Lifted from VT CR board

[DarthGrumpy]

Interesting. I'm still trying to find out which of the two practices is more disgusting and reprehensible. I'm going to go out on a limb that Dr. Sullivan would be genuinely surprised and appalled if that was happening on her campus.

Uh, that happens everywhere. It goes all the way back to high school for cripes sake. I knew a girl on my floor at UConn who during a UConn game on TV, would point out all of the players she slept with on BOTH teams and she did not do it for the money. Ray Allen and Donny Marshall could have walked from MSB to Alumni on any given night and received several unsolicited offers for a fun night while I was at school. Heck, I head of similar stories about football recruits at Ithaca College - a good DIII football program. The difference is that this was voluntary. At Louisville, for some unknown reason, the decided that they had to hire (likely with direct or indirect, i.e. booster. money) professionals and then got caught.

 

[The Viking]

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

I would imagine any ACC president worth his/her salt regrets adding Louisville EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education than a Bobby Petrino-led football team. Maybe a couple?
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

 

[btstimpy]

I've lived and worked in Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill. ND wasn't discussed. It was Penn State and Rutgers was distant second. Never ND.

I went to school in College Park. ND was never discussed. Maryland mostly and then Navy. Never ND.

The New Jersey response is what I'd expect with Penn State primary and Rutgers distant from that. It is Penn State territory. You'll get ND if you get around Catholics. Otherwise Penn State. If you run across a Rutgers alumni, my expectation is that you'll hear that. It will be much less.

If in College Park you didn't hear Maryland, that would be embarrassing. I was referring to Baltimore and Annapolis. I would suspect you'd hear Navy in Annapolis a lot if you talk to the Midshipmen and their families and friends. If they keep doing as well as they have been, even more. Penn State is huge in that area just like South Jersey.

 

[btstimpy]

I would imagine any ACC president worth his/her salt regrets adding Louisville EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education than a Bobby Petrino-led football team. Maybe a couple?
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

There are nine new Presidents at the 15 ACC Institutions that have been sworn in since Louisville was added. Only the Presidents at UVA, Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Notre Dame carry over from the vote to add Louisville. ND didn't vote, but they were consulted. I don't know if this means anything, but it is a changing of the guard.

 

[The Viking]

There are nine new Presidents at the 15 ACC Institutions that have been sworn in since Louisville was added. Only the Presidents at UVA, Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Notre Dame carry over from the vote to add Louisville. ND didn't vote, but they were consulted. I don't know if this means anything, but it is a changing of the guard.

It means nothing. Recent history has shown that the majority of ACC schools don't give a damn about academics when it comes to their student athletes.

 

[btstimpy]

Uh, that happens everywhere. It goes all the way back to high school for cripes sake. I knew a girl on my floor at UConn who during a UConn game on TV, would point out all of the players she slept with on BOTH teams and she did not do it for the money. Ray Allen and Donny Marshall could have walked from MSB to Alumni on any given night and received several unsolicited offers for a fun night while I was at school. Heck, I head of similar stories about football recruits at Ithaca College - a good DIII football program. The difference is that this was voluntary. At Louisville, for some unknown reason, the decided that they had to hire (likely with direct or indirect, i.e. booster. money) professionals and then got caught.

The organizing of female "hostesses" for football recruits has long been the role of the coaching recruiting staff at football schools. The leeway of this is a gray area, and it can get quite close to the line in terms of coercion. In this day and age of litigation happy society, the rules should be changed to allow hiring professionals IMO.

I know that James Franklin got dangerously close at Vanderbilt to being in big trouble doing the coercion routine.

Changing subjects, Mr. Conehead. I'm not sure if you go back far enough, but do you know if UConn is responsible for politically manipulating the Big East to kick Temple out to take their spot for FBS football 15 years ago? I always though UConn's rise to FBS and Temple's boot were unrelated. I'm hearing that they weren't in places I don't want to hear it. I don't know enough to refute it, but I want to if it is not at all true. If it is true, then so be it. Louisville kicked VT out of the Metro before. That can be overcome. But I don't want false rumors out there where I know they are.

