NBA Playoffs

[Horatio]

I’ll give the Warriors this: they make a die-hard Celtics fan root for the Cavs. That whole team is mind-blowingly unlikable. Curry is the goshdarn worst. Tries to have this underdog mentality because he didn’t get scholarship offers to Duke or UNC. Bro, you grew up the son of NBA all star. No one needs to pity you for anything.
You wanna know why the younguns these days act like entitled little whiny snobs? They all root for the Warriors.

I never hated them until last night. That was terrible. Draymond was quiet and reasonable until he finally hit those two 3ptr’s, the call reversal and the JR incident. After that he started the taunting. Punk

 

[MadDogRevival]

Bunch of MJ Stats

Year MJ took off, Bulls made it to the finals, right?
That tells the tale.
LeBron is the best player of all time. That's not just my opinion. That's a proven mathematical fact the truth of which is more accepted than the quadratic equation.

 

[MadDogRevival]

By the way . . .
Any clowns who think LeBron gets the calls need to review the Looney foul on LeBron's arm late in the 4th and the once-in-a-never charge reversal after the bogus "we were checking his feet" basis for the review. Lol.
Kevin "the Twig" Durant gets so many more calls than James it's laughable.

 

[intlzncster]

I never hated them until last night. That was terrible. Draymond was quiet and reasonable until he finally hit those two 3ptr’s, the call reversal and the JR incident. After that he started the taunting. Punk

Thing is with Draymond, I absolutely love his game and the edge he has on the court. Same reason I loved Rodman. I could just do without both of their antics.

If you asked me if I want them on my team, it's an unequivocal 'yes'.

 

[intlzncster]

LeBron is the best player of all time. That's not just my opinion. That's a proven mathematical fact the truth of which is more accepted than the quadratic equation.

Um, no. Though I get why you want your opinion to be fact.

 

[Lefty2one]

Year MJ took off, Bulls made it to the finals, right?
That tells the tale.

No, they lost in the second round.

 

[Lefty2one]

He didn't really destroy Shaq. What he did to Robinson should have lead to assault charges.

Shaq has admitted it several times, granted Shaq also put up amazing numbers in that series.

 

[intlzncster]

Shaq has admitted it several times, granted Shaq also put up amazing numbers in that series.

Shaq was not stoppable. There were just varying degrees of failure.

 

[ihatepants]

LOL if you still think Jordan is better than LeBron. LeBron is the GOAT because context matters. Dragging a wasteman team to the finals many times is more impressive than winning with a team full of Hall of Famers. Beating the greatest regular season team of all time is worth a ton. If you want to talk resumes and accomplishments, sure, but that argument can't be had until LeBron's done. But there has never been someone playing the game at a better and higher level than he is.

 

[ihatepants]

Year MJ took off, Bulls made it to the finals, right?
That tells the tale.
LeBron is the best player of all time. That's not just my opinion. That's a proven mathematical fact the truth of which is more accepted than the quadratic equation.

I also remember when Jordan was a quitter in his prime and the Bulls went from 57–25 stunningly down to 55–27 without him. I wonder how many games the Cavs will win next year with LeBron on the Rockets (or Sixers)?

 

[Lefty2one]

Well, I watched him with the Bulls, and even at that age, he was the best pound for pound rebounder I've ever seen.

He was also still an elite defender. Bosh was often called soft. While Rodman was the exact opposite. Dude was incredibly strong. Hell, they even matched him up against Shaq! And Rodman could hold his own....as much as one can against Shaq.

Yes, Bosh is by far the better offensive player, so tzz's point about him being a more complete player is true. I said I'd take Rodman over him, because often times, it is more beneficial to have a player with 1 or 2 elite skills. But that's my opinion.

Rodman never made All Stars then because of his scoring, and more importantly, his antics.

I agree - he was a HOFer for a reason. My point was more that those Bulls teams were perfectly assembled as opposed to being loaded with talent. Kind of like what the Patriots have been under Belichick. They found the perfect pieces for the Triangle and to compliment Jordan's game. As I'm sure you remember, in it's heydey the Triangle was considered a pretty big advantage in an era of iso-heavy basketball. They found the right pieces for it (length, versatility, passing skills, smarts, etc) and maximized the ability of those role players.

