Momentum

[YoungFree]

What revenue? Best I can tell the revenue we generate now barely covers the cost to open the Rent. And we already get very little TV revenue.

We are not going to drop football all together unless we can do it under the cover that our surrounding state universities are doing the same. When Albany, Stony Brook, Buffalo, URI, NH and Maine cut football then we will have cover to cut it too, otherwise we aren't going to blaze that path.

Even with all our history as a football program? Wouldn't that be like saying Rutgers will cut their program? Rutgers started playing in 1869.

Looking at your list above:

Maine: 1892
NH: 1893
URI: 1895
UConn: 1896
Buffalo: 1899
Stony Brook: 1969
Albany: 1973

Some other New England/New York Schools:

Columbia: 1870
Harvard: 1873
Brown: 1878
UMass: 1879
Dartmouth: 1881
Fordham: 1881
Cornell: 1887
Colgate: 1890
Holy Cross: 1891
Boston College: 1893

I feel if Stony Brook and Albany drop their programs it won't be as big a hit as the others on your list. Once those other schools or some of the other New England/New York schools do it, then I say doomsday is getting closer. Wouldn't it be better to pack a stadium for winning FCS team then have an empty stadium for a losing FBS team?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Yes - all criminally insane: With respect to the state budget, CCSU will lose their team before we lose our team.

List of NCAA Division I FCS football programs - Wikipedia

Your position is basically, because there are over 100 schools being stupid, that we should be stupid too. And until some of our neighbors wise up, we shouldn’t wise up until they do.

If we drop from FBS it’s a financial move. We are not going to drop a level to dig a deeper hole. It’s basic math. We also have a basketball program we are trying to protect. If we dropped from FBS we’d be out of the AAC and join the NBE. Why on earth would we want a CAA program as a financial albatross? There’d be justified outrage.

 

[Pudge]

First ... UConn Athletic Department is NOT just Football and Men's Basketball. The Jimmy Carter Malaise exhibited by some is because these years have been tough in those two bell cow sports. The Overall AD is genuinely in good shape. But we were in the Jeff Hathaway Zzzzz years. We hire Program coaches and let them develop to compete for championships. That was true of Calhoun and Auriemma; but also Stevens and Ray Reid (?). Jim Penders. Mike Cavanaugh. Randy Edsall is proven - in my mind. It is tough this term because the new conference does not provide the buzz for State of Connecticut fans as the Big East slant of Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, WVU, BC. But, some of the things Edsall is doing this time informs me that he is actually a better HC than the previous years.

Second ... Michael Hogan was a very mediocre administrator. The Susan Herbst years, in contrast, has been one of significant University growth and excellence. The athletic department is merely one important component of a campus (series of campuses) that needed energetic leadership and change. To judge Susan Herbst (or David Benedict) on conference status ignores that our path was largely set in 2002-2003, long before they arrived. Beat out Louisville>? Only if the collective political structure was willing to bankrupt the City, County and State (further) with a YUM type deal; which I suspect is rivaled by their PapaJohns Stadium deal. The University, in the realm it operates, does not have the juice to push through stupidity. I do not see the New Big East as a hugely beneficial option. I think we are in FBS Football for the long haul given a $200-300m investment. And the marketing, given the poor field performance since 2010 (hmmm) is pushing a rock up a hill thus far.

The reason I don't like to engage in the debate is the above answer doesn't really ever change. Nothing about this moment in time gives more momentum than Danny Hurley and Randy Edsall - solid two gets and contracts given the circumstances. And, yet, I do bring up the history: We sucked before John Toner edged us into the Dave Gavitt discussion; we have a glorious rise since. And there will be great days again.

 

[Exit 4]

Your position is basically, because there are over 100 schools being stupid, that we should be stupid too. And until some of our neighbors wise up, we shouldn’t wise up until they do.

If we drop from FBS it’s a financial move. We are not going to drop a level to dig a deeper hole. It’s basic math. We also have a basketball program we are trying to protect. If we dropped from FBS we’d be out of the AAC and join the NBE. Why on earth would we want a CAA program as a financial albatross? There’d be justified outrage.

Yes - you have summed it up. But we are not really in the right position to judge the financial hole. I'm not convinced that our football deficit in 2016, 2017 and 2018 isnt already rather massive and would be less massive so to speak in an FCS setting.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Yes - you have summed it up. But we are not really in the right position to judge the financial hole. I'm not convinced that our football deficit in 2016, 2017 and 2018 isnt already rather massive and would be less massive so to speak in an FCS setting.

