Olympic Team Announced | Page 9 | The Boneyard

Olympic Team Announced

Vowelguy said:
In a general sense I'm gonna disagree here. They could've selected my (deceased) grandmother and they'd still win gold. That doesnt make it right/fair.

And as someone in the corporate world, "results are all that matter" sounds a bit too close to the "our company has been successful so it doesnt matter that we dont have any women, Blacks, Hispanics, etc in lead positions."

I dont know enough about the Nneka situation or the merits of the other players to weigh on this particular matter, but I dont think winning a gold would mean that they did everything right.
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But isn't this team ALL WOMEN, and mostly BLACK, and this is not "rec league" or anything like
"it not whether you win or lose, it how you play the game" or said differently : THE COMMITTEE
put together the " best team" based the their best judgment ( not perfect judgment ).
But I appreciate your skepticism, as the Philosopher George Santayana once quipped:
"Skepticism , like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily".
 
LwrcasefaN said:
We can say it, but people in the selection process...and even reporters can't, but some players no matter how good they are...they aren't good teammates. I was a big Rhyne Howard fan her freshman year. I don't know what has happened to her since, but I wouldn't select her in a pickup game. Her attitude is just horrible! FOR ME...Candace is on this list. Jamelle Bailey.
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Well, USA basketball just selected her for the AmeriCup team and she led the team in minutes per game and points per game. She also had 18 assists to just 6 turnovers over the six games.
 
hoophuskee said:
I am not arguing. And I want to add I don't follow the WNBA much - so to further that I am not arguing. . . But is that what they said in bold? Just curious how do you know this? I haven't read all the tweets and the links. So this was reported that this was said? Where? From an article? From a tweet?

This first part of your statement - when they said "wait your turn"- do you know what the basketball reasons were?

And the 2nd of "we see a big future for you"-- for someone that had to "wait their turn" in which she had to wait her turn for a reason - is it possible some others exceeded certain criteria they were looking for vs what Nneka brings?

So for a committee person or persons to say "we see a big future for you"-- how can that ever be said? If they didn't put Parker on way back -- how can anything ever be so guaranteed that your time will ever eventually come?

All I'm saying is that I would think there were was some defined basketball discussions with Nneka - much more than the broad comments you've made above that I highlighted. Those comments are so broad overall they don't have much/any basketball meaning.
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I'm making up a potential conversation above, but it's pretty close to what Chiney detailed on social media about what had been previously said to Nneka from USA basketball:

Derek Fisher said something similar: Fisher: Ogwumike's Olympics snubs 'a travesty'

"And the 2nd of "we see a big future for you"-- for someone that had to "wait their turn" in which she had to wait her turn for a reason - is it possible some others exceeded certain criteria they were looking for vs what Nneka brings? So for a committee person or persons to say "we see a big future for you"-- how can that ever be said? If they didn't put Parker on way back -- how can anything ever be so guaranteed that your time will ever eventually come?"
Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but in July 2019, Ogwumike was named as one of eight players who committed to participate in USA Basketball training and competition in 2019-20 rather than go overseas. The eight were essentially considered core players for the 2020 Olympics, although the Summer Games, of course, were postponed a year by the coronavirus pandemic. (as Derek Fisher mentioned, Nneka gave up more money overseas to become a core USA basketball player).

"is it possible some others exceeded certain criteria they were looking for vs what Nneka brings?"
For sure; Nneka has been a victim of a glut of great post players available to USA basketball, and her best pro seasons arguably coming in between Olympic selections. In 2016 she was WNBA MVP, but that happened after the Olympic selections were made. Here is her resume of all league WNBA picks:
  • WNBA MVP (2016)
  • All-WNBA First Team (2016)
  • All-WNBA Second Team (2014, 2017, 2019)
  • WNBA All-Defensive Team (2015, 2016, 2017, 2019)

"I would think there were was some defined basketball discussions with Nneka"
I would hope so, though who knows. It's hard to argue Nneka can prove anything else on a basketball court.
 
1. Should players "step aside" to give others a chance? These people are professionals. This is how they earn their living. I'll speculate that being on the US Olympic team translates into more money from endorsements/advertising, etc. so those saying step aside are also asking those players to walk away from income. Is that fair?

