Not Developing or Not Identifying Talent?

[Hungryhusky99]

It's not 4/14, for a few reasons. First, there were 13 players. Second, even if I'm very generous with the list it's 5/13 that haven't developed

Success - Bouknight, Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins


TBD - Springs, Diggins, Floyd, Johnson

I also have no idea why Sid Wilson who is a KO recruit is on the list and guys like Whaley and Polley who played 4 years for Hurley are not. Just seems like a cherry picked list.

Bouknight became an NBA lottery pick, but yeah other than that didn't get better. Sanogo's defense improved a ton from year 1 to year 2, and he just was BE 1st team all conference. Jackson went from a guy who couldn't score year 1 to shooting 36% from 3 (on low volume) while averaging 7/7/3 and playing elite perimeter defense

Springs, Diggins, and Floyd are all failures. Anyone who you bring on campus and they simply never play can’t be “tbd”. I have high hopes for Hawkins this year, but he still has a lot to prove before he can be a success.

 

[olehead]

You are making the assumption that a good coach can recruit all four star players to a 13 man roster and have the five who aren’t getting real playing time satisfied in staying under the new transfer rules. What I’m asking is whether anyone has evidence that other coaches are doing this, or whether people are just making up things to whine about it.

(I won’t even say where the smart money is in your case.)

See Nova.

 

[navery12]

Springs, Diggins, and Floyd are all failures. Anyone who you bring on campus and they simply never play can’t be “tbd”. I have high hopes for Hawkins this year, but he still has a lot to prove before he can be a success.

Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view

 

[Hungryhusky99]

Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view

It is not narrow minded it is reality. Clearly those guys weren’t good enough to get the minutes they wanted so that is either misevaluation or miscommunication. Dan himself said he is going to have to be more honest with recruits so even he is acknowledging some failure there.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The reason I listed the injury for Akok is it's an Achilles injury which is a really tough injury to come back from, especially for a guy who's game is all about his athleticism

I think Bouk significantly improved his game, he was somewhere around the 50th recruit in his class coming out of HS which doesn't make him a lock to become a lottery pick.

But I'm also not sure it really matters, the question was is Hurley not identifying or not developing talent. So whether he developed Bouknight or saw a HS recruit ranked in the 60s that was so good he could make the NBA in spite of Hurley's awful development, that's a success based on the premise

Bouk was an NBA talent from day 1. I think his first game he was making clutch shots and scoring seamlessly. The only person holding him back was Hurley not playing him enough until forced too. He’s also the rare exception compared to everyone else. His best recruit didn’t get 25+ minutes a game until injuries. A very clear NBA talent. But we’re suppose to believe he knows who to play or not from practice?

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Yeah I don't agree at all, just because a guy transferred doesn't make them a failure. That's a really narrow minded view

They were a failure for our program. If they go somewhere else and blossoms that’s even a bigger indictment on Hurley.

 

[olehead]

Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under DH. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from DH. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under DH. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from DH. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

What are you doing wasting your time on the Boneyard? Get your resume over the AD Dave asap.

 

[EBonz30]

Sid Wilson - transfer inherited player, shouldnt be on this list.
Brendan Adams - transfer was a solid gap filler, transferred to more minutes once the talent level increased
Bouknight - nba lottery pick
Akok - transfer injury derailed his college career
Gaff - transfer something went wrong here
Sanogo - current starter likely preseason all american next year
Jackson - current starter captain of the team next year
Springs - minimal minutes likely on track with his development plan
Javonte Brown - transfer realistically a guy that probably wasn't ready to contribute until year 3/4
Corey Floyd - transfer wish we couldve kept him but tbd
Diggins - transfer wish we couldve kept him but tbd
Samson Johnson - minimal minutes likely on track with his development plan
Jordan Hawkins - solid player. Likely starter as sophomore as advertised thus far

Wish we would’ve kept Diggins? We will see what the future holds, but the kid legitimately could not get the ball pass half court- people can keep complaining Hurley didn’t give him enough PT, but when you are that bad what does the current players & future recruits think when a player is getting minutes who doesn’t deserve them. Come 2025- looking back I don’t believe he will be a player “we wish we could’ve kept.”

