Lifted from VT CR board

[ZOOCONN]

How is FSU stuck? According to Frank the Tank: "Florida State hits virtually every metric that the Big Ten is looking for long-term; football power, growing population and massive TV markets."

if I had to guess I would say academics

 

[dwalks93]

Come on Billybud. FSU has been in the ACC for 25 years, and you don't know why the ACC is doing what it is doing and think this is a Swofford boondoggle. I come back after being away for almost a year to see what UConn fans think of all of this drama in the Big XII that could lead to a UConn invite, and instead I find this thread debating the motives and direction of the ACC.

The ACC is not a Southern Conference, and it doesn't ever intend to be a Southern Conference. It's an East Coast Conference. There are 7 private universities (Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, Duke, and Miami) along with three public universities that operate like private universities (Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech). All ten require high school students that want to go to college to pay very high tuition. Where do you get those? North of the Mason Dixon line and east of Ohio. It is no Swofford boondoggle that all ten of these universities want to regularly play athletic events on the road north of the mason dixon line and east of Ohio. And the remaining ACC schools (VT, NCSU,Clemson, FSU, and Louisville) are catching on from the others.

The ACC is a collection of universities. It is not a semi-pro football league. The questioning of Syracuse and Boston College is also surprising. Notre Dame's Father Jenkins direct quote, "We at Notre Dame have more alumni, more fans, and more support in New York and Massachusetts than in ALL of the midwest." Where do you think Syracuse and Boston College reside? As for the analysis of which states that the ACC owns. The combination of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Boston College owns New York and Massachusetts. There are no other FBS schools of consequence in either state. You could argue Notre Dame isn't in the ACC, but the ACC has more of them than any other league.

There are only 2 college football teams that drive major interest in the northeast, Notre Dame and Penn State. They both bring large non-alumni fan bases. Notre Dame owns New York and New England. Penn State owns Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland. There is a little crossover with Catholics in the Penn State territory and non Catholics in the ND territory. The rest of the schools in the Northeast are primarily supported by their alumni only.

UConn has done a nice job of becoming the team in Connecticut. That's why I always saw UConn as a good fit for the ACC. Most here don't want to be in the ACC, so I'm surprised there are still threads talking about the ACC. As I read through some of these threads today, there are hardly any ACC fans left on the Boneyard like there were before.

As for FSU playing Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech specifically wants to annually play Duke, Clemson, and North Carolina in that order before ever considering anyone else other than their annual rivalry with Georgia. They have an 83 game history with Duke, an 80 game history with Clemson, and a 50 game history with North Carolina. They only have a 24 game history with FSU. You could ask to swap divisions with Miami to get GT, but you'd lose Clemson. The ACC will not be doing North-South divisions because of the desire for everyone to play north and the northern schools to play south.

Your post is proving my point, the ACC has no strategic focus. It is a rutterless ship which is more interested in ramming other boats as opposed to actually getting somewhere. If Swofford had a vision for an "east coast" conference he failed to retain the teams he needed to hold the key markets.

First off, allow me to be the first Husky fan to challenged your assertion that ND, Syracuse, and BC own NYC. Certainly there is significant numbers of alumni of those schools in NYC but UConn and Rutgers are equally, if not more, important. If you doubt UConn's influence in NYC you need only re-watch the UConn/MSU NCAA tournament game in 2014 or any Big East tournament when we were a member. As numerous prior posts have discussed, many programs have strong alumni presence in NYC but to truly own the market, the ACC needed UConn and Rutgers. Instead the ACC let them walk away. How can the ACC be the east coast team if they do not own NYC, NJ, and Connecticut?

Fast forward to Maryland. Maryland/DC is a huge metro hubb on the east coast. Yet the ACC allowed the BIG to walk in and take them? If Swofford's vision was an "east coast league" the ACC could not afford to lose Connecticut, NYC, NJ, Maryland and Washington DC.

