NBA Finals Thread

[NielsisGood]

The fact that there is an argument over this is exactly why the series appears to be a mismatch. Cleveland is playing with a big 3, GS with a big 4. Beyond that, the Warriors are far deeper.

Well yeah obviously but I think he was just trying to do a flat comparison of the best 3 players on each team, and then use the 4th member of the big 4 to show how GSW has more pieces.

 

[ivrytontusker]

Lebron left his team to join forces with a top 5 player in Wade and perennial all-star in Bosh, how is that not similar to what Durant did? The only difference is that Lebron helped to form his superteam and Durant joined an already-made superteam. At the end of the day, both guys left their teams for a better situation.

Lebron joined a team that lost in the playoffs in the first round the previous year. He then joined a team that won 33 games the previous year. Not a 73 win team that was 4 points away from winning two titles in a row.

 

[JSM1970]

Hypothetical: if you're C's would you give up #1 and say Smart for Klay?

I think I would

Klay is buried on that team and probably wants to be the MAN somewhere

 

[UChusky916]

Draymond > Klay in terms of comparing "big 3"

My point exactly.
CLE can't compete with a team that has a squad so solid that you could argue WHICH of it's players make up it's BIG 3. And not only are GS deep, they also have 2 of the 3 best players in the world. So they've got top-heavy talent too.

And despite that... people were killing Lebron for asking the Cavs to get more talent before the trade deadline.

Critics will do anything to make Lebron look like a whining baby when he doesn't get what he wants to compete. When he wins, they say he's done it with the help of superstars. And on the flip side, when he doesn't win, they'll remind us all of his NBA finals record compared to MJ's.

Lose-lose-lose situation for him. The 'Lebron haters' get old very fast.

 

[NielsisGood]

Lebron joined a team that lost in the playoffs in the first round the previous year. He then joined a team that won 33 games the previous year. Not a 73 win team that was 4 points away from winning two titles in a row.

He joined a Miami team that had a top 5 (probably 3rd best honestly) player, and they added another top 15-20 player. He then left after Wade got old and went back to a Cavs team that had an all-star guard and traded a #1 pick for another all-star big coming off a 26-12 season. Bosh to Miami and the Wiggins/Love trade were moves Lebron had full knowledge of/helped orchestrate and his own changing teams was contingent upon them.

 

[JSM1970]

It's not about the Big 4 vs Big 3

As an aside, Green is a total joke. Most overrated player in sports. He runs the floor in a wide open game, throws to shooters and hits a a few shots himself. You don't think Crowder could do that same thing and he's 1/3rd of the cost and 99% less of a total %#^* head? Or 10+ other dudes

The difference is Dubs 2nd unit players like Livingston, Clark, Iggy, McGee, West way outplaying Cavs

My point exactly.

CLE can't compete with a team that has a squad so solid that you could argue who are the BIG 3 and maybe even a 'BIG 4'. So not only are they deep, they also have 2 of the top 3 players in the world.

Yet people were killing Lebron for asking for more talent before the trade deadline.

Critics will do anything to make Lebron look like a whining baby when he doesn't get what he wants to compete. And on the flip side, when he doesn't win, they'll remind us all of his NBA finals record compared to MJ.

Lose-lose situation.

 

[BUConn10]

Lebron left his team to join forces with a top 5 player in Wade and perennial all-star in Bosh, how is that not similar to what Durant did? The only difference is that Lebron helped to form his superteam and Durant joined an already-made superteam. At the end of the day, both guys left their teams for a better situation.



Don't think there's much of an argument for the Spurs unless they do get CP3. Without Paul I'm not sure what advantages you could argue the Spurs having other than coaching.

Lebron joined a barely playoff team and made it into a finals contender overnight with Bosh coming along.

Durant, a top 3 player in the league, most recent MVP not named Curry, and the team second most likely to displace the current warriors, joined a team that the year before had won 73-9 games (already arguably one of the best teams of the last decade), and simultaneously dismantled the warriors greatest threat.

There is a huge difference between Lebron to MIA than Durant to GSW. What don't people get about this?

 

[NielsisGood]

Hypothetical: if you're C's would you give up #1 and say Smart for Klay?

I think I would

Klay is buried on that team and probably wants to be the MAN somewhere

I wouldn't. I don't think Klay is a good enough ball handler to be put into a James Harden type situation. His current situation suits him perfectly since he can just catch & shoot and catch the ball with a step on his man going toward the rim.

 

[tzznandrew]

Lebron joined a barely playoff team

Miami won 47 games and was the #5 seed in the playoffs. They weren't the best, but they were pretty darn good.