 

[Yawkey Way]

. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

Jerry Sandusky sure was all about the education of young people when he roamed the academic and athletic halls during his many years at Penn State.

Look, none of these league alignment decisions are about " Academics ". No matter what anybody tells us otherwise. They are driven by money. Period. And when it comes to " academic caring ", the NCAA and its member institutions give only lip service to that... as money is what drives all these School Presidents when they decide to vote on expansion. And lest we forget, the BE School Presidents all voted to boot Temple to the curb from its league... and yet Temple is a fine academic institution, far better academically than most of its peers were in the BE at the time. But they were a drag on the other BE School President's money, so thats why they were booted to the curb by these BE School Presidents. The BIG has no more, nor no less, scandals with their student- athletes, Coaches, than the ACC or any other league. Not if you have been reading the stories that come out of Columbus, Ann Arbor, Happy Valley, et al these last few years.

 

[Fishy]

A quick memo to the UVa and BC twits who have recently risen from the dead....

Less is more.

Not every thread needs your participation and since neither of you have anything to offer other than writing high-pitched defensive narratives for your school/conference, we do not need to hear much from you.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Less is more.

.

More or less.

That said, I'll heed your angry admonition, and take a break for awhile. I do get the point that this is a Uconn Board and some people can get real angry with outsiders take on things. So I'll return one and all to the Uconn bubble world that seems preferred here. Take care.. be well.

 

[Hoophound]

Like Indiana? Like Kansas? Like Kentucky?

No, like UConn before Edsall left. We have passionate football fans, it has been proven. A decent football team playing a schedule of big boy schools results in a great atmosphere. We really don't need to speculate if that would happen, it already happened when we were in the a Big East.

 

[Pat125]

Uh, that happens everywhere. It goes all the way back to high school for cripes sake. I knew a girl on my floor at UConn who during a UConn game on TV, would point out all of the players she slept with on BOTH teams and she did not do it for the money. Ray Allen and Donny Marshall could have walked from MSB to Alumni on any given night and received several unsolicited offers for a fun night while I was at school. Heck, I head of similar stories about football recruits at Ithaca College - a good DIII football program. The difference is that this was voluntary. At Louisville, for some unknown reason, the decided that they had to hire (likely with direct or indirect, i.e. booster. money) professionals and then got caught.

What happened with the young woman you knew didn't sound like it was organized by the Athletic Department or other employees. If she slept with all these men on her own volition, and was proud enough to point them out, that's her business. But having athletic departments setting up women for sex (intentionally or looking the other way) for the purpose of securing recruits is a reprehensible practice, among other things, regardless if it happens all the time.

 

[auggie22]

The Louisville prostitution scandal doesn't bother me in the least. College football recruiting has been using young women to recruit football players going back before Bear Bryant at Alabama. I like the idea of actually seeing someone hire professionals rather than pimping their coeds. It goes on everywhere, and it's a shame Louisville is a scape goat.

You are not a father of daughters, I would guess.

 

[MattMang23]

You are not a father of daughters, I would guess.

Not to defend his position but it was a mother of daughters who pimped the prostitutes at Louisville. Sadly I'm not sure parenthood always is the best indicator of what side of the fence people are on.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'd say as many folks in Florida watch the combo of FSU and Miami as they do Florida...and South Carolina is split pretty near 50-50 on Clemson/South Carolina. Georgia owns their state. There are no ACC teams in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mizzouri.

The ACC owns North Carolina and Virginia. Louisville and Kentucky will be pulling closer in splitting Kentucky football fans but Kentucky probably has the lead now.

South Carolina is better than 50% of South Carolina. But you are right that Clemson isn't just followed locally in the western mountains. It's more like 60-40 or 65-35.

I don't see gloom and doom for the ACC, but I sure see a lot of stupidity. Louisville, Pitt and Syracuse vs. UConn, Rutgers and Maryland. In hindsight, be honest, which would you rather have in the ACC? Think about that map before you answer. With the correct moves early on, they would have a Network in the works, and a GOR, before Maryland bolted. Miami to Maine would be your footprint.

The lesson is a simple one. Never settle for the #2 or #3 property in a given region when a #1 property is available. Honestly, they should have said yes to WVU too.