Bottom line is Swofford attempted to change the vision of the ACC. I am surprised you haven't already reached this conclusion but Billybud's posts show he certainly understands it. As football became the big money driver the ACC shifted more toward the south and its dominant football schools. Schools like FSU and Clemson became the focal point and expansion was made not to retain its east coast dominance but to improve its football pedigree particularly in the south (Louisville over UConn). The ACC attempted to directly challenge the SEC only the SEC has the better football programs, the better football region (the deep south) and a more purely football motivated fan base. As evidence of this shift of power in the ACC, the latest ACC expansions and travel rules favor the football schools over the traditional tobacco roads schools. There is a new sheriff in town in the ACC and FSU/Clemson is more in the driver's seat than UNC/Duke.

There are only 2 outcomes for the ACC now. Either it will lose its big football schools or it will lose its prestigious flagship state schools (or maybe both). The current power struggle insures status quo is not an option. The problem is the ACC has lost so much of the east coast market it cannot return as the east coast conference. IMO eventually UVA will realize they have a lot more in common with Michigan than Louisville and they will move to the BIG (the fact the BIG pays an extra $15 million per year is also a nice ancillary benefit).

Why is it the last to know they have lost power is always the group who formerly held power? Tobacco road will figure this out eventually and then move to the BIG

I am not sure why you are surprised the ACC is no longer UConn's dream conference. UConn is a large prestigious flagship public university which is looking to compete in all sports. Academic and athletic balance are the core of UConn's future vision. There is a conference which is composed of similar minded schools. It is called the BIG. And yes, that is where UConn, UVA, UNC and maybe even GT/VT belong.

Our friendly BC poster claimed what the ACC did to the BE is darwinism. I disagree. Darwinism is the survival of the fittest and that means the smartest. Wanting to become the east coast team was a reasonable vision. That is not what the ACC did. The ACC was stupid in its expansion and it will eventually come home to roost against them. That is Darwinsm...

I really hope some day UConn and UVA play each other as members of the BIG. That is where we both belong now. Thanks for visiting our board.

 

[The Funster]

Come on Billybud. FSU has been in the ACC for 25 years, and you don't know why the ACC is doing what it is doing and think this is a Swofford boondoggle. I come back after being away for almost a year to see what UConn fans think of all of this drama in the Big XII that could lead to a UConn invite, and instead I find this thread debating the motives and direction of the ACC.

The ACC is not a Southern Conference, and it doesn't ever intend to be a Southern Conference. It's an East Coast Conference. There are 7 private universities (Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, Duke, and Miami) along with three public universities that operate like private universities (Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech). All ten require high school students that want to go to college to pay very high tuition. Where do you get those? North of the Mason Dixon line and east of Ohio. It is no Swofford boondoggle that all ten of these universities want to regularly play athletic events on the road north of the mason dixon line and east of Ohio. And the remaining ACC schools (VT, NCSU,Clemson, FSU, and Louisville) are catching on from the others.

The ACC is a collection of universities. It is not a semi-pro football league. The questioning of Syracuse and Boston College is also surprising. Notre Dame's Father Jenkins direct quote, "We at Notre Dame have more alumni, more fans, and more support in New York and Massachusetts than in ALL of the midwest." Where do you think Syracuse and Boston College reside? As for the analysis of which states that the ACC owns. The combination of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Boston College owns New York and Massachusetts. There are no other FBS schools of consequence in either state. You could argue Notre Dame isn't in the ACC, but the ACC has more of them than any other league.

There are only 2 college football teams that drive major interest in the northeast, Notre Dame and Penn State. They both bring large non-alumni fan bases. Notre Dame owns New York and New England. Penn State owns Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland. There is a little crossover with Catholics in the Penn State territory and non Catholics in the ND territory. The rest of the schools in the Northeast are primarily supported by their alumni only.

UConn has done a nice job of becoming the team in Connecticut. That's why I always saw UConn as a good fit for the ACC. Most here don't want to be in the ACC, so I'm surprised there are still threads talking about the ACC. As I read through some of these threads today, there are hardly any ACC fans left on the Boneyard like there were before.

As for FSU playing Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech specifically wants to annually play Duke, Clemson, and North Carolina in that order before ever considering anyone else other than their annual rivalry with Georgia. They have an 83 game history with Duke, an 80 game history with Clemson, and a 50 game history with North Carolina. They only have a 24 game history with FSU. You could ask to swap divisions with Miami to get GT, but you'd lose Clemson. The ACC will not be doing North-South divisions because of the desire for everyone to play north and the northern schools to play south.

