NBA Playoffs

[auror]

Unless fake basketball has a very different definition of when you start the upward motion (cause I know they have fake rules Line continuation already) that’s a charge. Clearly there before take off. You don’t have to be a statue to have legal guarding position.

Upward ball motion after gathering ball, not body upwards. So I guess, yes, it does.

 

[tzznandrew]

MJ would have beat up JR...

 

[mjmoney23]

But when the Cavs lose this series people will rag on lebron for going 3-6 in finals. As if Jordan or any player would lead these misfits better than lebron to winning the chip

Jordan also didn' hand pick his teammates on two different teams. Let's not forget before the playoffs started who was the overwhelming favorite to come out of the East.

 

[Scoe]

JR also totally screwed up on the Curry 3 at the end of the half, he stupidly gambled going for the ball rather then staying in front of Curry, Lebron was giving him a look at half court like wtf was that. I guess we shouldn't be surprised you wanted JR on your team this is what you get.

 

[the Q]

Upward ball motion after gathering ball, not body upwards. So I guess, yes, it does.

Looks like it's not going up yet to me. but either way, there's 0% chance that should've been overturned on replay no matter how it was called on the floor.

Then we have to establish a definition for what is called "upward"

i.e. like the NFL where the arm is coming forward doesn't mean when the arm is coming forward because the arm is coming forward light years before when they deem it coming forward.

 

[auror]

Looks like it's not going up yet to me. but either way, there's 0% chance that should've been overturned on replay no matter how it was called on the floor.

Then we have to establish a definition for what is called "upward"

i.e. like the NFL where the arm is coming forward doesn't mean when the arm is coming forward because the arm is coming forward light years before when they deem it coming forward.

Just watch (there's a really good angle around 1:05, plus here for LeBron's feet) what Durant is doing with the ball when LeBron's left foot gets planted. It's not like the NFL, because gathering and initiating an upward shooting motion is intuitive when contrasted with dribbling. There are corner cases, but none of them apply here.

It's close, but this isn't a case where you don't have the right camera angle to see what you need to see. You can still overturn if the timing is close, if it's obvious.

 

[UChusky916]

For those arguing it was a block -- this video here is a clear explanation of the rules. Feet do not have to be set in the NBA rules. Just have to be in a 'legal guarding position' prior to shooter starting upward shooting motion.

Lebron was in a legal guarding position prior to Durant going up. Clear charge. Feet moving is a CBB rule and totally irrelevant in the NBA.

Not only should the call NOT have been reviewed, because he was CLEARLY outside of the restricted area, but it was also a charge, and you cannot overturn a call like that given those circumstances. Atrocious officiating. Add onto the fact that there were 3 or 4 other sketchy calls that went GS's way down the stretch... and it begins to stink.

 

[Dove]

"BUT, IT'S CHIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[intlzncster]

If Barkley didn't hold bird hostage, he might have killed Dr J.

 

[PAHusky]

Jordan also didn' hand pick his teammates on two different teams. Let's not forget before the playoffs started who was the overwhelming favorite to come out of the East.

MJ didn't hand pick his teammates because his franchise was smart enough to draft a top 25 or 30 all time player and to add the best rebounder of all time in free agency. Not like MJ was winning rings before Pippen showed up. Meanwhile, Dan Gilbert is a clown. And the cavs were the 4 seed in the east and far from an overwhelming favorite to make it out of the east this year, but ok.

I think MJ is better than Lebron, but it's close, and forceful arguments for one over the other always seem a bit ridiculous and reveal some bias.

 

[tzznandrew]

Just watch (there's a really good angle around 1:05, plus here for LeBron's feet) what Durant is doing with the ball when LeBron's left foot gets planted. It's not like the NFL, because gathering and initiating an upward shooting motion is intuitive when contrasted with dribbling. There are corner cases, but none of them apply here.

It's close, but this isn't a case where you don't have the right camera angle to see what you need to see. You can still overturn if the timing is close, if it's obvious.

LeBron is also not squared.

Still, this was a game of close calls and fouls all over the place that were missed or not called. The end comes down to George Hill, 80% FT shooter, missing a FT, and JR Smith being JR Smith.

 

[UofCT]

MJ didn't hand pick his teammates because his franchise was smart enough to draft a top 25 or 30 all time player and to add the best rebounder of all time in free agency. Not like MJ was winning rings before Pippen showed up. Meanwhile, Dan Gilbert is a clown. And the cavs were the 4 seed in the east and far from an overwhelming favorite to make it out of the east this year, but ok.

