Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread)

[LoTrader]

Surprised it took you 7 whole minutes to respond to the reference to Oregon State’s strength of schedule. You’re slipping.

I'll work on being more responsive

 

[JordyG]

Fake media: Oregon State has played 3 x Top 25 teams

Actually only 2, but who's counting. Looking ahead things do get tough. Playing Oregon twice is a task. Scott has held his own this year though, ain't no doubt. I've shined your apple before, but Scott and Jeff Walz are two of the good guys in WCBB.

 

[VA Huskie]

I’m wondering if anyone thinks there’s a “problem” at ND that has produced 2 All Americans (Lloyd and Young) leaving early and 3 very good (or potentially so) players transferring (Patterson, Boley, Prohaska) transferring? I think there’s one more transfer that I’m forgetting. I know transfers are increasing, in general... and UConn has had its share. But is there an issue of some sort at ND?

 

[Plebe]

I’m wondering if anyone thinks there’s a “problem” at ND that has produced 2 All Americans (Lloyd and Young) leaving early and 3 very good (or potentially so) players transferring (Patterson, Boley, Prohaska) transferring? I think there’s one more transfer that I’m forgetting. I know transfers are increasing, in general... and UConn has had its share. But is there an issue of some sort at ND?

Prohaska didn't transfer.

 

[Naples Husky]

Oregon at home down at halftime to Louisville ND WON over USF

 

[Plebe]

Oregon at home down at halftime to Louisville ND WON over USF

The Virgin Islands are a bit far from Oregon to call it a home game.

 

[Ozimoto]

Right now ND is very inconsistent as is to be expected with a young team.

I don't think South Florida is a top twenty five team...

 

[DefenseBB]

Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.

I am researching recruiting by the “top” teams for an article I will update from last year and to be honest, it’s not recruiting that’s hurting ND, it’s transfers out, injuries (who has had more?) and Young leaving early that hurt ND for this season. Think Boley, Nixon, Patberg and Young all on this team. I think one other also transferred out and Vaughn has been hurt for much of her career. Now so is Prohaska. MM will deal with this “down” year in exchange for the NCAAT she got 2 years ago.

 

[Mr.LoveThem]

They lost to South Dakota State 65-59

Nuff said!

oh happy days. When we beat them in December it will feel good BUT I hope we meet them at the Dance so we can bid them adios like they have done to us in the past. Hard feelings? When it comes to ND there is, and let Geno did his one two gig after the ND game (in the tournament) like she did to us last year!

 

[Alydar]

I think there is a certain pattern to their recruiting lately that has left them vulnerable. It seems they have had big classes followed by a one star class and each time the one star has chosen to go pro with the big class ahead of them. Examples are Lloyd and then Young. I think Peters also left early. And then they just had the mass exodus transfer group which impacts their consistency. There is some sort of shake up behind the scenes there looking at it from the outside.

MM mortgaged the future and was lucky that Arike made both those 3's or she would have had nothing for it.

 

[CocoHusky]

MM mortgaged the future and was lucky that Arike made both those 3's or she would have had nothing for it.

How so?

 

[Alydar]

How so?

If she had spread out her classes and starters some of those transfers might not have happened. When you entire starting team are all juniors and seniors together that's 2 years of underclassmen basically sitting. Today's players, with social media and cell phones, find they have other options.

 

[CocoHusky]

If she had spread out her classes and starters some of those transfers might not have happened. When you entire starting team are all juniors and seniors together that's 2 years of underclassmen basically sitting. Today's players, with social media and cell phones, find they have other options.

Does not compute for Nixon, Boley and Patterson specifically. Nixon & Patterson walked away from "likely" starting as Sophomores. Boley started 10 of 37 games as a Freshmen, while Jackie Young got zero starts in the same season. I think as @DefenseBB has pointed out it was the injuries that got ND not transfers out and certainly not a failure to spread the recruiting classes out.

 

[sivad40]

If she had spread out her classes and starters some of those transfers might not have happened. When you entire starting team are all juniors and seniors together that's 2 years of underclassmen basically sitting. Today's players, with social media and cell phones, find they have other options.

No one has mention that she brought in grad transfers twice to supplant sophomore guards who were in line to get starter minutes. She brought in Lili Thompson, and Ali Patberg ending up transferring. She brought in Marta Sniezek and Destinee Walker, and Jordan Nixon transferred.