There are some inconsistencies in this post. You bring no hard data as to who "owns" New York and New England other than a quote from Father Jenkins. I'll not regurgitate the volumes of data which shows that UConn has it own strong claim to NY. NY has a fairly large number of schools who have alumni present and while I'll grant that ND has fans everywhere, no one "owns" NY. It could be said that the UConn could be the lynchpin to owning NY. If the B1G or ACC were to take us, either would cement it's hold on NY. If the Big 12 takes us they get an equal share of NY. Forget about NE. BC wanted to be NE's school and they failed miserably. They don't always carry Boston itself. Thank you for the pat on the head for becoming the team in CT but we are so much more and our influence will not stop spreading throughout the NY/NE region and beyond.

You say that the ACC is not a semipro football league and then you immediately focus on football as the main thrust of your post as if it had to be to make your point. Which is it? Is the ACC a football centric league or is it more diverse? And if it is more diverse why not focus on that? You can't go down that road because it begs the question why the ACC does not have its own network. Oh wait...

Initially you trumpet ND as "owning" NY and NE and yet they aren't even a full member of your conference. Even IF ND owned NY and NE in FB as you proclaim (and they don't although they have a strong NY presence) they aren't even a member of your conference for FB although they have loose agreement with the ACC. Talk about kissing your sister.

Look, there are appealing elements to UConn joining the ACC. It has some fantastic academic institutions. Renewing rivalries with BC, Cuse and Pitt would be interesting but I'm not sure they could ever be the same. BC is sliding into irrelevance, Syracuse and Pitt have peaked and, living out on islands, are tiny territorial fiefdoms. I'm leery of joining a conference that has ND as a partial member. Been there done that. You can claim agreements with them but they'll never come to fruition. ND only cares about ND. No network is the killer though. Still, if the ACC came calling I'd hold my nose and accept.

You could extol the virtues of the ACC but if the Big 12 gets a network and you don't? Good luck.

 

[SAMCRO]

Wow, the ACC water bearers and BC felaters are suddenly showing up across the Boneyard like Syrian refugees. Close the border Fishy, close the borders.

 

[btstimpy]

Your post is proving my point, the ACC has no strategic focus. It is a rutterless ship which is more interested in ramming other boats as opposed to actually getting somewhere. If Swofford had a vision for an "east coast" conference he failed to retain the teams he needed to hold the key markets.

First off, allow me to be the first Husky fan to challenged your assertion that ND, Syracuse, and BC own NYC. Certainly there is significant numbers of alumni of those schools in NYC but UConn and Rutgers are equally, if not more, important. If you doubt UConn's influence in NYC you need only re-watch the UConn/MSU NCAA tournament game in 2014 or any Big East tournament when we were a member. As numerous prior posts have discussed, many programs have strong alumni presence in NYC but to truly own the market, the ACC needed UConn and Rutgers. Instead the ACC let them walk away. How can the ACC be the east coast team if they do not own NYC, NJ, and Connecticut?

Fast forward to Maryland. Maryland/DC is a huge metro hubb on the east coast. Yet the ACC allowed the BIG to walk in and take them? If Swofford's vision was an "east coast league" the ACC could not afford to lose Connecticut, NYC, NJ, Maryland and Washington DC.

Bottom line is Swofford attempted to change the vision of the ACC. I am surprised you haven't already reached this conclusion but Billybud's posts show he certainly understands it. As football became the big money driver the ACC shifted more toward the south and its dominant football schools. Schools like FSU and Clemson became the focal point and expansion was made not to retain its east coast dominance but to improve its football pedigree particularly in the south (Louisville over UConn). The ACC attempted to directly challenge the SEC only the SEC has the better football programs, the better football region (the deep south) and a more purely football motivated fan base. As evidence of this shift of power in the ACC, the latest ACC expansions and travel rules favor the football schools over the traditional tobacco roads schools. There is a new sheriff in town in the ACC and FSU/Clemson is more in the driver's seat than UNC/Duke.