I think MJ is better than Lebron, but it's close, and forceful arguments for one over the other always seem a bit ridiculous and reveal some bias.

It's not close at all, just look at how good the Bulls were in 1994 and 1995. They won 55 and 47 games respectively. None of Lebron's team would have even sniffed the playoffs without him.

2010-11 Cavs (19-63)
2014-15 Heat (37-45)

MJ also failed to make the playoffs twice on the Wizards. That counts against him.

 

[MadDogRevival]

After having thought about this for a little longer, it's depressing that the refs played such a big role in determining the outcome. I have never seen a charge/block call overturned. The grounds for reviewing seemed flimsy. The reversal seemed flimsy. The call on Hill in OT seemed flimsy.

NBA is a game of one call here an one call there. There was a point where the Cavs were rolling last year and I thought they might pull out a win and Durant, with 2 fouls early, hits LeBron in the head with his bicep on a block attempt and there is no call. Would have put LBJ at the line and Durant on the bench. Instead, Curry comes up and hits a 3 and the rout is on.

Last night was embarrassing for the NBA. Everybody except ESPN is talking about the refs today. Most non-GS fans think the Cavs got screwed.

Side note - I used to think Mike and Mike was the worst of the worst. Just two Milquetoast hosts doing their best to not offend anybody while making soft and warm fuzzies.
Listened to Mike and the New Guy for 10 minutes today. Oh my lawd how awful. Can't believe it's worse. Vanilla and pasteurized. Talked for 10 minutes about the game and not once did the word "ref" come up.

 

[Kitaman]

Was with Lebron until he stood up and he's wearing tight shorts and he picks up his purse before storming out of the room...

Check out @SportsCenter’s Tweet:

I saw that and said W T F?? I always say I'm glad and happy I'm an old fart. I really wonder where we're headed, but at least I'm on easy street.

 

[superjohn]

After having thought about this for a little longer, it's depressing that the refs played such a big role in determining the outcome. I have never seen a charge/block call overturned. The grounds for reviewing seemed flimsy. The reversal seemed flimsy. The call on Hill in OT seemed flimsy.

NBA is a game of one call here an one call there. There was a point where the Cavs were rolling last year and I thought they might pull out a win and Durant, with 2 fouls early, hits LeBron in the head with his bicep on a block attempt and there is no call. Would have put LBJ at the line and Durant on the bench. Instead, Curry comes up and hits a 3 and the rout is on.

Last night was embarrassing for the NBA. Everybody except ESPN is talking about the refs today. Most non-GS fans think the Cavs got screwed.

Side note - I used to think Mike and Mike was the worst of the worst. Just two Milquetoast hosts doing their best to not offend anybody while making soft and warm fuzzies.
Listened to Mike and the New Guy for 10 minutes today. Oh my lawd how awful. Can't believe it's worse. Vanilla and pasteurized. Talked for 10 minutes about the game and not once did the word "ref" come up.

Rule to live by . . . never trust any source of information online that does not have a free response comment section. The real news is in the comments.

And Lebron never brings Cleveland a championship if Lebron doesn't teabag Draymond and the refs overreact. The woulda,coulda, shoulda is a little much. I promise there is no conspiracy going on to keep Lebron from winning championships.

 

[Rocktheworld]

And Lebron never brings Cleveland a championship if Lebron doesn't teabag Draymond and the refs overreact. The woulda,coulda, shoulda is a little much. I promise there is no conspiracy going on to keep Lebron from winning championships.

I mean if there was a conspiracy, it would be if anything to make the series as long as possible for the sake of money, right? Well to that end I’d figure they’d let LeBron win game 1 if that were the case

 

[mjmoney23]

I'll give one of the 2 years in Washington, MJ was hurt for around 20 games in the other. Let's not act like LeBron didnt have help though, he should have won at least 3 in Miami wirh wade and bosh. Plus he left Miami for a better team in Cleveland with Irving and eventually love. He has made 2 power play moves to change franchises to chase rings. No came out of retirement at 38 to try to lead a bad Washington team to the playoffs. Very different than jumping ship twice in your prime.

 

[superjohn]

I'll give one of the 2 years in Washington, he was hurt for around 20 games in the other. Let's not act like LeBron didnt have help though, he should have won at least 3 in Miami wirh wade and bosh. Plus he left Miami for a better team in Cleveland with Irving and eventually love. He has made 2 power play moves to change franchises to chase rings. No came out of retirement at 38 to try to lead a bad Washington team to the playoffs. Very different than jumping ship twice in your prime.

