Not Developing or Not Identifying Talent? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Not Developing or Not Identifying Talent?

FWIW in this same timeframe this is how many players have transferred from other top programs. Only counting the recruiting classes since 2018.

UNC- 2
Villanova- 2
Duke- 2
UCLA- 2
Michigan- 5
Creighton- 3

UConn- 6
In the last handful of years, I wouldn't say our peer group is the first four of that list (UNC, Villanova, Duke, UCLA) as they've been more the creme de la creme/stable and we've been rebuilding with a new coach.
 
4/14 is not a good rate.

I have a question too, what exactly did Bouknight, Jackson, and Sanogo get better at?
It's not 4/14, for a few reasons. First, there were 13 players. Second, even if I'm very generous with the list it's 5/13 that haven't developed

Success - Bouknight, Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins


TBD - Springs, Diggins, Floyd, Johnson

I also have no idea why Sid Wilson who is a KO recruit is on the list and guys like Whaley and Polley who played 4 years for Hurley are not. Just seems like a cherry picked list.

Bouknight became an NBA lottery pick, but yeah other than that didn't get better. Sanogo's defense improved a ton from year 1 to year 2, and he just was BE 1st team all conference. Jackson went from a guy who couldn't score year 1 to shooting 36% from 3 (on low volume) while averaging 7/7/3 and playing elite perimeter defense
 
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Did you know? We improved every year

Did you know? There are 1,300 kids in the transfer portal, and counting. That's about 4 per school average

Did you know? We've landed better players than we lost via transfers in the Hurley regime

Does any of that matter?
 
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All of the stats regarding player transfer are clouded by a number of things, including the introduction of the portal, and extended eligibility. Hurley is not perfect, but to question whether players improve under his tuteledge is seems unfair.
 
Any concerns about what Geno is doing wrong?

Even national champions are losing key players.

What the heck is going on out there? Vince Lombardi


It's a different world people. Adapt or demise. We're good
 
National Champions Kansas in the last 2 years only - 6
Shoot. Well that’s convenient. Promise I didn’t leave them out on purpose. Lol

They are an exception there. I’m sure Kentucky has a lot too but I don’t want to be like Kentucky.
 
In the last handful of years, I wouldn't say our peer group is the first four of that list (UNC, Villanova, Duke, UCLA) as they've been more the creme de la creme/stable and we've been rebuilding with a new coach.
That’s where we want to be though.
 
It's not 4/14, for a few reasons. First, there were 13 players. Second, even if I'm very generous with the list it's 5/13 that haven't developed

Success - Bouknight, Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins



TBD - Springs, Diggins, Floyd, Johnson

I also have no idea why Sid Wilson who is a KO recruit is on the list and guys like Whaley and Polley who played 4 years for Hurley are not. Just seems like a cherry picked list.

Bouknight became an NBA lottery pick, but yeah other than that didn't get better. Sanogo's defense improved a ton from year 1 to year 2, and he just was BE 1st team all conference. Jackson went from a guy who couldn't score year 1 to shooting 36% from 3 (on low volume) while averaging 7/7/3 and playing elite perimeter defense
Yeah we can remove Sid. I don’t want to excuse injuries too much either. Alterique suffered two shoulder injuries and larrier sufferer an ACL and both were still fine for the most part. Gilbert was all conference, Larrier averaged his career high in his last season.

Did Bouknight significantly improve his game or did he just get more playing time and usage along with everyone else on the list?
 
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I've been looking at Dan Hurley's record with incoming freshman. I think I have covered everyone and it's not the best look. In four years we've developed 4 players that I'd consider starting caliber players (bouk, Jackson, sanogo and Hawkins)

It seems rather arbitrary that you would not include transfers especially given the current landscape. Cole and Martin were certainly starting caliber Big East players. Akok would have been a starter if not for the devastating achilles injury.

Vital developed into a first team all AAC player under Hurley's guidance, and Whaley developed into the Big East defensive player of the year but I know that doesn't fit into your slanted agenda.

BTW its really only been 3 full recruiting seasons not 4, tough to come in under the old rules and recruit a stellar class in April. To Dan Hurley's credit he was loyal to Ollie's recruits and didn't push them out the door.
 
