Memphis AD on the new BE TV deal

[Carl Spackler]

Let's keep this simple for a sec - look at florida and texas.

FSU and Florida are playing Sat. One at home, one on the road. Miami is in the ACC and playign thurs night on ESPN.

FSU and Florida are in the 3:30 time slots and 8:00PM EST, for their respective networks. Prime time.

UCF is at home v. Temple, and USF on the road @ Houston. (for example)

UCF plays i.e. Temple at 12:00 pm EST @ home. No conflict in Florida.

USF plays @ Houston...game time is 7:00 CST. Texas and A&M have already played at 2:30 CSt and TCU played the big 12 game at noon CST. Houston is primetime saturday night in their home region with no conflict in TExas. (8:00 pm EST)

All of the big east games are being advertised on the same network backbone, just regionally.

So when the game schedules go up on the screen to be advertised. If you live in TExas - you see the game that is local to you listed at the top, and the other games that are available in other regions of the country at the same time listed underneath. Just like the NFL.

ESPN can't do it, which is why they've never made a play for NFL conference broadcasting like the major networks.

ESPN would need cable carriers to list several more channels than they already have on their basic cable lineup card......

to do a nationwide broadcast of football games all occuring on the same day starting at noon EST and ending at 12:00am EST. yet still be able to focus regionally.

But what I'm talking about makes no sense if all you know when it comes to sports broadcasting - is ESPN.

 

[Carl Spackler]

What ESPN does have though, is the cyberspace angle, they can't offer what an NBC, or CBS, or Fox could offer nationally in traditional television broadcasting. But they might be able to do it in cyberspace. I'm curious to see how it plays in, I"m nowhere near knowledgeable to being to speculate on that.

 

[whaler11]

Actually my first job out of college was at ESPN, but it was 15 years ago and I got out of TV immediately after. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a plant by the folks in Providence, your opinion of them is strikingly ridiculous.

Don't worry, I understand your regional plan - you keep saying this is what the NFL does. This is nothing like what the NFL does. The NFL uses 5 different outlets (NBC, CBS, ESPN, FOX, NFLN) and except for a few exceptions (Opening week, Thanksgiving week) none of them broadcasts more than 2 games in a week and in most weeks only 1 of the 5 broadcasts in multiple time slots.

I will agree with you on one thing - I think a lot of this sucks. NBC sucks. Being in a football league with Temple, Houston, SMU and San Diego State sucks beyond belief. Being in a league with Memphis is ridiculous to the point of being completely absurd.

It's great to sit and fantasize about a scheme like this. You continue to ignore the most important thing. There aren't any compelling matchups. Zero. The games suck. At a school like Houston, their own alumni care more about a half dozen other schools than their own. Temple students don't go to games as a badge of honor. Memphis. Where does one even begin with Memphis.

 

[whaler11]

Let's keep this simple for a sec - look at florida and texas.

FSU and Florida are playing Sat. One at home, one on the road. Miami is in the ACC and playign thurs night on ESPN.

FSU and Florida are in the 3:30 time slots and 8:00PM EST, for their respective networks. Prime time.

UCF is at home v. Temple, and USF on the road @ Houston. (for example)

UCF plays i.e. Temple at 12:00 pm EST @ home. No conflict in Florida.

USF plays @ Houston...game time is 7:00 CST. Texas and A&M have already played at 2:30 CSt and TCU played the big 12 game at noon CST. Houston is primetime saturday night in their home region with no conflict in TExas. (8:00 pm EST)

All of the big east games are being advertised on the same network backbone, just regionally.

So when the game schedules go up on the screen to be advertised. If you live in TExas - you see the game that is local to you listed at the top, and the other games that are available in other regions of the country at the same time listed underneath. Just like the NFL.

ESPN can't do it, which is why they've never made a play for NFL conference broadcasting like the major networks.

ESPN would need cable carriers to list several more channels than they already have on their basic cable lineup card......

to do a nationwide broadcast of football games all occuring on the same day starting at noon EST and ending at 12:00am EST. yet still be able to focus regionally.

But what I'm talking about makes no sense if all you know when it comes to sports broadcasting - is ESPN.