No one called the Bulls a super team. Hell, forget today's era, those Bulls teams also had less overall talent than the Showtime Lakers, 80s Celtics or potentially the Bad Boy Pistons (who are criminally underrated from a historical perspective IMO). Those teams were all deeper and more talented than the Bulls, but the Bulls had Jordan.

 

[superjohn]

LOL if you still think Jordan is better than LeBron. LeBron is the GOAT because context matters. Dragging a wasteman team to the finals many times is more impressive than winning with a team full of Hall of Famers. Beating the greatest regular season team of all time is worth a ton. If you want to talk resumes and accomplishments, sure, but that argument can't be had until LeBron's done. But there has never been someone playing the game at a better and higher level than he is.

Jordan played with one teammate who made all-star games while playing with him. I now see you're calling Jordan a quitter because he took a break after his dad was murdered. If you're older than 15 years old these posts are extremely embarrassing, if you're a young teen it's time to educate yourself on some history. Lebron is amazing and people can make the argument he's the best ever if they like but the amount of people in this thread trying to make his case by lying about Jordan is not a good way to do it.

 

[Lefty2one]

LOL if you still think Jordan is better than LeBron. LeBron is the GOAT because context matters. Dragging a wasteman team to the finals many times is more impressive than winning with a team full of Hall of Famers. Beating the greatest regular season team of all time is worth a ton. If you want to talk resumes and accomplishments, sure, but that argument can't be had until LeBron's done. But there has never been someone playing the game at a better and higher level than he is.

Please clue us all in on the "team full of Hall of Famers" that MJ played on. Hell, you can't even say he played on a team full of All Stars.

I also remember when Jordan was a quitter in his prime and the Bulls went from 57–25 stunningly down to 55–27 without him. I wonder how many games the Cavs will win next year with LeBron on the Rockets (or Sixers)?

Like the regular season means that much? Just ask the Raptors the last three years or the 60-win Hawks from a few years ago. The NBA regular season has always been a farce; you can't judge much from it. The bottom line is the Bulls went from a 3-peat, to failing to get past the second round, to another 3-peat once Jordan was back in the fold and in shape.

 

[superjohn]

This is the problem when young (or ignorant) people go back and look at history. They don't know the nuances of the era. They think Pippen and Rodman were at their peak for the entire duration of their Chicago tenures. They think Horace Grant was some great player; he averaged more than 15 PPG one time and it was 15.1. He made one All-Star team ('94, without MJ). Pippen wasn't an All-Star during the final Bulls dynasty season in '98. Rodman never made the All-Star team with the Bulls.

@UofCT2009 ...

Wade, Bosh, Love and Kyrie ALL made multiple All-Star teams while teammates of LeBron. You know how many All-Star teammates MJ? One: Pippen. Seven times. Not Grant, not Rodman, not Kukoc. He had ONE All-Star teammate his entire career and people act like he was on loaded teams.

In 25 years, people will bash LeBron for losing the 2014 Finals because they'll think he lost it with a prime Wade. Our country cares less and less about history with each passing decade. It's a shame.

Really well said, told a buddy this same thing on facebook the other day. Somehow people championing Lebron have created a revisionist narrative where Jordan played with a team full of all-stars and hall of famers his whole career.

 

[ihatepants]

Please clue us all in on the "team full of Hall of Famers" that MJ played on. Hell, you can't even say he played on a team full of All Stars.

Like the regular season means that much? Just ask the Raptors the last three years or the 60-win Hawks from a few years ago. The NBA regular season has always been a farce; you can't judge much from it. The bottom line is the Bulls went from a 3-peat, to failing to get past the second round, to another 3-peat once Jordan was back in the fold and in shape.

