Magic declares Caitlin Clarke 2nd to Diana | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Magic declares Caitlin Clarke 2nd to Diana

Status
Not open for further replies.
meyers7 said:
NPOY and 2 FF's. Does Clark have those yet? And that's while being injured 2 years.
Expand ...
I'm basing it on their college stats and what they've done on the court. Clark has one less FF than Paige, and will likely have her NPOY award in the coming days.
 
choclate45 said:
If Caitlin doesn’t win a national championship I doubt we will be talking about her as one of the greatest women college players. People seem to already forget what Sabrina did three years ago or what Plum did her senior year.
Expand ...
So Ted Williams is not among the top greatest hitters of all time because his teams never won a WS. . I guess if you are young enough you might not know Ted Williams. And I loathe the Red Sox. As great as Diana and Stewie were, they both had a heck of a cast of teammates. I’d could argue that Clark has maybe done more for her team with less top shelf support. There is only one reason I would pay to see Iowa even if I thought they would have a hard time winning. Clark just does things on the court 99.999% of other players ever can’t do. Fun to watch. That her team has a shot at an NC is only because of her. UConn was in an NC discussion this year even without Bueckers. I think anyone downplaying a player like Sabrina because her team never won the whole thing is using a criteria that is beyond one player’s control. The end of year tournament of 6 games tends to
make people forget 30 something games that preceded the tournament. Is Brink less a player because most of her teammates were stinko in a tournament game?

We are talking players, not teams. Frankly 5 or 6 years out a lot of fans can’t tell you who won a title in a given year. Couldn’t say if Oregon won obe ir not. Half would probably guess UConn.
 
Magic is my idol. First sports memory is cheering the Lakers just before my 5th birthday when he won the 1980 Finals MVP. To this day, I love the man and everything he is and represents. I have memorized his moves, his stats, his interviews, what games he smiled the most in, his wins, his losses, everything. It remains my dream in life to meet the man.

That said...he's often a bit hyperbolic. At this point it's an absurd statement. Could be true one day. Could be true that she one day is considered best ever. That would be down the line.

As for the Paige-Caitlin discussion, I'd still, yes, put Paige above. Obviously going forward depends on injury but in their first two years I don't think there was much doubt Paige was a bit better. Can score just as well, better passer, better defender. To me it's almost like in the NBA. Steph changed the game more than LeBron. But LeBron is...just better. Clark and her long-range pullup bombs could change the women's game in a similar way for the next generation. But Paige is...just better. James Harden put up videogame stats for years. Was called greatest offensive player ever by many. And yet LeBron was...just better. Clark is putting up videogame stats in college. And yet Paige is...just better.

Also, UConn is national title contender without Paige whereas Iowa wouldn't be without Clark? I mean...did we not just watch UConn get beat in the Sweet 16 (handily!) for first time in forever with Paige playing the role of cheerleader? We think similar fate wouldn't have awaited the 2021 or 2022 teams with no Paige?

I love watching Clark and love her game and spirit and fire. But Magic was way over the top and, yeah, I'd take PB over her yet.

Some of that is my Minnesota bias, no doubt. But I also truly believe it. And going forward, next year, if I had to build a team around one of them, I'd take Paige in a heartbeat.*

*Again, health will play a part in this.
 
.-.
cohenzone said:
So Ted Williams is not among the top greatest hitters of all time because his teams never won a WS. . I guess if you are young enough you might not know Ted Williams. And I loathe the Red Sox. As great as Diana and Stewie were, they both had a heck of a cast of teammates. I’d could argue that Clark has maybe done more for her team with less top shelf support. There is only one reason I would pay to see Iowa even if I thought they would have a hard time winning. Clark just does things on the court 99.999% of other players ever can’t do. Fun to watch. That her team has a shot at an NC is only because of her. UConn was in an NC discussion this year even without Bueckers. I think anyone downplaying a player like Sabrina because her team never won the whole thing is using a criteria that is beyond one player’s control. The end of year tournament of 6 games tends to
make people forget 30 something games that preceded the tournament. Is Brink less a player because most of her teammates were stinko in a tournament game?

We are talking players, not teams. Frankly 5 or 6 years out a lot of fans can’t tell you who won a title in a given year. Couldn’t say if Oregon won obe ir not. Half would probably guess UConn.
Expand ...
I know who Ted Williams is.

If Caitlin ends up having the most points yes she will be considered one of the greatest shooters in NCAA WBB History. That is different from the greatest player.

