley time, it isn't going to change overnight. But Hurley isn't immune to criticism where it is due. There's been a ton of positives we've seen from Hurley and we're absolutely trending up, but there have been some negatives.

Writing off year 3 as another development year where we can't judge Hurley off wins and losses is an awful mindset. That being said I think we will be able to discuss if Hurley should keep his job after year 4.

 

[Shine33]

Why don't we point out stats for the whole team now if you want glaringly obvious? Why just throw it at one position? They block shots, play good defense and lost Polley. They have the worst offense from most any position, you want some glare? LOL For a guy who thinks he knows a lot of people who played the game at a high standard not sure what you think guards are going to do with crappy support. Watch the game please, no one gets open. Everyone passes it back to them when they can't take their guy. This team is terrible throughout but we know one things for sure, our guards are our best defenders minus the blocked shots by Akok. And defense after all is what keeps us in all of these games.

I don’t think this is all on the guards. I think our front court is bad too. I don’t why you have to add an argument I never made. But offensively our starting backcourt is horrendous. So is our front court, though once again, I don’t feel like looking up stats to back up my point.

I think it’s clear enough if you just watch (not you specifically just in general). I am extremely impressed with our defense. Can’t wait till Hurley adds more offensive talent bc I think our great defense is a result of his coaching. I mean we can’t even score 60 in regulation in almost every game and he has us competing.

 

[Shine33]

Yeah I guess we're coming at this from entirely different directions. You guys seem to think there's talent on the roster - or at least enough to get it over the hump and I just don't. Not even close.

The core guys on this roster have been a gong show for 3-4 years across two different coaching staffs. If you're still in denial about their actual talent level at this point, i'm not sure what else they've gotta manage to do to get you to that point.

To me - the fact that Hurley has them anywhere near competitive despite being as bad as they've been over a wide sample while also being down their best player is a minor miracle (and the scholly stuff).

And of course they have leadership issues. They had leadership issues when Jalen was here, too. They've been coughing up the ball and turning it over for years now, The best three players on the team are 18 and none of them are automatic scoring threats now - minus Bouknight. But he's in foul trouble seemingly every game. Even if he wasn't - he's not enough on his own.

We have Josh Carlton AND THAT'S IT up front minus Whalley, sort of. And Carlton has regressed to ye olde mean.

Could we have pulled back some of these wins? Maybe - I dunno. But who's taking the big shot? No one can shoot consistently. Who else is he gonna bench and get mad at when they play bad? He's benched Carlton back to his freshman year. He almost stapled Gilbert to the bench yesterday. Maybe we pull some wins back, but i'm not sure any of them are needle movers and most people that are chicken little-ing now, would still be chicken-little-ing.

To me this group are what they are - whatever we get out of them we get. I appreciate them sticking it out, but outside of that, they're just not good enough to get the job done.

I'm certainly in the camp of Hurley playing the kids more. I've certainly seen him make his mistakes this year. But they haven't been killer. The problem is talent at the end of the day and if we're not going to lose these close games, the answer ain't coming from the upperclassmen. So as far s that's concerned, I'm with you.

But this team just isn't that good. It's never been that good.

This is it right here. This encompasses almost exactly what I have not been able to articulate in my posts

 

[Shine33]

@mauconnfan after reading both of our posts over again i don’t think there is anything we disagree on. I think you misunderstood me and thought I’m blaming only the guards. I’m not. But I do think the guards have been terrible offensively and to be fair I’m most frustrated with them bc classically our guards have been the strength of our National Championship level program so I’m very depressed tbh too see such low level play coming from our guards.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

This year there were just too many questions.

-Front court depth issues were just lost early on it felt like. But if Carlton went bad, we were screwed even if the guards were playing better.

-We have depth issues. Two guys sitting on the bench w/ red shirts and another taken away. So any injury is a killer.

-While sure - I think we all hoped for more from GIlbert and Vital - they're not really any different from what they've been their entire time here. I think people (Hurley included) misjudged that there was more in the tank when there wasn't.

-The freshmen are helpful and are certainly talented. But they're freshmen. Akok has been our best player. But even he hasn't scored the ball a ton. Bouknight looks like he's going to be really, really special - but he's sloppy and handsy on defense and just like Gaffney - there are games where he kind of gets overhwlemed and disappears. Which is TOTALLY normal for freshmen. But we're not Kentucky and even at our best - we never recruited like that anyway.

-Oh and we lost our best scorer. Who was gonna be the guy?

So even if ALL THAT fell our way - which you know it probably won't - we're MAYBE a bubble team that's teetering on exploding at literally any time.

Look I don't like Hurley - I love Hurley - I think he's been great. But I think if you got him behind closed doors and got his honest take - it's what i'm talking about above. And right now he's balancing winning a few extra games now vs. building a program and winning. And figuring out how to not totally embarrass ourselves without compromising the kinds of values and culture he wants to have heading forward with players who are actually good. Integrity is like virginity - once you lose it, you never get it back. And I think that's important.

We're not winning the tournament or even *a tournament* this year; and yeah- I think Hurley is totally cool with a record that'd piss most people off. Because all it's about is building a culture, recruiting and getting talent that is going to be part of that next great UConn team on the floor and developing that, period. End of story.

All this other stuff is just ego appeasement, frankly and screw that. I'm all on deck for a big step forward next year and surprising a few people in the Big East... then the year after that? That's going to be pretty close to being business as usual around here.

But expecting that overnight given where this program has been, the pieces that are here, what their track record is, scholly situations - all of it... asking for RESULTS~! this year is a big ask.

You don't have to go behind close doors. The Tulsa pre- and post-game interviews support your view without all the details.

I appreciate that you've laid it out in successievly fuller posts, though I don't think it'll sway those committed to the energy rush of righteous disappointment, whether they're aware of it or not.