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How often does anyone strive to be like everyone else? Did you seek the median in law school?
You are making the assumption that a good coach can recruit all four star players to a 13 man roster and have the five who aren’t getting real playing time satisfied in staying under the new transfer rules. What I’m asking is whether anyone has evidence that other coaches are doing this, or whether people are just making up things to whine about it.

(I won’t even say where the smart money is in your case.)
 
FWIW in this same timeframe this is how many players have transferred from other top programs. Only counting the recruiting classes since 2018.

UNC- 2
Villanova- 2
Duke- 2
UCLA- 2
Michigan- 5
Creighton- 3

UConn- 6
Gonzaga- 1
MSU- 3
Arizona- 4
 
It seems rather arbitrary that you would not include transfers especially given the current landscape. Cole and Martin were certainly starting caliber Big East players. Akok would have been a starter if not for the devastating achilles injury.

Vital developed into a first team all AAC player under Hurley's guidance, and Whaley developed into the Big East defensive player of the year but I know that doesn't fit into your slanted agenda.

BTW its really only been 3 full recruiting seasons not 4, tough to come in under the old rules and recruit a stellar class in April. To Dan Hurley's credit he was loyal to Ollie's recruits and didn't push them out the door.

No doubt Vital became better under Hurley mostly his attitude for sure. Whaley I disagree. He was waiting in wings and until there were injuries and he needed to play him no one recognized the impact he would bring. That one was a combo of Dan Hurley and the prior staff as well as just a kid who worked his butt off to be part of the program. Most of the kudos to Isaiah himself on this one.
 
No doubt Vital became better under Hurley mostly his attitude for sure. Whaley I disagree. He was waiting in wings and until there were injuries and he needed to play him no one recognized the impact he would bring. That one was a combo of Dan Hurley and the prior staff as well as just a kid who worked his butt off to be part of the program. Most of the kudos to Isaiah himself on this one.
Another example of Hurley being forced to play a player to only find out he should’ve been playing him more.
 
Yeah we can remove Sid. I don’t want to excuse injuries too much either. Alterique suffered two shoulder injuries and larrier sufferer an ACL and both were still fine for the most part. Gilbert was all conference, Larrier averaged his career high in his last season.

Did Bouknight significantly improve his game or did he just get more playing time and usage along with everyone else on the list?
The reason I listed the injury for Akok is it's an Achilles injury which is a really tough injury to come back from, especially for a guy who's game is all about his athleticism

I think Bouk significantly improved his game, he was somewhere around the 50th recruit in his class coming out of HS which doesn't make him a lock to become a lottery pick.

But I'm also not sure it really matters, the question was is Hurley not identifying or not developing talent. So whether he developed Bouknight or saw a HS recruit ranked in the 60s that was so good he could make the NBA in spite of Hurley's awful development, that's a success based on the premise
 
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I don't think player development is an issue. Look at how much better CV got under Hurley. Jackson got a lot better this year. Bouknight got so much better. Sanogo has come really far. Martin got better. Whaley got better.

The only guys that didn't get better are guys who lost a lot of time to injury and Gaffney. The rest are tbd
CV got better despite Ollie and possibly Dan Hurley. CV got better because he wasn't going to allow anything or anybody to stop him. That kid had the will to win the day he walked onto the campus. No one challenged him more than himself. Maximized his potential which is pretty rare in all walks of life. He took what he needed and left the rest and then gave back everything on the floor.
 
I think Hurley could have handled certain players differently (Diggins, Floyd), but most of the guys who work hard and show toughness have improved as much or more than expected in my opinion. I think that certain personalities don't blend that well with the way that Hurley runs the program, and that has probably led to some falling outs. Except for Gilbert, who was solid enough at Wich St, I don't really think anyone who transferred out in the Hurley era has had too much success at their next school.

In 2019, we all expected big things from both Gaffney and Akok's respective careers, and it's sad that they didn't rise to those heights, but I don't think I can blame Hurley for it not panning out that way. Akok's injury derailed him and now he's looking for a new beginning as a guy who will be 23 at the start of next season. Gaffney unfortunately just didn't seem to have a killer instinct and would get in his own head after every mistake. Sad to see them go and grateful they came here when the program was struggling, wish them nothing but success as long as they don't wind up in the BE.
 