 

[btstimpy]

You are not getting it. The BIG added Maryland and Rutgers to sell cable boxes and form a permanent east coast presence. This is why the BIG is making way more than the ACC. The BIG network changes the financial dynamics and regions become more important.

So the BIG expanded to keep PSU happy cause they didn't want to lose them? Ummm, where was PSU going...Answer, no where, the BIG is the top conference in the north. PSU may have a ton of fans in NJ who want to see them play there but the BIG was not paying $35 million + a year to Rutgers for that...Rutgers made the BIG money and allowed further east coast access

Dudes in a bar cheering for their team does not equate to owning a region. I'll take the BIG financial analysts over the ACC bar survey.

I get it perfectly. The B1G did go after cable boxes in the region for a boost to the BTN. But they knew cable boxes are on the decline nationally when they did it. They probably didn't know how rapidly it is happening, causing ESPN and Fox to both downsize. But they knew. That was the public presentation. The real reason was to keep PSU happy. Several of them have admitted it a couple of times, especially the Wisconsin AD.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Changing subjects, Mr. Conehead. I'm not sure if you go back far enough, but do you know if UConn is responsible for politically manipulating the Big East to kick Temple out to take their spot for FBS football 15 years ago? I always though UConn's rise to FBS and Temple's boot were unrelated. I'm hearing that they weren't in places I don't want to hear it. I don't know enough to refute it, but I want to if it is not at all true. If it is true, then so be it. Louisville kicked VT out of the Metro before. That can be overcome. But I don't want false rumors out there where I know they are.

To the best of my knowledge, no. UConn was offered to move up to I-A by the Big E in '97 (along with Villanova), began the change in '99 and then transition from 1-AA to 1-A between 2000 and 2005 when they would join the Big E. That was pushed-up a year to '04 when BC, Miami & V Tech moved to the ACC. I suspect that UConn had other issues to focus on more than Temple's football issues. From '91 to '04, Temple had no winning seasons and had won a total of 14 Big E games. The university's inability to take football seriously, i.e. spend money on the program, frustrated Big E leadership for years, especially the football schools. I mean, why should they get a share of the Big E's football revenues when all they do is lay eggs? At least UConn committed to investing in football - new stadium, full I-A scholarship load, promise of a practice facility, etc. Temple was booted after '04 primary under the believe 'addition by subtraction' at a time when the Big E was in survival mode after the initial defection. The wildcard is that as the Big E was a basketball conference, I am not sure how Coach Chaney's antics as Temple's basketball coach (he should have beat down Coach Cal) ruffled the feather of the holier-than-thou Big E Catholics and, if yes, if that played into any of this, too. Chaney retired in '06.

PS - Temple is pushing hard to build a 35,000 football stadium in North Philly; but, local polticians are not supporting the idea.

http://www.philly.com/philly/infographics/336278291.html

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ll-Stadium-Plan-With-Community-368016441.html

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The New Jersey response is what I'd expect with Penn State primary and Rutgers distant from that. It is Penn State territory. You'll get ND if you get around Catholics. Otherwise Penn State. If you run across a Rutgers alumni, my expectation is that you'll hear that. It will be much less.

If in College Park you didn't hear Maryland, that would be embarrassing. I was referring to Baltimore and Annapolis. I would suspect you'd hear Navy in Annapolis a lot if you talk to the Midshipmen and their families and friends. If they keep doing as well as they have been, even more. Penn State is huge in that area just like South Jersey.

Penn State was never huge in Maryland...just the opposite. For years the Turtles considered the Nittany Lions their biggest rivals (even though Penn State didn't return the favor). Half of College Park consisted of kids from "Ballmer" and another big chunk was from Annapolis. Penn State fans are few and far between in Maryland. South Jersey, yes, big Penn State following. Notre Dame, though, no real following in either area.

 

[Orkney]

I get it perfectly. The B1G did go after cable boxes in the region for a boost to the BTN. But they knew cable boxes are on the decline nationally when they did it. They probably didn't know how rapidly it is happening, causing ESPN and Fox to both downsize. But they knew. That was the public presentation. The real reason was to keep PSU happy. Several of them have admitted it a couple of times, especially the Wisconsin AD.