Money we would save:

22 scholarships @ $60k per kid = $1.325 million

Coaches salary = about $1 million

Through in the reduced cost of travel to get to $3 million.

Now tell me how much money is going to be lost revenue wise on the following:

Ticket sales
Seat donations
Corporate sponsorships
TV revenue
Bowl money
AAC money

That’s just a start.

 

[Excalibur]

Dropping to FCS doesn't save any money. It is a big financial loser with no chance to break even or make profit.

There is a saying on the Appalachian Trail, "never make a decision when you are walking uphill." Making a decision about the football program when it is at it nadir would be similar. Any change in the football program needs to balance its potential and peripheral effects on the university. Getting a couple of years past Diaco before doing anything would be a rational move.

Perhaps. But at some point you have to make a call as to whether something can be fixed or not. I'm not saying we're there yet, but that decision point exists.

 

[UCFBfan]

Well this thread definitely started some positive momentum on this board....nothing talking about dropping football to spark some interest

 

[YoungFree]

Why would anyone even want FCS football?

At least if they drop it they have additional resources to throw at basketball and hockey.

FCS would be an absolute embarrassment.

Do you think the following schools look at FCS football as an embarrasement?

Montana - 2 national championships (7 appearances), 18 conference championships, 23 playoff appearances, 93.33% avg attendance in 2017, 100.6% in 2016, 95.72% in 2015
James Madison - 2 national championships, 7 conference championships, 14 playoff apperances, 87.32% avg attendance in 2017, 79.76% in 2016
North Dakota State - 6 national championships, 9 conference championships, 8 playoff apperances, 96.48% avg attendance in 2017, 97.66% in 2016, 97.35% in 2015

Comparison:
UConn - 0 national championships, 2 conference championships, 6 bowl games, 50.04% avg attendance in 2017, 65.94% in 2016, 70.53% in 2015

Here is an article about the financial woes of UMass' move to FBS: Football is forever: The money-losing drug these schools can't quit

 

[whaler11]

Do you think the following schools look at FCS football as an embarrasement?

Montana - 2 national championships (7 appearances), 18 conference championships, 23 playoff appearances, 93.33% avg attendance in 2017, 100.6% in 2016, 95.72% in 2015
James Madison - 2 national championships, 7 conference championships, 14 playoff apperances, 87.32% avg attendance in 2017, 79.76% in 2016
North Dakota State - 6 national championships, 9 conference championships, 8 playoff apperances, 96.48% avg attendance in 2017, 97.66% in 2016, 97.35% in 2015

Comparison:
UConn - 0 national championships, 2 conference championships, 6 bowl games, 50.04% avg attendance in 2017, 65.94% in 2016, 70.53% in 2015

Here is an article about the financial woes of UMass' move to FBS: Football is forever: The money-losing drug these schools can't quit

Did I miss when those schools were in a BCS league and went to the Fiesta Bowl.

If your point is people will support a winning FCS team here....

1. There isn’t really any evidence they would win at the FCS level

2. They wouldn’t draw 5k to FCS games

It would be a total and complete embarrassment.

 

[Husky25]

Do you think the following schools look at FCS football as an embarrasement?

Montana - 2 national championships (7 appearances), 18 conference championships, 23 playoff appearances, 93.33% avg attendance in 2017, 100.6% in 2016, 95.72% in 2015
James Madison - 2 national championships, 7 conference championships, 14 playoff apperances, 87.32% avg attendance in 2017, 79.76% in 2016
North Dakota State - 6 national championships, 9 conference championships, 8 playoff apperances, 96.48% avg attendance in 2017, 97.66% in 2016, 97.35% in 2015

Comparison:
UConn - 0 national championships, 2 conference championships, 6 bowl games, 50.04% avg attendance in 2017, 65.94% in 2016, 70.53% in 2015

Here is an article about the financial woes of UMass' move to FBS: Football is forever: The money-losing drug these schools can't quit

I think they have accepted FCS football as their ceiling.

Could you put attendance in context next time?

Washington Grizzly Stadium holds 25,200
Bridgeforth Stadium holds 25,000
The FargoDome holds 19,000

UConn was getting close to 40,000 not too long ago. When they were FCS, they were drawing about 14,000, max. Most of the time, far far less. I know. I was there.

I amend my previous question to: Could you put your argument in it's proper context next time?

 

[YoungFree]

Did I miss when those schools were in a BCS league and went to the Fiesta Bowl.