Uh. Pippen and Rodman are both in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. LeBron’s played with one future HOFer in his career - Wade. If the regular season doesn’t matter, then you can shove all those stats you posted up your ass, because “it doesn’t mean that much”

 

[superjohn]

Uh. Pippen and Rodman are both in the hall of fame. LeBron’s played with one future HOFer in his career - Wade. If the regular season doesn’t matter, then you can shove all those stats you posted up your ass, because “it doesn’t mean that much”

This is so sad. Lebron played with Wade, Bosh, and Allen. Kyrie if he stays healthy will also probably end up there.

You're not good at this.

 

[ihatepants]

This is so sad. Lebron played with Wade, Bosh, and Allen. Kyrie if he stays healthy will also probably end up there.

You're not good at this.

Allen was a role player the time he played with Bron. Bosh is a borderline hall of famer. Kyrie has a long way to go before making it.

 

[superjohn]

Allen was a role player the time he played with Bron. Bosh is a borderline hall of famer. Kyrie has a long way to go before making it.

Without Ray Allen Lebron would be 2-6 in the finals and staring down 2-7.

 

[Lefty2one]

Uh. Pippen and Rodman are both in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. LeBron’s played with one future HOFer in his career - Wade. If the regular season doesn’t matter, then you can shove all those stats you posted up your ass, because “it doesn’t mean that much”

So he won his first three titles with only one - Pippen. The second he had a 34-36-year-old Rodman, while Pippen's back was ailing and wasn't the same player he was earlier in his career. That's a team full of Hall of Famers? Okay...

Also, you acknowledge that Ray wasn't the same player during his time with LeBron but don't do the same for MJ with his supporting cast?

Wade, Bosh, Allen, Kyrie and even Kevin Love will all be HOFers.

 

[ihatepants]

Without Ray Allen Lebron would be 2-6 in the finals and staring down 2-7.

That’s like saying “without Robert Horry making X shot for the Spurs/Lakers, Duncan/Kobe would be blah blah”

 

[ihatepants]

So he won his first three titles with only one - Pippen. The second he had a 34-36-year-old Rodman, while Pippen's back was ailing and wasn't the same player he was earlier in his career. That's a team full of Hall of Famers? Okay...

Also, you acknowledge that Ray wasn't the same player during his time with LeBron but don't do the same for MJ with his supporting cast?

Wade, Bosh, Allen, Kyrie and even Kevin Love will all be HOFers.

Saying Pippen was not the same player is straight up BS. He was still in the top 5 in the NBA in win shares in both 96 and 97. How many teammates did Lebron have also have top 10 WS when he played with them? None. Rodman was also in the top 5 in defensive win shares and top 10 in defensive rating after he joined the Bulls.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Really well said, told a buddy this same thing on facebook the other day. Somehow people championing Lebron have created a revisionist narrative where Jordan played with a team full of all-stars and hall of famers his whole career.

I'm curious, you think Jordan's in the finals with this Cavs crew? I think the Jordan v. Lebron debate is silly given how difficult it is to compare across eras but I'm coming around to the idea that Lebron is the best basketball player we've ever seen. You gotta be willfully ignorant or have just started watching basketball in the last ten years to reject the case for MJ though.

 

[superjohn]

That’s like saying “without Robert Horry making X shot for the Spurs/Lakers, Duncan/Kobe would be blah blah”

Why not just admit you're wrong and Lebron has played with more all-stars and Hall of Famers than Jordan has?

 

[superjohn]

I'm curious, you think Jordan's in the finals with this Cavs crew? I think the Jordan v. Lebron debate is silly given how difficult it is to compare across eras but I'm coming around to the idea that Lebron is the best basketball player we've ever seen. You gotta be willfully ignorant or have just started watching basketball in the last ten years to reject the case for MJ though.

Probably not but there is no way of knowing. Just like I think Jordan has at least 8 titles if his pops was never murdered and he doesn't retire early. What ifs.

 

[ihatepants]

Why not just admit you're wrong and Lebron has played with more all-stars and Hall of Famers than Jordan has?

Because you’re acting like Pippen isn’t a top 25 player in the history of the NBA and keep forgetting that he’s better than anyone LeBron has ever played with.