NBA Post-Season Thread

[NielsisGood]

I realize he was recently injured but irregardless. The difference between playoff Lowry and regular season Lowry is more pronounced than any other player in the League. I really, really like the guy so I am hoping he gets his s___ together.

And good Lord, the League is going to be in TROUBLE if Giannis ever learns to become a good shooter. The Bucks should throw a mil. a year to Chip Engellend to unlock the ultimate NBA cheat code.

We already have Giannis with a good jumper. His name is Kevin Durant.

 

[NielsisGood]

I'm amazed you don't have JSM on ignore, but all of the Ainge haters are Grade A morons.

It's been less than 4 years since he traded away their last championship core, and here's where the Celtics stand:

- 1 seed in the East with the youngest team in the playoffs
- The best odds at the #1 pick and a 50% chance at a top 2 pick (plus another likely lotto pick next year)
- Two Euro guys on the way next season, both of whom are considered to be first-round talent if they were in this year's draft
- Zero bad contracts and plenty of cap room for this offseason
- They have a 20-year-old in Jaylen Brown with tons of potential

They're set up to be really good for 7-10 years, and there are nitwits complaining that they didn't gut their team for Butler or George ... neither of whom even make you a contender.

Agreed on most points (especially not throwing away picks/young players for Butler or PG13), but the Horford contract was a reach and I'm skeptical that Jaylen Brown ever becomes a star or a 'go to guy'.

 

[Walker11]

We already have Giannis with a good jumper. His name is Kevin Durant.

Good point. I think Giannis will develop a level of physicality and playmaking that KD won't approach but he can only hope to be half the shooter of KD.

 

[UConn990411]

Agreed on most points (especially not throwing away picks/young players for Butler or PG13), but the Horford contract was a reach and I'm skeptical that Jaylen Brown ever becomes a star or a 'go to guy'.

The Horford contract is okay when you factor in how much the cap will go up. He filled an enormous need, and didn't cost the Celtics any young players or picks in the process.

 

[gtcam]

The Horford contract is okay when you factor in how much the cap will go up. He filled an enormous need, and didn't cost the Celtics any young players or picks in the process.

He gave the Celtics a "name" but I am not sure his style of play is what the CMen really needed. Horford is a 4, plays like a 4 and wants nothing to do with being the big man (5) in the rotation. This team cries for a talented true big man - someone who can dump the ball to and will create his shot or pass out. Above all they need a true board crasher and banger. They still have pockets full of draft choices and need to somehow use them and not disrupt the current roster too much to get the 5 position filled.
As far as yesterdays game is concerned - no team is going to win if their 2nd team/bench strength lets the opponent out rebound and pick them to pieces. Stevens, in my opinion, was not over his head - I think he was stunned as to how his team was getting beat up on the boards. That game should have been a Celtics victory - IT was going to get at least 35 while playing with a heavy heart and thought his teammates would rally around him.
While I liked him at OK State, I absolutely love Marcus Smart in the green and white. He is a fearless defender and can be an offensive catalyst - just needs to be more consistent with his shot.

 

[NielsisGood]

Good point. I think Giannis will develop a level of physicality and playmaking that KD won't approach but he can only hope to be half the shooter of KD.

Physicality and playmaking as in being a more explosive athlete and better passer? Because I'd say Durant (last year and this) is actually not even a finesse player anymore, and has been a great iso/playmaker guy for awhile now.

 

[NielsisGood]

The Horford contract is okay when you factor in how much the cap will go up. He filled an enormous need, and didn't cost the Celtics any young players or picks in the process.

Did he really fill a need though? He's not a main scoring option and he's a weak rebounder/rim protector for his position. The main value in signing Horford (IMO) is that it might make another legitimate star more likely to sign with Boston (or be willing to go to Boston via trade), but that's something that remains to be seen. Otherwise it was just throwing max money at somewhat of a name who might not even be a #3 scoring option and who definitely isn't a prolific rebounder/rim protector.

 

[Mr. French]

Physicality and playmaking as in being a more explosive athlete and better passer? Because I'd say Durant (last year and this) is actually not even a finesse player anymore, and has been a great iso/playmaker guy for awhile now.

I get both points, I think I'd agree though that Giannis has the Lebron/PG style of playmaker mold in a large body, whereas KD obv can but he's a scorer and shooter most of all.

I admittedly haven't watched a ton of NBA this year but I always follow it...I'm excited for GIannis, have been since I first read about him leading up to the draft.

 

[NielsisGood]

I get both points, I think I'd agree though that Giannis has the Lebron/PG style of playmaker mold in a large body, whereas KD obv can but he's a scorer and shooter most of all.

I admittedly haven't watched a ton of NBA this year but I always follow it...I'm excited for GIannis, have been since I first read about him leading up to the draft.