If your point is people will support a winning FCS team here....

1. There isn’t really any evidence they would win at the FCS level

2. They wouldn’t draw 5k to FCS games

It would be a total and complete embarrassment.

Yes the point is that people support FCS teams...and how much of that Fiesta Bowl success do we still feel today?

1) There is evidence that we can't currently win at the FBS level...and from 1997-1999 UConn was 24-14 before going Independent. From 1980-1996 UConn was 95-89 so they have a winning record in the past at the FCS level. And since the 2000 season UConn is 15-5 against FCS opponents so there is some evidence that they can win at the FCS level.

2) Why do you feel we would only pull 5k to FCS games? Is that conjecture? Where is the data to support that? Even when we lose at the FBS level we pull 15-18,000...so you are either saying 1) UConn only has fair weather fans or 2) people don't like winning football programs regardless of level.

 

[UConnJim]

I guess this is what losing in football and men's basketball does to a fan base. WHEN UConn starts winning again, fans will come and revenues will increase. We can't change what has happened over the past few years, but I think we are better positioned for the future than we were 16 months ago.

When I hear people complain about the AAC for basketball, the main reason for the poor perception of the AAC has been the poor performance of UConn. UConn was supposed to be the basketball leader of the AAC and the last 2 years have been terrible. When UConn basketball is good again, the AAC will be thought of more highly. Heck, the AAC ended the season with more ranked teams than the Big East 3-2.

 

[YoungFree]

I think they have accepted FCS football as their ceiling.

Could you put attendance in context next time?

Washington Grizzly Stadium holds 25,200
Bridgeforth Stadium holds 25,000
The FargoDome holds 19,000

UConn was getting close to 40,000 not too long ago. When they were FCS, they were drawing about 14,000, max. Most of the time, far far less. I know. I was there.

I amend my previous question to: Could you put your argument in it's proper context next time?

Back when we drew 14,000 we had Memorial Stadium which was smaller. And drawing 19-25,000 people consistently is what UConn does right now in its much bigger stadium so I see that as perfect context to this dicussion. These schools draw the same numbers we currently get with winning programs at the lower level. And Washington Grizzly Stadium has some discussion of being expanded because they pack the stadium.

I am not sure how you cannot see that comparison in the crowd size?

 

[Exit 4]

Money we would save:

22 scholarships @ $60k per kid = $1.325 million

Coaches salary = about $1 million

Through in the reduced cost of travel to get to $3 million.

Now tell me how much money is going to be lost revenue wise on the following:

Ticket sales
Seat donations
Corporate sponsorships
TV revenue
Bowl money
AAC money

That’s just a start.

They are spending a lot of money to sell the product and selling at ever declining avg price per seat. The ticket sales company has to be costing them a big slice of that declining ticket sales revenue number. It wouldn't surprise me that at the current football tickets sales barely covers the cost of the ticket sale company fees, UConn's own ticket admin staff and all the effort they put into an FBS level game day experience. Corporate sponsorships? What could those possibly be worth - 500k in aggregate for football in the game day schedule and stadium signage? What TV revenue? AAC money? -well that is basically our TV money and what's that, $2 million a year + the NCAA bowl which is what another 500k?

Meanwhile, I think you have underestimate the staffing savings we would have under an FCS program. There is also less health/pension costs for the university.

But really, its not possible to pencil out the numbers on these programs because the schools purposefully distort the numbers to manage that conversation with their students, university board and state officials where applicable.

We can agree to disagree - but I see us dropping to FCS for a trial decade before dropping all together. And that day would be around 2030 if we can change things in the 2020 decade.

Mods - delete this thread if you want.

 

[whaler11]

Yes the point is that people support FCS teams...and how much of that Fiesta Bowl success do we still feel today?

1) There is evidence that we can't currently win at the FBS level...and from 1997-1999 UConn was 24-14 before going Independent. From 1980-1996 UConn was 95-89 so they have a winning record in the past at the FCS level. And since the 2000 season UConn is 15-5 against FCS opponents so there is some evidence that they can win at the FCS level.

2) Why do you feel we would only pull 5k to FCS games? Is that conjecture? Where is the data to support that? Even when we lose at the FBS level we pull 15-18,000...so you are either saying 1) UConn only has fair weather fans or 2) people don't like winning football programs regardless of level.

Based on your complete disconnect from reality - you have found a home.

Their record as an FBS team punching down is a hilarious touch. Thanks for that.

 

[YoungFree]

Based on your complete disconnect from reality - you have found a home.