Notwithstanding the paradigm shift in how content is viewed, you will still have to pay to view it. Maryland and Rutgers were added for ‘eyeballs’ and BTN content. PSU has never been entirely happy in the B1G. Just the same they aren’t going anywhere. They are stuck - albeit in a very desirable place.

 

[btstimpy]

Notwithstanding the paradigm shift in how content is viewed, you will still have to pay to view it. Maryland and Rutgers were added for ‘eyeballs’ and BTN content. PSU has never been entirely happy in the B1G. Just the same they aren’t going anywhere. They are stuck - albeit in a very desirable place.

The Big Ten is too smart to add Maryland and Rutgers for 'eyeballs'. They added Nebraska for 'eyeballs', yes. If they added Maryland and Rutgers for 'eyeballs', which I don't believe they did, all they'll get are the 'eyeballs' that watch Maryland basketball. Those alone aren't worth adding both schools.

 

[btstimpy]

To the best of my knowledge, no. UConn was offered to move up to I-A by the Big E in '97 (along with Villanova), began the change in '99 and then transition from 1-AA to 1-A between 2000 and 2005 when they would join the Big E. That was pushed-up a year to '04 when BC, Miami & V Tech moved to the ACC. I suspect that UConn had other issues to focus on more than Temple's football issues. From '91 to '04, Temple had no winning seasons and had won a total of 14 Big E games. The university's inability to take football seriously, i.e. spend money on the program, frustrated Big E leadership for years, especially the football schools. I mean, why should they get a share of the Big E's football revenues when all they do is lay eggs? At least UConn committed to investing in football - new stadium, full I-A scholarship load, promise of a practice facility, etc. Temple was booted after '04 primary under the believe 'addition by subtraction' at a time when the Big E was in survival mode after the initial defection. The wildcard is that as the Big E was a basketball conference, I am not sure how Coach Chaney's antics as Temple's basketball coach (he should have beat down Coach Cal) ruffled the feather of the holier-than-thou Big E Catholics and, if yes, if that played into any of this, too. Chaney retired in '06.

PS - Temple is pushing hard to build a 35,000 football stadium in North Philly; but, local polticians are not supporting the idea.

http://www.philly.com/philly/infographics/336278291.html

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ll-Stadium-Plan-With-Community-368016441.html

Thanks. That's what I thought. They are independent events, and Temple caused their own issues. I do think Villanova was working against Temple though.

I have been following the Temple football stadium situation. I think that the Board will be discussing it today actually. The Temple President is pushing it, and he thinks he's past the politicians. I'm impressed with Temple's football season last year and their ability to hold onto this coach.

 

[Orkney]

The Big Ten is too smart to add Maryland and Rutgers for 'eyeballs'. They added Nebraska for 'eyeballs', yes. If they added Maryland and Rutgers for 'eyeballs', which I don't believe they did, all they'll get are the 'eyeballs' that watch Maryland basketball. Those alone aren't worth adding both schools.

You are suggesting the Rutgers / Maryland add was to keep PSU happy. Why would B1G slice up the pie ($) just to keep PSU happy…they are not going anywhere. You invite Rutgers / Maryland because the addition is (or will be) a value added proposition. If not, what you are suggesting is a very, very expensive way to keep PSU happy - in a manner which is detrimental to every other member of the B1G.

 

[btstimpy]

You are suggesting the Rutgers / Maryland add was to keep PSU happy. Why would B1G slice up the pie ($) just to keep PSU happy…they are not going anywhere. You invite Rutgers / Maryland because the addition is (or will be) a value added proposition. If not, what you are suggesting is a very, very expensive way to keep PSU happy - in a manner which is detrimental to every other member of the B1G.

Bingo. It is what I'm suggesting, and the result is what you are saying. The SPIN about 'moving in the area', bringing Big Ten schools to the east to please the Big Ten alumni in the region is just that, SPIN. They were already in the East with Penn State. There will be a temporary bump in cable boxes until cord cutters make cable boxes like fax machines and type writers.

The real story is what the principals of the Big Ten said at the time.

