Momentum

[YoungFree]

Did I miss when those schools were in a BCS league and went to the Fiesta Bowl.

If your point is people will support a winning FCS team here....

1. There isn’t really any evidence they would win at the FCS level

2. They wouldn’t draw 5k to FCS games

It would be a total and complete embarrassment.

Yes the point is that people support FCS teams...and how much of that Fiesta Bowl success do we still feel today?

1) There is evidence that we can't currently win at the FBS level...and from 1997-1999 UConn was 24-14 before going Independent. From 1980-1996 UConn was 95-89 so they have a winning record in the past at the FCS level. And since the 2000 season UConn is 15-5 against FCS opponents so there is some evidence that they can win at the FCS level.

2) Why do you feel we would only pull 5k to FCS games? Is that conjecture? Where is the data to support that? Even when we lose at the FBS level we pull 15-18,000...so you are either saying 1) UConn only has fair weather fans or 2) people don't like winning football programs regardless of level.

 

[UConnJim]

I guess this is what losing in football and men's basketball does to a fan base. WHEN UConn starts winning again, fans will come and revenues will increase. We can't change what has happened over the past few years, but I think we are better positioned for the future than we were 16 months ago.

When I hear people complain about the AAC for basketball, the main reason for the poor perception of the AAC has been the poor performance of UConn. UConn was supposed to be the basketball leader of the AAC and the last 2 years have been terrible. When UConn basketball is good again, the AAC will be thought of more highly. Heck, the AAC ended the season with more ranked teams than the Big East 3-2.

 

[YoungFree]

I think they have accepted FCS football as their ceiling.

Could you put attendance in context next time?

Washington Grizzly Stadium holds 25,200
Bridgeforth Stadium holds 25,000
The FargoDome holds 19,000

UConn was getting close to 40,000 not too long ago. When they were FCS, they were drawing about 14,000, max. Most of the time, far far less. I know. I was there.

I amend my previous question to: Could you put your argument in it's proper context next time?

Back when we drew 14,000 we had Memorial Stadium which was smaller. And drawing 19-25,000 people consistently is what UConn does right now in its much bigger stadium so I see that as perfect context to this dicussion. These schools draw the same numbers we currently get with winning programs at the lower level. And Washington Grizzly Stadium has some discussion of being expanded because they pack the stadium.

I am not sure how you cannot see that comparison in the crowd size?

 

[Exit 4]

Money we would save:

22 scholarships @ $60k per kid = $1.325 million

Coaches salary = about $1 million

Through in the reduced cost of travel to get to $3 million.

Now tell me how much money is going to be lost revenue wise on the following:

Ticket sales
Seat donations
Corporate sponsorships
TV revenue
Bowl money
AAC money

That’s just a start.

They are spending a lot of money to sell the product and selling at ever declining avg price per seat. The ticket sales company has to be costing them a big slice of that declining ticket sales revenue number. It wouldn't surprise me that at the current football tickets sales barely covers the cost of the ticket sale company fees, UConn's own ticket admin staff and all the effort they put into an FBS level game day experience. Corporate sponsorships? What could those possibly be worth - 500k in aggregate for football in the game day schedule and stadium signage? What TV revenue? AAC money? -well that is basically our TV money and what's that, $2 million a year + the NCAA bowl which is what another 500k?

Meanwhile, I think you have underestimate the staffing savings we would have under an FCS program. There is also less health/pension costs for the university.

But really, its not possible to pencil out the numbers on these programs because the schools purposefully distort the numbers to manage that conversation with their students, university board and state officials where applicable.

We can agree to disagree - but I see us dropping to FCS for a trial decade before dropping all together. And that day would be around 2030 if we can change things in the 2020 decade.

Mods - delete this thread if you want.

 

[whaler11]

Yes the point is that people support FCS teams...and how much of that Fiesta Bowl success do we still feel today?

1) There is evidence that we can't currently win at the FBS level...and from 1997-1999 UConn was 24-14 before going Independent. From 1980-1996 UConn was 95-89 so they have a winning record in the past at the FCS level. And since the 2000 season UConn is 15-5 against FCS opponents so there is some evidence that they can win at the FCS level.