Their record as an FBS team punching down is a hilarious touch. Thanks for that.

Don't need to get personal. Lol. It was a simple discussion amongst people who actually have bigger fish to fry then analyzing past stats and talking thoughts on future outcomes/positions of football teams.

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well this thread devolved quickly, and that's saying something since it began with a rant. I'll try to make my view of this simple.

1. Universities sponsoring major, expensive, televised athletics is dumb. It's a bad idea that should probably never have happened. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. But that's where we are now.

2. Because of the history, there is a lot of brand and marketing power associated with these programs, football most of all. There is also some prestige.

3. For the P5, the money makes it all worthwhile. For everybody else, it isn't financially astute and is borderline idiotic. But in the same way people out of college lease BMWs, colleges have expensive sports teams because they want to keep up with their competitors. Some, like the Ivies, have so much prestige, that they are immune. The way an "old money" rich person can drive a Camry or Tacoma.

4. A handful of non P5 have a legitimate possibility that they could become join the more elite club. UConn is one of them. Those schools will pay the financial penalty as long as they can, to keep that hope alive. As a result, UConn is not dropping to FCS.

So what the hell are we arguing about? Win games. Bring back fans by any means necessary. Get the Rent to 80% capacity and go to bowls, and our future looks better. It's all about increasing the odds of a P5 invite while making the AAC a place we can at least survive.

 

[BlueDogs]

If you think Crocker is an incompetent tool, I hope he’s kept in the DC spot for life.

the stats tell you all you need to know.

 

[Exit 4]

Don't need to get personal. Lol. It was a simple discussion amongst people who actually have bigger fish to fry then analyzing past stats and talking thoughts on future outcomes/positions of football teams.

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

Welcome to the Boneyard. Whaler will belittle your post and you personally by the third round of any "discussion." Its a lock and part of his shtick that everyone here is a dolt but Jimmy. That said, I still would like him to do a pregame or postgame radio show for football. I think his rants would be a hoot and he could have fun belittling the Boneyard.

 

[huskysupporter]

This thread is pretty bad. Oof.

 

[YoungFree]

This thread is pretty bad. Oof.

But it got us talking about football at least...

 

[Husky25]

And hey, I was just showing there is data...that's the great thing about data...you can spin it in 10,000 different ways.

Which is exactly what you did vis a vie crowd size.

 

[Confident Carl]

Honestly, I thought there was some good vibes and buzz at the spring game. It’s was a very healthy showing and core interest remains strong.

As much as I put a fair share of this debacle on Suzie Lax, the Rock Star and their predecessors, at present there is not much that can be done other than grind it out and hope RE 2.0 can get it back on track.

What I don’t like already in RE 2.0 and AD Dave dynamics is the loss Lashley (a very talented OC and Grimes a great OL coach) and the retention of Crocker, an utterly incompetent tool. It violates good management principles - clean out underperformers quickly and retain your best talent. AD Dave can’t allow RE 2.0. to get away with another version of PP and GDL. Active oversight and management is required.

In RE I trust...mostly

Coaching and recruiting go hand in hand but regardless of who is coaching, recruiting must improve. In the last 5 years UCONN'S average 247 recruiting rank was 102.6.
2018 was the worst at 104. In the five years prior it was an avg. score of 75.6.
In 2017 UCONN ranked dead last in 247's AAC composite rankings.
They need to Master recruiting. Maybe we should recruit some Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models as assistant football coaches.

 

[YoungFree]

Which is exactly what you did vis a vie crowd size.

I know. I'm just saying there is data that can support a move to FCS and so far I haven't seen anyone give data to support the stance of it not working.

Coaching and recruiting go hand in hand but regardless of who is coaching, recruiting must improve. In the last 5 years UCONN'S average 247 recruiting rank was 102.6.
2018 was the worst at 104. In the five years prior it was an avg. score of 75.6.
In 2017 UCONN ranked dead last in 247's AAC composite rankings.
They need to Master recruiting. Maybe we should recruit some Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models as assistant football coaches.

BOOM #TruthBomb

 

[Purple Stein]

LOL yes an FCS program will games at the Rent.

Why would you even want an FCS team? It would borderline criminal to sink money into this during these budget cycles with rising tuition costs. Look at the link medic posted. It’s criminal for state schools to be doing this. They are not only stupid they are insane.

The most recent direct comparison data I could quickly find showed that, in 2011, Maine had a football budget of 3.5 million and operated at a loss of @900k.