That's why I was asking him what he meant specifically. Both are great playmakers in a general sense, Durant is a scorer who can also distribute and Giannis is more of a passer who is also adding an offensive repertoire. Giannis + shooting is basically Durant (with better passing, though it seems unlikely Giannis ever becomes the pure shooter Durant is).

 

[tzznandrew]

You know it's playoff time when Brad Stevens looks in completely over his head.

I think this is a bit overplayed. He's almost too good a regular season coach.

His first playoffs, two years ago, were against the LeBron Cavs, and that Boston team had no right to even make the playoffs. Can't hold 0-4 against him there.

Last year, again, they were the 5 seed, but not really that good, and it went 6 games. Not really under-achieving.

This year isn't really that different, if you ask me. I think they'll pull out the Chicago series, but that will be about their level. To go deep in the playoffs you have to have the best player on the floor, and much as I enjoy Isaiah, they will never have the best player on the floor in a series. Their roster is good, but filled with 3rd and 4th best players on a championship roster (though their bench was awful yesterday).

 

[InKembaITrust]

I'm amazed you don't have JSM on ignore, but all of the Ainge haters are Grade A morons.

It's been less than 4 years since he traded away their last championship core, and here's where the Celtics stand:

- 1 seed in the East with the youngest team in the playoffs
- The best odds at the #1 pick and a 50% chance at a top 2 pick (plus another likely lotto pick next year)
- Two Euro guys on the way next season, both of whom are considered to be first-round talent if they were in this year's draft
- Zero bad contracts and plenty of cap room for this offseason
- They have a 20-year-old in Jaylen Brown with tons of potential

They're set up to be really good for 7-10 years, and there are nitwits complaining that they didn't gut their team for Butler or George ... neither of whom even make you a contender.

^^^THIS

 

[Lefty2one]

I think this is a bit overplayed. He's almost too good a regular season coach.

I think that's more on the roster than his coaching. This team just doesn't have the talent it needs for the postseason. This is also where we are in today's NBA, with current landscape of "PnR, space-the-floor, shoot a million threes" you can be a really good regular season team with a roster like Boston, Atlanta a few years back, Toronto, etc but still have little to no hope in the playoffs. This Boston team is a regular season stud but everyone knows they have zero chance of winning a championship even as the #1 seed in the East.

As much as I love the NBA this is why I can't watch regular season games outside of my favorite team, it's basically meaningless. It's also why the playoffs are absolutely amazing.

 

[InKembaITrust]

....

He gave the Celtics a "name" but I am not sure his style of play is what the CMen really needed. Horford is a 4, plays like a 4 and wants nothing to do with being the big man (5) in the rotation. This team cries for a talented true big man - someone who can dump the ball to and will create his shot or pass out. Above all they need a true board crasher and banger. They still have pockets full of draft choices and need to somehow use them and not disrupt the current roster too much to get the 5 position filled.
As far as yesterdays game is concerned - no team is going to win if their 2nd team/bench strength lets the opponent out rebound and pick them to pieces. Stevens, in my opinion, was not over his head - I think he was stunned as to how his team was getting beat up on the boards. That game should have been a Celtics victory - IT was going to get at least 35 while playing with a heavy heart and thought his teammates would rally around him.
While I liked him at OK State, I absolutely love Marcus Smart in the green and white. He is a fearless defender and can be an offensive catalyst - just needs to be more consistent with his shot.

.....sounds like Andre Drummond would be a perfect resolution for the Celts, just how do they get him

 

[tzznandrew]

I think that's more on the roster than his coaching. This team just doesn't have the talent it needs for the postseason. This is also where we are in today's NBA, with current landscape of "PnR, space-the-floor, shoot a million threes" you can be a really good regular season team with a roster like Boston, Atlanta a few years back, Toronto, etc but still have little to no hope in the playoffs. This Boston team is a regular season stud but everyone knows they have zero chance of winning a championship even as the #1 seed in the East.

As much as I love the NBA this is why I can't watch regular season games outside of my favorite team, it's basically meaningless. It's also why the playoffs are absolutely amazing.

Right, that was my poorly put point. He's a great coach who got a mediocre roster to the #1 seed in the East. But you can't win a title if Isaiah is your best player. Can't be done. He should be your third best player, Horford your fourth. Crowder, Bradley, Smart--all those players can be your fourth best player on a title team. Jaylen may grow into a 3rd best player.

If they nail the next two drafts, they'll be fine, and start to be able to convert in the playoffs. But they aren't there yet.

 

[Mr. French]

Brad Stevens' coaching is now in question? Wow, that's peak 2017, specifically peak 2017 boneyard.

NBA is all about stars taking over games/series. IT is a star, Horford is an All Star, but as others have stated, they don't have an all-time great, much less 2 to take over.

