May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II

[hoopsnloops32]

Players pay attention to streaks. So do teammates.
With under 10 seconds left in the Chicago-Atlanta game, it looked like the Sky would win 76-69 and Angel Reese, who had 13 rebounds, only had 9 points and was resigned to get the team W but see her streak of double-doubles end.

But.....Sky teammate Marina Mabrey blocked an Atlanta shot and quickly -- and very deliberately -- passed it to Reese, who was fouled with 6.4 seconds left. Reese got a friendly roll on the first attempt to complete the double-double. Streak continues.

Sky were off a bit, but got contributions from Michaela Onyenwere, Dana Evans and Isabelle Harrison.

No Rhyne Howard (again). If they guys can make a replacement call, you've got to wonder just how close to the wire the 3x3 committee is going to wait before making a "should she stay or should she go" decision on Howard.

They said she was out until after the Olympic break.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'm gonna need someone to explain to me how Caitlin had 5 steals and 3 blocks today. Seems like a lot of defensive statistics for a player who allegedly plays no defense at all.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Ogunbowale had 13 assists today?! Wow.

 

[GoChips20]

Ogunbowale had 13 assists today?! Wow.

Her efficiency is a problem (and at this point probably will be throughout her career) but she has markedly improved as a facilitator and defender.

 

[GoChips20]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

I would take Brink Aaliyah over Angel if I were a GM but I still think she’s a better a candidate for ROY. I don’t see why long term potential should matter in ROY voting.

Right now my vote would go to Angel but I expect Caitlin to put up some better performances the second half the season and steal it from her.

Angel has far less talent around her. While the double double record is impressive, it’s really her intangibles that impress me the most. She’s already the leader of that team and does so many things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Just very impressive.

 

[GirlBoo1020]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

I'd have to go with Angel right now. Clark fills up the stat sheet for sure but Angel's making history and the better two way player right now. Really close though, will be interested in what it looks like in September.

 

[JellyBean]

A'ja had a very casual 24 point, 20 rebound game today.

A'ja asserting herself for league MVP

 

[donalddoowop]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

Blocking and stealing the ball? How good has she been in keeping the player she guards from driving past her or keeping her from doing what she wants to do? Those are the better measuring sticks for judging good defense.

 

[cancontent]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

Reese's game does suit Chicago as the team is redefining itself, however the idea that no other team would want her is perplexing. Sure there are areas to improve, but her energy and ability to rebound would be something several teams would want. Picture her playing with a line up like the Sun has. That front court is tough as it is and would be even tougher.

Second, considering the rookie class why is it surprising that it's competitive? Jackson has played well on a struggling LA squad and who knows how Brink would have performed had she not suffered her ACL? The presumption that ROY was going to be Clark without question never made sense to me. The favourite to win? Sure, but that opinion felt shortsighted considering who was drafted this season.

 

[Dillon77]

They said she was out until after the Olympic break.

Thanks for the status on Rhyne Howard.
Now for the Questions:

• Who is "They?" The Dream? The U.S.A. Selection Committee?
• Is she out of playing in the WNBA and/or The Olympics?
• And, if the latter (as well), which player did the Committee select to take her place on 3x3?

(Geez -- and if this happened -- I know I've been watching more soccer and tennis than usual, but how I'd miss this? )*

* Although I was just on the U.S.A. Basketball site and the last news they've posted is of Dearica Hamby joining the team.

 

[azfan]

Her efficiency is a problem (and at this point probably will be throughout her career) but she has markedly improved as a facilitator and defender.

To no real end against the million dollar coach and the Merc as Dallas gave up 100 points.

Surprising they could only muster 84 against what can only be charitably described as an absent Phoenix defense.

It's hard to take the Wing seriously and certainly BG and the Mer didn't as the big girl from Baylor flushed two threes. Not certain what type of scheme would favor Griner outside the line considering how pathetic Phoenix is in the paint.

If Phoenix could routinely play the Wing the million dollar coach would certainly look good. The improvement..... Against the worst team in the league.. May 25th the Wing in shooting 50% from the field and three went into the valley of the dumpster fire and put 107 on the Merc. Now that awesome Phoenix offense did score 92 so there does appear to be significant improvement over the last 7 weeks. As long as the Merc can stay home and play Dallas.

Ann Drysdale and her partner who shall remain nameless crowed how strong the Mer looked. I wonder if Drysdale attended the U of A to work on her broadcasting skills.

