Muffet McGraw stepping down (merged threads)

[Mdoggie]

I said UConn would get SB and Paige before they announced but I also said Azzi would chose ND. Hope I’m wrong about Fudd. Hell she might chose a school like MD. So far I’m 1-1.

 

[Zanzman]

Toot toot

 

[Alydar]

With dueling threads on the Main board and the General board, here is my recap I posted on the general board for @Alydar and others to read here.
A unique confluence of events: transfers, injuries and early departure are the 3 culprits. To wit:
2015 Class-Ali Patberg #13 recruit, injured 2 years, transferred out. Star at Indiana
2016 Class-Erin Boley #5 recruit, transferred to Oregon after freshman year, solid role player
2016 Class-Jackie Young #11 recruit, left early for WNBA as #1 draft pick
2017 Class-Dani Patterson #30 recruit, transferred to Indiana, did not play in 2019-20
2017 Class-Mik Vaughn #56 recruit injured ACL two years in a row, first year playing significant minutes
2018 Class-Jordan Nixon #38 recruit transferred to Texas A&M, did not play in 2019-20
2018 Class-Abby Prohaska #73 recruit, during 2019-20 did not play due to blood clot.
That's your starters and depth, forced to rely on underclassman and transfers.

Looking down the list the only key player on that list was Young. Kind of like when Stevens and Tuck left UConn early. Maybe some of the others could have become key but that is just speculation.

Patberg, Patterson and Prohaska were never key players for the Irish. Or even just role players Assuming they would become starters is just that, an assumption, not a fact. Nixon & Boley transferred for reasons unknown. But it wasn't because they were happy at ND. Jackie Young leaving early wasn't that hard to anticipate. Especially when she saw the team she was going to return to this past season. IMO MM took a lot of chances bringing in transfers instead of developing young players. Several top teams are doing it more and more. it's college's version of "rent a player" we see in pro sports. It's been working for Baylor and S Carolina.

I agree that it was a lot of players. But to say that MM had no responsibility for a lot of it is homerism. She was earning 7 figures and at that level you are expected to plan better. A drop off after 5 starters leave? Expected. Going from back to back title games to not making the tournament is more than a "drop off", it's an extinction event. Reminds me of Tenn from 2008 to 2009.

 

[Fore!]

Niele Ivy is a strong recruiter, in my opinion, and loyal to Notre Dame. She is a good hire for them. I wonder what the new name for the "McGraw's Bench" bulletin board will be?

Poison Ivey

 

[CL82]

Anyone thinking Sam Brunelle might want to jump ship now and head to UCONN, given Coach McGraw is no longer there and she might not want to play for Coach Ivey?

No

Well maybe a little.

 

[Plebe]

Someone looks taken by surprise.

 

[Tonyc]

Transfers at ND were because they didnt play. Players come in as freshman and are told they have to learn the system. Then in their sophomore year they have learned the system and incoming freshman play over them and the coach plays 6 players in 30+ point blowouts. Why? You have a year or two of not good recruiting and you have players transfer and there you are with nothing, Now youve got to rebuild and start from scratch and recruit teach train and develop and that takes time. What is really unbeliveably amazing is Geno has maintained his top positon for so many years with out a blink

ND will take time to rebuild. Because its not all about recruiting it about player development and team development and keeping players on team, building chemistry continuity and a winning attitude. Geno has done it all and he has proven he can do it all. The drawback is when he retires he will need a couple of coaches who can replace what he has done. UConn will need coaches who can teach, coaches who can recruit, a coach who can run the team and develop his players. Understand Geno has all those qualities and no other coach in BB mens or womens has all those attributes.

 

[CL82]

Poison Ivey

McGraw's Gone?

 

[FridaFriend]

Tennessee and Notre Dame. The Holly and the Ivey.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Someone looks taken by surprise.

It seems that before the announcement MM and Neile should call each player together to share the news and reassure them. My next call would have gone to Azzi. A generational player deserves some love.

 

[CL82]

For those wondering about Brunelle's reaction.

Classy kid. It is really kind of her to post something like that right before she transfers.

 

[Alydar]

MM had bad luck with injuries, a few of her players transferred and the buck stops with the head coach. How does that equate to "selling out"?

Selling out means mortgaging the future to win now. In the 2018 season the ND freshmen looked at the return of the starters and the return of Turner and maybe they saw that they were going to spend another season as a low-minutes sub and made their decision to transfer.

And you are assuming that some of those injured were going to be contributors. That is just speculation.

