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If the Big 12 is playing this strategically, actually it's UConn that appears to be the only "logical" lock, with UC and BYU fighting for #12 (i.e., I can see UConn/UC or UConn/BYU but not a UC/BYU or any other combo of G5 teams to get to 12). We win on academics, NCs, and media market. We win as a flagship and as a possible near term candidate for the ACC or B1G, even without the ACC or Big 12 imploding (e.g., we are the logical 16th team if ND joins full time and if the Big 12 assumes it will stay together). UConn also provides better linkages with possible northeast/mid atlantic ACC teams that may become available down the road. The B1G or SEC isn't going to ever pick up UC so the Big 12 is their only option (other than an ACC implosion). BYU could be picked up by the PAC 12, has national brand appeal, a TV network than could be folded into a Big12 network and provides more live TV coverage options (given their time zone). If the Big 12 only expands to 12, logic points to it being UConn and BYU. That said, this is not a logical process and we always have Rule #1.
 
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Dooley

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JMO but The ACC taking Louisville over UCONN was the right move for the conference at the time it happened. It doesn't mean that it was the right long term move, just that it diffused a volatile situation with Clemson and FSU. Things likely would have spiraled out of control with the inclusion of what they viewed as a "basketball school". It would have reinforced the perception of Tobacco Road being the shot callers in The ACC over the southern football schools.

The ACC is a conference of constant contradiction.

"We're a basketball conference." - "We don't want any more basketball schools."
"We want a conference network." - "Let's invite schools who are in 2nd inside their own small DMAs."
"We are proud of our academic reputation." - "Relax Rick, there are enough hookers and blow to go around for everyone."
"We are still mad at the lawsuit." - "Hey Syracuse and Pitt, wanna join?"
"We do what ESPN tells us." - "Buuuuuut we really waaaaant a netwooooork! (pouty face)"

There is no long-term plan in the ACC. It's almost as if they post daily polls to their fans to ask them what should they do next. The lack of focus is exactly what is going to see them ultimately fall apart if the B12 beats them to a conference network.
 
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The ACC is a conference of constant contradiction.

"We're a basketball conference." - "We don't want any more basketball schools."
"We want a conference network." - "Let's invite schools who are in 2nd inside their own small DMAs."
"We are proud of our academic reputation." - "Relax Rick, there are enough hookers and blow to go around for everyone."
"We are still mad at the lawsuit." - "Hey Syracuse and Pitt, wanna join?"
"We do what ESPN tells us." - "Buuuuuut we really waaaaant a netwooooork! (pouty face)"

There is no long-term plan in the ACC. It's almost as if they post daily polls to their fans to ask them what should they do next. The lack of focus is exactly what is going to see them ultimately fall apart if the B12 beats them to a conference network.
Sometimes I wonder if UVA, UNC, NC St, Wake, Duke and Georgia Tech would like nothing more than to be together in their own conference.
 

pj

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JMO but The ACC taking Louisville over UCONN was the right move for the conference at the time it happened. It doesn't mean that it was the right long term move, just that it diffused a volatile situation with Clemson and FSU. Things likely would have spiraled out of control with the inclusion of what they viewed as a "basketball school". It would have reinforced the perception of Tobacco Road being the shot callers in The ACC over the southern football schools.

FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2012: "You're not the boss of us. Give us a southern football school or else."
FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2016: "You duck*ed up. You listened to us. Next time you know we're making a mistake, please do what's best for us, not what we ask for."
 
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The ACC is a conference of constant contradiction.

"We're a basketball conference." - "We don't want any more basketball schools."
"We want a conference network." - "Let's invite schools who are in 2nd inside their own small DMAs."
"We are proud of our academic reputation." - "Relax Rick, there are enough hookers and blow to go around for everyone."
"We are still mad at the lawsuit." - "Hey Syracuse and Pitt, wanna join?"
"We do what ESPN tells us." - "Buuuuuut we really waaaaant a netwooooork! (pouty face)"

There is no long-term plan in the ACC. It's almost as if they post daily polls to their fans to ask them what should they do next. The lack of focus is exactly what is going to see them ultimately fall apart if the B12 beats them to a conference network.


Wouldn't that be something!
 
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The ACC is a conference of constant contradiction.