All well and good. Who else plays at noon and is on TV in Florida? The 12:00 SEC game. At least 2 Big 10 games. At least one ACC game. So you missed Florida and Florida State. Did you miss Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Clemson, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, USC and Oregon?

Yeah, no conflict in Florida. Temple/UCF versus the SEC, ACC, & Big 10. You can't TV your way around a quality problem.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

All well and good. Who else plays at noon and is on TV in Florida? The 12:00 SEC game. At least 2 Big 10 games. At least one ACC game. So you missed Florida and Florida State. Did you miss Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Clemson, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, USC and Oregon?

Yeah, no conflict in Florida. Temple/UCF versus the SEC, ACC, & Big 10. You can't TV your way around a quality problem.

If the Big East is on ESPN in that situation, it is buried on ESPN3 and only carried locally.

You can TV your way around a quality program. Look at the beginnings of the Big East in the late 70's and early 80's. How many Final Fours had Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Pitt, BCU, Syracuse, UConn, Seton Hall and Providence been in during the 10 years leading up to the conference's formation? Villanova (1971), Providence (1973) and Syracuse (1975), and Providence was considered a monumental upset to get that far. In the 10 years after the conference's formation, 6 of the 9 original (within 2 years of formation) members had made 8 Final Fours, and BCU just missed, and a league team played in 5 of the next 10 national championships.

Exposure begets exposure. Getting picked up as the game of the week for NBC would be TREMENDOUS for the league in every way imaginable.

 

[metsfan2323]

At a school like Houston, their own alumni care more about a half dozen other schools than their own..

This is only true in your alternate, self loathing universe. In the real world Houston alumni love their Cougars. Your rants carry about as much weight in here as Alumni69's rants do in the "cess pool".

On the football field Houston, SMU > Cuse, Pitt.

 

[CTMike]

Carl <-------> Reality <-------> Whaler

But that's no fun. haha

 

[mattp]

Uh, it's Ohio State not Iowa State, sorry I mistyped it the second time. Still think Boise State/Houston is a better TV draw? The best Big East matchup is Boise State and Louisville. Can anyone keep a straight face and claim that is a better game than Wisconsin and Ohio State?

Oh SMU is 'committed to making a comeback'. That's great, who is bankrolling it?

you make it as though Wisconsin and Ohio State play each other every week, when in reality they don't even play each other every year. obviously the marquee BIG10, 12 and SEC games will outdraw our "marquee" match-ups but you don't have to win the ratings battle every week. i would definitely tune in to Louisville/Cinci over Iowa State/Kansas or Iowa/Minnesota and so would a lot of fans. we might not have any match-ups that challenge FL/UGA or Auburn/Bama, but most SEC, Big10 and PAC12 match-ups don't equal them either.

 

[Marty Jackson]

need to add Depaul which doesn't help...
And, if we go to an all-sport setup, you'll need one more BB only in the west. Anybody know of any Catholic BB only schools out west? Gonzaga would be great, but geographically they'd still be an outlier.

 

[Marty Jackson]

you make it as though Wisconsin and Ohio State play each other every week, when in reality they don't even play each other every year. obviously the marquee BIG10, 12 and SEC games will outdraw our "marquee" match-ups but you don't have to win the ratings battle every week. i would definitely tune in to Louisville/Cinci over Iowa State/Kansas or Iowa/Minnesota and so would a lot of fans. we might not have any match-ups that challenge FL/UGA or Auburn/Bama, but most SEC, Big10 and PAC12 match-ups don't equal them either.

a #8 Boise playing a #5 UofL would generate a lot of eyeballs. Sure, the other leagues have their key matchups, but any Top 10 or 15 matchup between conference mates is a big game and would generate national attention. Just so happens the teams mentioned above have been competing for a NC the past 5-10 years or so.

 

[Marty Jackson]

It's a cold reality that in 2012 and for the near future, ESPN controls the national discourse on sports. If they aren't talking about you - then no one is talking about you. Their idiotic afternoon talk shows have 3 times more viewers than anything on NBCS. Do you think the kids you are going to try to recruit are watching NBCS - or do they want to play on ESPN?

Are people here saying they would watch SDSU/SMU over Michigan/Iowa or South Carolina/Auburn? If even the biggest fans of Big East schools won't make that choice, why is anyone else in the country going to?