Sure, it was a confluence of things, but CEO's get fired every year for less.

 

[oldude]

It seems that before the announcement MM and Neile should call each player together to share the news and reassure them. My next call would have gone to Azzi. A generational player deserves some love.

Evidently, from Tim Fudd’s tweet, we can assume that nobody from South Bend gave the Fudd household a heads up.

 

[BBallF]

WOW!!!!!!!

Not what I expected to read on the Boneyard today. MM was a tough coach and a worthy opponent for years. ND replaced Tennessee as the big time UConn opponent. Not going to speculate on why she has retired because enough already have.

As for Ivey, yes she was the principal recruiter for several years. She play for MM, then an assistant before she took the Memphis gig. Logical choice for ND to make. And kudos to ND for keeping it quiet until now. However, check the record of those who follow head coaches who are legends. Most don't succeed. Just reality.

As to success for Ivey, it's going to take at least 3 years for ND to return to the power house level. It may be longer and ND may go the route of Tennessee.

Yes I totally agree about coaches who follow legends. UCLA men, Indiana men, and Tennessee women, as prime examples. However, there are some schools that are so legendary in the sport itself that it doesn't matter like Kentucky and North Carolina men. They also had replacement coaches who were known top tier coaches in Calipari and Williams ( I could argue this point after watching him). This is different though at ND and it feels somewhere in the middle between never living up to MM and the school and basketball history becoming the draw for great players and teams. No matter where it falls, the recruiting curve is a real problem because you have to have the best HS players to have the best college teams. Geno has said that over and over again. In his words "Do you think I'm just smarter than everyone else?"

 

[Tonyc]

Its not all about recruiting its about player development and team development and keeping players on team, building chemistry continuity and building a winning attitude. Geno has done it all and he has proven he can do it all. Some coaches recruit all the top players they can and wait to see who steps up. Some coaches, are game coaches, some coaches are good recruiters, some coaches can develop players and put them in different positions but Geno can do it all and with Chris by his side they are a team within a team and they have built the greatest team in WCBB history. Why because every year they continue to maintain the top position in WCBB. They are always the team that measures how good other teams are. They are not a one year wonder or a 4 year wonder they do it and do it and do it and do it every season. The drawback is when he retires he will need a couple of coaches who can replace what he does because he does it all. He recruits, teaches, develops players, motivates players, builds consistency, continunity, winning attitudes, and has a tremendous desire to win which infects his players like the flu. When Geno retires UConn will need coaches not one but a few who can teach, train and develop their kids and coaches who can recruit, a coach who can run the team and develop his players. Understand Geno has all those qualities and no other coach in BB mens or womens has all those attributes. Make no mistake about it Geno and Chris are a team within a team. As great as Geno is he wouldnt be where he is without Chirs.

We're reading the Muffet thread and she accomplished alot. Lady Leprechan won 2 NC's among other great accomplishments and she had help from her coaches like Ivey who could recruit. We've seen Geno depend on nobody but himself and he got it done with alot of help from Chris and his asst coaches. But Geno has all the attributes in himself. We've seen other coaches win NC's but no one wins as consistency as Geno. He has beaten the best at their best. His attitude is contagious and it is instilled in his players and coaches or else he wouldnt continue to win year after year.

Many coaches aspire to make the FF. It is a given at UConn to win it all. The bar is set high and continues to get higher and when will it stop?????????

 

[Alydar]

It seems that before the announcement MM and Neile should call each player together to share the news and reassure them. My next call would have gone to Azzi. A generational player deserves some love.

I'm sure the team was informed before we were. And what is Ivey going to say to Fudd? "I left ND once already for money and an NBA job and if I were offered an NBA HC job I'm gone again, but I'd love to have you in S Bend in case it doesn't happen?
Who exactly would Azzi have as team mates at ND? This year's roster? The class of 2020? Is she willing to spend 2 years carrying what is now a third rate team?

 

[Tonyc]

I'm sure the team was informed before we were. And what is Ivey going to say to Fudd? "I left ND once already for money and an NBA job and if I were offered an NBA HC job I'm gone again, but I'd love to have you in S Bend in case it doesn't happen?
Who exactly would Azzi have as team mates at ND? This year's roster? The class of 2020? Is she willing to spend 2 years carrying what is now a third rate team?

I could be wrong but Azzi is a winner. She wants to win. There are only a couple of programs that she can help win and UConn is one of them. Azzi will need a team around her to showcase her skills. Azzi will need coaches who can develop her into a top knoch player and there is only one team that can do that. There are two types of players in the world. Those who think they can and those who think they cant and they cant without a team around them and without coaches who can teach train and develp them within a system that makes them the best they can be.

