Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread) | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread)

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Plebe said:
Eh, loyalty is of relative value.
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Well, it's a value a lot of people on this board (and frankly, on my Stanford board) could learn. You'd think the world was ending because Geno had one bad recruiting season last fall or because David Shaw led Stanford to its first losing football season in over a decade. Fair weather fans that turn that quickly on proven winners who coach, recruit, and model the sport the right way drive me crazy. For the most part, Domer fans stay pretty loyal no matter what. Then again, I suppose having faith against all reason is built right into the brand...
 
HuskyNan said:
No one forced the Big East to take ND’s terms; the Big East sold its soul to get them. Like it or not, ND is a Name that sells tickets and draws eyeballs to the TV - and making money. Blaming ND because Miami, BC, and VTech left to make more money is pretty hypocritical.
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Please. It’s a fallacy that any ND team is attractive because of the name ND. General college sports fans don’t give a hoot about women’s hoops, soccer or hockey. ND men’s hoops is no big attraction. They live off their football and the value they got off of conference affiliation versus not giving up any football value is a fact.
Of course those teams bolted the Big East for money. I’m saying, can’t prove it, that those teams, and for sure BC, don’t leave a league that had ND football in it. ND doesn’t deserve the football mystique, but it’s undeniable. And the Big East with ND in it would have been different from BE football without it. They wanted a conference for their other sports. The ACC at least forced them into more FB games with league teams.

Why the need to be so defensive about ND?
 
I think that the really negative reactions to Notre Dame is, in actuality, a display of admiration. It is an admittance that they have been great competitors and worthy adversaries. The main difference in the two programs is the coach. Geno, for the most part, has a better sense of the highway before him and plans for three or four years ahead, not one or two.
 
Steelerone said:
I think that the really negative reactions to Notre Dame is, in actuality, a display of admiration. It is an admittance that they have been great competitors and worthy adversaries. The main difference in the two programs is the coach. Geno, for the most part, has a better sense of the highway before him and plans for three or four years ahead, not one or two.
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I’m not a fan of ND, but for the record, MM recruited 5 players that could very well be their starting 5 right now had it not been for injuries (Vaughn & Prohaska), transfers (Patterson & Nixon) and early entry to the W (Young). So ND has effectively lost their top 9 players from last season, only 4 of whom were anticipated. I don’t know how you can possibly plan for that kind of turnover.
 
oldude said:
I’m not a fan of ND, but for the record, MM recruited 5 players that could very well be their starting 5 right now had it not been for injuries (Vaughn & Prohaska), transfers (Patterson & Nixon) and early entry to the W (Young). So ND has effectively lost their top 9 players from last season, only 4 of whom were anticipated. I don’t know how you can possibly plan for that kind of turnover.
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I keep coming back to this comparison, but let's imagine that UConn had to play this season without Christyn, Meg and Crystal, and that Olivia were out with injury. That's pretty much what ND is dealing with right now. That would leave us with Bent, Irwin, Griffin, Makurat and Adebayo as our best 5 (and our only 5). I dare say it wouldn't be a pretty picture.
 
Plebe said:
I keep coming back to this comparison, but let's imagine that UConn had to play this season without Christyn, Meg and Crystal, and that Olivia were out with injury. That's pretty much what ND is dealing with right now. That would leave us with Bent, Irwin, Griffin, Makurat and Adebayo as our best 5 (and our only 5). I dare say it wouldn't be a pretty picture.
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You left out walk-ons, of which ND currently has 5 on the roster, one of whom is part of the regular rotation.
 
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oldude said:
You left out walk-ons, of which ND currently has 5 on the roster, one of whom is part of the regular rotation.
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Exactly. In my thought-exercise scenario UConn would surely have added some walk-ons as well, by necessity, just as Muffet has.
 
Plebe said:
I keep coming back to this comparison, but let's imagine that UConn had to play this season without Christyn, Meg and Crystal, and that Olivia were out with injury. That's pretty much what ND is dealing with right now. That would leave us with Bent, Irwin, Griffin, Makurat and Adebayo as our best 5 (and our only 5). I dare say it wouldn't be a pretty picture.
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Who exactly are you comparing to Christyn, Meg, Crystal and Olivia?
 
oldude said:
I’m not a fan of ND, but for the record, MM recruited 5 players that could very well be their starting 5 right now had it not been for injuries (Vaughn & Prohaska), transfers (Patterson & Nixon) and early entry to the W (Young). So ND has effectively lost their top 9 players from last season, only 4 of whom were anticipated. I don’t know how you can possibly plan for that kind of turnover.
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If I recall correctly we recently lost several players through the transfer portal. I think that one thing that sets our young ladies apart is the rigorous training program which, most player and other coaches agree, is more difficult that other programs and that serves us in good stead during the season.
 
HuskyNan said:
No one forced the Big East to take ND’s terms; the Big East sold its soul to get them. Like it or not, ND is a Name that sells tickets and draws eyeballs to the TV - and making money. Blaming ND because Miami, BC, and VTech left to make more money is pretty hypocritical.
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Fine, just don’t trot out the “it’s about academics and the student athlete”, it’s just about money!
 
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wbbfan17 said:
After playing USF tomorrow ND plays Minnesota, UConn, and DePaul. They could legitimately lose 6 games in a row
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legitimately?.................realistically!! :confused:
We all knew this is a rebuilding year for ND. No team can lose all 5 starters, and come back the next season as competitive as ever like nothing happened. When was the last time ND lost 4 games all season, let alone in November? This too shall pass.