 

[Alydar]

Does not compute for Nixon, Boley and Patterson specifically. Nixon & Patterson walked away from "likely" starting as Sophomores. Boley started 10 of 37 games as a Freshmen, while Jackie Young got zero starts in the same season. I think as @DefenseBB has pointed out it was the injuries that got ND not transfers out and certainly not a failure to spread the recruiting classes out.

I sympathize with the injuries but without them N Dame would still be losing their entire starting 5. It wouldn't be the nightmare MM faces but even without the injuries they were in a rebuilding year. Who among the roster as of last May had much starting experience or serious minutes? Only the Stanford transfer and that experience was for Tara.

 

[JordyG]

I am researching recruiting by the “top” teams for an article I will update from last year and to be honest, it’s not recruiting that’s hurting ND, it’s transfers out, injuries (who has had more?) and Young leaving early that hurt ND for this season. Think Boley, Nixon, Patberg and Young all on this team. I think one other also transferred out and Vaughn has been hurt for much of her career. Now so is Prohaska. MM will deal with this “down” year in exchange for the NCAAT she got 2 years ago.

As I said, all of those transfers knew before hand that they would be in line to start this year and they left anyway. What does that tell you? As a recruiter you have to know the players you're recruiting, and clearly MM didn't recruit the right type of players for the atmosphere she coaches in.

 

[CocoHusky]

No one has mention that she brought in grad transfers twice to supplant sophomore guards who were in line to get starter minutes. She brought in Lili Thompson, and Ali Patberg ending up transferring. She brought in Marta Sniezek and Destinee Walker, and Jordan Nixon transferred.

I think we are looking too hard to find fault here. MM certainly didn't bring in anyone who caused Taya Reimer or Erin Boley to want to leave. If Ali Patberg was afraid of competing against Lili Thompson then ND made the right choice IMO. Jordan Nixon is from NYC she wasn't afraid of competing with anyone. Kids become unhappy at all programs for different reasons at different times. BTW the ND roster had to be supplemented with walk ons during much of the time that people are accusing MM or chasing people off-does not compute.

 

[Reypl21]

As I said, all of those transfers knew before hand that they would be in line to start this year and they left anyway. What does that tell you? As a recruiter you have to know the players you're recruiting, and clearly MM didn't recruit the right type of players for the atmosphere she coaches in.

I think Nixon and Patterson realized that they weren't going to start, even after the five starters moved on. Patterson even said that one of the reasons she was going to transfer was that MM couldn't promise a starting spot, only significantly more playing time. She seen the writing on the wall that Brunelle would most likely start.

Nixon's case is a little different. Muffett recruited and got an early commitment from Jenna Brown, who was rated much higher than Nixon. Jenna Brown decommitted in the summer, and Muffett had to find a PG quickly. MM never really had confidence in her after her injuries. MM went with the insurance policy of Sniezak. She said she felt like she didn't fit in when she transfered, and I can see why she felt that way.

 

[Reypl21]

I think we are looking too hard to find fault here. MM certainly didn't bring in anyone who cause Taya Reimer or Erin Boley to want to leave. If Ali Patberg was afraid of competing against Lili Thompson then ND made the right choice IMO. Jordan Nixon is from NYC she wasn't afraid of competing with anyone. Kids become unhappy at all programs for different reasons at different times. BTW the ND roster had to be supplanted with walkons during much of the time that people are acusing MM or chasing people off-does not compute.

Reimer and Boley were both players that didn't live up to their rankings at ND. They didn't live up to them either at their new destinations. I think MM was very hard on them, because she expected a lot out of them. They couldn't handle the pressure.

I don't think Boley was going to thrive at ND. She was seemingly a "Westbeld" clone with a better offensive game, at least that's what people thought when she committed. She wanted to be a 3, but at ND she would have to be a 4. IMO, she's Oregon's weakest link their lineup.

Reimer could have been great. She had good size, and a nice faceup game. I remember her games against Florida State and South Carolina were amazing in her sophomore year. She looked like she was coming into shape. I'm not sure what could have happened there. MM really stuck her own neck out when she let the players where the "I can't Breathe" shirts. And Reimer was the driving force behind that.

 

[CocoHusky]

I sympathize with the injuries but without them N Dame would still be losing their entire starting 5. It wouldn't be the nightmare MM faces but even without the injuries they were in a rebuilding year. Who among the roster as of last May had much starting experience or serious minutes? Only the Stanford transfer and that experience was for Tara.

That just not the case. Without a approved waiver exemption Jessica Shepard would still be in uniform for ND.

 

[JordyG]

I think Nixon and Patterson realized that they weren't going to start, even after the five starters moved on. Patterson even said that one of the reasons she was going to transfer was that MM couldn't promise a starting spot, only significantly more playing time. She seen the writing on the wall that Brunelle would most likely start.

