Not Developing or Not Identifying Talent?

[navery12]

What are you talking about? When did I ever say that? The staff has clearly made some bad evaluations the past few cycles, but it clearly makes you feel better to ignore those.

I'm not denying there were some poor evaluations, stop moving the goalposts. You said Floyd is a failure because he transferred from UConn. All I'm saying is we have no idea what Floyd is because he hasn't played a single minute yet, so locking him in in any group doesn't work me, failure or success.

 

[CheshireCat]

I've been looking at DH's record with incoming freshman. I think I have covered everyone and it's not the best look. In four years we've developed 4 players that I'd consider starting caliber players (bouk, Jackson, sanogo and Hawkins)

Sid Wilson - transfer
Brendan Adams - transfer
Bouknight - nba
Akok - transfer
Gaff - transfer
Sanogo - current starter
Jackson - current starter
Springs - minimal minutes
Javonte Brown - transfer
Corey Floyd - transfer
Diggins - transfer
Samson Johnson - minimal minutes
Jordan Hawkins - solid player. Likely starter as sophomore

The reasons why guys on the above list didn't work out are all over the map. We've also entered the transfer portal era. Which changes everything and hit us hard this year.

I'm not 100% sure what to make of this. We've clearly improved. NCAA two years in a row is improvement. But if this was the pre-portal era I'd think DH is in significant trouble. Four players in four years that actually see legit playing time..... combined with a massive number of transfers. DH definitely needs to do better and I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm not sure if he's struggling to develop players or struggling to identify talent.

One thing we do have going for us. Of the 4 players that I identified earlier, 3 of them are still on the team and will be starting next year.

This is a custom designed “I’ll set them up, you knock them down” thread for the CheshireCat….but I won’t bother - my work is done here. Carry on, and spread the word for me my brethren! . I think Kimani Young would hit the portal if coaches could do the same.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

I'm not denying there were some poor evaluations, stop moving the goalposts. You said Floyd is a failure because he transferred from UConn. All I'm saying is we have no idea what Floyd is because he hasn't played a single minute yet, so locking him in in any group doesn't work me, failure or success.

I mean he can be a success for his next school for sure, but I don’t see how he can be a success for us.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is a custom designed “I’ll set them up, you knock them down” thread for the CheshireCat….but I won’t bother - my work is done here. Carry on, and spread the word for me my brethren! . I think Kimani Young would hit the portal if coaches could do the same.

The Portal is going to get less deep every season until the final Covid classes are gone. All of these players using their extra year of eligibility and the one-time free transfer rule being passed at the same time created a lot of transfer portal opportunities. Within a couple of years, I think the Portal will be deeper than historical transfer pools, but nothing like last year or this year when coaches could put together an entire roster of experienced transfers (see Providence, Marquette, and to a lesser extent, Creighton). Going forward, I think you will see a bunch of freshmen and some sophomores hitting the portal, but there will not be that many more upperclassmen then there was in the pre-Portal days. There will be a few experienced mid-major players looking to upgrade, but without the movement in front of them at the P5 programs, I don't think as many experienced mid-major players will want to jump to sit on the bench.

That means that any coach that missed last year or this year in the Portal missed a one-time opportunity to dramatically improve their team.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Stop putting words in my mouth, seriously. Do it again and I'm putting you back on ignore.

What I'm saying is with guys like Floyd and Diggins we don't know what they would have been if they stayed at UConn and developed. Maybe they would have sucked, maybe Hurley would have developed them, maybe they'll be good elsewhere. All I'm saying is that saying guys like Corey Floyd Jr are failures simply because they transferred before playing a single second of college basketball is an outdated mindset.

You keep referencing me being a newer fan like it makes you some kind of hero that you've rooted for them longer than me. It doesn't. Tons of other fans have moved on into the present day and accepted transfers, I hope one day you can too. But really it doesn't matter, as you've so accurately pointed out numerous time transfers all suck and never lead to winning so we don't need to worry about losing any of these guys. They transferred and are lost causes now

Not it’s not. We spent resources recruiting them only for them not to do anything for us and have to hit the portal for replacements. So they were misses by Hurley. Failures. I already showed the numbers that healthy blue blood programs don’t deal with this many transfer and misses. If they do, it’s because they recruit well enough where they don’t beat out other recruits.