 

[azfan]

Reese's game does suit Chicago as the team is redefining itself, however the idea that no other team would want her is perplexing. Sure there are areas to improve, but her energy and ability to rebound would be something several teams would want. Picture her playing with a line up like the Sun has. That front court is tough as it is and would be even tougher.

Second, considering the rookie class why is it surprising that it's competitive? Jackson has played well on a struggling LA squad and who knows how Brink would have performed had she not suffered her ACL? The presumption that ROY was going to be Clark without question never made sense to me. The favourite to win? Sure, but that opinion felt shortsighted considering who was drafted this season.

This is been a tremendous rookie class to watch. I'm hard-pressed to think of another class that had individuals who could step in and perform at such an elite level. As you mentioned there's depth to this rookie class and in addition to those you mentioned Cardosa has certainly impressed.

The WNBA league pass uses Chicago's announcers when they're home and they're announcer the the guy is really entertaining. He regularly mentions the Cardosa has the best resting face he's ever seen. Since he said that I've noticed that she really does have a natural smile and she wears that bad boy all the time.

As we approach the Olympic break I would guess there's a consensus that Clark and Reese are 1A and 1B.

I'd have Cardosa 2, slightly above Jackson although you could argue they are 2A and 2B. Sheldon has also had flashes although her trajectory is more typical in my view for a rookie.

These rookies are super fun to watch and really have generated a great deal of energy and as your post indicates discussion which is fantastic.

I've also been anticipating the year that JuJu comes out... That might well be another banner year for rooks.

When the Fever rolled into town (Phoenix t he inferno or Mars like location from May through October) it was billed as the Goat versus the rook.

Very entertaining game and one that may foreshadow the passing of the torch to athletes like those in this rookie class.

I would say however that the GOAT's accomplishments will never be approached, with perhaps the exception of her career lead in technicals.

Edit: after posting this I was thinking if I could get Bill James or some other stat jockey I'd ask them since the w started what percentage of rookies make starting rosters and what percentage of rookies start. It would be really interesting to see that analysis over time and to compare this rookie class. I would also guess there's some BYs here who could recall if another rookie class had so many starters, other than the first two or three years of the league.

 

[azfan]

I'd have to go with Angel right now. Clark fills up the stat sheet for sure but Angel's making history and the better two way player right now. Really close though, will be interested in what it looks like in September.

As is Clark

 

[visitingcock]

This is been a tremendous rookie class to watch. I'm hard-pressed to think of another class that had individuals who could step in and perform at such an elite level. As you mentioned there's depth to this rookie class and in addition to those you mentioned Cardosa has certainly impressed.

The WNBA league pass uses Chicago's announcers when they're home and they're announcer the the guy is really entertaining. He regularly mentions the Cardosa has the best resting face he's ever seen. Since he said that I've noticed that she really does have a natural smile and she wears that bad boy all the time.

As we approach the Olympic break I would guess there's a consensus that Clark and Reese are 1A and 1B.

I'd have Cardosa 2, slightly above Jackson although you could argue they are 2A and 2B. Sheldon has also had flashes although her trajectory is more typical in my view for a rookie.

These rookies are super fun to watch and really have generated a great deal of energy and as your post indicates discussion which is fantastic.

I've also been anticipating the year that JuJu comes out... That might well be another banner year for rooks.

When the Fever rolled into town (Phoenix t he inferno or Mars like location from May through October) it was billed as the Goat versus the rook.

Very entertaining game and one that may foreshadow the passing of the torch to athletes like those in this rookie class.

I would say however that the GOAT's accomplishments will never be approached, with perhaps the exception of her career lead in technicals.

Edit: after posting this I was thinking if I could get Bill James or some other stat jockey I'd ask them since the w started what percentage of rookies make starting rosters and what percentage of rookies start. It would be really interesting to see that analysis over time and to compare this rookie class. I would also guess there's some BYs here who could recall if another rookie class had so many starters, other than the first two or three years of the league.

Don't forget where we are. Aaliyah Edwards looking very solid as a rookie.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

I think it's Clark but Reese is having a fantastic run. Clark is averaging 16.7 points, 7.6 assists, 5.9 rebounds and is top 15 in steals and blocks. Her scoring efficiency isn't great and TOs are high, but her A/TO ratio is improving as the season goes on and she's passing the ball at an unprecedented rate and is continuing to improve.

