On the coach

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Great news though. We don’t need to perform next year either. Can’t wait until I read about how we shouldn’t be expected to win the Big East after all. Built in excuse.

We'll struggle with new reffing patterns and more.
Your programmers will love it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yeah I guess we're coming at this from entirely different directions. You guys seem to think there's talent on the roster - or at least enough to get it over the hump and I just don't. Not even close.

The core guys on this roster have been a gong show for 3-4 years across two different coaching staffs. If you're still in denial about their actual talent level at this point, i'm not sure what else they've gotta manage to do to get you to that point.

To me - the fact that Hurley has them anywhere near competitive despite being as bad as they've been over a wide sample while also being down their best player is a minor miracle (and the scholly stuff).

And of course they have leadership issues. They had leadership issues when Jalen was here, too. They've been coughing up the ball and turning it over for years now, The best three players on the team are 18 and none of them are automatic scoring threats now - minus Bouknight. But he's in foul trouble seemingly every game. Even if he wasn't - he's not enough on his own.

We have Josh Carlton AND THAT'S IT up front minus Whalley, sort of. And Carlton has regressed to ye olde mean.

Could we have pulled back some of these wins? Maybe - I dunno. But who's taking the big shot? No one can shoot consistently. Who else is he gonna bench and get mad at when they play bad? He's benched Carlton back to his freshman year. He almost stapled Gilbert to the bench yesterday. Maybe we pull some wins back, but i'm not sure any of them are needle movers and most people that are chicken little-ing now, would still be chicken-little-ing.

To me this group are what they are - whatever we get out of them we get. I appreciate them sticking it out, but outside of that, they're just not good enough to get the job done.

I'm certainly in the camp of Hurley playing the kids more. I've certainly seen him make his mistakes this year. But they haven't been killer. The problem is talent at the end of the day and if we're not going to lose these close games, the answer ain't coming from the upperclassmen. So as far s that's concerned, I'm with you.

But this team just isn't that good. It's never been that good.

I don’t think we are that far off. Maybe I just don’t like the way everyone uses the word “talent”.

Vital, limited player who could at least shoot. Now he can’t shoot. Is that talent?
Gilbert is worse than last year in almost every way on the offensive end. Talent?
Josh is worse than last year when he shot 60% from the floor. Talent?

This group of players definitely could have won a lot of games we lost. But they’d have to have played the game differently which would set back Hurley‘s designs for how he wants us to play. It is a team that remains worse than the sum of its parts, in part because the parts fit together so poorly. It’s the story of the last 4 years. It’s why I think it’s broom time.

Josh is a microcosm of the problem. If you play him you can’t run man press defense because he can’t defend out that far (or you can and he’s terrible). You also can’t play uptempo on offense because he’s slow. If you pull him, as yesterday, you have zero offensive post presence and you get manhandled down low on defense. Put Josh on a half court, slow tempo, zone team and he’s a useful player. Whaley is a much less talented player than Josh, but a better fit.

 

[uchusky32]

If we could shot we would be undefeated.

 

[Towney007]

I don’t think we are that far off. Maybe I just don’t like the way everyone uses the word “talent”.

Vital, limited player who could at least shoot. Now he can’t shoot. Is that talent?
Gilbert is worse than last year in almost every way on the offensive end. Talent?
Josh is worse than last year when he shot 60% from the floor. Talent?

This group of players definitely could have won a lot of games we lost. But they’d have to have played the game differently which would set back Hurley‘s designs for how he wants us to play. It is a team that remains worse than the sum of its parts, in part because the parts fit together so poorly. It’s the story of the last 4 years. It’s why I think it’s broom time.

Josh is a microcosm of the problem. If you play him you can’t run man press defense because he can’t defend out that far (or you can and he’s terrible). You also can’t play uptempo on offense because he’s slow. If you pull him, as yesterday, you have zero offensive post presence and you get manhandled down low on defense. Put Josh on a half court, slow tempo, zone team and he’s a useful player. Whaley is a much less talented player than Josh, but a better fit.

No we're not far off at all for sure.