What I’m saying by being a newer fan you don’t understand just how well Calhoun’s formula worked. Which is most’s problem with Hurley. Calhoun was as honest, strict, and as much of an balloon knot as they come. But he believed in his players, found a way to make them useful to give them minutes, and developed the living hell out of them. And we never had to conform to the rest of college hoops. I’d personally like our culture to stay that way.

 

[imno1]

I have sometines received criticism for pointing out writing errors, and have responded that I almost only ever do so except in response to posts or posters who have overreached or otherwise projected their post's inerrancy. Here is a post in which the penultimate sentence can be read two ways, AND provides me with delight for how its (possibly) unintended meaning struck me. As such, this comment has no criticism intended. It is an appreciative recognition.

As written, it may be suggested that the only players who did not get better lost a lot of time to injury, OR lost a lot of time to Gaffney. The latter would mean that without Gaffney, Diggins and/or Floyd would have gotten more court time.

I could be wrong, but it may be that what was intended was that those who didn't improve were limited to uninjured Gaffney and those who were injured. But again, I like it either way.

Kromah will forever merit a special shoutout. There was a previously unfamiliar poster who was all-in on Kromah and predicted true greatness for him. In that singular instance, Kromah arrived as one of the most heavily-hyped players ever. There was really no way that anyone could ever have lived up to the hype generated by this poster.

And yet, Lasan Kromah was a vital part of the 2014 NC team, who exceeded the expectations of virtually everybody on this board.

I assert that no UConn player has ever simultaneously failed to live up to trumpeted expectations AND delightfully exceeded expectations.

Long live Lasan!

You have somewhat restated the initial query that wonder about talent development or talent identification. Bouknight has to be considered an example of at least one of those two.

The question you were asked to answer referred to "coaches." "Nova" is a single example, not the plural of "novum."


That's it?
Thanks for sharing.

You lost me at writing errors )

 

[navery12]

I mean he can be a success for his next school for sure, but I don’t see how he can be a success for us.

Not a success but I don't see how it's a failure. The context of this discussion is the ability to identify talent, all I'm saying is if Floyd is good somewhere else that's not a failure to identify talent even if he failed to retain the player

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Did I actually read a post criticizing Hurley for giving up on Sid Wilson? We’ve crossed over into full blown self-parody. Some of you might need a few months off from the internet.

 

[ctchamps]

I have sometines received criticism for pointing out writing errors, and have responded that I almost only ever do so except in response to posts or posters who have overreached or otherwise projected their post's inerrancy. Here is a post in which the penultimate sentence can be read two ways, AND provides me with delight for how its (possibly) unintended meaning struck me. As such, this comment has no criticism intended. It is an appreciative recognition.

As written, it may be suggested that the only players who did not get better lost a lot of time to injury, OR lost a lot of time to Gaffney. The latter would mean that without Gaffney, Diggins and/or Floyd would have gotten more court time.

I could be wrong, but it may be that what was intended was that those who didn't improve were limited to uninjured Gaffney and those who were injured. But again, I like it either way.

Kromah will forever merit a special shoutout. There was a previously unfamiliar poster who was all-in on Kromah and predicted true greatness for him. In that singular instance, Kromah arrived as one of the most heavily-hyped players ever. There was really no way that anyone could ever have lived up to the hype generated by this poster.

And yet, Lasan Kromah was a vital part of the 2014 NC team, who exceeded the expectations of virtually everybody on this board.

I assert that no UConn player has ever simultaneously failed to live up to trumpeted expectations AND delightfully exceeded expectations.

Long live Lasan!

You have somewhat restated the initial query that wonder about talent development or talent identification. Bouknight has to be considered an example of at least one of those two.