There are only 2 outcomes for the ACC now. Either it will lose its big football schools or it will lose its prestigious flagship state schools (or maybe both). The current power struggle insures status quo is not an option. The problem is the ACC has lost so much of the east coast market it cannot return as the east coast conference. IMO eventually UVA will realize they have a lot more in common with Michigan than Louisville and they will move to the BIG (the fact the BIG pays an extra $15 million per year is also a nice ancillary benefit).

Why is it the last to know they have lost power is always the group who formerly held power? Tobacco road will figure this out eventually and then move to the BIG

I am not sure why you are surprised the ACC is no longer UConn's dream conference. UConn is a large prestigious flagship public university which is looking to compete in all sports. Academic and athletic balance are the core of UConn's future vision. There is a conference which is composed of similar minded schools. It is called the BIG. And yes, that is where UConn, UVA, UNC and maybe even GT/VT belong.

Our friendly BC poster claimed what the ACC did to the BE is darwinism. I disagree. Darwinism is the survival of the fittest and that means the smartest. Wanting to become the east coast team was a reasonable vision. That is not what the ACC did. The ACC was stupid in its expansion and it will eventually come home to roost against them. That is Darwinsm...

I really hope some day UConn and UVA play each other as members of the BIG. That is where we both belong now. Thanks for visiting our board.

The Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league. Do so while continuing to compete athletically at the highest level. Donna Shalala taught the ACC this a long time ago. She specified New York and Massachusetts 15 years ago. Notre Dame also has specified the states of New York and Massachusetts. The ACC now has membership in New York and Massachusetts, It also has Miami and Notre Dame. That mission is accomplished. There are no other P5 schools in either state. The ACC owns New York and Massachusetts as well as can be owned in college sports.

Now I agree New York and Massachusetts is not the whole Northeast. Also note I did not say New York City. That is owned by the Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, and Rangers. College football doesn't exist there really. NYU and St. John's dropped the sport. Fordham and Columbia have it on a small scale. If New Yorkers deviate from the Jets and Giants to watch college football, they watch Notre Dame. College basketball is another story. There are a lot of teams popular there in basketball. UConn is definitely one that adds value.

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

 

[btstimpy]

There are some inconsistencies in this post. You bring no hard data as to who "owns" New York and New England other than a quote from Father Jenkins. I'll not regurgitate the volumes of data which shows that UConn has it own strong claim to NY. NY has a fairly large number of schools who have alumni present and while I'll grant that ND has fans everywhere, no one "owns" NY. It could be said that the UConn could be the lynchpin to owning NY. If the B1G or ACC were to take us, either would cement it's hold on NY. If the Big 12 takes us they get an equal share of NY. Forget about NE. BC wanted to be NE's school and they failed miserably. They don't always carry Boston itself. Thank you for the pat on the head for becoming the team in CT but we are so much more and our influence will not stop spreading throughout the NY/NE region and beyond.

You say that the ACC is not a semipro football league and then you immediately focus on football as the main thrust of your post as if it had to be to make your point. Which is it? Is the ACC a football centric league or is it more diverse? And if it is more diverse why not focus on that? You can't go down that road because it begs the question why the ACC does not have its own network. Oh wait...

Initially you trumpet ND as "owning" NY and NE and yet they aren't even a full member of your conference. Even IF ND owned NY and NE in FB as you proclaim (and they don't although they have a strong NY presence) they aren't even a member of your conference for FB although they have loose agreement with the ACC. Talk about kissing your sister.

Look, there are appealing elements to UConn joining the ACC. It has some fantastic academic institutions. Renewing rivalries with BC, Cuse and Pitt would be interesting but I'm not sure they could ever be the same. BC is sliding into irrelevance, Syracuse and Pitt have peaked and, living out on islands, are tiny territorial fiefdoms. I'm leery of joining a conference that has ND as a partial member. Been there done that. You can claim agreements with them but they'll never come to fruition. ND only cares about ND. No network is the killer though. Still, if the ACC came calling I'd hold my nose and accept.

You could extol the virtues of the ACC but if the Big 12 gets a network and you don't? Good luck.