 

[NielsisGood]

It's not about the Big 4 vs Big 3

As an aside, Green is a total joke. Most overrated player in sports. He runs the floor in a wide open game, throws to shooters and hits a a few shots himself. You don't think Crowder could do that same thing and he's 1/3rd of the cost and 99% less of a total %#^* head? Or 10+ other dudes

The difference is Dubs 2nd unit players like Livingston, Clark, Iggy, McGee, West way outplaying Cavs

Call the hot take police! Draymond is arguably the best defensive player in the league, can guard any position on the floor, and led the team in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.

Lebron joined a barely playoff team and made it into a finals contender overnight with Bosh coming along.

Durant, a top 3 player in the league, most recent MVP not named Curry, and the team second most likely to displace the current warriors, joined a team that the year before had won 73-9 games (already arguably one of the best teams of the last decade), and simultaneously dismantled the warriors greatest threat.

There is a huge difference between Lebron to MIA than Durant to GSW. What don't people get about this?

Both situations are guys not being able to win in their current situation and leaving for a better opportunity. You're also intentionally discounting the addition of Bosh/Love with both of Lebron's team changes.

 

[auror]

Hypothetical: if you're C's would you give up #1 and say Smart for Klay?

I think I would

Klay is buried on that team and probably wants to be the MAN somewhere

This is tough. I think I'd give up 2018 #1 and Smart, but not 2017. I'm not sure the salary works on a deal like this though.

 

[superjohn]

Watching these finals, all I can do is think back to mid-year when the media and NBA fans KILLED Lebron for speaking publicly about wanting the Cavs to make some moves and get more talent before the trade deadline. It makes me laugh at how ridiculous those criticizing him were... just look at this series. Lebron saw this match-up coming and knew the talent disparity was obviously not in his team's favor.

Lebron, despite playing superhuman at times last night, can't will his team to victory when you look at GS's talent -- specifically their supporting cast's contributions compared to Cleveland's.

Lebron/Kyrie/Love cancel out Steph/Durant/Thompson. (even though Kyrie played poorly last night)

Compare the depth of the 2 teams beyond those top guys:

• GS has Draymond, Livingston, Clark (all put up double digit points last night) and throw in Iguodala too.
• CLE has Korver, Shumpert (1-6 last night), Thompson (only 4 reb last night) and JR Smith (0 pts last night). Richard Jefferson and Deron Williams (0-5, 0 pts last night) were being relied on for key minutes and they're WAYYYY too old to be playing in a finals against a high-tempo team like GS.

That's the game right there. GS has quality pieces outside of their top 3 guys, and they all can contribute. With CLE, it's a crap shoot.

For CLE to steal a game, their big 3 would have to be practically perfect, and they need bench guys to contribute a lot. Even then, they'd need one of GS big 3 to have a bad game. That may not even be enough.

GS just has too much talent. Curry can't be guarded behind the arc. Durant can't be guarded anywhere in inside the arc. And outside of their top 3, they still are getting meaningful contributions from talented guys.

The only funny thing about that is Lebron's team has the highest payroll ever and is entirely constructed of players he told management to sign. Warriors are just better and it's usually a better idea to just let the players play while management manages.

 

[NielsisGood]

The only funny thing about that is Lebron's team has the highest payroll ever and is entirely constructed of players he told management to sign. Warriors are just better and it's usually a better idea to just let the players play while management manages.

Lebron doesn't care. He has another opt-out after next year and he'll probably just leave and set up a new super team somewhere.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Lebron doesn't care. He has another opt-out after next year and he'll probably just leave and set up a new super team somewhere.

LeBron might just join Golden State or on behalf of the Celtics I'd be willing to let bygones be bygones and take him. Of course that might mean PP, KG and Rondo might never come to Celtics old timer's day.

 

[FartMan69]

Lebron joined a barely playoff team and made it into a finals contender overnight with Bosh coming along.

Durant, a top 3 player in the league, most recent MVP not named Curry, and the team second most likely to displace the current warriors, joined a team that the year before had won 73-9 games (already arguably one of the best teams of the last decade), and simultaneously dismantled the warriors greatest threat.

There is a huge difference between Lebron to MIA than Durant to GSW. What don't people get about this?

What does Miami's record the previous year mean when you and the best Power forward in the game join them. It might as well have been a loaded expansion team at that point. People were pissed immediately thinking they'd win the title every year.

 

[JSM1970]

This says Steph is the 3rd best defender in the league, even though we all acknowledge he doesn't play any D

Useless

NBA.com/Stats | Players Defense

I'm saying Crowder could do the same thing in that system where you're the 4th option and you can distribute to 3 of the 8-10 best offensive players in the league

Call the hot take police! Draymond is arguably the best defensive player in the league, can guard any position on the floor, and led the team in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.




Both situations are guys not being able to win in their current situation and leaving for a better opportunity. You're also intentionally discounting the addition of Bosh/Love with both of Lebron's team changes.