Reese’s scoring/rebounding are excellent and she also is improving as the season goes on. I think a lot will depend on who makes the playoffs and the second half of the season.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

At this point in time I would give Angel the edge for ROY. She's has helped lead a Chicago team that lost 75% of their players in the off-season to playoff contention. A team that was projected to be last in the league to start the season. Meanwhile Indiana brings back basically the same roster and the missing piece to their roster last year was a PG so the roster positioned for her to succeed anyway.

Both are deserving in my opinion and I know the stats will lean towards Clark. But Angel doing what she's doing in a league that dominated primarily by 4/5's is nothing short of impressive. I lean towards Angel because she's doing all this with "less" than what Clark is working with in Indiana.

 

[cancontent]

A'ja had a very casual 24 point, 20 rebound game today.

This had me chuckling.

 

[The deacon]

Clark fills up the stat sheet for sure but Angel's making history and the better two way player right now.

As is Clark

Truly, azfan!

GirlBoo, wouldn't you think 'filling up the stat sheet' is a good thing? After all, points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks all tend to help one's team, right? Caitlin brings all of that to her team.

 

[bbsamjj]

This is been a tremendous rookie class to watch. I'm hard-pressed to think of another class that had individuals who could step in and perform at such an elite level. As you mentioned there's depth to this rookie class and in addition to those you mentioned Cardosa has certainly impressed.

The WNBA league pass uses Chicago's announcers when they're home and they're announcer the the guy is really entertaining. He regularly mentions the Cardosa has the best resting face he's ever seen. Since he said that I've noticed that she really does have a natural smile and she wears that bad boy all the time.

As we approach the Olympic break I would guess there's a consensus that Clark and Reese are 1A and 1B.

I'd have Cardosa 2, slightly above Jackson although you could argue they are 2A and 2B. Sheldon has also had flashes although her trajectory is more typical in my view for a rookie.

These rookies are super fun to watch and really have generated a great deal of energy and as your post indicates discussion which is fantastic.

I've also been anticipating the year that JuJu comes out... That might well be another banner year for rooks.

When the Fever rolled into town (Phoenix t he inferno or Mars like location from May through October) it was billed as the Goat versus the rook.

Very entertaining game and one that may foreshadow the passing of the torch to athletes like those in this rookie class.

I would say however that the GOAT's accomplishments will never be approached, with perhaps the exception of her career lead in technicals.

Edit: after posting this I was thinking if I could get Bill James or some other stat jockey I'd ask them since the w started what percentage of rookies make starting rosters and what percentage of rookies start. It would be really interesting to see that analysis over time and to compare this rookie class. I would also guess there's some BYs here who could recall if another rookie class had so many starters, other than the first two or three years of the league.

The Griner/EDD/Diggins class of 2013 will always be up there, though Diggins was pretty shaky as a rookie before she exploded her second year.

2019 might end up being one of deepest and best draft classes ever (J. Young, McCowan, Arike, Collier, A. Smith, B. Turner, Ezi, KLS in first round; Mabrey, Hiedeman, Carleton, Cunningham in second)--though only Collier, Arike, McCowan were real standouts as rookies.

2008 you had Parker/Fowles 1-2, with Langhorne, Carson, in first round along with other folks who hung around in league for a while. There will (likely) never be another rookie who wins MVP like Parker did.

I might actually give nod to 2006. In top 6 you had Augustus (22pg, 3.8rpg), Pondexter (19.5ppg, 3rpg, 3apg), Currie (10ppg, 4rpg), Sophia Young (12ppg, 7.6rpg), Candice Dupree (13.7ppg, 5.5rpg). (that's 3 of the top 15 all time WNBA Scorers in one draft class).

 

[bballnut90]

The Griner/EDD/Diggins class of 2013 will always be up there, though Diggins was pretty shaky as a rookie before she exploded her second year.

2019 might end up being one of deepest and best draft classes ever (J. Young, McCowan, Arike, Collier, A. Smith, B. Turner, Ezi, KLS in first round; Mabrey, Hiedeman, Carleton, Cunningham in second)--though only Collier, Arike, McCowan were real standouts as rookies.

2008 you had Parker/Fowles 1-2, with Langhorne, Carson, in first round along with other folks who hung around in league for a while. There will (likely) never be another rookie who wins MVP like Parker did.