 

[navery12]

They were a failure for our program. If they go somewhere else and blossoms that’s even a bigger indictment on Hurley.

No it's not. Because most people live in the 21st century and realize transfers are a part of basketball. I hope one day you get there too

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

No it's not. Because most people live in the 21st century and realize transfers are a part of basketball. I hope one day you get there too

What world do you live in where a guy can recruit someone, not play them, have them go somewhere else and play well, and it’s not on the coach for figuring out how they should be used?

If you followed us before 2014, I feel like you would understand more about how UConn culture really is and how big we are on bringing in players and developing them. This isn’t a program that usually misses on players, especially if they show any bit of promise.

Phil Nolan and Charles Okwandu were made useful for Christ’s sake but we have people making excuses for why Hurley couldn’t find a way to play Akok.

Terrence Samuels and Craig Austrie were very useful not highly recruited guards freshman year. I’m not sure if you around for that, but those kind of situations make me question Hurley for how he handled our very talented roster this year. The top talent was not THAT good to lean on like he did this year.

 

[cohenzone]

Whole Lotta DH excuses to choose from on this list. Dude needs to lock-in or find someone who can get it done. DH appears in over his head quite a bit.

Jay Wright must quit. He lost to the guy this year. Honestly, some of the takes on Hurley are over the top. The team was a consistent jump shooter away from 3-4 more wins. Jackson was the recruit everyone drooled over and his lack of scoring playing a scorers position hurt. UConn was out of exactly one game all year. Some kids transfer at the littlest hint of having to work hard to get the floor time they feel entitled to. Or they think Hurley is recruiting better than some here think because they think they might have to contend for time with newcomers.

 

[Palatine]

I've been looking at DH's record with incoming freshman. I think I have covered everyone and it's not the best look. In four years we've developed 4 players that I'd consider starting caliber players (bouk, Jackson, sanogo and Hawkins)

Sid Wilson - transfer
Brendan Adams - transfer
Bouknight - nba
Akok - transfer
Gaff - transfer
Sanogo - current starter
Jackson - current starter
Springs - minimal minutes
Javonte Brown - transfer
Corey Floyd - transfer
Diggins - transfer
Samson Johnson - minimal minutes
Jordan Hawkins - solid player. Likely starter as sophomore

The reasons why guys on the above list didn't work out are all over the map. We've also entered the transfer portal era. Which changes everything and hit us hard this year.

I'm not 100% sure what to make of this. We've clearly improved. NCAA two years in a row is improvement. But if this was the pre-portal era I'd think DH is in significant trouble. Four players in four years that actually see legit playing time..... combined with a massive number of transfers. DH definitely needs to do better and I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm not sure if he's struggling to develop players or struggling to identify talent.

One thing we do have going for us. Of the 4 players that I identified earlier, 3 of them are still on the team and will be starting next year.

It's hard to make any assessment without putting this post in context. How do our transfer compare to other teams our league or nationwide? Is this a high number or low number? Without knowing the answer to that question the discussion is pointless.

 

[businesslawyer]

It is not narrow minded it is reality. Clearly those guys weren’t good enough to get the minutes they wanted so that is either misevaluation or miscommunication. Dan himself said he is going to have to be more honest with recruits so even he is acknowledging some failure there.

Explain to me how all 13 guys on the roster can get the minutes they want. You sign up for a school and it’s a competition for minutes. There will be winners and losers. Under the old transfer rules, many losers stuck with it. Under the new transfer rules, not so much.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

Explain to me how all 13 guys on the roster can get the minutes they want. You sign up for a school and it’s a competition for minutes. There will be winners and losers. Under the old transfer rules, many losers stuck with it. Under the new transfer rules, not so much.

Obviously all 13 guys can’t play, but if guys are transferring out after 1 year or before they even play a game something went wrong somewhere.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

It's hard to make any assessment without putting this post in context. How do our transfer compare to other teams our league or nationwide? Is this a high number or low number? Without knowing the answer to that question the discussion is pointless.