IT can do plenty on offense, but think back to guys who have carried their teams to rings. (a) There aren't THAT many guys, and (b) they do anything and everything to take over. This Celtics team isn't equipped that way.

Long story short: Stevens' coaching? Please.

 

[JSM1970]

No, but be realistic, he has 2 playoff wins, never won a series. He's a good coach, but the accolades are extreme for the actual accomplishments.

It would be a pretty big blemish to lose in the 1st round to an 8 seed.

Hopefully they avoid that.

Brad Stevens' coaching is now in question? Wow, that's peak 2017, specifically peak 2017 boneyard.

NBA is all about stars taking over games/series. IT is a star, Horford is an All Star, but as others have stated, they don't have an all-time great, much less 2 to take over.

IT can do plenty on offense, but think back to guys who have carried their teams to rings. (a) There aren't THAT many guys, and (b) they do anything and everything to take over. This Celtics team isn't equipped that way.

Long story short: Stevens' coaching? Please.

 

[gtcam]

.....sounds like Andre Drummond would be a perfect resolution for the Celts, just how do they get him[/QUOTE]


He will have to correct the free throw monkey
Would hate to see the Celts have to deal with the hack-a-Drummond thing
If only the kid would work on the FT issue but from what I hear he doesn't think it a priority in doing so and Van Gundy closes his eyes to it
His performance after the All Star break was less than mediocre

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

I doubt the Celtics want to give up assets now for Drummond. The whole Celtics rebuild feels like they are gearing up to be dominant in the East once Lebron's time has passed in 4 years or so.
However they have cap space, and lots of it, especially after next season.
I've heard many speculate, some informed some not, that Hayward could very well opt out of Utah this summer and sign with the Celtics.
Also Blake Griffin can opt out and become an unrestricted free agent after this season. Things have been pretty stagnant with the Clippers since CP3, Jordan and Griffin were united. You'd have to think Blake is considering his options, although it's hard to imagine anyway getting up and leaving the city of Los Angeles for Boston.

Also, if the Celtics do indeed end up with the 1 or 2 pick in the draft in June, and take Ball or Fultz, I think there's a very real possibility Isaiah is traded.
His contract will be up after 2017/18, he's on a very team friendly contract right now, and he will be demanding max money (as he's already pretty much stated after Horford was signed). I don't think he's worth max money. Love the guy and his offensive ability, but he's also 5'9" and a defensive liability, don't think that type of player deserves 5 years, $150 mil or whatever it is. If they can convince him to sign for far less, then that's a different story.
Rather have Ball/Fultz for the future rather than a 30 year old 5'9" point guard who is making $30 mil a year. Plus they could surely get a tidy return for IT.

 

[JSM1970]

Not sure they could get much for IT for the same reasons you wouldn't want to sign him to a max deal, which I agree with.

The key is Fultz, I guess Ball could be a possibility too, but prefer Fultz and might consider trading down and grabbing either Issac, Jackson or Tatum then and moving Crowder in the offseason

The reports on Zizic are very encouring and he could play a lot next year.

I don't think it will take 4 more years of LeBron before the East is open, 2, 3 max and maybe sooner.

And the East is quietly becoming very good, arguably deeper than the West.

3 years from now you could have

Cavs, C's, Wiz, Raptors, Bucks, Philly, Pacers (assuming George resigns) all close to or as good as West's #2+

And others like Heat, Bulls, Pistons, even Knicks, Hawks, Magic will be dry competitive

I doubt the Celtics want to give up assets now for Drummond. The whole Celtics rebuild feels like they are gearing up to be dominant in the East once Lebron's time has passed in 4 years or so.
However they have cap space, and lots of it, especially after next season.
I've heard many speculate, some informed some not, that Hayward could very well opt out of Utah this summer and sign with the Celtics.
Also Blake Griffin can opt out and become an unrestricted free agent after this season. Things have been pretty stagnant with the Clippers since CP3, Jordan and Griffin were united. You'd have to think Blake is considering his options, although it's hard to imagine anyway getting up and leaving the city of Los Angeles for Boston.

Also, if the Celtics do indeed end up with the 1 or 2 pick in the draft in June, and take Ball or Fultz, I think there's a very real possibility Isaiah is traded.
His contract will be up after 2017/18, he's on a very team friendly contract right now, and he will be demanding max money (as he's already pretty much stated after Horford was signed). I don't think he's worth max money. Love the guy and his offensive ability, but he's also 5'9" and a defensive liability, don't think that type of player deserves 5 years, $150 mil or whatever it is. If they can convince him to sign for far less, then that's a different story.
Rather have Ball/Fultz for the future rather than a 30 year old 5'9" point guard who is making $30 mil a year. Plus they could surely get a tidy return for IT.