I am not downplaying Sabrina or Kelsey. I remember the same people saying the same thing about them while they were playing and not one single person is comparing them to Caitlin which is crazy.
 
I don’t like the “1st, 2nd, etc” thing. Caitlin is clearly one of the best guards in wcbb along with Diana, Sue, Tischa, and others but better than Stewie, Maya, Tamika Catchings, lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, et al? Don’t think so
 
Bone Dog said:
Barring catastrophic injury, I'd be surprised if, twenty years from now, we don't routinely think of Caitlin as one of the GOATs in WBB, college and pro. Not winning an NC, if that's what happens to her, will seem less damaging to her reputation then. On the other hand, if she engineers an upset this week and actually takes Iowa all the way, I think we'll start talking about her as one of the GOATs in WCBB even now.

And, just by the way, I'd make a case for Stewie as the GOAT even over Diana.
Expand ...
Well said, Bone Dog. I'd have Stewie and Maya both ahead of Diana, and a few others from schools we shouldn't mention here who'd be right there with DT.
hoopsnloops32 said:
DT was also forced to play defense.
Expand ...
You're kidding, right, Hoops? I've watched Caitlin play more aggressive and more effective defense consistently this year than I ever saw from DT, who played defense only when the spirit occasionally moved her.
mhshuskies said:
Probably best this season, but only because someone else is injured

would she even make the top ten UCONN players?
Expand ...
Okay, mhshuskies, please name me 10 current or former Huskies who are or were better in college than Caitlin Clark is now.

Fairfield Fan said:
But DT earned two NC's with a cast around her that was mediocre at best. This is not the first NC her sophomore year, but her junior and senior years.
Expand ...
IMO, this is one of the major misconceptions/myths in UConn WCBB history. Unquestionably, DT was, along with Geno's coaching, a primary reason the Huskies won those last two titles. However, to call her teammates 'mediocre at best' is both embarrassingly disparaging to those ex-Huskies but also dead wrong. DT had fine teammates, up to and including those Final Fours. Sadly for those two teams, they shrink in retrospect in comparison to the great teams immediately preceding.

Shenandoah said:
Lest we forget that, 2 years ago, one Paige Bueckers was equal, if not better than Caitlin Clark. IJS...
Expand ...
Agreed, two years ago... and, hopefully, during the '23-24 season. For '21-22 and '22-23, Caitlin has gone above and beyond the level they both played at as freshmen.
 
Last edited:
The deacon said:
Well said, Bone Dog. I'd have Stewie and Maya both ahead of Diana, and a few others from schools we shouldn't mention here who'd be right there with DT.

You're kidding, right, Hoops? I've watched Caitlin play more aggressive and more effective defense consistently this year than I ever saw from DT, who played defense only when the spirit occasionally moved her.

Okay, mhshuskies, please name me 10 current or former Huskies who are or were better in college than Caitlin Clark is now.


IMO, this is one of the major misconceptions/myths in UConn WCBB history. Unquestionably, DT was, along with Geno's coaching, a primary reason the Huskies won those last two titles. However, to call her teammates 'mediocre at best' is both embarrassingly disparaging to those ex-Huskies but also dead wrong. DT had fine teammates, up to and including those Final Fours. Sadly for those two teams, they shrink in retrospect in comparison to the great teams immediately preceding.


Agreed, two years ago... and, hopefully, during the '23-24 season. For '21-22 and '22-23, Caitlin has gone above and beyond the level they both played at as freshmen.

But DT earned two NC's with a cast around her that was mediocre at best. This is not the first NC her sophomore year, but her junior and senior years.

But DT earned two NC's with a cast around her that was mediocre at best. This is not the first NC her sophomore year, but her junior and senior years.
Expand ...
Taurasi is an underrated defender. And regardless of what you think of her individual defensive ability, she played in a TEAM defensive system that was much more taxing and involved than Iowa's. UConn had a top 10 defense every season she played, where as Iowa's doesn't even crack the top 100. Big difference.
 
HuskyNan said:
I don’t like the “1st, 2nd, etc” thing. Caitlin is clearly one of the best guards in wcbb along with Diana, Sue, Tischa, and others but better than Stewie, Maya, Tamika Catchings, lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, et al? Don’t think so
Expand ...
Caitlin's different from all those great, great players you mentioned, Nan, just different... how do we compare DT or Sue to Maya or Stewie? We really can't.