The same year (the Fiesta Bowl year) UConn had football expenses of 17 million and was reportedly 1.6 million in the black.

Not sure how things stack up in 2018, but there are other ancillary benefits (branding, future positioning) that favor staying in FBS even at a loss. Penny wise/pound foolish to drop a level, IMHO.

 

[Husky25]

Back when we drew 14,000 we had Memorial Stadium which was smaller. And drawing 19-25,000 people consistently is what UConn does right now in its much bigger stadium so I see that as perfect context to this dicussion. These schools draw the same numbers we currently get with winning programs at the lower level. And Washington Grizzly Stadium has some discussion of being expanded because they pack the stadium.

I am not sure how you cannot see that comparison in the crowd size?

25,000 is not a ceiling for UConn. UConn was drawing close to 40,000 not too long ago. I shouldn't have to repeat myself. People should read and (more importantly) comprehend with better frequency. It's as if the worst qualities of the Cesspool are bleeding into the sports boards, but alas...

You used occupancy percentage to illustrate a positive for those FCS programs to mask the fact that their stadiums don't hold very many fans in comparison.

I know. I'm just saying there is data that can support a move to FCS and so far I haven't seen anyone give data to support the stance of it not working.


BOOM #TruthBomb

Actually @whaler11 did just that. Revenues would drop to virtually nothing, while costs would only drop by the amount to cover 17 scholarships (roughly $800,400) and the difference in coaching salaries. All other costs would remain.

 

[Exit 4]

The most recent direct comparison data I could quickly find showed that, in 2011, Maine had a football budget of 3.5 million and operated at a loss of @900k.

The same year (the Fiesta Bowl year) UConn had football expenses of 17 million and was reportedly 1.6 million in the black.

Not sure how things stack up in 2018, but there are other ancillary benefits (branding, future positioning) that favor staying in FBS even at a loss. Penny wise/pound foolish to drop a level, IMHO.

For the record, I believe in staying in the AAC until the end of the current ACC media deal which is what - through the early 2030s? I'm not a fan of dropping football for the NBE or dropping football down a level to FCS w/NBE for all other sports. We can win in AAC with the right coaching. It all starts with Hurley and Edsall, but more so on Hurley to get the positive mojo. If we had to choose between FCS football or no football, I go FCS. No football feels like a full neutering and it is.

 

[YoungFree]

25,000 is not a ceiling for UConn. UConn was drawing close to 40,000 not too long ago. I shouldn't have to repeat myself. People should read and (more importantly) comprehend with better frequency. It's as if the worst qualities of the Cesspool are bleeding into the sports boards, but alas...

You used occupancy percentage to illustrate a positive for those FCS programs to mask the fact that their stadiums don't hold very many fans in comparison.



Actually @whaler11 did just that. Revenues would drop to virtually nothing, while costs would only drop by the amount to cover 17 scholarships (roughly $800,400) and the difference in coaching salaries. All other costs would remain.

I wasn't talking about how much we CAN put into the stadium as the comparison but how much we DO put into the stadium over the past three years. All I was getting at was that we put the same number of butts in seats as winning FCS programs so if we have a winning FCS program and only put 20-25000 in the seats in a 40,000 seat stadium we can't say it is an embarrasement.

 

[huskymedic]

I wasn't talking about how much we CAN put into the stadium as the comparison but how much we DO put into the stadium over the past three years.

You realize those attendance numbers are greatly inflated in comparison to the actual butts in the seats/building during the game...

 

[YoungFree]

And as far as making money, here is a little bit of other data on most profitable college sports:

#88: University of Montana Football (FCS) $3.47million
#100: UConn BASKETBALL $2.25 million
#120: Montana State University Football (FCS) $1.43million
#123: The Citadel Football (FCS) $1.27million
#128: Valdosta State Football $991K
#131: Stony Brook LACROSSE $951K
#132: UConn Football $891K
#133: Southern Utah Football $851K
#138: Furman Football $790K
#140: Murray State Football $764K

One can look at this data and say that we are making more money than most FCS football teams so it supports the stance that we would make more money at the FBS level but one could also say that there 4 FCS programs that currently DO make more money than us at the FCS level so it is possible that UConn can still make some money playing at the FCS level. Arguably, not as much as they COULD make if the team played better or had a different conference affiliation but this thread was discussing that if that didn't happen, the school would rather drop football altogether then have and FCS team....which I am not thinking would be the case.

But in my short time here in the boneyard I've realized that outside perspectives and thoughts are generally not met well. I'm ok with that though.