Father Jenkins didn't say New England. He said Massachusetts. I say that the ACC owns the State of New York and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts because the ACC has the only P5 members in both, and the ACC has partial Notre Dame, who is very popular in both New York and Massachusetts. I know of no other school other than perhaps Penn State that can sell out every NFL Stadium in the northeast most every time they go to them without concern for who they are playing. Notre Dame isn't a full member of the ACC, but they play the ACC more than any other conference, and they don't play Big Ten very often. They did play UMass last year. Maybe they could play them in Gillette to see how they do.

I do believe UConn owns Connecticut. I think you would be a great addition to the ACC and have thought so for a while. Your renewed rivalries with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt would be great. They have not peaked. They all have great new coaches in football that look to be taking them in a positive direction. Rutgers has peaked. It can't even recruit the best talent in its home state. And you know better than I about the Rutgers-UConn men's basketball rivalry. I can't imagine wanting to renew that.

I do honestly hope UConn gets into the P5. I came back because it's looking like there is a real shot at the Big XII. I'm not worried about a Big XII network. They have zero presence in the ACC area other than perhaps WVU. If folks in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, and Iowa want a channel. Fine by me. I worry about ACC football powers competing with Big XII powers. Clemson crushing Oklahoma the last two years reduces that worry.

 

[dayooper]

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

Ummm . . . Notre Dame football is not part of the ACC. Why are you bringing them up? ND - Temple doesn't even include an ACC football program.

 

[dwalks93]

The Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league. Do so while continuing to compete athletically at the highest level. Donna Shalala taught the ACC this a long time ago. She specified New York and Massachusetts 15 years ago. Notre Dame also has specified the states of New York and Massachusetts. The ACC now has membership in New York and Massachusetts, It also has Miami and Notre Dame. That mission is accomplished. There are no other P5 schools in either state. The ACC owns New York and Massachusetts as well as can be owned in college sports.

Now I agree New York and Massachusetts is not the whole Northeast. Also note I did not say New York City. That is owned by the Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, and Rangers. College football doesn't exist there really. NYU and St. John's dropped the sport. Fordham and Columbia have it on a small scale. If New Yorkers deviate from the Jets and Giants to watch college football, they watch Notre Dame. College basketball is another story. There are a lot of teams popular there in basketball. UConn is definitely one that adds value.

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

You are clearly a smart guy but there is no way you can really think PSU owns PA, NJ, DE, and Maryland? There is a reason the BIG added Rutgers and Maryland and immediately the BIG profit went through the roof. We can argue "opinion" but I submit the BIG's last revenue increase shows PSU did not own NJ and Maryland. No one was buying the BIG network in Maryland till they added Maryland, ditto on Rutger. Having fans in a region is not the same as being able to sell a network in that region. The ACC has fans up and down the east coast but they could only sell a network in VA and NC...that is why there is no ACCN. While the BIG and SEC were playing chess the ACC was playing checkers.

Eventually UVA will realize the ACC teams they care about are being marginalized. The ACC as a tobacco road lead conference no longer exist. UVA wants to play UNC, Duke, VT and GT. When the BIG makes offers for those programs they will leave together and the ACC football powers and BE leftovers will be left to battle it out.

The ACC went another direction (football playing school in the south) and UConn has moved on. If the ACC was smart they would try to grab Cincy and UConn right now but the ACC football schools would never allow it. If you want to know who has the power you need only look at who has the veto authority...FSU/Clemson > UNC/Duke...game over

BTW conference realignment has nothing to do with winning. FSU/Clemson may be better football teams than Texas/Oklahoma but if the B12 gets a network and it pays significantly more than the ACC then they will leave. Follow the money, not the wins...

And here I thought this was a UConn board..

 

[dwalks93]

"The (ACC's) Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league."...

Ummm, the latest ACC addition was Louisville....checkmate

 

[WhartonHusky]

I think what is often lost in the discussion of New England/NY metro college football is not that the fan base support pro football, it's that there's not been a school that could rally support. Who knew that CT would become so passionate about college basketball -- mens and womens. It's the teams. It's the players. It's the stories. That's what drove the support and the passion. I remember watching UConn mens basketball in the field house at UConn.

I am a UConn alum, but have never been a big college football fan. I'd watch a bowl game or two on New Years -- but otherwise only if it was a #1 vs #2 type showdown. Then along came UConn football in the past 10 years. When they started to make noise, I started to pay attention. I went to 2-3 games/yr at the Rent. I watched 2-3 games/yr on TV. I was climbing on the bandwagon. Then they went downhill and I fell off.