 

[NielsisGood]

Right, that was my poorly put point. He's a great coach who got a mediocre roster to the #1 seed in the East. But you can't win a title if Isaiah is your best player. Can't be done. He should be your third best player, Horford your fourth. Crowder, Bradley, Smart--all those players can be your fourth best player on a title team. Jaylen may grow into a 3rd best player.

If they nail the next two drafts, they'll be fine, and start to be able to convert in the playoffs. But they aren't there yet.

If the Celts decide to build purely through the draft (which I hope they do) that means Isaiah, Horford, and Crowder won't be on the next Celts team that truly contends. I think Ainge sees them purely as bridge guys unless something crazy were to happen and a guy like Westbrook falls into their lap.

 

[Walker11]

Physicality and playmaking as in being a more explosive athlete and better passer? Because I'd say Durant (last year and this) is actually not even a finesse player anymore, and has been a great iso/playmaker guy for awhile now.

That's why I was asking him what he meant specifically. Both are great playmakers in a general sense, Durant is a scorer who can also distribute and Giannis is more of a passer who is also adding an offensive repertoire. Giannis + shooting is basically Durant (with better passing, though it seems unlikely Giannis ever becomes the pure shooter Durant is).

Yes to being more explosive and a better passer, and I also meant the aggression he attacks the rim with and his overall mentality I guess. Granted, KD doesn't need to attack like this because he is such a good shooter. KD isn't a finesse player, you are right, he has no problem bullying smaller defenders nowadays. I remember back in the day Chris Paul giving him a handful on D by playing so physically - that would not be possible anymore. He is arguably the best iso scorer in the game and has always been a talented passer but last year and especially this year, he is more willing. I wouldn't bet on Giannis becoming better than KD (KD is going to end up top 15-20 all time, right?) but I am excited to watch him grow. I actually wanted to check KD's early career stats because I had a suspicion Giannis was better at the same age but nope. KD was putting up 30 and 8 on good efficiency as a 21 year old. Jesus.

 

[Scoe]

 

[boog204]

Yes to being more explosive and a better passer, and I also meant the aggression he attacks the rim with and his overall mentality I guess. Granted, KD doesn't need to attack like this because he is such a good shooter. KD isn't a finesse player, you are right, he has no problem bullying smaller defenders nowadays. I remember back in the day Chris Paul giving him a handful on D by playing so physically - that would not be possible anymore. He is arguably the best iso scorer in the game and has always been a talented passer but last year and especially this year, he is more willing. I wouldn't bet on Giannis becoming better than KD (KD is going to end up top 15-20 all time, right?) but I am excited to watch him grow. I actually wanted to check KD's early career stats because I had a suspicion Giannis was better at the same age but nope. KD was putting up 30 and 8 on good efficiency as a 21 year old. Jesus.

KD is actually underrated in my opinion. His #'s are simply insane and I'd say (assuming he wins a 'ship or two at some point) will place him potentially in the top 10. Barring injury, he should probably reach 35000 points in his career (at 19000 now). That being said, Giannis is insanely fun to watch and as good as he is, he is still not even close to reaching his potential.

 

[Walker11]

KD is actually underrated in my opinion. His #'s are simply insane and I'd say (assuming he wins a 'ship or two at some point) will place him potentially in the top 10. Barring injury, he should probably reach 35000 points in his career (at 19000 now). That being said, Giannis is insanely fun to watch and as good as he is, he is still not even close to reaching his potential.

Hard to disagree with you there. KD is somehow underrated. He has never been the best player in the League, which is bizarre for a potential top 10 player, but that's life when you share your prime with the 2nd best player of all time.

 

[superjohn]

Never heard this guy speak before. After this I'm rooting for Fizdale and Fizzlies. He sounds just like Tone Loc and even looks a little like him.

 

[Walker11]

Never heard this guy speak before. After this I'm rooting for Fizdale and Fizzlies. He sounds just like Tone Loc and even looks a little like him.

You should listen to him on The Vertical Podcast with Woj. "They're not going to rook us" is an all time quote in my opinion. My only problem with this address is when he mentioned how Conley doesn't get the calls because he is a class act and doesn't run his mouth, only to mention Kawhi and his free throw total 2x. I know he wasn't disrespecting Kawhi because I know Fizdale and he was clearly doing this to motivate his team but we all know Kawhi is the embodiment of a guy who plays the game the right way.

 

[husky429]

I've got a lot of respect for Fizdale. Regardless of whether they got hosed or not, any coach who defends his players is impressive in my book .

 

[nomar]

Celtics season is on life support right now.

They can't rebound, at all. I think everyone on this board can relate to that.

 

[4UConn]

The Celts forgot how to play defense.

 

[superjohn]

In the past day Fizdale has become my new favorite guy in the NBA.