Non-Key Tweets

[CallMeBruce]

If I'm the Big 12 and am considering BYU, the thing that pops into my head is, if they're such a great addition, why hasn't the Pac 12 added them? They've been sitting there for the taking by the P12 for decades, and they've not added them. Why did they jump over them geographically for Colorado? Why did they pass them up when they took Utah, which would've continued their two-per-region rival modeling they have in WA, OR, SF, LA, and AZ? If I'm Bowlsby, I'd almost consider giving Scott a call and ask him why the hell he's left them on the table?

I think that the answer is that Oregon State and Washington State would be screwed if the PAC were starting over. Redundant adds aren't helpful in creating a network. From the PAC's perspective, it was BYU or Utah. State flagship, or private religious school? Flagship wins. And a lot of PAC folks think Utah was a questionable add. But BYU doesn't give you anything you didn't already get from Utah. Colorado gets the PAC network into Denver.

 

[NYUConn]

The Mormon Church has to support itself. By all reports that is not a problem. Every separate activity that the Mormon Church participates in -- such as broadcasting -- does not need to support itself if the Church is willing to make up the difference

That's my point. If the network loses BYU athletics and starts hemorrhaging money it's on the church to step in. Does the church value the network enough to divert funding from other causes? Maybe, even probably, but the point I am driving at here is that the Network needs to remain solvent one way or the other and losing BYU athletics creates a major gap that some other area of the LDS will need to step in and cover. Just because the network enjoys non-profit tax status doesn't mean that it can continue to function if it's losing money without something or someone else stepping in.

 

[Waquoit]

The Mormon Church has to support itself. By all reports that is not a problem. Every separate activity that the Mormon Church participates in -- such as broadcasting -- does not need to support itself if the Church is willing to make up the difference

Like Fox and the New York Post.

 

[Exit 4]

If I'm the Big 12 and am considering BYU, the thing that pops into my head is, if they're such a great addition, why hasn't the Pac 12 added them? They've been sitting there for the taking by the P12 for decades, and they've not added them. Why did they jump over them geographically for Colorado? Why did they pass them up when they took Utah, which would've continued their two-per-region rival modeling they have in WA, OR, SF, LA, and AZ? If I'm Bowlsby, I'd almost consider giving Scott a call and ask him why the hell he's left them on the table?

I don't really know the specifics, but it seems to me they passed over BYU for Utah because Utah is a better cultural fit (another non denominational school) that does not bring scheduling restrictions (sundays). In my opinion, I also don't think schools necessarily always want a winner to add to the mix. These P5 conferences already have established winners, they just want cable boxes (hello rutgers) and a school that is near par for the academic avg of the conference.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I don't really know the specifics, but it seems to me they passed over BYU for Utah because Utah is a better cultural fit (another non denominational school) that does not bring scheduling restrictions (sundays). In my opinion, I also don't think schools necessarily always want a winner to add to the mix. These P5 conferences already have established winners, they just want cable boxes (hello rutgers) and a school that is near par for the academic avg of the conference.

And BYU has a national following, brings in lots of potential cable boxes across the country, good academics, and competitively is good but not world-beaters. Which brings me back to my initial question, why were they left on the table in favor of a less-successful, lower-rated academic school that is a flagship, but one that outside of Colorado has very little following? I'm only posing it from the perspective of if you're the B12 doing due diligence, these are the things you have to consider. If those within the B12 see BYU as a strong addition - competitive football team, national brand name, good academics - the question must be asked why have they not been snatched up for so long? We know why UConn is on the table - the football team has the perception of being terrible. What's going on behind the scenes at BYU that has turned others off?

 

[Waquoit]

Which brings me back to my initial question, why were they left on the table in favor of a less-successful, lower-rated academic school that is a flagship, but one that outside of Colorado has very little following?

The bigger question is why does BYU want the Big 12 after Mizzou left? No side trips to the Garden of Eden.

 

[MASSconn]

Pipedream that the B1G is watching this and suddenly says let's close the NYC/Metro DC markets for good, and takes UCONN/UVA or VTECH.

 

[noeynox]

And BYU has a national following, brings in lots of potential cable boxes across the country, good academics, and competitively is good but not world-beaters. Which brings me back to my initial question, why were they left on the table in favor of a less-successful, lower-rated academic school that is a flagship, but one that outside of Colorado has very little following? I'm only posing it from the perspective of if you're the B12 doing due diligence, these are the things you have to consider. If those within the B12 see BYU as a strong addition - competitive football team, national brand name, good academics - the question must be asked why have they not been snatched up for so long? We know why UConn is on the table - the football team has the perception of being terrible. What's going on behind the scenes at BYU that has turned others off?