Obviously we are not a blue blood in football, but I laugh when people outside the area talk about our lack of support. If Uconn were in ANY P5 conference, I'd probably have season tix. Even if we didn't achieve the success of the basketball programs, I feel strongly that there is an incredible amount of nascent support that could EASILY support a good football program and build on the success of basketball.

 

[billybud]

The Virginia fella doesn't seem to know that the ACC, like the SEC, was born of the Southern Conference...(not eastern).

The Southern Conference Charter members included UNC, Clemson, Duke, NC State, GT, Maryland and Wake Forest in addition to the teams now in the SEC.

It was a southern conference...and when it split into the SEC and the ACC....it was still southern (with Maryland being the northern border). True...most of the SEC teams were southwest of the Appalachians and many of the ACC teams were east of the appalachians...but all were considered to be southern.

The entire move to Cuse, Pitt, BC left the southern footprint. This "eastern conference" talk is only of late when the move was made to go northeast.

I, unabashedly, have never been a supporter of the ACC going north. But I guess all conferences are thinking of extra lebensraum (as HItler put it).

 

[Ldandy]

People are quoting Hitler Now? The FUQ is going on here? If that's the case maybe ESPN should play the role of Neville Chamberlin and cough up some territory Herr Delany wants to annex. That's if ESPN wants peace in our time. How's my 11th grade history Billybud?

 

[billybud]

People are quoting Hitler Now? The FUQ is going on here? If that's the case maybe ESPN should play the role of Neville Chamberlin and cough up some territory Herr Delany wants to annex. That's if ESPN wants peace in our time. How's my 11th grade history Billybud?

lebensraum....close fit for CR

additional territory considered by a nation, especially Nazi Germany, to be necessary for national survival or for the expansion of trade. 2. any additional space needed in order to act, function, etc.

 

[billybud]

If Delaney is cast in your allegory as Hitler, he would be served to remember that moving on two fronts may end with a pistol shot.

Just avoid a Leningrad in the cold, cold east.

 

[Fishy]

The parts of New York State that matter do not give a fig about Syracuse.

It's not a flag ship school and it's so freaking far away - the University of Maryland is closer to mid-town than Syracuse.

The ACC lost more territory than it gained in the recent expansion. Might explain the current state of the ACC Network.

 

[dwalks93]

Ummm, it was Stalingrad...apparently FSU wins football championships, not history contests

I just want to talk about UConn on the board, is that so wrong?....

 

[billybud]

Oh I know it was Stalingrad....a momentary 69 year old moment.

I kind of get the UConn argument about "delivering" New York. And Rutger's argument. And wonder what the media consultants say.

What do they say about Cincinnati, USF, etc.

A lot of back and forth on value...but most of us are guessing.

 

[Ldandy]

If Delaney is cast in your allegory as Hitler, he would be served to remember that moving on two fronts may end with a pistol shot.

Just avoid a Leningrad in the cold, cold east.

Leningrad? Nah he has no interest in annexing Syracuse.

 

[FDNY99]

Oh I know it was Stalingrad....a momentary 69 year old moment.

I kind of get the UConn argument about "delivering" New York. And Rutger's argument. And wonder what the media consultants say.

What do they say about Cincinnati, USF, etc.

A lot of back and forth on value...but most of us are guessing.

Nothing to kind of get...the ratings on SNY speak for themselves!

 

[pj]

Leningrad? Nah he has no interest in annexing Syracuse.

Don't be silly. Syracuse is snowier, colder, and less interested in football than Leningrad.

 

[btstimpy]

The Virginia fella doesn't seem to know that the ACC, like the SEC, was born of the Southern Conference...(not eastern).

The Southern Conference Charter members included UNC, Clemson, Duke, NC State, GT, Maryland and Wake Forest in addition to the teams now in the SEC.

It was a southern conference...and when it split into the SEC and the ACC....it was still southern (with Maryland being the northern border). True...most of the SEC teams were southwest of the Appalachians and many of the ACC teams were east of the appalachians...but all were considered to be southern.