2. Does money explain some players being/not being on the team? Who are the Olympic advertisers? Is Nike and other apparel/shoe manufacturers paying for ad space? And if they are writing large checks are they also promoting their players? I know many say that it's favoritism and personal dislike behind the scenes but it could also just be $$$ talking. It might be enlightening to see who is signed to each of the big sponsors.
 
Plebe said:
@UConnCat linked to this piece from an unrelated thread about the Indiana Fever, but it contains an even-handed analysis of the Nneka situation from a basketball perspective.

Scroll down to "Tokyo Rift":

herhoopstats.substack.com

WNBA Dissected: How do you solve a problem like the Fever? Plus more from 2021 Week 6

Examining how Indiana might turn things around, Nneka Ogwumike's omission from Team USA, the lack of WNBA trasparency and more from around the league
herhoopstats.substack.com herhoopstats.substack.com
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I almost posted it here this morning but deleted it thinking enough had been said on Nneka.

Cohen's take is consistent with mine that Nneka's game has slipped since 2018.

The problem that a lot of Ogwumike's defenders don't want to address is that purely on merit and recent performance, it's relatively easy to argue that she shouldn't be on the roster. Griner, Fowles, Charles, Stewart and Wilson have all been very good in recent times, and Collier already gives them insurance as an extra post if necessary. Nneka hasn't been bad, but her genuinely elite peak years were 2016-17 and she hasn't been quite the same force since. Even this year, before she got hurt, she didn't look like enough of a star to be the No. 1 piece on a contending team.

I've said the bigger snub was in 2016 when she was coming off a very good 2014 World Cup and was at the top of her game in the WNBA. The world of WBB was too focused on Parker to notice.
 
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bbsamjj said:
I'm making up a potential conversation above, but it's pretty close to what Chiney detailed on social media about what had been previously said to Nneka from USA basketball:

Derek Fisher said something similar: Fisher: Ogwumike's Olympics snubs 'a travesty'

"And the 2nd of "we see a big future for you"-- for someone that had to "wait their turn" in which she had to wait her turn for a reason - is it possible some others exceeded certain criteria they were looking for vs what Nneka brings? So for a committee person or persons to say "we see a big future for you"-- how can that ever be said? If they didn't put Parker on way back -- how can anything ever be so guaranteed that your time will ever eventually come?"
Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but in July 2019, Ogwumike was named as one of eight players who committed to participate in USA Basketball training and competition in 2019-20 rather than go overseas. The eight were essentially considered core players for the 2020 Olympics, although the Summer Games, of course, were postponed a year by the coronavirus pandemic. (as Derek Fisher mentioned, Nneka gave up more money overseas to become a core USA basketball player).

"is it possible some others exceeded certain criteria they were looking for vs what Nneka brings?"
For sure; Nneka has been a victim of a glut of great post players available to USA basketball, and her best pro seasons arguably coming in between Olympic selections. In 2016 she was WNBA MVP, but that happened after the Olympic selections were made. Here is her resume of all league WNBA picks:
  • WNBA MVP (2016)
  • All-WNBA First Team (2016)
  • All-WNBA Second Team (2014, 2017, 2019)
  • WNBA All-Defensive Team (2015, 2016, 2017, 2019)

"I would think there were was some defined basketball discussions with Nneka"
I would hope so, though who knows. It's hard to argue Nneka can prove anything else on a basketball court.
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Thank you.

I would love to hear more defined. What Chiney said is so broad.

I appreciate the rest of your post as well but it doesn't really define anything, or does it (please don't take my question in a harsh manner.)? In 2015 she wasn't all WNBA. My guess is that's what they looked at for 2016? But I understand- you said basically what Chiney said.

Though I can see this stinks as a fan not to know the real reasons. Would love to know what was it specifically including injury? It seems like we'll never know. They don't have to tell fans. But . . .
 
UConnCat said:
I almost posted it here this morning but deleted it thinking enough had been said on Nneka.

Cohen's take is consistent with mine that Nneka's game has slipped since 2018.

The problem that a lot of Ogwumike's defenders don't want to address is that purely on merit and recent performance, it's relatively easy to argue that she shouldn't be on the roster. Griner, Fowles, Charles, Stewart and Wilson have all been very good in recent times, and Collier already gives them insurance as an extra post if necessary. Nneka hasn't been bad, but her genuinely elite peak years were 2016-17 and she hasn't been quite the same force since. Even this year, before she got hurt, she didn't look like enough of a star to be the No. 1 piece on a contending team.