I guess my point is on the upperclassmen - and this'll get me some ugly looks but.... who cares about their development? Like OK - let's say they take a step forward - like does it really matter a ton in the long run? Or maybe I should just say instead of 'who cares' is - they're not the priority anymore. Vital's gone this year. Carlton and Gilbert are question marks to even come back. Everyone who's going to be here though - is better and has shown improvement all year.

You and I are 100% eye to eye on Josh. I don't like talking about players like this publicly because we know they read our trash opinions - but I just don't know what the pathway forward for Josh is here. He's the worst possible fit for Hurley's system. Even though you can't tell if Hurley wants to press consistently or not - like you said - you can't use him in that defensive set. And that double sucks when your team's best defensive set is.... pressing.

Like you said - the only real use for him is zone and even that's a roll of the dice most of the time. In the weave he just gums things up. He drags his man out the three point line and guys just stop following him because he's not threatening anyone up there. He doesn't roll or crash well so can't hit him on the back cut... and Vital and Gilbert- usually the guys doing the driving - are kinda bone heads when it comes to taking overly contested shots.... and him leaving his defender in the key for them to collide into literally exacerbates the worst habit they have.

Like I don't think he's LOOKING to screw things up - it's just the way he is as a player is what screws up the offense and worse yet - it also so happens to amplify other players' worst problems. It's wild watching the difference in the offense using Akok or Wilson on the high screen and not him. It's like a different world.

So he can't really help you out in offensive situations, he doesn't play the kind of defense you want to play... I just don't know how they use him. I feel like even with just Springs and Javonte Brown Ferguson in the fold - no matter how raw they might be - he's *totally* the odd guy out. At least Whalley like you said - fits a bit better and hey, he's got a motor. He's not very good, but he gets every drop possible out of what he can do. And if Cliff commits- he's a total goner.

Like everyone keeps talking about Gilbert as the one to go - I think it's 1,000% Carlton before Gilbert. And it's not a knock on Josh, he just doesn't fit here AND he's gonna make SOMEONE pretty happy at a different program. He's probably the epitome of a guy who would really benefit entirely with a change of scenery.

 

[Waquoit]

You want to run Josh off the team? Screw that.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

No we're not far off at all for sure.

I guess my point is on the upperclassmen - and this'll get me some ugly looks but.... who cares about their development? Like OK - let's say they take a step forward - like does it really matter a ton in the long run? Or maybe I should just say instead of 'who cares' is - they're not the priority anymore. Vital's gone this year. Carlton and Gilbert are question marks to even come back. Everyone who's going to be here though - is better and has shown improvement all year.

You and I are 100% eye to eye on Josh. I don't like talking about players like this publicly because we know they read our trash opinions - but I just don't know what the pathway forward for Josh is here. He's the worst possible fit for Hurley's system. Even though you can't tell if Hurley wants to press consistently or not - like you said - you can't use him in that defensive set. And that double sucks when your team's best defensive set is.... pressing.

Like you said - the only real use for him is zone and even that's a roll of the dice most of the time. In the weave he just gums things up. He drags his man out the three point line and guys just stop following him because he's not threatening anyone up there. He doesn't roll or crash well so can't hit him on the back cut... and Vital and Gilbert- usually the guys doing the driving - are kinda bone heads when it comes to taking overly contested shots.... and him leaving his defender in the key for them to collide into literally exacerbates the worst habit they have.

Like I don't think he's LOOKING to screw things up - it's just the way he is as a player is what screws up the offense and worse yet - it also so happens to amplify other players' worst problems. It's wild watching the difference in the offense using Akok or Wilson on the high screen and not him. It's like a different world.

So he can't really help you out in offensive situations, he doesn't play the kind of defense you want to play... I just don't know how they use him. I feel like even with just Springs and Javonte Brown Ferguson in the fold - no matter how raw they might be - he's *totally* the odd guy out. At least Whalley like you said - fits a bit better and hey, he's got a motor. He's not very good, but he gets every drop possible out of what he can do. And if Cliff commits- he's a total goner.