The research has been done. It’s abnormal compared to most top programs.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Explain to me how all 13 guys on the roster can get the minutes they want. You sign up for a school and it’s a competition for minutes. There will be winners and losers. Under the old transfer rules, many losers stuck with it. Under the new transfer rules, not so much.

This isn’t true.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Jay Wright must quit. He lost to the guy this year. Honestly, some of the takes on Hurley are over the top. The team was a consistent jump shooter away from 3-4 more wins. Jackson was the recruit everyone drooled over and his lack of scoring playing a scorers position hurt. UConn was out of exactly one game all year. Some kids transfer at the littlest hint of having to work hard to get the floor time they feel entitled to. Or they think Hurley is recruiting better than some here think because they think they might have to contend for time with newcomers.

Wright didn’t lose to Hurley.

 

[navery12]

It is not narrow minded it is reality. Clearly those guys weren’t good enough to get the minutes they wanted so that is either misevaluation or miscommunication. Dan himself said he is going to have to be more honest with recruits so even he is acknowledging some failure there.

This is a ridiculous mindset, this isn't 1999 where only bad players transfer anymore

 

[EASTFLA]

I think this is a bit harsh. Calhoun lost a lot of players and swung and missed often as well by their graduation class:

Lubin 2014 transferred
Trice. 2009 transferred
Haralson 2008 transferred
Eaves 2006 transferred
Kellogg 2004 transferred
Thompson 2003 transferred
Garrison 2005 transferred
Bradley 2010 transferred
Sam Cassell 2014 transferred
Phil Nolan 2012 never developed
Terrence Samuel 2013 transferred
Kenton Facey 2013 modestly productive
Jonathon Mandelove 2006 transferred
Stephen Enoch 2015 transferred
Darius Smith 2009 transferred
Marcus Johnson 2005 transferred
Coombes McDaniel 2009 transferred
Curtis Kelly 2006 transferred
After Major 2006 transferred
Alex Oriachi 2006 transferred

I’m sure this isn’t 100% accurate but you get the point. This was all before the portal!

Calhoun had more success bringing in players ranked 5-25 and most, not all did big things. Hurley has yet to get

 

[Hungryhusky99]

This is a ridiculous mindset, this isn't 1999 where only bad players transfer anymore.

What are you talking about? When did I ever say that? The staff has clearly made some bad evaluations the past few cycles, but it clearly makes you feel better to ignore those.

 

[Husky68]

Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under DH. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from DH. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

If this is a crazy take, know at least there are two of us that belong in the looney bin!

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I don't think player development is an issue. Look at how much better CV got under Hurley. Jackson got a lot better this year. Bouknight got so much better. Sanogo has come really far. Martin got better. Whaley got better.

The only guys that didn't get better are guys who lost a lot of time to injury and Gaffney. The rest are tbd

I have sometines received criticism for pointing out writing errors, and have responded that I almost only ever do so except in response to posts or posters who have overreached or otherwise projected their post's inerrancy. Here is a post in which the penultimate sentence can be read two ways, AND provides me with delight for how its (possibly) unintended meaning struck me. As such, this comment has no criticism intended. It is an appreciative recognition.

As written, it may be suggested that the only players who did not get better lost a lot of time to injury, OR lost a lot of time to Gaffney. The latter would mean that without Gaffney, Diggins and/or Floyd would have gotten more court time.

I could be wrong, but it may be that what was intended was that those who didn't improve were limited to uninjured Gaffney and those who were injured. But again, I like it either way.

Yes …..but crunch time kromah !

Kromah will forever merit a special shoutout. There was a previously unfamiliar poster who was all-in on Kromah and predicted true greatness for him. In that singular instance, Kromah arrived as one of the most heavily-hyped players ever. There was really no way that anyone could ever have lived up to the hype generated by this poster.

And yet, Lasan Kromah was a vital part of the 2014 NC team, who exceeded the expectations of virtually everybody on this board.

I assert that no UConn player has ever simultaneously failed to live up to trumpeted expectations AND delightfully exceeded expectations.

Long live Lasan!

Did Bouknight significantly improve his game or did he just get more playing time and usage along with everyone else on the list?