2) Why do you feel we would only pull 5k to FCS games? Is that conjecture? Where is the data to support that? Even when we lose at the FBS level we pull 15-18,000...so you are either saying 1) UConn only has fair weather fans or 2) people don't like winning football programs regardless of level.

Based on your complete disconnect from reality - you have found a home.

Their record as an FBS team punching down is a hilarious touch. Thanks for that.

 

[YoungFree]

Based on your complete disconnect from reality - you have found a home.

Their record as an FBS team punching down is a hilarious touch. Thanks for that.

Don't need to get personal. Lol. It was a simple discussion amongst people who actually have bigger fish to fry then analyzing past stats and talking thoughts on future outcomes/positions of football teams.

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well this thread devolved quickly, and that's saying something since it began with a rant. I'll try to make my view of this simple.

1. Universities sponsoring major, expensive, televised athletics is dumb. It's a bad idea that should probably never have happened. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. But that's where we are now.

2. Because of the history, there is a lot of brand and marketing power associated with these programs, football most of all. There is also some prestige.

3. For the P5, the money makes it all worthwhile. For everybody else, it isn't financially astute and is borderline idiotic. But in the same way people out of college lease BMWs, colleges have expensive sports teams because they want to keep up with their competitors. Some, like the Ivies, have so much prestige, that they are immune. The way an "old money" rich person can drive a Camry or Tacoma.

4. A handful of non P5 have a legitimate possibility that they could become join the more elite club. UConn is one of them. Those schools will pay the financial penalty as long as they can, to keep that hope alive. As a result, UConn is not dropping to FCS.

So what the hell are we arguing about? Win games. Bring back fans by any means necessary. Get the Rent to 80% capacity and go to bowls, and our future looks better. It's all about increasing the odds of a P5 invite while making the AAC a place we can at least survive.

 

[BlueDogs]

If you think Crocker is an incompetent tool, I hope he’s kept in the DC spot for life.

the stats tell you all you need to know.

 

[Exit 4]

Don't need to get personal. Lol. It was a simple discussion amongst people who actually have bigger fish to fry then analyzing past stats and talking thoughts on future outcomes/positions of football teams.

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

Welcome to the Boneyard. Whaler will belittle your post and you personally by the third round of any "discussion." Its a lock and part of his shtick that everyone here is a dolt but Jimmy. That said, I still would like him to do a pregame or postgame radio show for football. I think his rants would be a hoot and he could have fun belittling the Boneyard.

 

[huskysupporter]

This thread is pretty bad. Oof.

 

[YoungFree]

This thread is pretty bad. Oof.

But it got us talking about football at least...

 

[Husky25]

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

Which is exactly what you did vis a vie crowd size.

 

[Confident Carl]

Honestly, I thought there was some good vibes and buzz at the spring game. It’s was a very healthy showing and core interest remains strong.

As much as I put a fair share of this debacle on Suzie Lax, the Rock Star and their predecessors, at present there is not much that can be done other than grind it out and hope RE 2.0 can get it back on track.

What I don’t like already in RE 2.0 and AD Dave dynamics is the loss Lashley (a very talented OC and Grimes a great OL coach) and the retention of Crocker, an utterly incompetent tool. It violates good management principles - clean out underperformers quickly and retain your best talent. AD Dave can’t allow RE 2.0. to get away with another version of PP and GDL. Active oversight and management is required.

In RE I trust...mostly

Coaching and recruiting go hand in hand but regardless of who is coaching, recruiting must improve. In the last 5 years UCONN'S average 247 recruiting rank was 102.6.
2018 was the worst at 104. In the five years prior it was an avg. score of 75.6.
In 2017 UCONN ranked dead last in 247's AAC composite rankings.
They need to Master recruiting. Maybe we should recruit some Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models as assistant football coaches.

 

[YoungFree]

Which is exactly what you did vis a vie crowd size.

I know. I'm just saying there is data that can support a move to FCS and so far I haven't seen anyone give data to support the stance of it not working.

Coaching and recruiting go hand in hand but regardless of who is coaching, recruiting must improve. In the last 5 years UCONN'S average 247 recruiting rank was 102.6.
2018 was the worst at 104. In the five years prior it was an avg. score of 75.6.
In 2017 UCONN ranked dead last in 247's AAC composite rankings.
They need to Master recruiting. Maybe we should recruit some Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models as assistant football coaches.