Could be wrong, but I don't think recruits really talk about who's broadcasting the games. or which network owns the conference rights.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It is turning out that the conferences that will thrive, the SEC, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 12, were able to diversify their exposure to a single network, while the Big East which went all in with ESPN, is in trouble, and the whispers about the ACC, also 100% ESPN, are turning into shouts. Customer concentration is a huge business risk, whether you make widgets or are a football conference.

 

[whaler11]

If the basis of anyone's argument is that SMU and Houston are better conference mates in football than Syracuse and Pittsburgh then we can stop.

SMU has been pathetically bad for decades. They won 8 games in an awful league twice in three years. How are they better than Pittsburgh?

If Houston and SMU are so attractive why was there no interest in them until the Big East was down to six members?

There is a reason why Memphis, UCF, SMU and Houston were in a league that was getting 2 million dollars a year in TV money. Nobody watches their games. Why does that change? Because they are on a different marginal television network? Because they play UConn and Rutgers?

Why are people in Florida going to watch UCF all of a sudden? They are a distant 5th in their own state much closer to FIU than FSU.

It's the hometown buffet of conferences. Lets make up in quantity what we don't have in quality. There are a total of 3 teams in the league who are the #1 draws in their own geography.

Trying to draw a parallel between sports programming in 1980 versus 2012 is absurd. There is nothing in common between ESPN as a startup and NBCS as a startup other than they both have an initial in their name that stands for sports.

 

[mavblues]

If the basis of anyone's argument is that SMU and Houston are better conference mates in football than Syracuse and Pittsburgh then we can stop.

SMU has been pathetically bad for decades. They won 8 games in an awful league twice in three years. How are they better than Pittsburgh?

If Houston and SMU are so attractive why was there no interest in them until the Big East was down to six members?

There is a reason why Memphis, UCF, SMU and Houston were in a league that was getting 2 million dollars a year in TV money. Nobody watches their games. Why does that change? Because they are on a different marginal television network? Because they play UConn and Rutgers?

Why are people in Florida going to watch UCF all of a sudden? They are a distant 5th in their own state much closer to FIU than FSU.

It's the hometown buffet of conferences. Lets make up in quantity what we don't have in quality. There are a total of 3 teams in the league who are the #1 draws in their own geography.

Trying to draw a parallel between sports programming in 1980 versus 2012 is absurd. There is nothing in common between ESPN as a startup and NBCS as a startup other than they both have an initial in their name that stands for sports.

OMFG - enough is enough.

There's nothing in common between ESPN as a startup and NBCS as a startup? Really?

How about the fact that they both needed CONTENT when they started.

I am very surprised that someone who's first job out of college was with ESPN conveniently forgets the fact that the network routinely featured Australian Rules football and slow pitch softball when it started out.

Are you arguing that the NBE doesn't provide better content than Aussie Rules football and slow pitch softball?

You seem hell bent on comparing the NBE with the other major conferences. This argument is inherently flawed, because the NBE doesn't have to outdraw these conferences. NBCS can't sign these other conferences - they're locked up already.

So, the argument becomes this: NBCS needs content, and they need a lot of it. Is NBCS better served securing the NBE as a way to secure lots of content and build up its college football and basketball presence (to be expanded later as other conferences become available), or is NBCS better served keeping costs down by marketing fishing shows and demolition derbies to niche audiences?

I don't claim to know the answer to that question, but I'm damned sure that NBCS does, and I sure as hell believe that Paul Tagliabue does.

 

[whaler11]

It is turning out that the conferences that will thrive, the SEC, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 12, were able to diversify their exposure to a single network, while the Big East which went all in with ESPN, is in trouble, and the whispers about the ACC, also 100% ESPN, are turning into shouts. Customer concentration is a huge business risk, whether you make widgets or are a football conference.

The reason the Big East is in trouble is because VPI, Miami, Boston College, West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse and TCU all believed their interests were better served partnering with different universities. Louisville, UConn and Rutgers would all set themselves on fire for the same opportunity.

The sole reason that their interests were better served was because they were partnering with schools who have larger fan bases. So unless you believe that the reason why Big East schools over the years have smaller fanbases than other conferences is because they put all their games on ESPN then it didn't really matter.