What is missed by so many who knock down Caitlin (and probably haven't seen her play more than once or twice) is that the best part of her game is her passing. Sabrina would be a reasonable comparison in that regard.

Unless the Hawkeyes pull a huge upset tomorrow and then win another tough game on Sunday, Clark's resume will probably be absent a national title. That should never be the primary determinant for GOAT consideration.
 
Talent wise I'm not sure she isn't among the top 5-6 players of all time. In 25+ years of watching basketball, I've never seen someone carry such a heavy load for her team, take and make the shots she does, and pass at the level she does. She consistently wins, plus she often plays her best basketball in the biggest moments (evidenced by her Indiana, Big Ten Championship, and Elite 8 performances). She's also brought Iowa basketball to new heights, reaching the Final Four for the first time in 30 years. Had she gone to a Stanford, UCONN, or South Carolina she would've won multiple titles by now, but staying home and elevating a different one the way she has deserves merit.

Basketball is a team sport, and all of the great Tennessee and UCONN players played on teams that were generally loaded with future WNBA players and had teammates who were former McDonald's All Americans or top 5 recruits. Even outside of those schools, Cheryl Miller had Cynthia Cooper for 4 years and the McGee twins for 2. It's too early to make any grand conclusions about where Clark's place in history finishes up, but she's a special talent that rarely comes along.
 
Last edited:
.-.
choclate45 said:
If Caitlin doesn’t win a national championship I doubt we will be talking about her as one of the greatest women college players. People seem to already forget what Sabrina did three years ago or what Plum did her senior year.
Expand ...
Perhaps some have, choclate45. I haven't, and apparently you haven't either.
 
Very fair assessment by Magic. Purely as an offensive player; shooting, passing, rebounding, clutch shots. Factoring in FF or NC is not a fair comparison, simply the arsenal of offensive skills!
 
LoL. I love Magic but there may be some recency bias in his comment! I'd take Paige over Clarke in terms of talent/accomplishments even if comparing contemporary players.
 
Bone Dog said:
Barring catastrophic injury, I'd be surprised if, twenty years from now, we don't routinely think of Caitlin as one of the GOATs in WBB, college and pro. Not winning an NC, if that's what happens to her, will seem less damaging to her reputation then. On the other hand, if she engineers an upset this week and actually takes Iowa all the way, I think we'll start talking about her as one of the GOATs in WCBB even now.

And, just by the way, I'd make a case for Stewie as the GOAT even over Diana.
Expand ...
Agreed. Why does Stewie get missed in some of these conversations
 
choclate45 said:
I have not. I was asked at work recently if Sabrina was still in the WNBA which is sad on all levels.
Expand ...
The only reason i know some UConn greats are still in the WNBA (.or NBA for that matter) is through the BY. I find both generally uninteresting. That’s just me. But i’m guessing the overall knowledge among sports fans in the WNBA isn’t much greater than the pro bowling tour.
 
.-.
meyers7 said:
He's not yet. You have to be great, win, and do it for an extended time to be in contention for GOAT talk.

Having a great year or a great couple years, don't get you GOAT status.

Magic is trying to put Clark above Stewart/Moore/Holdsclaw/Parker/Miller.

Heck, right now, Clark is on the Stiles level. AA and gonna win NPOY and got her team to FF. That's it so far.
Expand ...
There is little doubt Ohtani is one of the greatest athletic talent ever. He will have to sustain this for a few years, but there is no doubt he is fully capable of GOAT status.

That being said, I would take DT, Stewart, Moore, Paige and several other UConn greats over Clark.
 
HuskyNan said:
I don’t like the “1st, 2nd, etc” thing. Caitlin is clearly one of the best guards in wcbb along with Diana, Sue, Tischa, and others but better than Stewie, Maya, Tamika Catchings, lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, et al? Don’t think so
Expand ...
I would add Ann Meier. Who is Tischa?
 
bballnut90 said:
Basketball is a team sport, and all of the great Tennessee and UCONN players played on teams that were generally loaded with future WNBA players and had teammates who were former McDonald's All Americans or top 5 recruits. Even outside of those schools, Cheryl Miller had Cynthia Cooper for 4 years and the McGee twins for 2. It's too early to make any grand conclusions about where Clark's place in history finishes up, but she's a special talent that rarely comes along.
Expand ...
ESPN has 3 Iowa players in their Final Four Top 10 list. So Clark isn't alone to bring Iowa to this year's Final Four.