BOOM #TruthBomb

 

[Purple Stein]

LOL yes an FCS program will games at the Rent.

Why would you even want an FCS team? It would borderline criminal to sink money into this during these budget cycles with rising tuition costs. Look at the link medic posted. It’s criminal for state schools to be doing this. They are not only stupid they are insane.

The most recent direct comparison data I could quickly find showed that, in 2011, Maine had a football budget of 3.5 million and operated at a loss of @900k.

The same year (the Fiesta Bowl year) UConn had football expenses of 17 million and was reportedly 1.6 million in the black.

Not sure how things stack up in 2018, but there are other ancillary benefits (branding, future positioning) that favor staying in FBS even at a loss. Penny wise/pound foolish to drop a level, IMHO.

 

[Husky25]

Back when we drew 14,000 we had Memorial Stadium which was smaller. And drawing 19-25,000 people consistently is what UConn does right now in its much bigger stadium so I see that as perfect context to this dicussion. These schools draw the same numbers we currently get with winning programs at the lower level. And Washington Grizzly Stadium has some discussion of being expanded because they pack the stadium.

I am not sure how you cannot see that comparison in the crowd size?

25,000 is not a ceiling for UConn. UConn was drawing close to 40,000 not too long ago. I shouldn't have to repeat myself. People should read and (more importantly) comprehend with better frequency. It's as if the worst qualities of the Cesspool are bleeding into the sports boards, but alas...

You used occupancy percentage to illustrate a positive for those FCS programs to mask the fact that their stadiums don't hold very many fans in comparison.

I know. I'm just saying there is data that can support a move to FCS and so far I haven't seen anyone give data to support the stance of it not working.


BOOM #TruthBomb

Actually @whaler11 did just that. Revenues would drop to virtually nothing, while costs would only drop by the amount to cover 17 scholarships (roughly $800,400) and the difference in coaching salaries. All other costs would remain.

 

[Exit 4]

The most recent direct comparison data I could quickly find showed that, in 2011, Maine had a football budget of 3.5 million and operated at a loss of @900k.

The same year (the Fiesta Bowl year) UConn had football expenses of 17 million and was reportedly 1.6 million in the black.

Not sure how things stack up in 2018, but there are other ancillary benefits (branding, future positioning) that favor staying in FBS even at a loss. Penny wise/pound foolish to drop a level, IMHO.

For the record, I believe in staying in the AAC until the end of the current ACC media deal which is what - through the early 2030s? I'm not a fan of dropping football for the NBE or dropping football down a level to FCS w/NBE for all other sports. We can win in AAC with the right coaching. It all starts with Hurley and Edsall, but more so on Hurley to get the positive mojo. If we had to choose between FCS football or no football, I go FCS. No football feels like a full neutering and it is.

 

[YoungFree]

25,000 is not a ceiling for UConn. UConn was drawing close to 40,000 not too long ago. I shouldn't have to repeat myself. People should read and (more importantly) comprehend with better frequency. It's as if the worst qualities of the Cesspool are bleeding into the sports boards, but alas...

You used occupancy percentage to illustrate a positive for those FCS programs to mask the fact that their stadiums don't hold very many fans in comparison.



Actually @whaler11 did just that. Revenues would drop to virtually nothing, while costs would only drop by the amount to cover 17 scholarships (roughly $800,400) and the difference in coaching salaries. All other costs would remain.

I wasn't talking about how much we CAN put into the stadium as the comparison but how much we DO put into the stadium over the past three years. All I was getting at was that we put the same number of butts in seats as winning FCS programs so if we have a winning FCS program and only put 20-25000 in the seats in a 40,000 seat stadium we can't say it is an embarrasement.

 

[huskymedic]

I wasn't talking about how much we CAN put into the stadium as the comparison but how much we DO put into the stadium over the past three years.

You realize those attendance numbers are greatly inflated in comparison to the actual butts in the seats/building during the game...