"We're a basketball conference." - "We don't want any more basketball schools."
"We want a conference network." - "Let's invite schools who are in 2nd inside their own small DMAs."
"We are proud of our academic reputation." - "Relax Rick, there are enough hookers and blow to go around for everyone."
"We are still mad at the lawsuit." - "Hey Syracuse and Pitt, wanna join?"
"We do what ESPN tells us." - "Buuuuuut we really waaaaant a netwooooork! (pouty face)"

There is no long-term plan in the ACC. It's almost as if they post daily polls to their fans to ask them what should they do next. The lack of focus is exactly what is going to see them ultimately fall apart if the B12 beats them to a conference network.

You get no argument from me. I think the ACC is run like a ship of fools when you compare it to the systematic way The B1G goes about its business. That said on this particular occasion Clemson and FSU drew a line in the sand and basically said we are getting our way or we're taking our ball and going home. Welcome to The ACC Louisville.
 
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JMO but The ACC taking Louisville over UCONN was the right move for the conference at the time it happened. It doesn't mean that it was the right long term move, just that it diffused a volatile situation with Clemson and FSU. Things likely would have spiraled out of control with the inclusion of what they viewed as a "basketball school". It would have reinforced the perception of Tobacco Road being the shot callers in The ACC over the southern football schools.
Adding Louisville was an impulsive reaction. It was the wrong decision then and is the wrong decision now. The only chance the acc had for long term health was to lock in the nyc market. Louisville didnt bring that. Fast forward to today and the acc is on the verge of getting pushed out almost entirely. It's only a matter of time before the few schools that matter grow impatient and look elsewhere.
 
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FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2012: "You're not the boss of us. Give us a southern football school or else."
FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2016: "You duck*ed up. You listened to us. Next time you know we're making a mistake, please do what's best for us, not what we ask for."

How ironic it would if we are members of the B12 and FSU and Clemson want to join us.
 

FfldCntyFan

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The biggest irony here is that the ACC's weakness is in their determioned efforts to protect small privates & redundancies (look at Wake) along with their basketball heritage and their steps (adding ND, expanding to increase the scope of their football product) to do so, even if those steps appear counterintuitive.

At some point someone in the ACC needs to look at the old Big East and use the adage "those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it".
 
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The biggest irony here is that the ACC's weakness is in their determioned efforts to protect small privates & redundancies (look at Wake) along with their basketball heritage and their steps (adding ND, expanding to increase the scope of their football product) to do so, even if those steps appear counterintuitive.

At some point someone in the ACC needs to look at the old Big East and use the adage "those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it".
IMHO the ACC's biggest mistake was allowing Stafford to peddle their rights off to Raycom. This prevents them from having a network...and there for let their expansion moves be made off of personal grudges and gridiron performances. If the ACC had a network they would be making serious cash..and RU/UConn would be members of the conference.
 

FfldCntyFan

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IMHO the ACC's biggest mistake was allowing Stafford to peddle their rights off to Raycom. This prevents them from having a network...and there for let their expansion moves be made off of personal grudges and gridiron performances. If the ACC had a network they would be making serious cash..and RU/UConn would be members of the conference.
That is a huge factor in the ACC's current situation and that was entirely playing in favor of what granted immediate advantage to the tobacco road basketball programs as opposed to the long term advantages of the conference as a whole.
 
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JMO but The ACC taking Louisville over UCONN was the right move for the conference at the time it happened. It doesn't mean that it was the right long term move, just that it diffused a volatile situation with Clemson and FSU. Things likely would have spiraled out of control with the inclusion of what they viewed as a "basketball school". It would have reinforced the perception of Tobacco Road being the shot callers in The ACC over the southern football schools.
Ldandy,
Louisville is a "basketball school". They just beat Duke a few hours ago, and it wasn't an upset. Football is what was needed at the time, and Louisville provided it enough to please the football schools. But there was no drop off in basketball or baseball either, which are the two other most important sports in the ACC. It was a choice with no objection from any corner of the league.

Now it's time to get UConn into a P5 league. Louisville is over and done with. The Big XII looks like it may have some open spots this summer. UConn should work toward getting one.
 
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The biggest irony here is that the ACC's weakness is in their determioned efforts to protect small privates & redundancies (look at Wake) along with their basketball heritage and their steps (adding ND, expanding to increase the scope of their football product) to do so, even if those steps appear counterintuitive.

At some point someone in the ACC needs to look at the old Big East and use the adage "those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it".

You guys keep missing it.

The ACC was jealous of the Big East. They wanted to be as much Big East as they possibly could. So they added a Catholic school. Then they added schools outside the coastal footprint. And they even moved their conference tourney to MSG. They also gave Notre Dame a weird half-existence. It wasn't enough. So at last they added a former Metro school from a small burg in Kentucky!
 
