Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread)

[JordyG]

I keep coming back to this comparison, but let's imagine that UConn had to play this season without Christyn, Meg and Crystal, and that Olivia were out with injury. That's pretty much what ND is dealing with right now. That would leave us with Bent, Irwin, Griffin, Makurat and Adebayo as our best 5 (and our only 5). I dare say it wouldn't be a pretty picture.

It would be tough indeed. I am not one of the ND haters on this board. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson and Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit and Stevens redshirted. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.

 

[oldude]

It would be tough indeed. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson, Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.

Chong graduated in 2017.

 

[Plebe]

It would be tough indeed. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson, Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.

Chong was a 2017. (Surely you remember her offensive foul in the Final Four?) So UConn had 2 returning starters and all of their rotation bench players (Collier, Williams, Chong) back the following year.

 

[JordyG]

Chong was a 2017. (Surely you remember her offensive foul in the Final Four?) So UConn had 2 returning starters and all of their rotation bench players (Collier, Williams, Chong) back the following year.

Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I just realized late last night that I'm still paying Flohoops since last year for their broadcasts. It's been great watching so much ball!

I have a method: I put the date on the next years calendar: Then I scream at the spouse Why didn't you remind ME???

It would be tough indeed. I am not one of the ND haters on this board. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson and Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit and Stevens redshirted. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.

By all that's holy and the basketball pundits this year, without Westbrook, was supposed to be the year ND is having. I heard no sweet songs for Uconn then. I don't know about ND recruiting recently in the past it was usually top of the line. I suppose the same could be said of Uconn but Geno dug deep and dug far and wide to fill holes. The immediate prospects aren't all golden nor are they dirt. UConn shall more than survive. I hope ND is doing well in March (of course not beating Uconn)

 

[Plebe]

Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.

I made no statement on the cause. Analogy of symptoms, whatever the etiology.

Obviously, recruiting plus attrition is the issue. It has been for UConn as well, by difference of degrees.

 

[CL82]

Yeah, it's not like they beat Notre Dame...oh wait!

Who?

 

[lebronfan23]

I feel like I was the only person in the entire that knew Norte Dame was going to be one of the worst teams in the country this season. Many more loses coming for Muffet this season, but kudos to her not playing a cupcake schedule like some (Mississippi State, Maryland, the Oregon schools).

 

[Orangutan]

You left out walk-ons, of which ND currently has 5 on the roster, one of whom is part of the regular rotation.

Katie Cole is technically on scholarship now.

Which I mention not so much as a correction but because it's a cool accomplishment on her part.

 

[Orangutan]

I’m not a fan of ND, but for the record, MM recruited 5 players that could very well be their starting 5 right now had it not been for injuries (Vaughn & Prohaska), transfers (Patterson & Nixon) and early entry to the W (Young). So ND has effectively lost their top 9 players from last season, only 4 of whom were anticipated. I don’t know how you can possibly plan for that kind of turnover.

That's been my official analysis all year long: "It turns out losing your 9 best players is bad"

You can lay the transfers at Muffet's feet but Jackie going pro, Abby having blood clots in her lungs, and Mikayla spraining her knee in the first game of the season are a bit more unusual.

ND has little size *and* little outside shooting. Not usually a recipe for success.

 

[msf22b]

For me its very simplistic...
I like to see them lose...to us...splendid...to the greater world: better yet.
The feeling is a little like I had watching the futility at UTenn last season...
Interestingly, I'm enjoying see UTenn show some life and spunk and I have a good vibe with regard their new coach.

People here have long memories about the UTenn issues which were discussed earlier in the week.
But I remember much unpleasantness with regard the Irish; mainly Muffet; sexist, hogwash with regard Geno, refusing to applaud for Stewie, coaching her team in the fine art of taking fake charges and drawing imaginary fouls... arrogant displays by her players, not discouraged. They were not gracious winners...and they won some terrific, highly contested games. No complaints about that.

But I continue to sprout a theory...and I'm not going to relinguish it until definitively proven wrong:

Muffet is the empress without clothes.

The real power behind the team is/was Niele Ivey
No Niele Ivey equals weak recruiting and weak guard play.

I can see a mediocre or worse Notre Dame woman's BB for 2 or 3 years.
Then they'll figure it out and bring her back to be head coach.
And she left to set up that scenario.

 

[Dokey]

I think I prefer to celebrate our victories, not someone else’s defeats.
Unless it’s Nebraska doing the losing, of course.

 

[Rb335]

Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.

I think it’s less initial recruiting, and more transfers.
Had all of the players MM recruited stayed, the team would be vastly different.

Starting 5 would be Jordan Nixon, Jackie Young, Erin Boley, Danielle Patterson, Mikayla Vaughn

Then the Irish would have a bench of Gilbert, cosgrove, Prohaska, Brunelle and Peoples. That’s 4 top 70 recruits coming off the bench. Easily a top 10 type team. Maybe her issue is recruiting players who want to stay all four years.

We are just lucky that the timing of 75% of our current junior class transferring didn’t have a larger negative impact.

 

[JordyG]

I think it’s less initial recruiting, and more transfers.
Had all of the players MM recruited stayed, the team would be vastly different.

