NBA Finals Thread

[Lefty2one]

In theory, there is no way that Cleveland could do this. The 73 win team from last year who lost in the final due to Green's suspension and Curry's lingering injury added Kevin Durant. Despite this fact, I clung to the hope that Cleveland would find a way to make this a series and maybe even pull it out. I then watched games 1 and 2. I now hope that Cleveland gets the series back to Golden State for Game 5. When the Warriors get it going, they are really fun to watch. Essentially Cleveland has had to pick its poison. They tried to stop the 3's in game 1 and Durant had a dunk exhibition. They tried to play straight up last night and there was a three point shooting exhibition. Durant is a HUGE match-up nightmare for them. The only guy who can really guard him is Lebron and you can't have him expend that type of energy on the defensive end when he has to be the offense.

Warriors in 5.

One of the biggest things that swung the 2016 Finals was CLE's decision to essentially ignore Harrison Barnes on the offensive end of the court. GSW replaced that massive liability by bringing in the best scorer in the NBA. CLE simply doesn't stand a chance. I think they'll still steal one game in CLE but agreed that this is ending in five.

At this point I think their only hope is to try to grind the pace to a halt and make it an ugly, half-court game. They'd still lose the series because their halfcourt execution isn't great and GSW is obviously a great defensive team but you can't try to run with GSW.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

I wish KD was still on OKC from my personal entertainment standpoint, but to hold animosity towards him for exercising a totally logical personal choice for better place, management, teammates and competitive chance does not make sense to me. The beef between KD & Russ can't be ignored nor can Westbrook going into full ballhog mode. To me this was a smart logical choice much like Ray Allen leaving the Celtics for the Heat or LeBron joining Heat and rejoining Cavs and the downside on competitive balance is the NBA's and fan's problem not KD's problem. We would have gotten better Western finals between the Warriors and OKC if Durant stayed and the finals likely between the Warriors and Cavs would have been more competitive, so I get the frustration - but the move to Golden State is and was so clearly the smarter move I cannot see hating on KD for it.

I never said that I agree with that sentiment.

I was replying to those who seem to think people hate the GSW organization for assembling this super team.

In my opinion, the animosity is towards KD as a player for "taking the easy road". And that's why people want them to lose.

 

[Blaneylover]

One of the biggest things that swung the 2016 Finals was CLE's decision to essentially ignore Harrison Barnes on the offensive end of the court. GSW replaced that massive liability by bringing in the best scorer in the NBA. CLE simply doesn't stand a chance. I think they'll still steal one game in CLE but agreed that this is ending in five.

At this point I think their only hope is to try to grind the pace to a halt and make it an ugly, half-court game. They'd still lose the series because their halfcourt execution isn't great and GSW is obviously a great defensive team but you can't try to run with GSW.

I agree. They have too much. They are a bad match-up for everyone, but they are a very bad match-up for Cleveland. The Cavs have to hope that the Warriors have a night when they just aren't hitting their usual amount of 3 pointers. Then...they may have a chance. If they are going to give up 130 points, they will not come close to winning a game.

 

[Horatio]

There's a huge difference between a big three and a big five ( four in their prime and under thirty) + some role players that could start on a bunch of teams.

 

[UChusky916]

Watching these finals, all I can do is think back to mid-year when the media and NBA fans KILLED Lebron for speaking publicly about wanting the Cavs to make some moves and get more talent before the trade deadline. It makes me laugh at how ridiculous those criticizing him were... just look at this series. Lebron saw this match-up coming and knew the talent disparity was obviously not in his team's favor.

Lebron, despite playing superhuman at times last night, can't will his team to victory when you look at GS's talent -- specifically their supporting cast's contributions compared to Cleveland's.

Lebron/Kyrie/Love cancel out Steph/Durant/Thompson. (even though Kyrie played poorly last night)

Compare the depth of the 2 teams beyond those top guys:

• GS has Draymond, Livingston, Clark (all put up double digit points last night) and throw in Iguodala too.
• CLE has Korver, Shumpert (1-6 last night), Thompson (only 4 reb last night) and JR Smith (0 pts last night). Richard Jefferson and Deron Williams (0-5, 0 pts last night) were being relied on for key minutes and they're WAYYYY too old to be playing in a finals against a high-tempo team like GS.

That's the game right there. GS has quality pieces outside of their top 3 guys, and they all can contribute. With CLE, it's a crap shoot.

For CLE to steal a game, their big 3 would have to be practically perfect, and they need bench guys to contribute a lot. Even then, they'd need one of GS big 3 to have a bad game. That may not even be enough.

GS just has too much talent. Curry can't be guarded behind the arc. Durant can't be guarded anywhere in inside the arc. And outside of their top 3, they still are getting meaningful contributions from talented guys.

 

[gtcam]

I think it was a good decision, but I also think it's a sign of weakness as a player. Put KD on the world's greatest team and they get better. Woop dee doo. Put LeBron on most any team in the league and they instantly contend for a title.