That is not why uconn is on the table. In 2012, when Ville was picked we were less than 3 years removed from a BCS bid. When Pitt and Cuse went less than 2 years removed. Uconn is,still here in large part because they were actively looking to keep the league together as others were looking to get out.

 

[noeynox]

The bigger question is why does BYU want the Big 12 after Mizzou left? No side trips to the Garden of Eden.

KU is close enough.

 

[amory]

And BYU has a national following, brings in lots of potential cable boxes across the country, good academics, and competitively is good but not world-beaters. Which brings me back to my initial question, why were they left on the table in favor of a less-successful, lower-rated academic school that is a flagship, but one that outside of Colorado has very little following? I'm only posing it from the perspective of if you're the B12 doing due diligence, these are the things you have to consider. If those within the B12 see BYU as a strong addition - competitive football team, national brand name, good academics - the question must be asked why have they not been snatched up for so long? We know why UConn is on the table - the football team has the perception of being terrible. What's going on behind the scenes at BYU that has turned others off?

Isn't it pretty well-known that BYU is a pain in the ass to deal with? Does the reason need to be more than that?

Like, good for BYU that they're a religious institution and they've found a way to be good at sports too. But usually when you join a conference that will benefit your institution, you have to make concessions. With BYU it's the other way around, the conference has to make concessions to suit them.

 

[CallMeBruce]

That is not why uconn is on the table. In 2012, when Ville was picked we were less than 3 years removed from a BCS bid. When Pitt and Cuse went less than 2 years removed. Uconn is,still here in large part because they were actively looking to keep the league together as others were looking to get out.

Actually, it was less than 2 for Louisville, and it was coming off the BCS bid when Cuse and Pitt got picked.

 

[IMind]

And BYU has a national following, brings in lots of potential cable boxes across the country, good academics, and competitively is good but not world-beaters. Which brings me back to my initial question, why were they left on the table in favor of a less-successful, lower-rated academic school that is a flagship, but one that outside of Colorado has very little following? I'm only posing it from the perspective of if you're the B12 doing due diligence, these are the things you have to consider. If those within the B12 see BYU as a strong addition - competitive football team, national brand name, good academics - the question must be asked why have they not been snatched up for so long? We know why UConn is on the table - the football team has the perception of being terrible. What's going on behind the scenes at BYU that has turned others off?

The not playing on Sundays thing is a big deal, culturally Utah and Texas aren't as close as everyone seems to believe... especially considering the strong evangelical presences in Texas politics... We've also heard from multiple sources that the B12 doesn't wan't to expand to the west. Not to mention it's in the wrong time zone. Plus BYU isn't as close as everyone seems to think and while it's not as far away as Connecticut is... it's still 1200 miles away from Austin, TX and 1100 miles from Norman, OK. We bemoan Rutger's population and proximity to NYC, but BYU may very well be bemoaning our time zone. If you're talking about going to the PAC-12? If there's a cultural difference between Baylor and BYU... think about the huge gulf between Berkeley and Provo.... Then there's BYU network issue... there's a lot working against BYU.

 

[King Jonathan]

The not playing on Sundays thing is a big deal, culturally Utah and Texas aren't as close as everyone seems to believe... especially considering the strong evangelical presences in Texas politics... We've also heard from multiple sources that the B12 doesn't wan't to expand to the west. Not to mention it's in the wrong time zone. Plus BYU isn't as close as everyone seems to think and while it's not as far away as Connecticut is... it's still 1200 miles away from Austin, TX and 1100 miles from Norman, OK. We bemoan Rutger's population and proximity to NYC, but BYU may very well be bemoaning our time zone. If you're talking about going to the PAC-12? If there's a cultural difference between Baylor and BYU... think about the huge gulf between Berkeley and Provo.... Then there's BYU network issue... there's a lot working against BYU.

Lets hope its too much to overcome

 

[HuskyHawk]

Good grief people. What makes anyone think that the BigXII wants mountain time zone content in a sparsely populated region...or rather that Fox Sports wants that. The overwhelming majority of people in the country live in the eastern and central time zones. Most of the rest of the people are Pac10 fans. It's pretty unlikely that BYU, which has the no Sunday rule, has it's own incompatible network and which is in the wrong time zone, is getting a Big XII invite. That's why they are independent for football...they have too much baggage even for the MWC.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Good grief people. What makes anyone think that the BigXII wants mountain time zone content in a sparsely populated region...or rather that Fox Sports wants that. The overwhelming majority of people in the country live in the eastern and central time zones. Most of the rest of the people are Pac10 fans. It's pretty unlikely that BYU, which has the no Sunday rule, has it's own incompatible network and which is in the wrong time zone, is getting a Big XII invite. That's why they are independent for football...they have too much baggage even for the MWC.

