Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread) | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Notre Dame struggling in Cancun (merged thread)

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What does that say about Geno with Boykin, Lexi, Coombs, AEH, Butler and Z all leaving before their time? Yes I know there are all valid reasons why kids leave (ours AND theirs). We are also thin on experience and Bench and thankfully only have 1 injured player. You never know, you do you’re best and sometimes it just doesn’t work out. She did recruit well, atmosphere at ND can be just as much or more hard on players than UConn if you don’t have the right makeup. To me, MM wants her team to have that “chip on their shoulder” and an “us against the world attitude” and some players don’t like that-Jewell Lloyd, Boley to name two. It happens. One thing for certain with her, she will get the most out of her team this year. This is remarkable in that she also keeps losing coaches now so a newer staff as well.
As I said in the game thread, she’s like Jason/Freddy Kruger you cant just assume she’s dead cuz of a 5-4 record and a few more tough games on the OOC. She has a way of surviving and doing very well when people think she’s down...:mad:

Yup, her controversial comments during last year's FF is a good example. She used her platform to push her agenda, and took the spotlight off her players. Would rub a lot of players the wrong way, especially those who didnt believe in her agenda or how she is trying to achieve it.
 
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Turner was part of a 3 player class in '14. Arike and Marina were part of 2 player class in '15. Young was part of a 2 player class in '16.

That's a pretty normal spread. Jackie just happened to be eligible to leave early. Bri's injury kept her there an extra year and Shepard got her waiver to join the Arike/Marina class.

I don't think Bri and Jackie graduating in the same year was any part of Muffet's plans.

When you bring in 3 grad transfers the underclassmen can't be blamed for leaving. I don't blame MM for trying to win but the price was a roster short of experience even before the injuries. Geno let his 2 seniors dominate the offense last season. Walker was a "disappointment" but we can see she is playing better this year than KLS did last year.

Look, I am not going to bash the Irish now. When a team is faced with what they face this season it's like kicking a person while they lay on the ground. But it's a lot more than injuries to players who never contributed much at all that put them in this spot.
 
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Gotta know the players you're recruiting. What player is guaranteed a starting spot? Those things shake out at practices.
I don't know what to say. I agree, those things go shake out at practice. If Patterson stayed, she would probably be playing out-of-position next to Brunelle for ND. Who knows who would have started at the 4 the first game. She really didn't contribute much for ND, and I don't know who's fault that is. She didn't get more playing time as sophomore, but wouldn't she get more if she was showing results in practice? I know that MM stuck with her starters last year a lot, and possibly to a fault.
 

CocoHusky

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When you bring in 3 grad transfers the underclassmen can't be blamed for leaving. I don't blame MM for trying to win but the price was a roster short of experience even before the injuries. Geno let his 2 seniors dominate the offense last season. Walker was a "disappointment" but we can see she is playing better this year than KLS did last year. Look, I am not going to bash the Irish now. When a team is faced with what they face this season it's like kicking a person while they lay on the ground. But it's a lot more than injuries to players who never contributed much at all that put them in this spot.
The three incoming ND graduate transfers were all guards so what graduate transfers cause forwards Boley, Patterson, & Reimer to transfer?
 
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Still not computing that Nixon leaves because of Sniezak. Sniezak announced her decision to come to ND in April. Nixon announced she was leaving AFTER attending a summer session at ND and while she was at USA basketball playing with the U19 team in July. It took Nixon exactly 1 week to announce her new school.
Maybe she noticed that they were recruiting pretty hard for a PG. ND was going after Bueckers hard, and then of course went hard after Clark. I couldn't tell you. MM didn't have any confidence with her the end of the season. Maybe that's what you're alluding to? Muffett is hard and expects a lot from her players.
 

DefenseBB

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OMG! How does that saying go about those that live in glass houses.
Geno once complained that a few of his kids KLS and Napheesa didn't have enough of a chip on their shoulders ie. too nice. Carol Owens is in her her 20th year on the Notre Dame women’s basketball coaching staff. Beth Cunningham is in her 8th season. Neille Ivy left after 12 season on the ND staff for the NBA. How long has Shea been on staff? Marisa Moseley?
What? I am not impugning our coaching AT ALL. I (and I hate saying it) am saying ND is fine despite transfers, injuries and Ivey leaving. Duffy also recently left so she has had changeover in staff as well. You’re reading into things that are not there.
Jordy is worried about MM and her recruiting, I am not, just like because our team had unusual turnover, I am not overly concerned about that either.
Not sure what your thought or what your reply meant other than maybe misunderstanding my point.
 

CocoHusky

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Maybe she noticed that they were recruiting pretty hard for a PG. ND was going after Bueckers hard, and then of course went hard after Clark. I couldn't tell you. MM didn't have any confidence with her the end of the season. Maybe that's what you're alluding to? Muffett is hard and expects a lot from her players.
In my experience the coaches that don't expect a lot from their players end up getting exactly that. I'm not sure that's what you intended but you are giving me some very good reason to like MM.
 