Almost seems like he's given up on being the best player of this generation with this move. I wasn't ready for kd to concede that just yet.

I think you are unfairly downplaying KD
KD wants to win and it shows in his facial and body language
He is playing on a "team" - GS is a bright spot in the "me me" mentality in the NBA

 

[FartMan69]

The hating is directed at kd not golden st

They're hating on Durant for taking the easy road and signing with the team that just beat him. Rather than try to make his team better and try to get it done. It's not like he was on a bum team. He left a team that made it to the conference finals.

Lebron left a team that had made it to the conference finals and was a #1 seed most years. He left to win a title he didn't think he could win in Cleveland at the time and was probably right. KD left a franchise that made it to the finals and then promptly traded away a future MVP candidate because they didn't want to pay him. Both left franchises that didn't always put winning first for one reason or another. Both went to franchises that would do that. Playing with Westbrook clearly wasn't in his best interests either. There is so much emphasis on winning a title these days that it's silly to see the backlash when a player takes a better path to get one.

 

[polycom]

Only in sports will you hate a guy for moving to best available company.

 

[tzznandrew]

Lebron left a team that had made it to the conference finals and was a #1 seed most years. He left to win a title he didn't think he could win in Cleveland at the time and was probably right. KD left a franchise that made it to the finals and then promptly traded away a future MVP candidate because they didn't want to pay him. Both left franchises that didn't always put winning first for one reason or another. Both went to franchises that would do that. Playing with Westbrook clearly wasn't in his best interests either. There is so much emphasis on winning a title these days that it's silly to see the backlash when a player takes a better path to get one.

Can I like this more than once?

The team LeBron left won the most games in the NBA that season, and he went to the 5-seed, with a Top 5 player, and brought along a 24-11 player who had playoff experience.

I think we can agree that Cavs team only won because of LeBron's brilliance, but they went into the playoffs 2009 and 2010 expected to make the Finals, and probably to win.

OKC blew it by getting rid of salary because they didn't want to go over a cap that went up a bazillion dollars right when they would have gotten the cap hit. They deserved this.

 

[Robertelamin]

I'm cool with the super teams. That is the new reality. But I really hope Cleveland can make this a decent series because I'd rather not have just 1 super team for the next few years.

 

[superjohn]

Whole bunch of hot takes in this thread. Durant is going to win 5 or 6 titles, people acting like the "super" team is a new thing, people acting like this series is already over (sweep) etc.

 

[bballgrda]

I don't think saying the series is over is a hot take.

 

[ivrytontusker]

Both left franchises that didn't always put winning first for one reason or another.

Except that OKC had a 3-1 lead on GS last year, and a 7 point lead with 5 minutes to play, and lost the series. The pre-2010 Cavs teams LeBron was on were never that good.

 

[Lefty2one]

Cleveland was absolutely 100% committed to winning during LeBron's first stint there. They may have made some bad moves but they were all about winning. What in the world makes someone say anything otherwise? If anything they were at fault for giving LeBron too much influence in front office moves.

Those Cleveland teams never gave him a real #2. Mo Williams, Jamison, an ancient Shaq, etc. The Celtics were the better team in 2009 if KG never got hurt. They bested CLE again in 2010 while healthy. LeBron left CLE because they had no assets and cap issues. They had no chance of winning a title if he stayed there.

Side note, as a Knicks fan, it's amazing that Celtics era only led to one title. Probably would have three-peated if it weren't for the injuries. They were the best team in 2009 when they lost KG and I still believe if Perkins was healthy for Game 7 in 2010 they would have beaten LA. As ridiculous as that sounds now but he did a great job boxing out and helping control the paint vs Gasol & Bynum.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think saying the series is over is a hot take.

Series can change on a dime. I get it, the Warriors look way better right now and look unbeatable but a series doesn't start until a team leaves home. Everyone was saying it was over last year when the Dubs were up 3-1.

 

[ivrytontusker]

Cavs records
2010: 61-21
2011: 19-63
2012: 21-45
2013: 24-58
2014: 33-49
2015: 53-29
2016: 57-25
2017: 51-31

Lebron left a team that lost 4-2 to a 50 win Celtics team in the semifinals. He joined a team that had won 33 games.

Durant left a team with a 3-1 lead in the conference finals (and a 7 point lead with 5 minutes left in Game 6). He joined a team that had won 73 games.

Comparing what they did is absurd.

 

[Robertelamin]

Whole bunch of hot takes in this thread. Durant is going to win 5 or 6 titles, people acting like the "super" team is a new thing, people acting like this series is already over (sweep) etc.

Welcome back superjohn. 5 or 6 might be crazy but 3 doesn't seem nuts if they can figure out the salaries and Durant said he might take less money to keep the core of the team.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Whole bunch of hot takes in this thread. Durant is going to win 5 or 6 titles, people acting like the "super" team is a new thing, people acting like this series is already over (sweep) etc.

I think that's right, I'd add that its exacerbated by Tyron Lue's terrible strategy of trying to run with the Warriors. Warriors likely would have won 2 slower paced games by 3-8pts and most of the outrage in this thread wouldn't exist.