They left the MWC because the quality of competition dropped.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

That is not why uconn is on the table. In 2012, when Ville was picked we were less than 3 years removed from a BCS bid. When Pitt and Cuse went less than 2 years removed. Uconn is,still here in large part because they were actively looking to keep the league together as others were looking to get out.

This is not why we're on the table. It's because the perception of our football program, even after the BCS game (which, right or wrong, ended up hurting our public perception don't forget), is that it's young, not good, and our attendance is poor. Again, whether those things are true isn't relevant. The ACC thought they were, they took UL. It's not because we were trying to keep the Big East together, that's complete fiction.

 

[NYUConn]

They left the MWC because the quality of competition dropped.

No, they left the MWC because they were convinced they could build a brand for themselves as the Notre Dame of the west and make more money in the process. They were getting $2 million per year through the MWC TV deal, under their current agreement with ESPN they make 800K-1.2 million per game. No brainer.

 

[CallMeBruce]

No, they left the MWC because they were convinced they could build a brand for themselves as the Notre Dame of the west and make more money in the process. They were getting $2 million per year through the MWC TV deal, under their current agreement with ESPN they make 800K-1.2 million per game. No brainer.

Fine, that too. It certainly wasn't because the MWC couldn't deal with their "baggage."

 

[ct06111]

I know this isn't the NHL, but the years of following its conference/division alignment issues; time zones really do matter and TV execs want primetime content for maximizing advertising $ and viewership.

 

[SAMCRO]

If this all comes to a head (still skeptical b/c of CR rule #1) Its simple really, should it come down to either UConn or BYU. If the B12 wants to be spread across 3 time zones, not get a foot into the NYC market, rearrange the B12 BB tournament to avoid playing Sundsys, and add a historically good football program with a great following and a decent BB program then BYU > UConn. If they want to get into the worlds largest media market, and nearly double the population whose cable boxes would pick up a B12N, while adding a balanced and highly successful athletic department whose football is sub par of late, and historically average with a couple good years sprinkled in then UConn.> BYU. It would really come down to what the conference values most.

 

[Exit 4]

The not playing on Sundays thing is a big deal, culturally Utah and Texas aren't as close as everyone seems to believe... especially considering the strong evangelical presences in Texas politics... We've also heard from multiple sources that the B12 doesn't wan't to expand to the west. Not to mention it's in the wrong time zone. Plus BYU isn't as close as everyone seems to think and while it's not as far away as Connecticut is... it's still 1200 miles away from Austin, TX and 1100 miles from Norman, OK. We bemoan Rutger's population and proximity to NYC, but BYU may very well be bemoaning our time zone. If you're talking about going to the PAC-12? If there's a cultural difference between Baylor and BYU... think about the huge gulf between Berkeley and Provo.... Then there's BYU network issue... there's a lot working against BYU.

For all the reasons you stated and because adding Utah got the PAC 12 what it wanted (inter mtn infill) w/o the headaches. The P12 just plain didn't need what BYU brings. The B12 or any other lesser conference, on the other hand, can't be as choosy.

For the B12, I think BYU brings needed mass and that is something I don't care to admit. BYU is a better school (more following, better profile) than TT, OKST, KST and IA ST.

 

[Marty Jackson]

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
The $50m + per school per year number I mentioned for next B10 contract doesn't include bowls or playoff $. Just wanted to clarify.

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
B12 knows it is falling behind sec and B10 and knows a B12N is the only way to close that gap.

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
Expansion won't be about the best football, best recruiting grounds, or even proximity. It will be about TV market first then those things.

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
ACC is almost assuredly going to have defections. Doubling TV money is only part of it. #CIC

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
B12 stands to make a lot off of 2 AAC additions. If ACC implodes B12 stands to make a whole lot.could come very close to sec B10 $$

DocBunyan@DocBunyan
@MH ver3 not really, bc sec and b1g will cannibalize acc and take their highest properties, increasing their value even more.

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@DocBunyan schools like FSU Miami and Clemson will not be taken by sec/B10 so B12 will have great options.

Drew@HoustonsOwnDrew
@MH ver3 then why not houston?

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@HoustonsOwnDrew B12 has Texas markets already.

Drew@HoustonsOwnDrew
@MH ver3 @HoustonsOwnDrew but it's losing the Houston one fast!!!!

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@HoustonsOwnDrew carriage fees are normally statewide and LHN has Houston already. LHN will become B12N.