I've said the bigger snub was in 2016 when she was coming off a very good 2014 World Cup and was at the top of her game in the WNBA. The world of WBB was too focused on Parker to notice.
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Thank you.

That was my initial question if others have pushed ahead of her.
 
bbsamjj said:
Well, USA basketball just selected her for the AmeriCup team and she led the team in minutes per game and points per game. She also had 18 assists to just 6 turnovers over the six games.
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ok, does that mean she doesn't have an attitude? Some people will do anything to win. I'm just not that person.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
ok, does that mean she doesn't have an attitude? Some people will do anything to win. I'm just not that person.
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I don't know why people say Howard has an attitude and I am sure I have seen her play more times than you have. I always thought she had this quiet confidence about her. SC plays Kentucky twice every year and you can see how she interacts with the opposing players. I have seen a lot of SC players go over and hung her after games. I don't see them do it with other players.
 
shiverz45 said:
I don't know why people say Howard has an attitude and I am sure I have seen her play more times than you have. I always thought she had this quiet confidence about her. SC plays Kentucky twice every year and you can see how she interacts with the opposing players. I have seen a lot of SC players go over and hung her after games. I don't see them do it with other players.
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Probably for the same reason that you are "sure" that you have seen her play more than I have. I don't need to see her in person to make that assessment and for certain she doesn't lack confidence. In the humility department...she needs an adjustment. I wouldn't start writing things on my sneakers, tweeting, etc. If I felt "overlooked for some award. I would spend my time getting better now whining. She's really good. She could be great with more focus. For a coach to have to suspend their best player...there's certainly room for improvement.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
We can say it, but people in the selection process...and even reporters can't, but some players no matter how good they are...they aren't good teammates. I was a big Rhyne Howard fan her freshman year. I don't know what has happened to her since, but I wouldn't select her in a pickup game. Her attitude is just horrible! FOR ME...Candace is on this list. Jamelle Bailey.
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If we are to use an "attitude" criteria for Olympic selection then the player picture below would never have been selected for an Olympic team-and that's by her own admission.
1624881477408.png

An "attitude" criteria is what some resort to when they are unwilling to make tough decisions based on basketball ability only. Parker had plenty of attitude before, during and after 2016. For a pick up game, my NCAA team or even in my fantasy league I'll take Rhyne Howard on my squad any day.
 
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Nneka is a great basketball player, and a great human being as well. If anything except an injury prevented her from being named to the team than a huge travesty has occurred. As far as Arike, she is not a team player, only out for herself, and not a match for a Geno or Dawn team. Her appearance would be a disruption to the chemistry and flow of the game, the very thing that USA basketball promotes.
 
Bald Huskie said:
Nneka is a great basketball player, and a great human being as well. If anything except an injury prevented her from being named to the team than a huge travesty has occurred. As far as Arike, she is not a team player, only out for herself, and not a match for a Geno or Dawn team. Her appearance would be a disruption to the chemistry and flow of the game, the very thing that USA basketball promotes.
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So many errors here. Geno is not coaching.
Dawn Staley on Arike:
"Arike’s a tremendous player. I’m finally glad we’re able to get her into our national team pool, where she can play Arike-type basketball. What’s really good about it is that she gets the chance to play with Sylvia Fowles and Tina Charles, Olympians who have been around our program for a long time and learn from them."
www.usab.com

Additional Quotes: USA Women’s AmeriCup Team 110, Paraguay 31

Comments from USA head coach Dawn Staley as well as Diamond DeShields, Sylvia Fowles and Arike Ogunwobale following the USA's 110-31 victory over Paraguay.
www.usab.com www.usab.com
 
CocoHusky said:
So many errors here. Geno is not coaching.
Dawn Staley on Arike:
"Arike’s a tremendous player. I’m finally glad we’re able to get her into our national team pool, where she can play Arike-type basketball. What’s really good about it is that she gets the chance to play with Sylvia Fowles and Tina Charles, Olympians who have been around our program for a long time and learn from them."
www.usab.com

Additional Quotes: USA Women’s AmeriCup Team 110, Paraguay 31

Comments from USA head coach Dawn Staley as well as Diamond DeShields, Sylvia Fowles and Arike Ogunwobale following the USA's 110-31 victory over Paraguay.
www.usab.com www.usab.com
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I know Geno isn't coaching, just saying that he would not have her on the team when he was. As far as her meshing with the other players, I stand by my statement since I have observed her play during her WNBA career. If she makes the team in the future, she would hope that her buddy Martina Mabrey also is there to feed her.
 