Nixon's case is a little different. Muffett recruited and got an early commitment from Jenna Brown, who was rated much higher than Nixon. Jenna Brown decommitted in the summer, and Muffett had to find a PG quickly. MM never really had confidence in her after her injuries. MM went with the insurance policy of Sniezak. She said she felt like she didn't fit in when she transfered, and I can see why she felt that way.

Gotta know the players you're recruiting. What player is guaranteed a starting spot? Those things shake out at practices.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think Nixon and Patterson realized that they weren't going to start, even after the five starters moved on. Patterson even said that one of the reasons she was going to transfer was that MM couldn't promise a starting spot, only significantly more playing time. She seen the writing on the wall that Brunelle would most likely start.
Nixon's case is a little different. Muffett recruited and got an early commitment from Jenna Brown, who was rated much higher than Nixon. Jenna Brown decommitted in the summer, and Muffett had to find a PG quickly. MM never really had confidence in her after her injuries. MM went with the insurance policy of Sniezak. She said she felt like she didn't fit in when she transfered, and I can see why she felt that way.

Still not computing that Nixon leaves because of Sniezak. Sniezak announced her decision to come to ND in April. Nixon announced she was leaving AFTER attending a summer session at ND and while she was at USA basketball playing with the U19 team in July. It took Nixon exactly 1 week to announce her new school.

 

[DefenseBB]

As I said, all of those transfers knew before hand that they would be in line to start this year and they left anyway. What does that tell you? As a recruiter you have to know the players you're recruiting, and clearly MM didn't recruit the right type of players for the atmosphere she coaches in.

What does that say about Geno with Boykin, Lexi, Coombs, AEH, Butler and Z all leaving before their time? Yes I know there are all valid reasons why kids leave (ours AND theirs). We are also thin on experience and Bench and thankfully only have 1 injured player. You never know, you do you’re best and sometimes it just doesn’t work out. She did recruit well, atmosphere at ND can be just as much or more hard on players than UConn if you don’t have the right makeup. To me, MM wants her team to have that “chip on their shoulder” and an “us against the world attitude” and some players don’t like that-Jewell Lloyd, Boley to name two. It happens. One thing for certain with her, she will get the most out of her team this year. This is remarkable in that she also keeps losing coaches now so a newer staff as well.
As I said in the game thread, she’s like Jason/Freddy Kruger you cant just assume she’s dead cuz of a 5-4 record and a few more tough games on the OOC. She has a way of surviving and doing very well when people think she’s down...

 

[Orangutan]

If she had spread out her classes and starters some of those transfers might not have happened. When you entire starting team are all juniors and seniors together that's 2 years of underclassmen basically sitting. Today's players, with social media and cell phones, find they have other options.

Turner was part of a 3 player class in '14. Arike and Marina were part of 2 player class in '15. Young was part of a 2 player class in '16.

That's a pretty normal spread. Jackie just happened to be eligible to leave early. Bri's injury kept her there an extra year and Shepard got her waiver to join the Arike/Marina class.

I don't think Bri and Jackie graduating in the same year was any part of Muffet's plans.

 

[CocoHusky]

What does that say about Geno with Boykin, Lexi, Coombs, AEH, Butler and Z all leaving before their time? Yes I know there are all valid reasons why kids leave (ours AND theirs). We are also thin on experience and Bench and thankfully only have 1 injured player. You never know, you do you’re best and sometimes it just doesn’t work out. She did recruit well, atmosphere at ND can be just as much or more hard on players than UConn if you don’t have the right makeup. To me, MM wants her team to have that “chip on their shoulder” and an “us against the world attitude” and some players don’t like that-Jewell Lloyd, Boley to name two. It happens. One thing for certain with her, she will get the most out of her team this year. This is remarkable in that she also keeps losing coaches now so a newer staff as well.
As I said in the game thread, she’s like Jason/Freddy Kruger you cant just assume she’s dead cuz of a 5-4 record and a few more tough games on the OOC. She has a way of surviving and doing very well when people think she’s down...

OMG! How does that saying go about those that live in glass houses.
Geno once complained that a few of his kids KLS and Napheesa didn't have enough of a chip on their shoulders ie. too nice. Carol Owens is in her her 20th year on the Notre Dame women’s basketball coaching staff. Beth Cunningham is in her 8th season. Neille Ivy left after 12 season on the ND staff for the NBA. How long has Shea been on staff? Marisa Moseley?