Clark is great and as I said already I wish she can beat South Carolina and get the NPOY award.

www.espn.com

Ranking the top 25 players in the women's Final Four

Caitlin Clark remains No. 1, but the Gamecocks, whose depth had dominated all season, put eight players in the rankings.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
Last edited:
donalddoowop said:
I would add Ann Meier. Who is Tischa?
Expand ...
Have the same question, from Wiki, (I hope it is her ...LOL)

Patrícia Nunes "Ticha" Penicheiro, OIH is a Portuguese sports agent and former basketball player. She played for the Sacramento Monarchs in the WNBA for most of her professional career. She was a four-time WNBA All-Star and a three-time All-WNBA selection. Wikipedia
 
.-.
HuskyNan said:
I don’t like the “1st, 2nd, etc” thing. Caitlin is clearly one of the best guards in wcbb along with Diana, Sue, Tischa, and others but better than Stewie, Maya, Tamika Catchings, lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, et al? Don’t think so
Expand ...

imo, neither is Paige better than Stewie, Maya, Tamika Catchings, Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, et al.
 
hoopsfan22 said:
In what way is Paige better than Clark? Based on performance on the court I don't think it's close.
Expand ...
The only reason Caitlin Clark has superseded Paige in the national conversation is because she has been injured. I absolutely love watching Caitlin Clark play and she is indeed a special talent, but she plays for a program and coach that allows her particular skills to shine. Yes, she is the best long-range shooter in the game, and her court vision this year has dramatically improved. She provides the "ohh" moments everyone wants to talk about from her logo "threes" to the no-look passes.

If she were to play for UConn, her talents would be evident, but her stats would be lower. Just a function of systems. If anybody doesn't think that Paige, playing in Iowa's system wasn't capable of duplicating or exceeding Clark's numbers doesn't recognize her extraordinary abilities. Paige has incredible court awareness, seldom is out of position, and sees a play develop before it happens. She possesses one of the prettiest pull-up jumpers I've ever seen. Clark is a showman, but Paige has an equal amount of swagger - she is more muted.

I will state it here and now, Paige will regain her spot on top on WCBB pedestal next season. There was a cut to her during the Ohio State while UConn was trailing in the second half, and for those brief seconds, you could see her mind already moving forward to next year. While I am sure she is ecstatic for Caitlin to win NPOY, in Paige's mind, it is only on loan.

I am absolutely convinced that she will bring UConn back to where it belongs next season. If I am wrong, I will own my statement.
 
hoopsfan22 said:
I'm basing it on their college stats and what they've done on the court. Clark has one less FF than Paige, and will likely have her NPOY award in the coming days.
Expand ...
True, but not yet.
 
meyers7 said:
He's not yet. You have to be great, win, and do it for an extended time to be in contention for GOAT talk.

Having a great year or a great couple years, don't get you GOAT status.

Magic is trying to put Clark above Stewart/Moore/Holdsclaw/Parker/Miller.

Heck, right now, Clark is on the Stiles level. AA and gonna win NPOY and got her team to FF. That's it so far.
Expand ...
He might not have ever seen them play other than a video clip. ;)
 
cohenzone said:
So Ted Williams is not among the top greatest hitters of all time because his teams never won a WS. . I guess if you are young enough you might not know Ted Williams. And I loathe the Red Sox. As great as Diana and Stewie were, they both had a heck of a cast of teammates. I’d could argue that Clark has maybe done more for her team with less top shelf support. There is only one reason I would pay to see Iowa even if I thought they would have a hard time winning. Clark just does things on the court 99.999% of other players ever can’t do. Fun to watch. That her team has a shot at an NC is only because of her. UConn was in an NC discussion this year even without Bueckers. I think anyone downplaying a player like Sabrina because her team never won the whole thing is using a criteria that is beyond one player’s control. The end of year tournament of 6 games tends to
make people forget 30 something games that preceded the tournament. Is Brink less a player because most of her teammates were stinko in a tournament game?

We are talking players, not teams. Frankly 5 or 6 years out a lot of fans can’t tell you who won a title in a given year. Couldn’t say if Oregon won obe ir not. Half would probably guess UConn.
Expand ...
Now, you're changing goal posts here. Being greatest hitter, would be like being greatest shooter, or scorer or rebounder. People are talking greatest "player" (of all time).

Nobody thinks less of Clark or Brink or Sabrina. They are great players. But we talking about GOAT status here. And you ABSOLUTELY have to have won something to be in those kind of conversations.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,205
Messages
4,556,830
Members
10,442
Latest member
Virginiafan


Top Bottom