CocoHusky said:
If we are to use an "attitude" criteria for Olympic selection then the player picture below would never have been selected for an Olympic team-and that's by her own admission.
View attachment 68232
An "attitude" criteria is what some resort to when they are unwilling to make tough decisions based on basketball ability only. Parker had plenty of attitude before, during and after 2016. For a pick up game, my NCAA team or even in my fantasy league I'll take Rhyne Howard on my squad any day.
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Obviously, attitude matters for some, and others just want to win. And there are different strategies to winning, hence different coaching philosophies. Some folks would rather not deal with the drama. And certainly, they can evolve...for the better or worse. A positive attitude and humility don't just apply to basketball.

I'm not talking about a fantasy league. I'm talking real-life skills, beyond just basketball. Rhyne Howard is a skilled basketball player. I'm not questioning that. Isiah Thomas was left off the 92 Olympic team. It wasn't because he wasn't skilled. SO what was it? Some blame Jordan. Candace blames Geno. My advice is to forget the "snubs" and play ball. There are plenty of solid athletes in the WNBA and other sports who didn't get "awards"...which for me have long lost their luster. There's an award for EVERYTHING!
 
LwrcasefaN said:
Obviously, attitude matters for some, and others just want to win. And there are different strategies to winning, hence different coaching philosophies. Some folks would rather not deal with the drama. And certainly, they can evolve...for the better or worse. A positive attitude and humility don't just apply to basketball.

I'm not talking about a fantasy league. I'm talking real-life skills, beyond just basketball. Rhyne Howard is a skilled basketball player. I'm not questioning that. Isiah Thomas was left off the 92 Olympic team. It wasn't because he wasn't skilled. SO what was it? Some blame Jordan. Candace blames Geno. My advice is to forget the "snubs" and play ball. There are plenty of solid athletes in the WNBA and other sports who didn't get "awards"...which for me have long lost their luster. There's an award for EVERYTHING!
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Candace and the tin foil brigade incorrectly blamed Geno-consider the source! It would be much easier to take your life advice and move on and forget the snubs if this last (Neka) incident didn't happen. It would also be exponentially easier (by your theory) if none of these very talented WNBA players had personalities or the potential to cause drama. They all have personalities which is why "personalities" or the potential for drama should not be a consideration for selection. BTW the selection of Olympics basketball teams and real life should never be confused.
 
Bald Huskie said:
I know Geno isn't coaching, just saying that he would not have her on the team when he was. As far as her meshing with the other players, I stand by my statement since I have observed her play during her WNBA career. If she makes the team in the future, she would hope that her buddy Martina Mabrey also is there to feed her.
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:eek:Is Martina the one on the right or left?
1624889513782.png

:eek:
 
.-.
I can certainly understand why Parker was not picked for the team. While she is a great player, she tends to play a game that requires her team to adjust to her rather than her adjusting to her teammates. One a lesser talented team with her as the major star this certainly works, but on a team of talented players it becomes counter productive. The same could be said for any other ball dominant player.
 
CocoHusky said:
Candace and the tin foil brigade incorrectly blamed Geno-consider the source! It would be much easier to take your life advice and move on and forget the snubs if this last (Neka) incident didn't happen. It would also be exponentially easier (by your theory) if none of these very talented WNBA players had personalities or the potential to cause drama. They all have personalities which is why "personalities" or the potential for drama should not be a consideration for selection. BTW the selection of Olympics basketball teams and real life should never be confused.
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Having a personality isn't synonymous with having a poor attitude. As I said in earlier posts, there are 12 spots. A team is more than just getting the 12 best players. You need chemistry. People get left off...sometimes repeatedly. There's always a snub...no matter who picks the team and no matter how many spots. I personally would have chosen Neka, but that's me.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
Having a personality isn't synonymous with having a poor attitude. As I said in earlier posts, there are 12 spots. A team is more than just getting the 12 best players. You need chemistry. People get left off...sometimes repeatedly. There's always a snub...no matter who picks the team and no matter how many spots. I personally would have chosen Neka, but that's me.
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Having a personality is synonymous with having a pulse. USA basketball is entirely a voluntary endeavor. It is ridiculous to think that player would work that hard to first get invited and make the team and then turn around and display a "poor attitude". BTW looks like Rhyne Howard was a solid pick for that last USA basketball team.
www.fiba.basketball