The ACC is in a similar situation for the exact same reason. It just took longer because their fanbases were marginally better than the Big East's and therefore they got to be a predator until others decided they wanted to be predator.

 

[whaler11]

OMFG - enough is enough.

There's nothing in common between ESPN as a startup and NBCS as a startup? Really?

How about the fact that they both needed CONTENT when they started.

I am very surprised that someone who's first job out of college was with ESPN conveniently forgets the fact that the network routinely featured Australian Rules football and slow pitch softball when it started out.

Are you arguing that the NBE doesn't provide better content than Aussie Rules football and slow pitch softball?

You seem hell bent on comparing the NBE with the other major conferences. This argument is inherently flawed, because the NBE doesn't have to outdraw these conferences. NBCS can't sign these other conferences - they're locked up already.

So, the argument becomes this: NBCS needs content, and they need a lot of it. Is NBCS better served securing the NBE as a way to secure lots of content and build up its college football and basketball presence (to be expanded later as other conferences become available), or is NBCS better served keeping costs down by marketing fishing shows and demolition derbies to niche audiences?

I don't claim to know the answer to that question, but I'm damned sure that NBCS does, and I sure as hell believe that Paul Tagliabue does.

Its different for the simple reason that all the attractive properties are locked up. ESPN as it grew did not have to compete with themselves. They were creating something that didn't exist, they weren't trying to compete with something that already dominates the landscape.

Yeah ESPN had terrible programming at first. To get where they are now they had MLB, NHL, NBA, NASCAR, NFL, every major college sports league, the Masters, grand slam tennis, MLS, the World Cup and did things like turn the NFL draft into a 3 day ratings bonanza.

If you've ever looked at the ratings and noticed that on Thursday nights which NBC owned for decades they now are outrated by Pawn Stars on cable you might not be so confident in their abilities.

 

[CL82]

Do you know what it would take for that statement to be true? I have seen some arguments on my short time in the Boneyard that would make his post look like Gospel! The stupidest argument in the history of the Boneyard would sound something like this, "The Sun will not rise tomorrow because my cat has gray hair and Dominos Pizza took over a half hour to deliver." Yes, that is indeed the stupidest argument in the history of the Boneyard.....because I don't have a cat....

Um, no. I'm going with "So do you think that I should paid $900 for a love potion."

 

[CL82]

Could be wrong, but I don't think recruits really talk about who's broadcasting the games. or which network owns the conference rights.

Probably not, but the do know if and when a potential school is on television and they certainly think that it would be pretty cool to be on the field during those games.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Actually my first job out of college was at ESPN, but it was 15 years ago and I got out of TV immediately after. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a plant by the folks in Providence, your opinion of them is strikingly ridiculous.

Don't worry, I understand your regional plan - you keep saying this is what the NFL does. This is nothing like what the NFL does. The NFL uses 5 different outlets (NBC, CBS, ESPN, FOX, NFLN) and except for a few exceptions (Opening week, Thanksgiving week) none of them broadcasts more than 2 games in a week and in most weeks only 1 of the 5 broadcasts in multiple time slots.

I will agree with you on one thing - I think a lot of this sucks. NBC sucks. Being in a football league with Temple, Houston, SMU and San Diego State sucks beyond belief. Being in a league with Memphis is ridiculous to the point of being completely absurd.

It's great to sit and fantasize about a scheme like this. You continue to ignore the most important thing. There aren't any compelling matchups. Zero. The games suck. At a school like Houston, their own alumni care more about a half dozen other schools than their own. Temple students don't go to games as a badge of honor. Memphis. Where does one even begin with Memphis.

From the UConn BOT vote to officially upgrade football to 1-A in October 1997 until Vice Admiral Miller voiced his support of the Big East conferenceand clearly outlined how and why the big east is to be the first conference affiliation of the storied tradition of Navy Football - during all fo that time I've wanted out of the Big East conference, becuase Providence leadership was upside down with their priorities, and I wasn't really sure it was fixed - until the Naval Academy came on board. I don't think I can ever be in the same room with Mike Tranghese. I'd have to be restrained from decking him I think.