Like everyone keeps talking about Gilbert as the one to go - I think it's 1,000% Carlton before Gilbert. And it's not a knock on Josh, he just doesn't fit here AND he's gonna make SOMEONE pretty happy at a different program. He's probably the epitome of a guy who would really benefit entirely with a change of scenery.

Your back-and-forth makes for an interesting read, but if it stirs up zero-substance vitriol, I'll wish it was a DM exchange that I missed.

An interesting piece of the most recent Hurley interviews is repetition that the older guards are valuable (beyond what fans can imagine) to the younger guys' growth & resiliency. I'll take him at his word, and hope that it shows up with late game confidence that arises out of more options.

 

[tzznandrew]

I remember when people on this board said that losing their best player (from last year) wouldn't matter.

 

[Fishy]

This is not hard.

The upperclassmen, the players that the team would rely on, would all make fine sixth, seventh or eight men on a decent team. But here, they’re 1-2-3.

There’s no mystery as to why we’ve lost more games than we’ve won over the past few years - the players aren’t good enough. You just cannot win your way to the NCAA tournament relying on Vital, Gilbert and Carlton.

 

[Get a Job]

LOL. Yeah expectations are incredibly high. Beat the likes of St Joes and USF and a mediocre Cincinatti team. Win maybe 1 game against a ranked opponent where you have a lead late. Qualify for the NIT. That is my expectation. Other than the folks that thought we would run away with the AAC or that we will win the AAC tournament, not a soul I know and no sane poster(?) was thinking this was a tournament team and even the ones who did think that didn’t expect much of a run. OH and don’t finish last in the AAC. Tell me again why those are such high expectations.

There were TONS of posters who thought this was a tournament team. Some still do.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

unreal

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

To be fair, there's certainly potential. But this isn't the second coming of Zion and RJ Barrett.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

To be fair, there's certainly potential. But this isn't the second coming of Zion and RJ Barrett.

#keepinitreal

 

[UCfor3]

One thing that can't be overstated or ignored. This team has lost like 6 soul crushing games this year including the last 4 and Hurley still has this team playing their tail off. Vital recently commented in an article that in past years, the team felt they had no chance going in to some games. He said this year is different. They are losing close games but the team feels they have a chance. He also said the reason for that is that guy behind me(referring to Hurley). I found these comments from CV to be candid and encouraging. We may not be getting the results in the win column, but things are already changing within the program.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

This team was hurt more by the Polley injury than just losing Polley. He made the game simpler for Gilbert and Vital. Defenses had to account for Polley everywhere on the court because of his 3 point shooting, and that opened holes for Gilbert and Vital and gave both players more space for their own 3 pointers, which may explain some of the drop in shooting percentage. He also opened the post more for Carlton. The fact that all 3 have struggled more since his ACL tear is not shocking.

That said, these players need to realize this, and adjust. They also need to be a smarter and play with more senior/junior poise when they are under pressure. They haven't done it yet, and maybe they can't. If Hurley feels they can't make those adjustments, then play the younger guys more. Now, if Bouknight and Akok and Wilson can start hitting more reliably from the outside, this may revert. Let's hope so.

 

[Towney007]

You want to run Josh off the team? Screw that.

I don't - but I think he's getting run off from the looks of things, he's being heavily recruited over and he clearly doesn't fit in with what Hurley wants to do on the floor. To boot - he's just not going to get minutes next year. Not with Javonte Brown Ferguson, Springs, Akok and even Whalley being a better fit and likely to be bigger developmental priorities. And that's not even getting into a scenario where Cliff or a grad transfer turn up.

I'm just not sure if I was Carlton that i'd want to spend my last year of eligibility playing for a team I won't play much for and for a coach that is mad at me just for being alive generally on a basketball court in a system that's completely incapatable with my game. Especially when he could really help someone else and in certain situations - be a super high impact recruit for someone.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is not hard.

The upperclassmen, the players that the team would rely on, would all make fine sixth, seventh or eight men on a decent team. But here, they’re 1-2-3.