FIBA Women's AmeriCup | FIBA Basketball Events

Re-live the competition - FIBA Women's AmeriCup. Explore all games & results, stats, highlights, participating players & teams.
www.fiba.basketball www.fiba.basketball
 
CocoHusky said:
USA basketball is entirely a voluntary endeavor. It is ridiculous to think that player would work that hard to first get invited and make the team and then turn around and display a "poor attitude". BTW looks like Rhyne Howard was a solid pick for that last USA basketball team.
www.fiba.basketball

FIBA Women's AmeriCup | FIBA Basketball Events

Re-live the competition - FIBA Women's AmeriCup. Explore all games & results, stats, highlights, participating players & teams.
www.fiba.basketball www.fiba.basketball
Expand ...
 
CocoHusky said:
Having a personality is synonymous with having a pulse. USA basketball is entirely a voluntary endeavor. It is ridiculous to think that player would work that hard to first get invited and make the team and then turn around and display a "poor attitude". BTW looks like Rhyne Howard was a solid pick for that last USA basketball team.
www.fiba.basketball

FIBA Women's AmeriCup | FIBA Basketball Events

Re-live the competition - FIBA Women's AmeriCup. Explore all games & results, stats, highlights, participating players & teams.
www.fiba.basketball www.fiba.basketball
Expand ...
SO...she's a good player. Everyone knows that.
 
.-.
shiverz45 said:
I don't know why people say Howard has an attitude and I am sure I have seen her play more times than you have. I always thought she had this quiet confidence about her. SC plays Kentucky twice every year and you can see how she interacts with the opposing players. I have seen a lot of SC players go over and hung her after games. I don't see them do it with other players.
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It isn't that she has an attitude, IMHO, it's that she's one of the laziest "great" players I've seen in recent memory. WHEN she has the ball in her hands, she's tremendously gifted with what she can do. When she "tries" on defense, she's a monster. But WAY too often she stands around not putting forth any effort.

Granted I've only seen her play about 6-7 times so it's possible a larger pool of games would show something different, but my comments were something I noted literally every time I saw her play, albeit under 10 games in her college career.
 
Side note - maybe not on here, but on other boards I read "Diana should have stepped down to make room for younger players", and her "injury should have precluded her from being on the Olympic team".

So all she does when she comes back in her very first game is score 25 points, 4-8 on 3's, 9-9 from the charity stripe, oh and she dished out 3 assists and grabbed 4 rebounds. If she has a pulse, she's making Team USA. Same goes for Bird. Regardless, both of them are still uber-elite players. They DESERVE to be on the team JUST based on their performance alone this season. Never mind everything else they bring to Team USA.
 
EricLA said:
Side note - maybe not on here, but on other boards I read "Diana should have stepped down to make room for younger players", and her "injury should have precluded her from being on the Olympic team".
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The cawing from the boo-birds accusing Sue and D of "selfishness" for "taking up" a spot is truly absurd. Does this happen in any other sport? I don't hear anyone trying to shame Allyson Felix for qualifying for a 5th Olympics and "taking up" one of only 3 precious spots in the 400 meters.

Ultimately it's just a dog whistle for these committed longtime haters to kick and scream over something, anything.
 
Probably a good thing Diana had some time off. Now well rested, motivated, and abundant supplies of pee and vinegar.
 
So far I have not seen any remarks from Nneka about this and assume she is taking the high road. She was consulted about he injury and probably knew the outcome of the choice before it was made. To me she appears to have class. Disappointed I'm sure. Crushed probably, but perhaps unlike others stirring the pot, knows that it was the injury that took her off the squad.
 
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