A victory over a ND team that is basically “toothless” will be enjoyed because it's ND, but not like it would be if they were top 5 ranked.
 
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Steelerone said:
If I recall correctly we recently lost several players through the transfer portal. I think that one thing that sets our young ladies apart is the rigorous training program which, most player and other coaches agree, is more difficult that other programs and that serves us in good stead during the season.
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I don’t disagree. My point was simply that ND had better players lined up and they all disappeared. Transfers and injuries happen, but usually not 5 at a pop.
 
oldude said:
I don’t disagree. My point was simply that ND had better players lined up and they all disappeared. Transfers and injuries happen, but usually not 5 at a pop.
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Exactly. If Jackie Young and Erin Boley had stayed, that’s two top ten ESPN recruits that are the seniors on this roster. Add them with healthy Vaugh and transfers Patterson and Nixon, and ND would be a top 10 team. They would then be able to have two talented freshman coming off the bench.

Notre Dame is a perfect example of what can happen with this new transfer trend. Some teams land a prized transfer and win the national championship. Other teams recruit well and are left with a bare cabinet at the expense of transfers.
 
Plebe said:
Simple analogy: imagine UConn this year with no returning starters and only true post presence out with injury.
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Very simple but not a good analogy. ND lost 4 players to graduation and a rising senior who declared early for the WNBA draft. You're comparing those losses to UConn losing 2 players to graduation and 3 other starters for unexplained reasons. The losses are not comparable. Griffin, Adebayo, Makurat and Bent wouldn't be the only options if Meg, Crystal and Christyn were seniors last season.
 
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MDoggie said:
There was descrepancy regarding her being offered by UConn.
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A discrepancy? And Uconn was involved?? What is wrong with the NCAA not taking away a recruiting year from Uconn? Don't they wish!!
 
oldude said:
I certainly hope the Irish are enjoying the white sand beaches.....,:cool:
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We are reading about HOW BAD ND currently happens to be. I worry about the UConn effect. ND historically plays way above themselves against Uconn.
 
Plebe said:
I keep coming back to this comparison, but let's imagine that UConn had to play this season without Christyn, Meg and Crystal, and that Olivia were out with injury. That's pretty much what ND is dealing with right now. That would leave us with Bent, Irwin, Griffin, Makurat and Adebayo as our best 5 (and our only 5). I dare say it wouldn't be a pretty picture.
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It would be tough indeed. I am not one of the ND haters on this board. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson and Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit and Stevens redshirted. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.
 
JordyG said:
It would be tough indeed. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson, Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.
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Chong graduated in 2017.
 
JordyG said:
It would be tough indeed. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson, Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.
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Chong was a 2017. (Surely you remember her offensive foul in the Final Four?) So UConn had 2 returning starters and all of their rotation bench players (Collier, Williams, Chong) back the following year.
 
Plebe said:
Chong was a 2017. (Surely you remember her offensive foul in the Final Four?) So UConn had 2 returning starters and all of their rotation bench players (Collier, Williams, Chong) back the following year.
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Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.
 
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JordyG said:
I just realized late last night that I'm still paying Flohoops since last year for their broadcasts. It's been great watching so much ball!
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I have a method: I put the date on the next years calendar: Then I scream at the spouse Why didn't you remind ME???
JordyG said:
It would be tough indeed. I am not one of the ND haters on this board. Yet, in 2016 UConn lost Tuck, Stewie, Jefferson and Chong. The next year Lou was out for a bit and Stevens redshirted. Still made the FF. Notre Dame's recruiting is the issue, not who they lost.
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By all that's holy and the basketball pundits this year, without Westbrook, was supposed to be the year ND is having. I heard no sweet songs for Uconn then. I don't know about ND recruiting recently in the past it was usually top of the line. I suppose the same could be said of Uconn but Geno dug deep and dug far and wide to fill holes. The immediate prospects aren't all golden nor are they dirt. UConn shall more than survive. I hope ND is doing well in March (of course not beating Uconn)
 
JordyG said:
Right. It was Pulido. Neither Pheesa nor Gabby were starters the year before. It doesn't change the fact that ND's recruiting is the issue.
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I made no statement on the cause. Analogy of symptoms, whatever the etiology.

Obviously, recruiting plus attrition is the issue. It has been for UConn as well, by difference of degrees.
 
I feel like I was the only person in the entire that knew Norte Dame was going to be one of the worst teams in the country this season. Many more loses coming for Muffet this season, but kudos to her not playing a cupcake schedule like some (Mississippi State, Maryland, the Oregon schools).
 
oldude said:
I’m not a fan of ND, but for the record, MM recruited 5 players that could very well be their starting 5 right now had it not been for injuries (Vaughn & Prohaska), transfers (Patterson & Nixon) and early entry to the W (Young). So ND has effectively lost their top 9 players from last season, only 4 of whom were anticipated. I don’t know how you can possibly plan for that kind of turnover.
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That's been my official analysis all year long: "It turns out losing your 9 best players is bad"

You can lay the transfers at Muffet's feet but Jackie going pro, Abby having blood clots in her lungs, and Mikayla spraining her knee in the first game of the season are a bit more unusual.

ND has little size *and* little outside shooting. Not usually a recipe for success.
 
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