What's weird is those that follow the NBA closely knew from the moment KD went to Golden State a Finals III was inevitable, yet the regular season was actually more entertaining than expected. The fact that almost the entire playoffs have been lousy is partially coincidence and certainly not entirely b/c KD is on GSW as that only impacted 2-3 series tops. The hot take nature of this also exacerbated by fact that KD's injury allowed the Warriors super-team-ness to kind of sneak up on all of us.

 

[champs99and04]

You can just stop after the first 2. Even if CP3 goes to the Spurs that's not tipping the scales in the west.

There's an argument to be made that the Spurs are better than Cleveland now, add CP3 to the mix and I think it's certain.

 

[champs99and04]

People are going to forget about this wimpy KD joining the super team talk when he retires with 5-6 rings and 3-4 Finals MVPs, pushing himself into top 5 talk.



Yea, especially those teams when his main running mate was Mo Williams and Boobie Gibson was getting crunch time minutes.

The genius of what KD did is that he's made a hypocrisy of the media. It can't be all about rings one minute and then we bring out the disclaimers when you win them. If players are taking less money to "chase rings" it's only because that's the climate we have created, so in a way I look at the talk show hosts belly-aching about the noncompetitive series and think they made their own bed.

 

[NielsisGood]

Watching these finals, all I can do is think back to mid-year when the media and NBA fans KILLED Lebron for speaking publicly about wanting the Cavs to make some moves and get more talent before the trade deadline. It makes me laugh at how ridiculous those criticizing him were... just look at this series. Lebron saw this match-up coming and knew the talent disparity was obviously not in his team's favor.

Lebron, despite playing superhuman at times last night, can't will his team to victory when you look at GS's talent -- specifically their supporting cast's contributions compared to Cleveland's.

Lebron/Kyrie/Love cancel out Steph/Durant/Thompson. (even though Kyrie played poorly last night)

Compare the depth of the 2 teams beyond those top guys:

• GS has Draymond, Livingston, Clark (all put up double digit points last night) and throw in Iguodala too.
• CLE has Korver, Shumpert (1-6 last night), Thompson (only 4 reb last night) and JR Smith (0 pts last night). Richard Jefferson and Deron Williams (0-5, 0 pts last night) were being relied on for key minutes and they're WAYYYY too old to be playing in a finals against a high-tempo team like GS.

That's the game right there. GS has quality pieces outside of their top 3 guys, and they all can contribute. With CLE, it's a crap shoot.

For CLE to steal a game, their big 3 would have to be practically perfect, and they need bench guys to contribute a lot. Even then, they'd need one of GS big 3 to have a bad game. That may not even be enough.

GS just has too much talent. Curry can't be guarded behind the arc. Durant can't be guarded anywhere in inside the arc. And outside of their top 3, they still are getting meaningful contributions from talented guys.

Draymond > Klay in terms of comparing "big 3"

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

So someone tell me how MJ would have "willed" his teams to beat these Warriors

He couldn't. But he definitely wouldn't be getting lit up on D like bron has.

Warriors are shooting 63% when being guarded by Lebron in the first 2 games.

GS is impossible to guard of course. But this series aside, I've always thought Lebron's d the past few years has been incredibly overrated. Similar to Kobe later in his career.

Lebron can still pick his spots and make incredible defensive plays (iggy block last year), but he does an awful lot of coasting/floating on the defensive end.

 

[Excalibur]

Draymond > Klay in terms of comparing "big 3"

The fact that there is an argument over this is exactly why the series appears to be a mismatch. Cleveland is playing with a big 3, GS with a big 4. Beyond that, the Warriors are far deeper.

 

[JSM1970]

No way

More that Popp is a much better coach than Lue and would try and exploit LA and Gasol, which he failed at ultimately too

Thompson, JR, Frye, Williams, Korver have been awful and Klay is locking down Kyrie

There's an argument to be made that the Spurs are better than Cleveland now, add CP3 to the mix and I think it's certain.

 

[NielsisGood]

Cavs records
2010: 61-21
2011: 19-63
2012: 21-45
2013: 24-58
2014: 33-49
2015: 53-29
2016: 57-25
2017: 51-31

Lebron left a team that lost 4-2 to a 50 win Celtics team in the semifinals. He joined a team that had won 33 games.

Durant left a team with a 3-1 lead in the conference finals (and a 7 point lead with 5 minutes left in Game 6). He joined a team that had won 73 games.

Comparing what they did is absurd.

Lebron left his team to join forces with a top 5 player in Wade and perennial all-star in Bosh, how is that not similar to what Durant did? The only difference is that Lebron helped to form his superteam and Durant joined an already-made superteam. At the end of the day, both guys left their teams for a better situation.

There's an argument to be made that the Spurs are better than Cleveland now, add CP3 to the mix and I think it's certain.

Don't think there's much of an argument for the Spurs unless they do get CP3. Without Paul I'm not sure what advantages you could argue the Spurs having other than coaching.