The entire move to Cuse, Pitt, BC left the southern footprint. This "eastern conference" talk is only of late when the move was made to go northeast.

I, unabashedly, have never been a supporter of the ACC going north. But I guess all conferences are thinking of extra lebensraum (as HItler put it).

The Virginia fella also knows that 2016 isn't 1953. It isn't even 1983. Since 1953, a third demographic region has developed between the northeast and the southeast along the Atlantic Coast within the country, and it has been named the Mid-Atlantic Region. It is neither northeastern nor southern, and it has consumed everywhere from Central Pennsylvania and South Jersey down to Central North Carolina over the past 30 years.

Virginia hasn't been southern in 25 years. I remember when it was. Not today. And the part of North Carolina where the 4 ACC schools reside hasn't really been in 15 years. That's why you see SEC fans in western Carolina where you are. You wouldn't in the Research Triangle. And by the way, only 3 of the presidents of the 15 institutions of the ACC even grew up in southern states. And that's if you count Maryland and Kentucky as southern states.

I understand all of the history of the ACC and the Southern Conference, but today is not 1953. The ACC today is the collegiate athletic conference that encompasses the span on the Atlantic Coast from New England to the Northeast to the Mid Atlantic to the South Atlantic to Florida. Louisville is outside the region, but they are close enough to adapt. And they have.

 

[btstimpy]

"The (ACC's) Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league."...

Ummm, the latest ACC addition was Louisville....checkmate

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

 

[dwalks93]

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

You don't see any "deviations" on the horizon because it is impossible to predict what John Swofford is trying to do. In fact the best predicator of the ACC's future expansion strategy is to ask FSU/Clemson what they want...they have the influence in the ACC now.

If "the City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way" then the ACC has not felt the full effect of the upcoming Louisville prostitution scandal. It is only going to get worse and UL is an ACC baby now...regret is coming in a lot of ways

The ACC fans cannot continue to deflect their commissioner's mismanagement by arguing the B12 has screwed up worse. In a 5 man race I generally run against the #1 guy....not the #5 dude.

 

[btstimpy]

You are clearly a smart guy but there is no way you can really think PSU owns PA, NJ, DE, and Maryland? There is a reason the BIG added Rutgers and Maryland and immediately the BIG profit went through the roof. We can argue "opinion" but I submit the BIG's last revenue increase shows PSU did not own NJ and Maryland. No one was buying the BIG network in Maryland till they added Maryland, ditto on Rutger. Having fans in a region is not the same as being able to sell a network in that region. The ACC has fans up and down the east coast but they could only sell a network in VA and NC...that is why there is no ACCN. While the BIG and SEC were playing chess the ACC was playing checkers.

Eventually UVA will realize the ACC teams they care about are being marginalized. The ACC as a tobacco road lead conference no longer exist. UVA wants to play UNC, Duke, VT and GT. When the BIG makes offers for those programs they will leave together and the ACC football powers and BE leftovers will be left to battle it out.

The ACC went another direction (football playing school in the south) and UConn has moved on. If the ACC was smart they would try to grab Cincy and UConn right now but the ACC football schools would never allow it. If you want to know who has the power you need only look at who has the veto authority...FSU/Clemson > UNC/Duke...game over

BTW conference realignment has nothing to do with winning. FSU/Clemson may be better football teams than Texas/Oklahoma but if the B12 gets a network and it pays significantly more than the ACC then they will leave. Follow the money, not the wins...

And here I thought this was a UConn board..

Tell you what, you should go to a sports pub in Mt. Laurel, NJ or Cherry Hill, NJ and take a poll across a crowded room during live sports to find out how many people there follow college football. You'll find less than 20%, and those you find ask who their team is. You'll hear Penn State or Notre Dame. You won't hear another name unless it is from someone from out of town.

Do the Same in Baltimore or Annapolis, MD. You'll get the exact same answers. If it's cold enough you'll see those hats in the room that look like the Nittany Lion on someone's head.

During college basketball season, you'll get a different response more positive, and many schools will be named. But I'm talking football in this example.