CocoHusky

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What? I am not impugning our coaching AT ALL. I (and I hate saying it) am saying ND is fine despite transfers, injuries and Ivey leaving. Duffy also recently left so she has had changeover in staff as well. You’re reading into things that are not there.
Jordy is worried about MM and her recruiting, I am not, just like because our team had unusual turnover, I am not overly concerned about that either.
Not sure what your thought or what your reply meant other than maybe misunderstanding my point.
You guys are really digging deep and coming up so empty. Duffy the current coach at Marquette?
Megan Duffy played at ND. Duffy was never on the ND coaching staff. No need to check facts here if your intent is to pile on.
 
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Orangutan

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When you bring in 3 grad transfers the underclassmen can't be blamed for leaving. I don't blame MM for trying to win but the price was a roster short of experience even before the injuries. Geno let his 2 seniors dominate the offense last season. Walker was a "disappointment" but we can see she is playing better this year than KLS did last year.

Umm...the post I was responding to didn't say anything about grad transfers...

I was responding specifically to the idea that McGraw didn't "spread out her classes."

So while your post quotes mine it is not responsive in a meaningful way.

Besides which, I strongly doubt that those players transfers because of incoming grad transfers. But we're all just guessing here.
 
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The three incoming ND graduate transfers were all guards so what graduate transfers cause forwards Boley, Patterson, & Reimer to transfer?
Shepard, who those players knew might stay for 2 years. No one knows when they were aware of her coming in.
 

JordyG

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What does that say about Geno with Boykin, Lexi, Coombs, AEH, Butler and Z all leaving before their time? Yes I know there are all valid reasons why kids leave (ours AND theirs). We are also thin on experience and Bench and thankfully only have 1 injured player. You never know, you do you’re best and sometimes it just doesn’t work out. She did recruit well, atmosphere at ND can be just as much or more hard on players than UConn if you don’t have the right makeup. To me, MM wants her team to have that “chip on their shoulder” and an “us against the world attitude” and some players don’t like that-Jewell Lloyd, Boley to name two. It happens. One thing for certain with her, she will get the most out of her team this year. This is remarkable in that she also keeps losing coaches now so a newer staff as well.
As I said in the game thread, she’s like Jason/Freddy Kruger you cant just assume she’s dead cuz of a 5-4 record and a few more tough games on the OOC. She has a way of surviving and doing very well when people think she’s down...:mad:
Boykin and AEH left for non basketball reasons. Lexi and Coombs got one good look at CW and CD and realized they weren't going to play the next few years. Butler also left because she knew she wasn't going to play. Most of the players that transferred from ND knew the opposite, that they were going to play. They left any way. Z did exactly what Jackie did.
To me, MM wants her team to have that “chip on their shoulder” and an “us against the world attitude” and some players don’t like that-Jewell Lloyd, Boley to name two. It happens. One thing for certain with her, she will get the most out of her team this year. This is remarkable in that she also keeps losing coaches now so a newer staff as well.
I agree with what you say here. Again, ya gotta have a better idea of what you're recruiting.
 
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CocoHusky

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Shepard, who those players knew might stay for 2 years. No one knows when they were aware of her coming in.
Don't think so! By the time Shepard transferred to ND Boley was already at Oregon and Reimer was already at Michigan State. Patterson was in her Senior year of HS.
 
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Don't think so! By the time Shepard transferred to ND Boley was already at Oregon and Reimer was already at Michigan State. Patterson was in her Senior year of HS.

Unless someone was in the locker room and the coaches' offices no one knows what happened but it's clear that MM put all her eggs in one basket, won a title, failed to defend it and was left with little experience on her roster before the injuries occurred. To explain the Irish woes by pointing to the injuries is putting on blinders to the last 2 years.
 

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Unless someone was in the locker room and the coaches' offices no one knows what happened but it's clear that MM put all her eggs in one basket, won a title, failed to defend it and was left with little experience on her roster before the injuries occurred. To explain the Irish woes by pointing to the injuries is putting on blinders to the last 2 years.
mortgage.jpg
 

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Unless someone was in the locker room and the coaches' offices no one knows what happened but it's clear that MM put all her eggs in one basket, won a title, failed to defend it and was left with little experience on her roster before the injuries occurred. To explain the Irish woes by pointing to the injuries is putting on blinders to the last 2 years.
"No one knows what happened but it's clear" Lol. The irony astounds.
 