Jim Delany, "We felt threatened."
E. Gordon Gee, "We had to implement a blocking strategy."
Barry Alvarez. "These were added to hold onto Penn State."

They felt threatened and wanted to block the departure of Penn State. Was Penn State leaving? Probably not, but they were worried enough about it. They just watched the other of the only two college football players in the East, Notre Dame, walk over to the ACC or at least move out of reach of the B1G.

The whole thing was able to be accomplished because the Big Ten was able to promise Wallace Loh enough to betray Maryland's home conference and historical partners. And he did.

 

[The Funster]

More or less.

That said, I'll heed your angry admonition, and take a break for awhile. I do get the point that this is a Uconn Board and some people can get real angry with outsiders take on things. So I'll return one and all to the Uconn bubble world that seems preferred here. Take care.. be well.

It would have been nice if you brought a thoughtful, informed perspective to the board, even one that I disagreed with.

You didn't.

 

[IMind]

Like Indiana? Like Kansas? Like Kentucky?

No like Texas, Michigan, and Florida.

 

[dayooper]

No like Texas, Michigan, and Florida.

I wouldn't use Michigan as an example right now. We are a mess and, excepting a couple of years, have been since 1998.

 

[IMind]

I wouldn't use Michigan as an example right now. We are a mess and, excepting a couple of years, have been since 1998.

Quiet down... were talking about being compared to flipping Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana... Michigan is a well oiled machine compared to those ADs.

 

[Orkney]

No like Texas, Michigan, and Florida.

Texas, Michigan and Florida? UConn only moved up to Div. 1-A in, what, 2000? 2002? I like UConn a lot, I really do. Excellent school, great athletic programs. But you picked some interesting dance partners for the sake of comparison. The air is pretty rarefied up there...

 

[Orkney]

Quiet down... were talking about being compared to flipping Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana... Michigan is a well oiled machine compared to those ADs.

What is wrong with comparisons to Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana? They are all fine schools with solid traditions. I think most would take it as a compliment.

 

[IMind]

What is wrong with comparisons to Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana? They are all fine schools with solid traditions. I think most would take it as a compliment.

Sure they are... we were a better football program than Indiana the very day we set foot in Div. 1-A.

 

[businesslawyer]

Father Jenkins didn't say New England. He said Massachusetts. I say that the ACC owns the State of New York and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts because the ACC has the only P5 members in both, and the ACC has partial Notre Dame, who is very popular in both New York and Massachusetts. I know of no other school other than perhaps Penn State that can sell out every NFL Stadium in the northeast most every time they go to them without concern for who they are playing. Notre Dame isn't a full member of the ACC, but they play the ACC more than any other conference, and they don't play Big Ten very often. They did play UMass last year. Maybe they could play them in Gillette to see how they do.

I do believe UConn owns Connecticut. I think you would be a great addition to the ACC and have thought so for a while. Your renewed rivalries with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt would be great. They have not peaked. They all have great new coaches in football that look to be taking them in a positive direction. Rutgers has peaked. It can't even recruit the best talent in its home state. And you know better than I about the Rutgers-UConn men's basketball rivalry. I can't imagine wanting to renew that.

I do honestly hope UConn gets into the P5. I came back because it's looking like there is a real shot at the Big XII. I'm not worried about a Big XII network. They have zero presence in the ACC area other than perhaps WVU. If folks in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, and Iowa want a channel. Fine by me. I worry about ACC football powers competing with Big XII powers. Clemson crushing Oklahoma the last two years reduces that worry.

If Syracuse is the only regional team that New York state as a whole cares about, please explain why (i) Rutgers football games are clearly the biggest local draw in the NY TV market, and (ii) UConn, and not Syracuse, is the team that has (and had when both were in the Big East) 100% of their football games not on national TV picked up by SNY, the NYC based sports league?

Without ND as a football member, no single conference owns Metro NY football at the moment, but the Big Ten is far closer to it than the ACC. Frankly, if the ACC adds UConn it remains split forever, and if the Ten adds UCOonn NYC becomes a Big Ten City with the ACC of secondary interest. And if we were talking about hoops, since the Big East disintegration the market is hopelessly split, and conferences are looking for "shares," not "ownership."