The question you were asked to answer referred to "coaches." "Nova" is a single example, not the plural of "novum."


That's it?
Thanks for sharing.

If we locked you and spliffy in a room it would be similar to bringing matter and antimatter together.

He eats shoots and leaves.
He eats shoots, and leaves.
He eats, shoots, and leaves.

Never underestimate the value of commas.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Did I actually read a post criticizing Hurley for giving up on Sid Wilson? We’ve crossed over into full blown self-parody. Some of you might need a few months off from the internet.

This off season has been one for the ages thus far. I've been posting on iterations of the Boneyard since ~07/08 and I'm not sure I've seen worse takes since the last of the KO holdouts during his tenure here.

 

[navery12]

Not it’s not. We spent resources recruiting them only for them not to do anything for us and have to hit the portal for replacements. So they were misses by Hurley. Failures. I already showed the numbers that healthy blue blood programs don’t deal with this many transfer and misses. If they do, it’s because they recruit well enough where they don’t beat out other recruits.

What I’m saying by being a newer fan you don’t understand just how well Calhoun’s formula worked. Which is most’s problem with Hurley. Calhoun was as honest, strict, and as much of an balloon knot as they come. But he believed in his players, found a way to make them useful to give them minutes, and developed the living hell out of them. And we never had to conform to the rest of college hoops. I’d personally like our culture to stay that way.

You already tried to show the numbers to support your point about transfers and were immediately called out for being wrong. Calhoun's formula would not work in today's game. You can hope all you want for the same formula but it's time to move on. Adapt or die, Hurley has adapted. You've shown you won't which is why you're going to continue to be a miserable person on this board for the next decade while we win with transfers

 

[UCSouth]

Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under DH. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from DH. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

You say "we" like you bring something to the program. All I see is a whiny b1#ch on a message board. Get over yourself already.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Did I actually read a post criticizing Hurley for giving up on Sid Wilson? We’ve crossed over into full blown self-parody. Some of you might need a few months off from the internet.

You are welcome to disagree about whether Sid Wilson should be included as Hurley's responsiblity, but it is a bit of an overreaction to act like a few words in one post broke the Internet. There have been quite a few over-the-top ad hominem attacks on other posters in this thread in defense of Hurley.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

If we locked you and spliffy in a room it would be similar to bringing matter and antimatter together.

He eats shoots and leaves.
He eats shoots, and leaves.
He eats, shoots, and leaves.

Never underestimate the value of commas.

In households across America, families are gathering (or have gathered) for celebratory meals, and children have said, "Let's eat, Grandma."

Without the comma, that's a very different exhortation.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

You already tried to show the numbers to support your point about transfers and were immediately called out for being wrong. Calhoun's formula would not work in today's game. You can hope all you want for the same formula but it's time to move on. Adapt or die, Hurley has adapted. You've shown you won't which is why you're going to continue to be a miserable person on this board for the next decade while we win with transfers

Yeah 1 out of the 8 teams I pointed out. Let me know when Hurley makes it out the first round. I’ll keep believe in the formula that has us tied with 6th all time.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You already tried to show the numbers to support your point about transfers and were immediately called out for being wrong. Calhoun's formula would not work in today's game. You can hope all you want for the same formula but it's time to move on. Adapt or die, Hurley has adapted. You've shown you won't which is why you're going to continue to be a miserable person on this board for the next decade while we win with transfers

Calhoun wouldn't have been caught with his pants down last year when it came to transfers, so there is that.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

If we locked you and spliffy in a room it would be similar to bringing matter and antimatter together.

He eats shoots and leaves.
He eats shoots, and leaves.
He eats, shoots, and leaves.

Never underestimate the value of commas.

Awesome book.