 

[cbraarj]

I was born and raised in Indiana for over 20 years, there aren't many greener pastures then there are in the Hoosier State.

Except Storrs the Capital of College Basketball!

 

[oldude]

I could be wrong but Azzi is a winner. She wants to win. There are only a couple of programs that she can help win and UConn is one of them. Azzi will need a team around her to showcase her skills. Azzi will need coaches who can develop her into a top knoch player and there is only one team that can do that. There are two types of players in the world. Those who think they can and those who think they cant and they cant without a team around them and without coaches who can teach train and develp them within a system that makes them the best they can be.

I think this is equally a concern for Azzi’s father, who clearly is very comfortable with his daughter going to UConn.

 

[CocoHusky]

Selling out means mortgaging the future to win now. In the 2018 season the ND freshmen looked at the return of the starters and the return of Turner and maybe they saw that they were going to spend another season as a low-minutes sub and made their decision to transfer.
And you are assuming that some of those injured were going to be contributors. That is just speculation.
Sure, it was a confluence of things, but CEO's get fired every year for less.

 

[DefenseBB]

What was she making in Memphis? I’m guessing $500K.

Well, Lindsey Gottlieb was making $637,500 at California when she left for the NBS, but then again she was probably not going to get renewed so taking whatever that Job offered might make sense. As an assistant at ND, she was probably making close to $200-300k so my guess is she had to leave for a pay bump and different job perspective to keep evolving her skills so maybe. Doing the Google search says assistant salaries for the NBA range from $100K to a $1 Mil depending on experience. I can't believe she would get the high end as an unproven coach but who knows. As I said, my guess for her new ND salary would be $750 which would be at the high end of a 1st year coach of a P5 school. That's what Kelli Harper is getting at Tenn and what Nikki McCray is getting at MSU and I am sure that have plenty of incentives included in that package to bump it based on success...

 

[hoopsfan22]

The problem for ND with respect to Fudd is that Fudd is going to major in basketball, and like other top recruits before her, going through the UConn gauntlet is at least partly a business decision. Going to UConn is the best next step to achieve her professional goals. She'll get the best development and training while playing alongside some of the world's best players in her age group. If you are Fudd, do you go to a program with a first time head coach, or the sure thing which churns out championships and pro players? Not saying ND doesn't have a shot at Fudd, but from her perspective that's probably taking on more risk than necessary.

 

[cbraarj]

That is precisely the main recruiting line popping up on McGraw's Bench.
However, Niele and the Fudd family have known each other for a very long time: remember, it was a very young Azzi who attended what we referred to as "Nielefest" or "Recruitapalooza" when several members of the Class of 2019, 2020 and 2021 came out to a group non-official visit that Niele organized.
(Some good things came out of that: Sam Brunelle, Anaya Peoples, Alli Campbell. Of course, Sydney Parris and Kylee Watson decided to go to Oregon at the time. )

If there's any recruit I think Niele will reacquaint herself with quickly it's point guard Oliva Miles. ND has a big need at that position and Niele -- having been a starting PG on a national championship team -- can cetainly talk the language of winning PG's. She both tough and fun, charismatic and driven.
Once again, Miles and Niele know each other from numerous Philly Belle games, I'm sure.

Stay tuned.

If Ivey organized it. It was a recruiting violation for a non-recruiting visit.

 

[DefenseBB]

NCAA head coach will get paid more than an NBA assistant. Nothing in particular to base this off of, but guessing she starts into the 500-900k rangs considering Kellie Harper made 500k at Missouri State and 750k at Tennessee. ND likely has deeper pockets than Tennessee but Niele isnt as proven without any HC experience.

Kelli made $246K in her final year at Mizzou State. She is making $750 at Tenn. She have a retention bonus if she stayed at MSU of $100k but that did not occur.

 

[msf22b]

There is always the possibility... that I have expounded upon at length for some years...I'm sure boring some to tears...

That Muffet relied on Ivy to the point that Niele was the real power behind the thrown and without her Muffet was shown to be limited in recruiting, game planning, and in-game management.

The admin, no dummies, came to the same conclusion; gave Muffet the shove and rehired Ivy who was lady-in-waiting in any case.

She'll do fine (by the way).

the only possible misgiving I have (to this bow-tied theory) is that
Niele needed Muffet as much as the other way around