It's not 4/14, for a few reasons. First, there were 13 players. Second, even if I'm very generous with the list it's 5/13 that haven't developed

Success - Bouknight, Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins


TBD - Springs, Diggins, Floyd, Johnson

I also have no idea why Sid Wilson who is a KO recruit is on the list and guys like Whaley and Polley who played 4 years for Hurley are not. Just seems like a cherry picked list.

Bouknight became an NBA lottery pick, but yeah other than that didn't get better. Sanogo's defense improved a ton from year 1 to year 2, and he just was BE 1st team all conference. Jackson went from a guy who couldn't score year 1 to shooting 36% from 3 (on low volume) while averaging 7/7/3 and playing elite perimeter defense
Springs, Diggins, and Floyd are all failures. Anyone who you bring on campus and they simply never play can’t be “tbd”. I have high hopes for Hawkins this year, but he still has a lot to prove before he can be a success.
 
You are making the assumption that a good coach can recruit all four star players to a 13 man roster and have the five who aren’t getting real playing time satisfied in staying under the new transfer rules. What I’m asking is whether anyone has evidence that other coaches are doing this, or whether people are just making up things to whine about it.

(I won’t even say where the smart money is in your case.)
See Nova.
 
Springs, Diggins, and Floyd are all failures. Anyone who you bring on campus and they simply never play can’t be “tbd”. I have high hopes for Hawkins this year, but he still has a lot to prove before he can be a success.
Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view
 
Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view
It is not narrow minded it is reality. Clearly those guys weren’t good enough to get the minutes they wanted so that is either misevaluation or miscommunication. Dan himself said he is going to have to be more honest with recruits so even he is acknowledging some failure there.
 
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The reason I listed the injury for Akok is it's an Achilles injury which is a really tough injury to come back from, especially for a guy who's game is all about his athleticism

I think Bouk significantly improved his game, he was somewhere around the 50th recruit in his class coming out of HS which doesn't make him a lock to become a lottery pick.

But I'm also not sure it really matters, the question was is Hurley not identifying or not developing talent. So whether he developed Bouknight or saw a HS recruit ranked in the 60s that was so good he could make the NBA in spite of Hurley's awful development, that's a success based on the premise
Bouk was an NBA talent from day 1. I think his first game he was making clutch shots and scoring seamlessly. The only person holding him back was Hurley not playing him enough until forced too. He’s also the rare exception compared to everyone else. His best recruit didn’t get 25+ minutes a game until injuries. A very clear NBA talent. But we’re suppose to believe he knows who to play or not from practice?
 
Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view
They were a failure for our program. If they go somewhere else and blossoms that’s even a bigger indictment on Hurley.
 
Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under Dan Hurley. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from Dan Hurley. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.
 
Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under Dan Hurley. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from Dan Hurley. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

What are you doing wasting your time on the Boneyard? Get your resume over the AD Dave asap.
 
Sid Wilson - transfer inherited player, shouldnt be on this list.
Brendan Adams - transfer was a solid gap filler, transferred to more minutes once the talent level increased
Bouknight - nba lottery pick
Akok - transfer injury derailed his college career
Gaff - transfer something went wrong here
Sanogo - current starter likely preseason all american next year
Jackson - current starter captain of the team next year
Springs - minimal minutes likely on track with his development plan
Javonte Brown - transfer realistically a guy that probably wasn't ready to contribute until year 3/4
Corey Floyd - transfer wish we couldve kept him but tbd
Diggins - transfer wish we couldve kept him but tbd
Samson Johnson - minimal minutes likely on track with his development plan
Jordan Hawkins - solid player. Likely starter as sophomore as advertised thus far
Wish we would’ve kept Diggins? We will see what the future holds, but the kid legitimately could not get the ball pass half court- people can keep complaining Hurley didn’t give him enough PT, but when you are that bad what does the current players & future recruits think when a player is getting minutes who doesn’t deserve them. Come 2025- looking back I don’t believe he will be a player “we wish we could’ve kept.”
 
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