I've said all along, in all of my rantings, that a Big East conference, that has it's priorities straight around the importance of football over basketball when it comes to stability in the intercollegiate landscape - is where I want to be, and if they don't have their priorities straight - I want out. THe big east leadership didn't make the big east basketball conference what it has become by accident - they know what they're doing when it comes to athletics.

As for the NFL, well you comments tell me that I"m discussing this with an amateur.

ESPN is a monster of company in sports broadcasting that has a very fundamental problem in it's business structure, well two of them. The first is the conflict of interest thing in reporting news on the same thing they are investing in. The second is that the business model is set up basically, in the shotgun approach to hitting a target.

(i.e. you want to hit a wider area, you use a bigger shotgun pellet spread.........for ESPN - that means adding more channels to broadcast sports. It started with ESPN2....and they've never changed their approach. College sports - push ESPNU. ESPN Classic. ESPN news......etc. etc.

What they repeatedly run into - and UConn was a pawn in it for awhile - was having to force television router/providers to carry more and more channels on their basic packages.

(i.e. if uconn football was to be on TV in CT........you either had to upgrade your basic television service to a higher price package to get the additional espn channels.....and so on.

Same problem all over the country for ESPN, and it's the reason they've never been able to make a play for the NFL. The NFL has worked for 40+ years in broadcasting, such that when you've got a schedule of say a dozen games happening simultaneouslyacross the country, the fans local to a region where their local team is from, watch the local team, and they're all watchign the same channel on TV - but different events.

It's an entirely different structure to reach coast to coast than what ESPN has. For ESPN to broadcast 12 football games in a single day and reach all the local audiences, they'd need 12 ESPN channels on the basic services coast to coast to handle it, or need to start moving games to different days.

If anyone in CT is not a NYG, NYJ, or NEPats fan - and don't pay to have the direct TV service package, you know exactly what I'm talking about. When the Gmen are on, and you want to watch the niners at the same time, you're getting the giants game.

The big east, coast to coast right now, with the right broadcasting structure / framework to schedule and broadcast.....has the potential to go the sniper single shot single kill into every region/market were in the country right now, and do it on the same day - college football saturday.

As noted elsewhere. THe Big east doesn't need to be the top viewership draw / presence in every market from day 1. THe big east just needs to be on TV, and easily accessible, and advertised in the markets - as many as possible - at the same time.

ESPN is going to have to change their entire structure to handle something like that - and if they ever do - they will get the NFL. I just don't see how it's possible at this time to do it.

 

[whaler11]

ESPN does regional broadcasts on Saturday nights though. ABC shows regional games and they do reverse mirrors on ESPN and ESPN2. So people watching ESPN and ESPN2 in different parts of the country are watching different games. It was annoying when they couldn't do HD on the different broadcasts but I thought they fixed that last year.

Wouldn't most people prefer multiple stations and choosing the game they watch anyway instead of having the network pick it for them? That is why the NFL cleans up on the DTV deal.

 

[Carl Spackler]

ESPN does regional broadcasts on Saturday nights though. ABC shows regional games and they do reverse mirrors on ESPN and ESPN2. So people watching ESPN and ESPN2 in different parts of the country are watching different games. It was annoying when they couldn't do HD on the different broadcasts but I thought they fixed that last year.

Wouldn't most people prefer multiple stations and choosing the game they watch anyway instead of having the network pick it for them? That is why the NFL cleans up on the DTV deal.

You're so frigging clueless. You can't watch you're local teams on the Direct TV package - you have to turn into the network broadcasts for the NFL game if it's in your local region. Direct TV' success with the NFL is direct product of the success of the regional market approach around national broadcasts that the NFL has taken. By the NFL generating new fans of teams all over the country since 1969, they've generated the market that will pay for broadcasting of teams that aren't local.

You're an energy sucker. I won't let you suck my energy anymore.

FOr those that care about the future of UConn, and the future of the big east - how many people know that the the athletic departments at the Naval Academy and at Southern Methodist cared enough about their football competition, to create a trophy for the winner of the game which was first awarded in 2009?

Yeah - but nobody is going to care when SMU plays Navy in football. or when SMU plays UConn..........