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FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2012: "You're not the boss of us. Give us a southern football school or else."
FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2016: "You duck*ed up. You listened to us. Next time you know we're making a mistake, please do what's best for us, not what we ask for."
My favorite line from "Animal House".
It's actually "you duck*ed up you trusted us"
But close enough.
 
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You know what this really sounds like? I have heard it before in my way, way back.

I remember choosing teams at sandlot baseball. And I saw this again as a young guy at FSU in the late 60's-early 70's when FSU was rebuffed for 15 years by the SEC and Florida.


Wah! You didn't pick me.

Wah! I am so better than Johnny!

You are stupid and are going to die stupid..wah!

You'll see what a mistake you made. You watch. You'll be sorry.

Johnny sucks and nobody likes him anyway.


Now, hopefully, it's getting to be time to just let the hurt go, and go play in the Big 12...

And we all will be on here with a cheer. Even us non UConn guys. Bad endings are always salved by a new beginning.

And, the basketball rivalries ought to be great.

Hoping for news this summer.
 
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JMO but The ACC taking Louisville over UCONN was the right move for the conference at the time it happened. It doesn't mean that it was the right long term move, just that it diffused a volatile situation with Clemson and FSU. Things likely would have spiraled out of control with the inclusion of what they viewed as a "basketball school". It would have reinforced the perception of Tobacco Road being the shot callers in The ACC over the southern football schools.
I think the key point is that there was a "volatile situation." A conference like that will always be having some type of situation which will ultimately destroy it. ND is the kicker.
 
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You know what this really sounds like? I have heard it before in my way, way back.

I remember choosing teams at sandlot baseball. And I saw this again as a young guy at FSU in the late 60's-early 70's when FSU was rebuffed for 15 years by the SEC and Florida.


Wah! You didn't pick me.

Wah! I am so better than Johnny!

You are stupid and are going to die stupid..wah!

You'll see what a mistake you made. You watch. You'll be sorry.

Johnny sucks and nobody likes him anyway.


Now, hopefully, it's getting to be time to just let the hurt go, and go play in the Big 12...

And we all will be on here with a cheer. Even us non UConn guys. Bad endings are always salved by a new beginning.

And, the basketball rivalries ought to be great.

Hoping for news this summer.
I find it hard to believe that you had access to same sort of data in the 60s. Most of our hatred towards the ACC is based on fact, not exclusion. The ACC was always the old boys network and quite frankly, had no idea how to handle being surpassed by the Big East. In fact, they still don't. Hearing Coach K proclaim things like this year's conference is the deepest ever in college basketball is not just comical, its pathetic. The ACC is the perfect cocktail for implosion: a mindset stuck in the past with inept leadership. Lucky for you, FSU will always be fine. The same cannot be said about the conference you find yourself in.
 
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You know what this really sounds like? I have heard it before in my way, way back.

I remember choosing teams at sandlot baseball. And I saw this again as a young guy at FSU in the late 60's-early 70's when FSU was rebuffed for 15 years by the SEC and Florida.


Wah! You didn't pick me.

Wah! I am so better than Johnny!

You are stupid and are going to die stupid..wah!

You'll see what a mistake you made. You watch. You'll be sorry.

Johnny sucks and nobody likes him anyway.


Now, hopefully, it's getting to be time to just let the hurt go, and go play in the Big 12...

And we all will be on here with a cheer. Even us non UConn guys. Bad endings are always salved by a new beginning.

And, the basketball rivalries ought to be great.

Hoping for news this summer.



off...
 
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You know what this really sounds like? I have heard it before in my way, way back.

I remember choosing teams at sandlot baseball. And I saw this again as a young guy at FSU in the late 60's-early 70's when FSU was rebuffed for 15 years by the SEC and Florida.


Wah! You didn't pick me.

Wah! I am so better than Johnny!

You are stupid and are going to die stupid..wah!

You'll see what a mistake you made. You watch. You'll be sorry.

Johnny sucks and nobody likes him anyway.


Now, hopefully, it's getting to be time to just let the hurt go, and go play in the Big 12...

And we all will be on here with a cheer. Even us non UConn guys. Bad endings are always salved by a new beginning.

And, the basketball rivalries ought to be great.

Hoping for news this summer.

Billybud, I am amused you think all the comments on the BY about the ACC are purely spite driven. While there is certainly some hard feelings by UConn fans toward the ACC that does not mean the analysis of the ACC's future is invalid.