I might actually give nod to 2006. In top 6 you had Augustus (22pg, 3.8rpg), Pondexter (19.5ppg, 3rpg, 3apg), Currie (10ppg, 4rpg), Sophia Young (12ppg, 7.6rpg), Candice Dupree (13.7ppg, 5.5rpg). (that's 3 of the top 15 all time WNBA Scorers in one draft class).

The 2006 class is often overlooked since all were arguably overshadowed by other legendary players (Augustus overshadowed by Maya Moore, Pondexter by Taurasi, Young's career was relatively short, and Dupree was almost always a 2nd or 3rd option). Insanely top heavy production for a rookie class though that likely will never be matched.


2008 might take the cake though. To expand you had:
#1 Candace Parker- league MVP as a rookie
#2 Sylvia Fowles- only played half of her rookie year, averaged 10.5/7.5 though. Future league MVP.
#3 Candice Wiggins- 15.7 ppg, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals
#4 Alexis Hornbuckle- major role player for the championship team, led league in steals as a rookie
#5 Matee Ajavon- 8 ppg as a rookie,
#6 Crystal Langhorne- future WNBA All Star and 2nd Team All-WNBA player
#7 Essence Carson-6.6 ppg, future WNBA All Star
#8 Tamera Young-7.3 ppg, 13 year WNBA career
#9 Amber Holt- 6.5 ppg as a rookie
#10 Laura Harper- 5.5 points, 4.0 rebounds as a rookie
#11 Tasha Humphrey- 7.3 ppg as a rookie
#13 LaToya Pringle- future double digit scorer and starter on championship team
#14 Erlana Larkins- 10 year WNBA career, almost averaged a double double in 2014
#15 Shannon Bobbitt- started 17 games as a rookie, averaged 4.1 points, 3.5 assists, was only 5-2
#16 Nicky Anosike - 9.2 points, 6.8 rebounds and 2nd in league in steals as a rookie, future All Star
#22 Allie Quigley - future 3x All Star
#24 Leilani Mitchell - 13 year WNBA career, 2x WNBA Most Improved Player
#30 Charde Houston - 8.8 points as rookie, future WNBA All Star
#31 Crystal Kelly - 7.4 points, 3.3 rebounds as a rookie

 

[GirlBoo1020]

Truly, azfan!

GirlBoo, wouldn't you think 'filling up the stat sheet' is a good thing? After all, points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks all tend to help one's team, right? Caitlin brings all of that to her team.

I didn't say filling out the stat sheet is a bad thing but I think people put too much emphasis on it. Especially when it comes to defense and rebounding. An undisciplined defender can rack up a lot of steals and blocks because they over rotate and cheat and the box score will track their successes but won't account for the multitude of wide open lay ups and threes they might have given up for 2 steals and 3 blocks. Not saying that is who Clark is defensively but just an example of why I think the box score is A tool in evaluating a player but not the end all be all fans and the media make it out to be.

A lot of the greatest defenders in the WNBA don't get acknowledged or credit because why they do doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

 

[GamecockFam]

I didn't say filling out the stat sheet is a bad thing but I think people put too much emphasis on it. Especially when it comes to defense and rebounding. An undisciplined defender can rack up a lot of steals and blocks because they over rotate and cheat and the box score will track their successes but won't account for the multitude of wide open lay ups and threes they might have given up for 2 steals and 3 blocks. Not saying that is who Clark is defensively but just an example of why I think the box score is A tool in evaluating a player but not the end all be all fans and the media make it out to be.

A lot of the greatest defenders in the WNBA don't get acknowledged or credit because why they do doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

From what I've seen, Clark is an average defender. She is not very good at keeping her man in front of her and she is a step too slow on closing out. But she is very opportunistic and has a great feel for help-side defense. It's usually in those situations where she racks up her steals and blocks. Like she'll sneak in and take the ball away from a post player from behind.

She was a liability on defense in this past game against the Mystics. They were isolating her on one side and abusing that matchup. Most of her steals and blocks came in the 4th quarter when they were down by 20 points and needed to take those chances to catch up.

 

[cancontent]

 

[JellyBean]

I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.

Angel has been very impressive, and the pick is working well for Chicago. I think overall the ROY race will be close. Both Clark and Reese are doing relatively well for their teams and putting up decent numbers. If the ROY stays close, like it is now, I can see where the W might pull a Jason Kidd/Grant Hill Co-ROY moment.