 

[NielsisGood]

This says Steph is the 3rd best defender in the league, even though we all acknowledge he doesn't play any D

Useless

NBA.com/Stats | Players Defense

I'm saying Crowder could do the same thing in that system where you're the 4th option and you can distribute to 3 of the 8-10 best offensive players in the league

There's literally not a single thing Crowder does as well or better than Draymond aside from shoot 3s. The fact that you pointed out the distributing when that's the single biggest difference in the 2 players is pretty hilarious.

 

[JSM1970]

He doesn't distribute in the C's system

He could easily do what Green does at 1/3rs the cost and 9,000% fewer headaches

Green is a total s%£¥ head

Did you see where Coach K basically benched him during the Olympics because he couldn't deal with his antics

There's literally not a single thing Crowder does as well or better than Draymond aside from shoot 3s. The fact that you pointed out the distributing when that's the single biggest difference in the 2 players is pretty hilarious.

 

[mauconnfan]

KD had a 3-1 lead on the team that he eventually joined. He left a legitimate contender behind to join the team he couldn't beat. LeBron kicked a dysfunctional franchise to the curb.

Pretty funny how some look at it different. I saw a guy from his own city start an all star team in Miami, talk dysfunctional all you want he's at least as guilty as KD.
Neither move has anything which appeals to most but to single out one and not the other is ridiculous.

 

[NielsisGood]

He doesn't distribute in the C's system

He could easily do what Green does at 1/3rs the cost and 9,000% fewer headaches

Green is a total s%£¥ head

Did you see where Coach K basically benched him during the Olympics because he couldn't deal with his antics

Celts play a very similar style to the Warriors so if Crowder isn't distributing in the Celts system he wouldn't do so in the GSW system. Crowder also isn't even a PF.



Draymond didn't play much in the Olympics because K used Durant at the 4 mainly. Melo also saw inflated minutes at the 3/4 as a gesture of respect in his final Olympics. Not sure why this even matters though.

 

[champs99and04]

My point exactly.
CLE can't compete with a team that has a squad so solid that you could argue WHICH of it's players make up it's BIG 3. And not only are GS deep, they also have 2 of the 3 best players in the world. So they've got top-heavy talent too.

And despite that... people were killing Lebron for asking the Cavs to get more talent before the trade deadline.

Critics will do anything to make Lebron look like a whining baby when he doesn't get what he wants to compete. When he wins, they say he's done it with the help of superstars. And on the flip side, when he doesn't win, they'll remind us all of his NBA finals record compared to MJ's.

Lose-lose-lose situation for him. The 'Lebron haters' get old very fast.

And it can also be argued whether Cleveland has a real big three when two of them are decisively bad defensive players.

To me, this series isn't about Cleveland not having additional weapons so much as it is about their alarming lack of two way players. Thompson was supposed to be the one guy other than LeBron who could give them something on that end and he has been run off the court. J.R. Smith has been spastic as usual, Shumpert can't buy one, Korver is purely uncomfortable to watch defensively, and Richard Jefferson just makes you sad. It's not that Cleveland is outgunned so much as it doesn't look like they have many players who even belong on the same court as the Warriors.

 

[intlzncster]

Durant is like a video game. I mean a guy his size should not be doing the things he can do.

 

[Rocktheworld]

 

[Dogdeacon]

And it can also be argued whether Cleveland has a real big three when two of them are decisively bad defensive players.

To me, this series isn't about Cleveland not having additional weapons so much as it is about their alarming lack of two way players. Thompson was supposed to be the one guy other than LeBron who could give them something on that end and he has been run off the court. J.R. Smith has been spastic as usual, Shumpert can't buy one, Korver is purely uncomfortable to watch defensively, and Richard Jefferson just makes you sad. It's not that Cleveland is outgunned so much as it doesn't look like they have many players who even belong on the same court as the Warriors.

True, yet it is simultaneously true that Cleveland annihilated a pretty good Raptors team, a well-coached competent Celtics and Paul George led Pacers. These are all at least decent NBA playoff teams. I guess the reason is Cleveland is so much better on offense than those teams that they could score with them or more throughout games and turn up the defense a few times for knockout punches. It would be really interesting to put Cleveland in the West and see how they'd fare vs healthy Clippers, Rockets or Spurs. I think they'd beat any one of those teams in the finals, but if they had to play 2 of them to get there they'd likely go down.

 

[Excalibur]

Hypothetical: if you're C's would you give up #1 and say Smart for Klay?

I think I would

Klay is buried on that team and probably wants to be the MAN somewhere

No. The question is not whether he wants to be the man, but whether he can be. Love his game, but he can't be the best player on a championship contender.