Drew@HoustonsOwnDrew
@MH ver3 but people don't watch it

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@HoustonsOwnDrew doesn't matter. People don't watch BTN either but still pay for it on their cable bill

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
Just heard the AAC has reached out to BYU, Boise St, SDSU, and Colorado St in regards to joining after defections of UC/Uconn. #dejavu

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
AAC offering a $5m signing bonus per school to join if all 4 come together

Brian A@BriUConn
@MH ver3 your making that up. signing bonus???

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@BriUConn I wish. This comes straight from my old BigEast contact whose info is always spot-on. these schools will keep TV deal intact.

Brian A@BriUConn
@MH ver3 approaching those 4 schools would be a smart move and could believe it

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@BriUConn I have no idea where the $$ will come from unless the AAC has a rainy day fund. Buyout $ from defectors maybe??

TheFrogCast@TheFrogCastTCU
@MH ver3 real question is who moves first to start ACC domino? Thoughts welcomed

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@TheFrogCastTCU wouldn't be suprised if B12 snags a couple first if it becomes certain others are leaving.

TheFrogCast@TheFrogCastTCU
@MH ver3 I think this plan might work. I've always wondered who wanted to be on the hook first. Sounds like a Delaney move to me.

TheFrogCast@TheFrogCastTCU
@MH ver3 but Louisville Clemson Miami and FSU sound good to me

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@TheFrogCastTCU wouldn't be suprised if B12 snags a couple first if it becomes certain others are leaving.

MH ver3 ‏@MH ver3 Feb 15
UC president tells AD to "get ready" in regards to changing conference affiliations.

Timothy Hinds ‏@Timhinds4 1h1 hour ago
@MH ver3 your big east source tel you that? JW

MH ver3‏@MH ver3
@Timhinds4 he's an AAC source now but her was a BigEast source a few years back.

Timothy Hinds ‏@Timhinds4 1h1 hour ago
@MH ver3 hmm. I wonder how they heard this.. If you hear that ACC is losing schools than why are big 12 jumping at 2 AAC schools?

MH ver3 ‏@MH ver3 1h1 hour ago
@Timhinds4 B12 needs schools NOW for the network to get off the ground-content and markets. ACC schools come later

Timothy Hinds ‏@Timhinds4 54m54 minutes ago
@MH ver3 gotcha!


ME: Ha! Just read Daniel Figurelli daring MH ver3 to agree to a wager.

When does the Big East checks run out? Is that a windfall for USF? Or is that maybe where the money is coming from?

 

[TRest]

The not playing on Sundays thing is a big deal, culturally Utah and Texas aren't as close as everyone seems to believe... especially considering the strong evangelical presences in Texas politics... We've also heard from multiple sources that the B12 doesn't wan't to expand to the west. Not to mention it's in the wrong time zone. Plus BYU isn't as close as everyone seems to think and while it's not as far away as Connecticut is... it's still 1200 miles away from Austin, TX and 1100 miles from Norman, OK. We bemoan Rutger's population and proximity to NYC, but BYU may very well be bemoaning our time zone. If you're talking about going to the PAC-12? If there's a cultural difference between Baylor and BYU... think about the huge gulf between Berkeley and Provo.... Then there's BYU network issue... there's a lot working against BYU.

I remember when the Pac 10 was looking to expand there was a lot of discussion about how Baylor and BYU would be non-starters because of their status as extremely conservative religious institutions joining a conference of progressive state universities. As far as choosing between BYU and UConn, I hope that our entire athletic department is more accomplished. They have been good, not great, at football for a very long time. I can't recall BB or any other sport doing very well on the national stage other than once every 30 years.

 

[Exit 4]

If this all comes to a head (still skeptical b/c of CR rule #1) Its simple really, should it come down to either UConn or BYU. If the B12 wants to be spread across 3 time zones, not get a foot into the NYC market, rearrange the B12 BB tournament to avoid playing Sundsys, and add a historically good football program with a great following and a decent BB program then BYU > UConn. If they want to get into the worlds largest media market, and nearly double the population whose cable boxes would pick up a B12N, while adding a balanced and highly successful athletic department whose football is sub par of late, and historically average with a couple good years sprinkled in then UConn.> BYU. It would really come down to what the conference values most.

I think it will come down to cold hard math and I think we win that case, even against BYU and its national following.

 

[Exit 4]

When does the Big East checks run out? Is that a windfall for USF? Or is that maybe where the money is coming from?

I think MHVer's twitter thread sounds logical. Add two AAC schools now to launch the new tv deal and then wait on the ACC implosion.