 

[gioff23]

Being in a football league with Temple, Houston, SMU and San Diego State sucks beyond belief. Being in a league with Memphis is ridiculous to the point of being completely absurd.

It's great to sit and fantasize about a scheme like this. You continue to ignore the most important thing. There aren't any compelling matchups. Zero. The games suck. At a school like Houston, their own alumni care more about a half dozen other schools than their own. Temple students don't go to games as a badge of honor. Memphis. Where does one even begin with Memphis.

How many BE FB fans said the same thing when the BE had the gumption to add frigging UConn to play football. What legacy did the Huskies bring? Who bankrolled their commitment?

You sound mad because Swofford didn't invite you to the prom, and instead picked that pimply faced orange hair girled from upstate NY. Does a matchup of the 2008 Temple Owls-SMU Mustangs garner eyeballs? No, but that's not the question - the question is whether the 2013 versions can. I firmly believe the NBE will compete w/the ACC and B12 (and outside Oregon and USC, the P12). If you win, folks will follow you. If you live in the past then Oregon can never put out a good team.

BTW, SMU beat Pitt just a few months ago, in this universe

 

[whaler11]

You're so frigging clueless. You can't watch you're local teams on the Direct TV package - you have to turn into the network broadcasts for the NFL game if it's in your local region. Direct TV' success with the NFL is direct product of the success of the regional market approach around national broadcasts that the NFL has taken. By the NFL generating new fans of teams all over the country since 1969, they've generated the market that will pay for broadcasting of teams that aren't local.

You're an energy sucker. I won't let you suck my energy anymore.

FOr those that care about the future of UConn, and the future of the big east - how many people know that the the athletic departments at the Naval Academy and at Southern Methodist cared enough about their football competition, to create a trophy for the winner of the game which was first awarded in 2009?

Yeah - but nobody is going to care when SMU plays Navy in football. or when SMU plays UConn..........

I know that you think you are the only one that understands anything but don't worry I understand the NFL deal.

And no nobody will care when Navy plays SMU. Nobody cares when SMU plays anyone. They might care enough to make a trophy but that doesn't mean anyone else does. The WNBA has a trophy I imagine, they care about it too I'm sure - good for them.

SMU beat Pitt they are a way better program. App st is better than Michigan. UConn is better than South Carolina and Notre Dame. Baylor is better than Texas. That logic holds up well. Who won a meaningless bowl game when Pitt hired a clown like Todd Graham. Let's ignore decades of futility - they went 8-5 in a terrible conference.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I know that you think you are the only one that understands anything but don't worry I understand the NFL deal.

And no nobody will care when Navy plays SMU. Nobody cares when SMU plays anyone. They might care enough to make a trophy but that doesn't mean anyone else does. The WNBA has a trophy I imagine, they care about it too I'm sure - good for them.

SMU beat Pitt they are a way better program. App st is better than Michigan. UConn is better than South Carolina and Notre Dame. Baylor is better than Texas. That logic holds up well. Who won a meaningless bowl game when Pitt hired a clown like Todd Graham. Let's ignore decades of futility - they went 8-5 in a terrible conference.

You are just being a jackass now. SMU is going to be a better team than Pitt 5 years from now. They are in a better metro area and have a very good coach. They have an alumni base that is willing to pay up to support the program. Pitt is in a death spiral, and joining the ACC is not going to help them.

 

[whaler11]

You are just being a jackass now. SMU is going to be a better team than Pitt 5 years from now. They are in a better metro area and have a very good coach. They have an alumni base that is willing to pay up to support the program. Pitt is in a death spiral, and joining the ACC is not going to help them.

Ok. If you say so. June Jones is 60. Somehow SMU sucked for decades in spite of their location.

Why don't you guys stop the personal attacks for two seconds and answer these questions.

If the latest Big East is so good and these teams are upgrades and this television strategy is so brilliant...

Why didn't the Big East invite SMU, Houston, Boise and SDSU before Pitt and Syracuse left? If they are so savvy and now have an NFL style holy grail why were they reactive and not proactive? Why did West Virginia set fire to the league to get out? Why would Rutgers, UConn and Louisville campaign so hard for an invite elsewhere?

Ill hang up and wait for your response that will never come.