There’s no mystery as to why we’ve lost more games than we’ve won over the past few years - the players aren’t good enough. You just cannot win your way to the NCAA tournament relying on Vital, Gilbert and Carlton.

I keep asking the question, and no one can answer it. How many 4* and 5* recruits do we need to beat Tulsa?

 

[Ricker]

My 2 cents on Hurley so far

Results
We're competing in close games against top 25 programs and power conference competition despite our weaknesses. Previous posts have documented some of the details. We may not have learned to win close games but consider we have refused to lose them at times, (Sid corner 3, Vital 3 FT, @ Houston with the ball down 2 with 7 sec when down by 6 with 12 sec, getting the 5 sec call in the clutch is a team toughness) I think this is a Hurley improvement.

Defense
Our team defense is notably improved. Rim protection is a staple. On ball pressure by Gilbert is a staple. Vital in the passing lanes is a staple. Teams really need to work for open 3's (compared to steady diet of open looks vs St Joes). Defense is giving us opportunity. I think this is Hurley improvement.

Offense
Not making shots game after game is a glaring weakness. A thread a couple weeks ago pointed out that Carlton, Vital, Polley, and Gilbert were all shooting -10% to -15% worse than their career averages. 4 starters that are all of a sudden not able to do what they have been able to do in the past isn't a talent issue per se because the same players were achieving more. Maybe Adams set them up better because he broke down the other defense better? Maybe the scheme has changed? I don't have an explanation. Certainly this is not a big coaching positive.

Roster
Hurley has recruited 4 players that are major contributors. Akok is a defensive stud. Bouknight is an obvious emerging talent. Adams is a vastly improved contributor from his frosh year. Gaffney is clearly growing. I think Hurley should get credit and has upgraded the current roster.

Cole I haven't seen in person and Springs I haven't seen since he has grown and practiced. Jackson is a stud that will be a second Bouknight. Their play will determine the strength of next year's roster vs this year. If Javonte Brown-Ferguson has a significant impact next year Hurley will have really accomplished something, he seems like a player that will need 2 years to be impactful. Recruiting these 4 players is inconclusive until they play, but the additions seem solid, and Jackson on the team is a Hurley win. I don't see Cliff as changing much.

Player Development
This is a mixed bag. Adams and Whaley have for the most part improved. Sid is breaking out and Polley had a threshold game which might have been a breakout. Gaffney is coming along, and Bouknight is getting better defensively. I'm a Carlton supporter and his recognition as most improved last year has to be a Hurley positive, so his inconsistency this year, Gilbert's regression, and the offensive woes have to go in Hurley's negative column.

Conclusion
At the hire, I was is the 'wait and see' group. I think he is doing fine. I don't expect a true UConn team until we get a 5 star alpha dog compliment to the team being assembled. Jackson could even be that player.

 

[auggie22]

I keep asking the question, and no one can answer it. How many 4* and 5* recruits do we need to beat Tulsa?

Scott Hazleton was once a 5* recruit. He did not play much because in retrospect he was overrated.

Do you believe CV and AG are the most talented starting guards in the AAC? Or do you think they are among the least?

 

[Cuse Socks]

I don't expect a true UConn team until we get a 5 star alpha dog compliment to the team being assembled. Jackson could even be that player.

I like your entire post but this one sentence I disagree with.
Hurley has never coached a kid into the NBA from Wagner, URI or UConn. I am not holding my breath for a 5 star until Hurley first develops a 4 star guy or two into the league.

 

[Ricker]

I didn't really express my thought well. First we are looking to Hurley to assemble a team that competes successfully to get to the NCAA tournament. That is current UConn recruiting. Then I think it takes a 5 star alpha type player or underrated 4 star to start advancing deep in the tournament, like a true UConn team, a la Walker, Daniels, Hamilton. I really didn't mean to imply that I was looking for 5 star talent right now to judge Hurley. Both Hurley and the fan base want to chase championships so it eventually requires a sprinkle of that talent.

 

[Fishy]

I keep asking the question, and no one can answer it. How many 4* and 5* recruits do we need to beat Tulsa?

Perhaps people are just polite and don’t want to tell you that your question is moronic.