 

[YoungFree]

And as far as making money, here is a little bit of other data on most profitable college sports:

#88: University of Montana Football (FCS) $3.47million
#100: UConn BASKETBALL $2.25 million
#120: Montana State University Football (FCS) $1.43million
#123: The Citadel Football (FCS) $1.27million
#128: Valdosta State Football $991K
#131: Stony Brook LACROSSE $951K
#132: UConn Football $891K
#133: Southern Utah Football $851K
#138: Furman Football $790K
#140: Murray State Football $764K

One can look at this data and say that we are making more money than most FCS football teams so it supports the stance that we would make more money at the FBS level but one could also say that there 4 FCS programs that currently DO make more money than us at the FCS level so it is possible that UConn can still make some money playing at the FCS level. Arguably, not as much as they COULD make if the team played better or had a different conference affiliation but this thread was discussing that if that didn't happen, the school would rather drop football altogether then have and FCS team....which I am not thinking would be the case.

But in my short time here in the boneyard I've realized that outside perspectives and thoughts are generally not met well. I'm ok with that though.

 

[YoungFree]

So if we moved to the ACC we could make more money but taking a look at more data you will see that the ACC doesn't boast the strongest numbers compared to the other conferences but I will bow to the point that they do make more than what AAC schools do.

#24: Georgia Tech $26.2million
#28: NC State $20.3million
#38: VA Tech $17.2million
#40: Louisville $17.1million
#41: UNC $17.0million
#45: Syracuse $14.9million
#47: FSU $13.2million
#51: Clemson $11.2million
#52: Pittsburgh $11.2million
#59: Duke $8.3million
#60: Virginia $7.5million
#61: Miami $5.7million
#62: Boston College $5.6million
#65: University of Montana (FCS) $3.4million
#66: Wake Forest $3.3million
#67: UCF $3.1million
#76: Montana State University (FCS) $1.4million
#77: The Citadel (FCS) $1.2million
#78: Valdosta State (FCS) $991K
#79: UConn $891K

We aren't going to get to the numbers the top 8 pull...i mean FSU and Clemson didn't make much...but then again they have expensive coaches. I do agree we could make more money in the ACC.

 

[huskymedic]

So if we moved to the ACC we could make more money but taking a look at more data you will see that the ACC doesn't boast the strongest numbers compared to the other conferences but I will bow to the point that they do make more than what AAC schools do.

#24: Georgia Tech $26.2million
#28: NC State $20.3million
#38: VA Tech $17.2million
#40: Louisville $17.1million
#41: UNC $17.0million
#45: Syracuse $14.9million
#47: FSU $13.2million
#51: Clemson $11.2million
#52: Pittsburgh $11.2million
#59: Duke $8.3million
#60: Virginia $7.5million
#61: Miami $5.7million
#62: Boston College $5.6million
#65: University of Montana (FCS) $3.4million
#66: Wake Forest $3.3million
#67: UCF $3.1million
#76: Montana State University (FCS) $1.4million
#77: The Citadel (FCS) $1.2million
#78: Valdosta State (FCS) $991K
#79: UConn $891K

We aren't going to get to the numbers the top 8 pull...i mean FSU and Clemson didn't make much...but then again they have expensive coaches. I do agree we could make more money in the ACC.

Data source/link?

 

[YoungFree]

Data source/link?

Rankings | Most profitable college sports programs | Sports | Football

They also break it down by cost per athlete as well. You can search by sports, conference, etc.

 

[JMick]

There's nothing else to do in Montana. People don't show up for FBS football games. They're not showing up for FCS games. Total waste of not just money but resources as well.

 

[Husky25]

I wasn't talking about how much we CAN put into the stadium as the comparison but how much we DO put into the stadium over the past three years. All I was getting at was that we put the same number of butts in seats as winning FCS programs so if we have a winning FCS program and only put 20-25000 in the seats in a 40,000 seat stadium we can't say it is an embarrasement.

As I said above, the three programs you mentioned, as successful as their recent history may be, probably consider FCS to be their ceiling. UConn has been to the near pinnacle of FBS. True it was not as recent as 2015, but it was ancient history either. To go back only that far is disingenuous at best.

For UConn to retreat back to FCS, when they have already proven they can succeed at a higher level, when other programs within their conference have proven it can be done, especially when the team is profitable and contributes cost-offset for programs that do not generate revenue (if your post above is to be believed) would be tantamount to putting their tail between their legs.

Any textbook definition of, "with (one's) tail between (one's) legs," includes the display of embarrassment. We absolutely can say it, because that is exactly what it would be.