The Big Ten added Maryland and Rutgers to keep Penn State happy. Penn State is one of the only 2 major players in the east. The Big Ten didn't want to lose them. That fleecing of cable subscribers in those 2 states is temporary until the cord cutters prevail. Then it will just be Penn State with its two play toys. When Penn State gets tired of those play toys, we'll see what happens.

This was the case when the ACC had Maryland BTW. That's why they struggle to have a solvent athletic department.

 

[btstimpy]

You don't see any "deviations" on the horizon because it is impossible to predict what John Swofford is trying to do. In fact the best predicator of the ACC's future expansion strategy is to ask FSU/Clemson what they want...they have the influence in the ACC now.

If "the City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way" then the ACC has not felt the full effect of the upcoming Louisville prostitution scandal. It is only going to get worse and UL is an ACC baby now...regret is coming in a lot of ways

The ACC fans cannot continue to deflect their commissioner's mismanagement by arguing the B12 has screwed up worse. In a 5 man race I generally run against the #1 guy....not the #5 dude.

The Louisville prostitution scandal doesn't bother me in the least. College football recruiting has been using young women to recruit football players going back before Bear Bryant at Alabama. I like the idea of actually seeing someone hire professionals rather than pimping their coeds. It goes on everywhere, and it's a shame Louisville is a scape goat.

 

[btstimpy]

Ummm . . . Notre Dame football is not part of the ACC. Why are you bringing them up? ND - Temple doesn't even include an ACC football program.

I bring it up because I look an UVA's schedule and see Notre Dame on it more in the next ten years than I see NC State. I look at ND's schedule for the next 10 years and see 50 ACC games. I can't help but to see them part of our seasons for a long time.

 

[dwalks93]

You are not getting it. The BIG added Maryland and Rutgers to sell cable boxes and form a permanent east coast presence. This is why the BIG is making way more than the ACC. The BIG network changes the financial dynamics and regions become more important.

So the BIG expanded to keep PSU happy cause they didn't want to lose them? Ummm, where was PSU going...Answer, no where, the BIG is the top conference in the north. PSU may have a ton of fans in NJ who want to see them play there but the BIG was not paying $35 million + a year to Rutgers for that...Rutgers made the BIG money and allowed further east coast access

Dudes in a bar cheering for their team does not equate to owning a region. I'll take the BIG financial analysts over the ACC bar survey.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Tell you what, you should go to a sports pub in Mt. Laurel, NJ or Cherry Hill, NJ and take a poll across a crowded room during live sports to find out how many people there follow college football. You'll find less than 20%, and those you find ask who their team is. You'll hear Penn State or Notre Dame. You won't hear another name unless it is from someone from out of town.

Do the Same in Baltimore or Annapolis, MD. You'll get the exact same answers. If it's cold enough you'll see those hats in the room that look like the Nittany Lion on someone's head.

During college basketball season, you'll get a different response more positive, and many schools will be named. But I'm talking football in this example.

The Big Ten added Maryland and Rutgers to keep Penn State happy. Penn State is one of the only 2 major players in the east. The Big Ten didn't want to lose them. That fleecing of cable subscribers in those 2 states is temporary until the cord cutters prevail. Then it will just be Penn State with its two play toys. When Penn State gets tired of those play toys, we'll see what happens.

This was the case when the ACC had Maryland BTW. That's why they struggle to have a solvent athletic department.

I've lived and worked in Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill. ND wasn't discussed. It was Penn State and Rutgers was distant second. Never ND.

I went to school in College Park. ND was never discussed. Maryland mostly and then Navy. Never ND.

 

[Pat125]

The Louisville prostitution scandal doesn't bother me in the least. College football recruiting has been using young women to recruit football players going back before Bear Bryant at Alabama. I like the idea of actually seeing someone hire professionals rather than pimping their coeds. It goes on everywhere, and it's a shame Louisville is a scape goat.

Interesting. I'm still trying to find out which of the two practices is more disgusting and reprehensible. I'm going to go out on a limb that Dr. Sullivan would be genuinely surprised and appalled if that was happening on her campus.

 

[Orkney]

Even if we didn't achieve the success of the basketball programs, I feel strongly that there is an incredible amount of nascent support that could EASILY support a good football program and build on the success of basketball.

Like Indiana? Like Kansas? Like Kentucky?