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CocoHusky

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Unless someone was in the locker room and the coaches' offices no one knows what happened but it's clear that MM put all her eggs in one basket, won a title, failed to defend it and was left with little experience on her roster before the injuries occurred. To explain the Irish woes by pointing to the injuries is putting on blinders to the last 2 years.
Got it! " no one knows what happened": "but it's clear that MM put all her eggs in one basket".
I'd respect this perspective much more if you just came right out and said: I don't like MM or anything about ND or the way MM runs her program.
 
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Shepard, who those players knew might stay for 2 years. No one knows when they were aware of her coming in.
Shephard announced she was transferring from Nebraska on March 27, 2017.

Boley announced she was transferring from Notre Dame on April 10, 2017.

Boley announced she was transferring to Oregon on May 30, 2017.

Shepard annoucned she was transferring to Notre Dame on June 1, 2017.

I didn't realize that their transfer situations was that close.
 
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And for the record I don't dislike MM. I've never met her. She's one of the best coaches in wcbb. But for years some fans have pointed to how well she uses her bench, getting her young players experience, in contrast to Geno who gets constantly criticized by some for playing 6 or 7. But when given the chance she chose to play a short bench for 2 years, bringing in a 2 year transfer. Now she is paying for it. The injuries are just making a bad situation worse. They aren't the principal factor, no matter how hard the Irish apologists spin it.

The stats are my evidence

2018 - starters average mins/game
33
30
32
28
31
total average starter minutes = 154

2019 - starters averaged
34
29
34
34
26
total average starter minutes = 157 mins/game
 
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[QUOTE="JordyG, post: 3349566, member: 6819"
...Butler also left because she knew she wasn't going to play.

Perhaps a slight correction to your post but our understanding is that Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason to pursue a graduate degree in global governance and public management. UCONN did not offer such a degree. Another likely consideration for her selecting George Mason is that it was near her home.
 
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[QUOTE="JordyG, post: 3349566, member: 6819"
...Butler also left because she knew she wasn't going to play.

Perhaps a slight correction to your post but our understanding is that Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason to pursue a graduate degree in global governance and public management. UCONN did not offer such a degree. Another likely consideration for her selecting George Mason is that it was near her home.
Right. That and knowing she wasn’t going to play much.
 

Dillon77

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And for the record I don't dislike MM. I've never met her. She's one of the best coaches in wcbb. But for years some fans have pointed to how well she uses her bench, getting her young players experience, in contrast to Geno who gets constantly criticized by some for playing 6 or 7. But when given the chance she chose to play a short bench for 2 years, bringing in a 2 year transfer. Now she is paying for it. The injuries are just making a bad situation worse. They aren't the principal factor, no matter how hard the Irish apologists spin it.

The stats are my evidence

2018 - starters average mins/game
33
30
32
28
31
total average starter minutes = 154

2019 - starters averaged
34
29
34
34
26
total average starter minutes = 157 mins/game
MM ignored her bench for 2 years.

You never know what you'll "come back to" after a chock-full Thanksgiving weekend.

Thanks as usual for your provoking post. I can see how you arrived at your assessment of MM's management of the bench in 2018-2019. I'm not sure "ignored" is the word I'd employ, but she decided "not to use available sophomore and freshman personnel -- for various reasons -- for sure; at least as I saw it develop. And one might make the argument it came back to bite her this year, but you never quite know the reasons behind "retention" and "transfers."

However, I don't think MM was ignoring her bench players at all in the 2018-19 season. Unfortunately, the number of available players on the bench kept getting on crutches. It started with Brianna Turner taking the entire year off to rehab the ACL injury suffered against Purdue in the NCAAs.
Then, spunky Mychael Johnson blew out her knee during practice. She would've been a combo guard who played tough defense.

Still, in the early part of the season, there were four players getting ample court time:
- Transfer guard Lili Thompson was averaging 27.1 minutes in the 14 games she appeared in before succumbing to an injury;
- Freshman Center Mik Vaughn averaged 13.2 minutes in the 6 games she played before her knee went.
After losing those two players, MM relied on two players from there on in:
- Grad Student Kristina "Koko" Nelson averaged 15.8 minutes per game for the whole season, spelling Jess Shepard and Kat Westbeld; and,
- Frosh Danielle Patterson played 12.5 minutes a game, primarily at the forward position.

There simply were no other scholarship players left to mix in that season. In fact, walk-on guard was gettting floor time in the latter part of the season and during NCAA games. If Johnson, Thompson and Vaughn had not been injured, they would've played: Johnson played the previous season and Thompson and Vaughn were getting minutes.

Here's the stats from that year:
 
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That just not the case. Without a approved waiver exemption Jessica Shepard would still be in uniform for ND.
Maybe. Stevens had to sit a year and after playing one season she left. There's also a possibility that Westbrook will do the same.
 

Plebe

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Getting back to the Cancun tourney, the Irish turned things sound and got a fairly nice win against USF.
Emphasis on "fairly" :rolleyes:
 
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