Bottom line: the ACC did not recognize the financial future of P5 was tied to networks and thus did not expand appropriately. Networks changed the value of teams. For a network, flagship state schools are the key components. You are not marketing to a national audience like on ESPN but instead toward a targeted regional demographic who will pay to see their team. A network requires a school to sell the entire state and small private schools cannot produce the subscriber numbers like big flagships schools. For example, I have family in WV and when I visit there every single person I see is wearing WVU apparel. Most of those people never attended WVU or probably can even read but they cheer for their state school and will pay to see them. To WV residents WVU is WV and every kid in the state growing up cheering for the Mountaineers.

One can argue Syracuse, Pittsburgh, BC, and Louisville are athletically superior to West Virginia, Rutgers, Maryland and UConn (actually, probably not but lets assume so arguendo) but there is no question which choice is better for a network. The ACC squandered all the above programs and thus doomed itself to non-network status. That assessment is not said in spite, it is based in reality.

The ACC has sold its future to direct sales to media providers. If the ACC is selling its games to ESPN for nationwide distribution then perhaps Louisville-FSU sells better than FSU-UConn in football. But ESPN will never pay the revenue a network can. If you doubt this statement look at the last earning statement from the BIG/SEC. The network conferences are separating themselves...the B12 understands this, I am not sure why the ACC has not reached this conclusion?

The ACC needs 2 things to happen:
1. The B12 not to acquire a network. B12 instability helps the ACC. If the Big12 gets a network and the ACC is the only conference left behind, stand by for defections.
2. The market to change. Maybe the unplugging phenomena will eventually make a network less profitable? Maybe direct internet sales will change how programs can make money? Point is the ACC does not have the teams to support a network and unless the current environment changes the money gap is only going to get larger. In the current environment the ACC's future is very clouded.

The B12 may be UConn's life line and we all want it. But regardless of what happens with the B12 the above evaluation of the ACC will not change. ...."and that's all she wrote..."
 

nelsonmuntz

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FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2012: "You're not the boss of us. Give us a southern football school or else."
FSU and Clemson to Tobacco Road, 2016: "You duck*ed up. You listened to us. Next time you know we're making a mistake, please do what's best for us, not what we ask for."

Agree. Adding Louisville has turned out to be a bad choice. If it was a good idea, the ACC would have a network by now.
 
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Don't know if this was addressed in another thread, so I'm adding it here. Being as WVU is one of the proponents of B-XII expansion, AND wants schools closer to Morgantown, I visited the Mountaineer Scout Board & scanned their Big XII Conference board (formerly their CR board). There is a thread simply entitled UCONN.
Incredible stubbornness & lack of enlightenment by some posters. One poster's thoughts as an example: Doesn't want UCONN under any circumstances. They've never been good in football (forget 2 Big East Co-Championships), lack of facilities which they can't afford to build (guess that he's never seen pictures of the Schenk), bring nothing to the table. Other posters tried to tell this clown that, in the future, CR is about population & cable boxes to build a conference network (citing Rutgers to the B-XII as an example) & that UCONN brings the entire area from NYC to Boston-high population density for subscribership. He wasn't having any of it & reduced the thread to name calling. WOW.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Don't know if this was addressed in another thread, so I'm adding it here. Being as WVU is one of the proponents of B-XII expansion, AND wants schools closer to Morgantown, I visited the Mountaineer Scout Board & scanned their Big XII Conference board (formerly their CR board). There is a thread simply entitled UCONN.
Incredible stubbornness & lack of enlightenment by some posters. One poster's thoughts as an example: Doesn't want UCONN under any circumstances. They've never been good in football (forget 2 Big East Co-Championships), lack of facilities which they can't afford to build (guess that he's never seen pictures of the Schenk), bring nothing to the table. Other posters tried to tell this clown that, in the future, CR is about population & cable boxes to build a conference network (citing Rutgers to the B-XII as an example) & that UCONN brings the entire area from NYC to Boston-high population density for subscribership. He wasn't having any of it & reduced the thread to name calling. WOW.

There was a small window in time where conferences added schools because they were good in football. And then they saw the Big 10 add Maryland and Rutgers, and the SEC add Missouri and Texas A&M and the Pac 12 add Colorado, and the Big 12 and ACC realized they had screwed up completely. TCU and WVU were not particularly valuable for a conference network, and ND basketball, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt were completely worthless from that perspective. Now both leagues are figuring out what to do next.
 

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