Starting 5 would be Jordan Nixon, Jackie Young, Erin Boley, Danielle Patterson, Mikayla Vaughn

Then the Irish would have a bench of Gilbert, cosgrove, Prohaska, Brunelle and Peoples. That’s 4 top 70 recruits coming off the bench. Easily a top 10 type team. Maybe her issue is recruiting players who want to stay all four years.

We are just lucky that the timing of 75% of our current junior class transferring didn’t have a larger negative impact.

And somehow you think those recruits didn't know that huge class was graduating? Still they left. A major part of recruiting is knowing the kind of player you're recruiting. There is where I think MM fell down. That and knowing how they would respond to her quick yank philosophy. Also, if all the players Texas, UConn SCar and other colleges had stayed they'd be vying for that top 10 spot as well. If if's were skiffs we'd all be sailing.

 

[LoTrader]

I feel like I was the only person in the entire that knew Norte Dame was going to be one of the worst teams in the country this season. Many more loses coming for Muffet this season, but kudos to her not playing a cupcake schedule like some (Mississippi State, Maryland, the Oregon schools).

Fake media: Oregon State has played 3 x Top 25 teams

 

[cohenzone]

Simple analogy: imagine UConn this year with no returning starters and only true post presence out with injury.

Of course their program is down this year for those reasons So? Obviously it’s likely not fun for their players, but nobody I know goes around looking at programs that are perpetual doormats around the country caring about those programs. And we just beat a P5 team with our senior point guard out, a freshman starter missing half the game and a potential AA center playing with a broken toe and using a senior at forward who GA has been reluctant to play much until forced to recently.

I get that it’s fun playing against good teams, but there was a time not many years ago when only a tiny number of teams could stay within 15 points of UConn. And UConn fans tend to fret if we only win by 7. Heaven forbid this ND team gives us a battle, even in a supposed down year for us. I’m guessing this “down year” will be one that most programs would die for and not cry a bit if we had a truly down year. ND won its first women’s NC when our two senior AA were out with injuries. I doubt their fans felt sorry for us.

 

[Orangutan]

But I continue to sprout a theory...and I'm not going to relinguish it until definitively proven wrong:

Muffet is the empress without clothes.

The real power behind the team is/was Niele Ivey
No Niele Ivey equals weak recruiting and weak guard play.

Niele is a special person and excellent coach. She was an integral part on ND's recent successes. However, I don't buy this theory.

Part of what got ND into this situation was mediocre (by the standards of a perennial top-5 team) recruiting classes in 2017 and 2018 with Niele as recruiting coordinator. ND just signed a very nice 2019 class after Niele departed for Memphis.

Transfers also have hurt ND and if you want to credit Niele for all the successes during her tenure it's only fair to assign her a share of the blame for the transfers that occured while she was there.

Also, there is the very obvious point that Muffet is Ivey's mentor.

In an alternate universe, Muffet retired after last season and Niele was appointed her successor. In that scenario, people would be saying that Niele was overrated all those years as she rode Muffet's coattails.

To echo a famous quip - it's the roster, stupid.

I mean, Marina Mabrey just torched the best club in Europe last week in her first Euroleague game.

Comparing her to Sniezek is like comparing a Ferrari to a used Honda Civic...

Of course the guard play is worse!

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Notre Dame, to me, is like TN! The coaches, administrators, and a majority of their fans are arrogant about the "so-called" Notre Dame effect! They feel as though they're entitled because they're special!
It all comes from the ND Football image and filters down to the other sports!
TN Football has never been as worshipped as ND Football has through the years. TN got most of their WCBB clout from winning big in a lesser competitive NCAA Division I years (pre-1995)! There were maybe 9 - 10 teams that were powerhouses back then, Auburn, VA, LA Tech, Old Dominion, GA, TN, SoCal, Stanford, TX.
IMHO a lot of the top 25 teams today might be able to beat the powerhouses back then as the coaching is better, there are more better athletes, better knowledge of sports training.
I don't throw the players in but there were 2, Parker for TN and Diggins for the Irish

 

[TheGOAT23]

Fake media: Oregon State has played 3 x Top 25 teams
[/QUOTE

.....and the USA team (which didn’t affect their W/L), but they played them and didn’t back down.

 

[jayfromfla]

FGCU has been a solid team for 20 years. Can't believe the coach hasn't been stolen over the years. They are grossly overlooked and underestimated

 

[mbr33ct]

 

[oldude]

Just thought I would throw this in here. While ND appears to have fallen on hard times at 4-4 after losing their top 9 players from last season, the team from Austin, TX is now 3-3, unranked and, as far as I know, they didn’t lose their top 9 players from last season. Wondering if Karen Aston is on a HW watch?

 

[DEpup]

I think there is a certain pattern to their recruiting lately that has left them vulnerable. It seems they have had big classes followed by a one star class and each time the one star has chosen to go pro with the big class ahead of them. Examples are Lloyd and then Young. I think Peters also left early. And then they just had the mass exodus transfer group which impacts their consistency. There is some sort of shake up behind the scenes there looking at it from the outside.

 

[geneticrex]

I'm a simple man. ND goes down, I smile.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Fake media: Oregon State has played 3 x Top 25 teams

Surprised it took you 7 whole minutes to respond to the reference to Oregon State’s strength of schedule. You’re slipping.