Fortunately for you, I’m not, so you can finally get your answer.....if you think the various recruiting rankings our upperclassmen received in high school have any bearing on how they’re capable of playing, you’re much, much stupider than even I thought you were.

You can check that one off your list.

 

[Hoophound]

Ouch. That’s gonna leave a mark.

 

[freescooter]

There were TONS of posters who thought this was a tournament team. Some still do.

See my qualification.

 

[BigK73]

Although not great today Whaley has also improved after being glued to the pine last year. Maybe Coach need to lay off the refs a little and get in the face of his players more

You mean he needs to Coach his players so as they come of the floor and make a mistake let them know what they did wrong hold them accountable and then pump them back up ?
Oh wait that's what a coach does Hurley just throws hands up makes a face and complains to ref.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Scott Hazleton was once a 5* recruit. He did not play much because in retrospect he was overrated.

Do you believe CV and AG are the most talented starting guards in the AAC? Or do you think they are among the least?

CV and AG are at least middle of the pack in the AAC. In fact, I think UConn has one of the most talented teams in the league.

 

[imno1]

My 2 cents on Hurley so far

Results
We're competing in close games against top 25 programs and power conference competition despite our weaknesses. Previous posts have documented some of the details. We may not have learned to win close games but consider we have refused to lose them at times, (Sid corner 3, Vital 3 FT, @ Houston with the ball down 2 with 7 sec when down by 6 with 12 sec, getting the 5 sec call in the clutch is a team toughness) I think this is a Hurley improvement.

Defense
Our team defense is notably improved. Rim protection is a staple. On ball pressure by Gilbert is a staple. Vital in the passing lanes is a staple. Teams really need to work for open 3's (compared to steady diet of open looks vs St Joes). Defense is giving us opportunity. I think this is Hurley improvement.

Offense
Not making shots game after game is a glaring weakness. A thread a couple weeks ago pointed out that Carlton, Vital, Polley, and Gilbert were all shooting -10% to -15% worse than their career averages. 4 starters that are all of a sudden not able to do what they have been able to do in the past isn't a talent issue per se because the same players were achieving more. Maybe Adams set them up better because he broke down the other defense better? Maybe the scheme has changed? I don't have an explanation. Certainly this is not a big coaching positive.

Roster
Hurley has recruited 4 players that are major contributors. Akok is a defensive stud. Bouknight is an obvious emerging talent. Adams is a vastly improved contributor from his frosh year. Gaffney is clearly growing. I think Hurley should get credit and has upgraded the current roster.

Cole I haven't seen in person and Springs I haven't seen since he has grown and practiced. Jackson is a stud that will be a second Bouknight. Their play will determine the strength of next year's roster vs this year. If Javonte Brown-Ferguson has a significant impact next year Hurley will have really accomplished something, he seems like a player that will need 2 years to be impactful. Recruiting these 4 players is inconclusive until they play, but the additions seem solid, and Jackson on the team is a Hurley win. I don't see Cliff as changing much.

Player Development
This is a mixed bag. Adams and Whaley have for the most part improved. Sid is breaking out and Polley had a threshold game which might have been a breakout. Gaffney is coming along, and Bouknight is getting better defensively. I'm a Carlton supporter and his recognition as most improved last year has to be a Hurley positive, so his inconsistency this year, Gilbert's regression, and the offensive woes have to go in Hurley's negative column.

Conclusion
At the hire, I was is the 'wait and see' group. I think he is doing fine. I don't expect a true UConn team until we get a 5 star alpha dog compliment to the team being assembled. Jackson could even be that player.

My eyes tell me our d has improved but we are last in league play in scoring d and 10th in defensive fg%. So we are statistically one of the worst defensive teams in the AAC. Surprisingly we are middle of the pack in scoring offense. Coach Hurley has not done a great job yet building a roster. Having two players redshirt especially down one scholarship really hurts. Then when Polley went down we lost our most reliable shooter. But coach is building towards the future and next year should bear some fruit. I just hope we can go about .500 to end the season but it’s going to be a big challenge.