You have somewhat restated the initial query that wonder about talent development or talent identification. Bouknight has to be considered an example of at least one of those two.

See Nova.

The question you were asked to answer referred to "coaches." "Nova" is a single example, not the plural of "novum."

Why "make up" things to whine about when you want the program that you root for to succeed? Generally the "whine" is due to discontent with something.
My somethings are well noted on this board.

To Hurley's credit, I guess, many believe he discovered Whaley, after Akok went down. Few will recall that KO regularly played Whaley. I will agree that Whaley shined under DH. Bouk was league-bound no matter where he ended up and Hawkins was ready upon arrival.

He gave up on Sid, who had athleticism, size and length, to be of some benefit to the program.

Stevie Wonder would have eventually played Bouk.

He brought in Diggins, CFJr, Gaffney, J. Brown, and Akok all gone. Those are his guys and they all left.

Springs is in his 6th year I think of the developmental plan and has not played scratch and Samson, a "wall guy" got no run last year.

Clearly Hurley is not a top notch X and O guy and does he exude coolness on the sideline, quite the opposite, picture whiny, immature man slowly pissing off the refs at every ridiculous gesture and that damn "bitter beer barf" face. Helpful. Thank God for Kimani at the helm for the Nova home game or who knows what would have happened.

And as everyone on this board knows, and as I predicted last year, he's a year late engaging in the portal. A lack of talent, and more specifically the inability to replace Bouk's scoring threat through the portal was bound to bite us in axx, and it did. His holier than thou culture approach was full of shix and proved to be the case as last year we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to anyone remotely competitive. Most importantly, we flamed like mitches in the 1st round again.

So, excuse me if I don't want to hear anything from DH. Spare me the platitudes on his new formula for development and roster construction, or how he has awakened to the realities of portal world, or how he is somehow more virtuous or truthful to his players than other coaches. He's being painfully truthful to guys HE recruited, you owe them no less. Duh. He's slow to trends on and off the court, does not seem to have the facile mind to adjust on the fly ( see St. Johns at home two years ago).

He can't hide. He's at UConn, he's at a powerhouse and his failings are on a large stage. He can get it right, or we can and should go out and get a big time guy who will get it right and be willing to stand up and be held accountable to an admittedly difficult job serving as head coach to one of the most successful programs of all time. No more 45:07 t-shirts and slogans, no more salesmanship, shut-up, bring ballers in from the portal and by traditional means and get us beyond the second round.

That's it?
Thanks for sharing.

 

[cohenzone]

Wright didn’t lose to Hurley.

Ridiculous.

 

[navery12]

What world do you live in where a guy can recruit someone, not play them, have them go somewhere else and play well, and it’s not on the coach for figuring out how they should be used?

If you followed us before 2014, I feel like you would understand more about how UConn culture really is and how big we are on bringing in players and developing them. This isn’t a program that usually misses on players, especially if they show any bit of promise.

Phil Nolan and Charles Okwandu were made useful for Christ’s sake but we have people making excuses for why Hurley couldn’t find a way to play Akok.

Terrence Samuels and Craig Austrie were very useful not highly recruited guards freshman year. I’m not sure if you around for that, but those kind of situations make me question Hurley for how he handled our very talented roster this year. The top talent was not THAT good to lean on like he did this year.

Stop putting words in my mouth, seriously. Do it again and I'm putting you back on ignore.

What I'm saying is with guys like Floyd and Diggins we don't know what they would have been if they stayed at UConn and developed. Maybe they would have sucked, maybe Hurley would have developed them, maybe they'll be good elsewhere. All I'm saying is that saying guys like Corey Floyd Jr are failures simply because they transferred before playing a single second of college basketball is an outdated mindset.

You keep referencing me being a newer fan like it makes you some kind of hero that you've rooted for them longer than me. It doesn't. Tons of other fans have moved on into the present day and accepted transfers, I hope one day you can too. But really it doesn't matter, as you've so accurately pointed out numerous time transfers all suck and never lead to winning so we don't need to worry about losing any of these guys. They transferred and are lost causes now