Where else does a story lead with a panda shooting up a restaurant.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

You already tried to show the numbers to support your point about transfers and were immediately called out for being wrong. Calhoun's formula would not work in today's game. You can hope all you want for the same formula but it's time to move on. Adapt or die, Hurley has adapted. You've shown you won't which is why you're going to continue to be a miserable person on this board for the next decade while we win with transfers

also if we win, the last thing I will be is miserable. I’m pissed off at the year we had though so yeah it’ll be a long off-season from me. I’m not rooting against Hurley. I want him and us to do well. I just don’t agree with how he’s handled his roster so far and it’s frustrating because it’s a damn good roster.

 

[navery12]

Calhoun wouldn't have been caught with his pants down last year when it came to transfers, so there is that.

Of course not, he would have brought in multiple transfer guards and we would have been a Final Four team. That's exactly my point, he would have adapted much faster than Hurley

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Of course not, he would have brought in multiple transfer guards and we would have been a Final Four team. That's exactly my point, he would have adapted much faster than Hurley

Yeah you clearly didn’t watch the Calhoun era.

I’ll tell you a story bud.

In 2006-2007 we went 17-14. Played nothing but a bunch of freshman and sophomores and it was a tough year to watch. Missed the tournament. Could’ve brought in transfers then to win games immediately if we wanted to.

That same team went on to play in the Final Four 2 years later without a key player that could’ve won us a championship. Everything doesn’t always have to be win now. Development matters.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

We've had the "best transfer" discussion a few times. Prior to Cole and Martin, my unofficial score keeping has Selvie and Q Hardnett tied for best transfer ever. But Martin and Cole top those guys in my opinion.

You forgot ,Purvis Kromah , Miller , and Sterling Gibbs . Kromah was key to NC
Purvis Miller and Gibbs to an AAC championship and the NCAA 2nd round. Except for the seed/ draw that was a sweet 16 team. Kansas the 1 and Nova (NC ) were also in our bracket.
I believe Gibbs and Purvis kept us in the game in our lose to Kansas in the round of 32. Gibbs was in the 20’s and Purvis close
Not a knock on Cole and Martin but reality is they won nothing.
Terry Larrier except for injury was probably the most talented transfer ever.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

You lost me at writing errors )

My post was a grab bag.

At this point there are diminishing returns on substantive contributions. Where people have claimed "failure," they've largely used that broader term for a limited dimension in which DH has 'failed.'

Examples:

He has failed to meet the poster's expectations or cherished desires.

He has failed to adhere to models from the past, or to adapt quickly enough to changes.

He has failed to perform as well as some of the most elite programs, or UConn's most successful coach ever.

He has failed to retain 'enough' players, or develop them 'enough,' or choose them 'well enough.'

Lots of people want to weigh in and agree and disagree, without or without data.

I just wanted to score a Dislike from @CheshireCat and see a third-person self-reference from a grin without a cat.

 

[navery12]

Yeah you clearly didn’t watch the Calhoun era.

I’ll tell you a story bud.

In 2006-2007 we went 17-14. Played nothing but a bunch of freshman and sophomores and it was a tough year to watch. Missed the tournament. Could’ve brought in transfers then to win games immediately if we wanted to.

That same team went on to play in the Final Four 2 years later without a key player that could’ve won us a championship. Everything doesn’t always have to be win now. Development matters.

Yeah I remember why I had you on ignore now, it's like arguing with a set of moving goalposts. I'll fix that now

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Ridiculous.

What is ridiculous. Why are you all so offended by facts? He got ejected in the first half. To credit that win to Hurley just wouldn’t be true.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

You guys touting CV development are forgetting . That until his senior tear he was forced to play the three on undermanned teams his Freshman,Sophomore, and Junior year .
As a lightly regarded freshman he was the only 2-3 sub . the 3rd leading scorer , 9-3.5 1.5 . 70% from the FT line Not bad for 150 ranked guy , Those aren’t shabby numbers for a freshman.
He also shot 36% from the three but he was playing with a legitimate PG who could make you better.
His senior year with Boat plus a more talented cast he was able to play the 2.
His progression was his handle improvement and development of getting off his own shot .
Confidence was never sn issue other than Khalid he might of been the most confident player I can remember.