I've always said Jordan would have 8 or more titles had his father never been murdered and his early retirement at 34. Lebron did the smart thing to create an awesome team down in Miami and help the Cavs get #1 picks before his return. I didn't like the whole announcement "taking my talents to South Beach" thing but it was a smart move and can't hold it against him.

 

[Lefty2one]

Some fun MJ/LeBron fodder...

Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…

 

[Lefty2one]

It's not close at all, just look at how good the Bulls were in 1994 and 1995. They won 55 and 47 games respectively. None of Lebron's team would have even sniffed the playoffs without him.

2010-11 Cavs (19-63)
2014-15 Heat (37-45)

Wade was injured a bunch and Bosh missed half the season for the 2015 Heat. Not a good comparison. That was absolutely a playoff team if healthy. The 2011 Cavs more closely resemble the 1999 Bulls than the '94 or '95 team. The '94 team won one playoff series; so with MJ they're winning titles and without him they can't get out of the second round.

MJ's point guards were never anything special nor were his centers (lumbering stiffs who rebounded and protected the rim). Horace Grant was a nice player. Rodman was 34 when he got to Chicago. Kukoc was a good role player who never averaged more than 13 PPG as MJ's teammate. Pippen was a great #2 but let's be real, he's not the player Wade was and Kyrie was better in 2016 Finals (27/4/4 and outplayed Steph) than Pippen was in every Finals besides maybe 1991. Also, Pippen was not a great player during the second 3-peat as he often battled back problems. I can't remember if it was the '97 or '98 Finals but Pippen could barely move. He was not the same player by that point. A lot of people really overrate MJ's supporting cast. They were a good "team", the pieces fit and Phil made things work but MJ was the freak who made everything elite.

LeBron has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love. That's better than Pippen, Grant and Rodman. LeBron's three titles came when he had a #2 who was one of the best players in the NBA (Wade/Kyrie). LeBron losing the 2011 Finals is such a damning blemish on his legacy, especially given how nonaggressive he was in the latter half of the series. Prime LeBron, prime Wade and prime Bosh and you lose to a Dallas team who's second best player was....Jason Terry, I guess? To this day, it's the strangest thing I've seen from a star athlete. Something like that never happens to MJ, not a million years.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Some fun MJ/LeBron fodder...

Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…

We can pick and choose statistics all day my man.

 

[UofCT]

Wade was injured a bunch and Bosh missed half the season for the 2015 Heat. Not a good comparison. That was absolutely a playoff team if healthy. The 2011 Cavs more closely resemble the 1999 Bulls than the '94 or '95 team. The '94 team won one playoff series; so with MJ they're winning titles and without him they can't get out of the second round.

MJ's point guards were never anything special nor were his centers (lumbering stiffs who rebounded and protected the rim). Horace Grant was a nice player. Rodman was 34 when he got to Chicago. Kukoc was a good role player who never averaged more than 13 PPG as MJ's teammate. Pippen was a great #2 but let's be real, he's not the player Wade was and Kyrie was better in 2016 Finals (27/4/4 and outplayed Steph) than Pippen was in every Finals besides maybe 1991. Also, Pippen was not a great player during the second 3-peat as he often battled back problems. I can't remember if it was the '97 or '98 Finals but Pippen could barely move. He was not the same player by that point. A lot of people really overrate MJ's supporting cast. They were a good "team", the pieces fit and Phil made things work but MJ was the freak who made everything elite.

LeBron has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love. That's better than Pippen, Grant and Rodman. LeBron's three titles came when he had a #2 who was one of the best players in the NBA (Wade/Kyrie). LeBron losing the 2011 Finals is such a damning blemish on his legacy, especially given how nonaggressive he was in the latter half of the series. Prime LeBron, prime Wade and prime Bosh and you lose to a Dallas team who's second best player was....Jason Terry, I guess? To this day, it's the strangest thing I've seen from a star athlete. Something like that never happens to MJ, not a million years.

Well they weren't healthy and they didn't make the playoffs. Their record isn't an opinion it's a fact.

 

[UofCT]

LeBron has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love. That's better than Pippen, Grant and Rodman.

HAHAHAHA

 

[intlzncster]

Some fun MJ/LeBron fodder...

Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…

Damn. Pretty strong case for MJ right there (had my vote before seeing that). I think LBJ is going to get some serious consideration based on longevity, as i think he could play another 5+ years.

 

[intlzncster]

We can pick and choose statistics all day my man.

Yeah, but a number of those stats are absurd.