Kortney Dunbar ('14) commits to Tennessee

[Paul1969]

So Saniya Chong is just underrated because UConn got her. Tennessee gets someone outside the Top 50 and she is not going to make an impact and practically a useless recruit. You guys can be overconfident all you want about this National Championship, but don't whine when Meighan Simmons leads the Lady Vols past UConn in the NC game against UConn in Bridgestone aka Thompson Boling West.

 

[vtcwbuff]

WTH? I go off grid for a couple of days only to come back to a monster BY thread, 150+ posts long, all about some semi obscure recruit committing to some semi obscure program. To paraphrase Jimmy Buffet - the obsession plumb escapes me.

Crap - I just realized that I extended the thread.

 

[AllHusky529]

I believe what's being missed is that MS' statistical "improvement is coming at the expense of her teams success...and I'd venture further to say an "improving" MS does not result and has not resulted in Tenn success. Sorry, but all the statistical spin in the world can't change that glaring fact.

 

[latione2009]

Sorry haven't posted in forever been busy with college/life

In 2014 Tennessee will have(hopefully if all stay healthy) a pretty darn good team:
Massengale/Middleton
Carter/Reynolds
Burdick/Jones/Dunbar
Graves/Moore
Harrison/Russell

That is a team that should compete no they aren't UCONN but the difference I see in that team is that those players look like hustle neversaydie players even Dunbar who knows how good she may be. But after watching videos of her she seems like a good player not the face of a program but a player who will come in and do her job. If she can become half of the potential of Spani then she will be a good player. IMHO we will see a UCONN vs UT matchup sooner than we expect.

 

[doggydaddy]

the difference I see in that team is that those players look like hustle neversaydie players

I am pretty sure that I read posts like this when the Stricklen/Johnson class graduated without a final four berth.

So, which players not on your list from past teams didn't hustle or have a never say die attitude?

Do you realize how insulting you are being to those players?

And how do you know the new players are like that?

Maybe the problem is the institution and not the players?

 

[latione2009]

I am pretty sure that I read posts like this when the Stricklen/Johnson class graduated without a final four berth.

So, which players not on your list from past teams didn't hustle or have a never say die attitude?

Do you realize how insulting you are being to those players?

And how do you know the new players are like that?

Maybe the problem is the institution and not the players?

Stricklen IMO was superstar potential without the attitude she was talent wise one of the best all around players but there always seemed to be something missing. Johnson was great period.
Baugh was injured her entire career so I guess it isn't fair to her Manning wasn't used the way she could/should have been IMO so yeah institution wise there's a problem there because she always seemed like a player fighting until the buzzer sounded. Cain was injured but we saw glimpses of her potential and why she was signed in the first place

I wasn't trying to slight the other players just saying the group I see looks like a group of players who will leave their heart on the floor they may not have the most talent but they look scrappy.

 

[meyers7]

Keep it coming...... LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

Haters are my motivators

Really? That's pretty sad.

 

[Bestiarius]

I wasn't trying to slight the other players just saying the group I see looks like a group of players who will leave their heart on the floor they may not have the most talent but they look scrappy....so yeah institution wise there's a problem.

IMO wishful thinking. No games have been played yet so what evidence is there of exceptional character or any change from the recent past?

Glad you agree there is a systemic problem. In the interviews with Holly, what I see is a nice lady, a pal, not someone who will be getting the best from her players. Her game management also leaves much to be desired. Couple this with all the administration turmoil and lack of support, I don't see much to support your opinion.

 

[meyers7]

Still Tennessee and will always be Tennessee
Holly's itching for her first real real soon.

She should probably get some cream or something for that. That "itch" might be around for awhile.

 

[meyers7]

.
I read the Summitt daily

You poor miserable soul. This man (horse) should be pitied above all others.

 

[doggydaddy]

Stricklen IMO was superstar potential without the attitude she was talent wise one of the best all around players but there always seemed to be something missing. Johnson was great period.
Baugh was injured her entire career so I guess it isn't fair to her Manning wasn't used the way she could/should have been IMO so yeah institution wise there's a problem there because she always seemed like a player fighting until the buzzer sounded. Cain was injured but we saw glimpses of her potential and why she was signed in the first place

I wasn't trying to slight the other players just saying the group I see looks like a group of players who will leave their heart on the floor they may not have the most talent but they look scrappy.

So, basically, you are talking about Stricklen? There were times she didn't hustle or had a problem with her teammates. I clearly remember her scowling at Simmons for her shot selection.

You weren't trying to slight the other player? I'm sure it wasn't intentional. You seem like a nice person.

But that is what you did when you said it would be different than it was in regards to hustle and ne'er say die players.

I'll point you to their last three loses. WatchESPN has all three on video. If you watch, you will see how little offense these Tennessee teams play. They can beat most of their opponents with just having more talent. But they haven't been able to beat the top teams in a neutral or road environment.

 

[ciarlante]

I would urge caution in putting too much clout in these so called "ratings". Everybody and their brother does a rating these days and guess what? if a player pays to go the recruiting services camp/showcase they get a higher rating.. and if someone else doesn't pay or go to their camp/showcase event they are not rated that high (or at all)..it has become a very unscrupulous business with a lot of shady practices.. also these ratings are in most part based on athleticism and "potential" and do not evaluate enough the team components like IQ, work ethic, character, passing/rebounding, team D, etc..it's all about the flashy one on one stuff..like a dunking contest..

 

[latione2009]

So, basically, you are talking about Stricklen? There were times she didn't hustle or had a problem with her teammates. I clearly remember her scowling at Simmons for her shot selection.

You weren't trying to slight the other player? I'm sure it wasn't intentional. You seem like a nice person.

But that is what you did when you said it would be different than it was in regards to hustle and ne'er say die players.

I'll point you to their last three loses. WatchESPN has all three on video. If you watch, you will see how little offense these Tennessee teams play. They can beat most of their opponents with just having more talent. But they haven't been able to beat the top teams in a neutral or road environment.

Honestly, yes Stricklen was a big disappointment in my eyes because it looked as though she never truly wanted to be the leader of the team. Spani tried to be the leader last year and I think she did a pretty good job. Tennessee right now doesn't have a go to player who can lead them when things are tough. They have to learn to play complete team ball because not one of them has completely shown they can take over a game consistently.

 

[EricLA]

Honestly, yes Stricklen was a big disappointment in my eyes because it looked as though she never truly wanted to be the leader of the team. Spani tried to be the leader last year and I think she did a pretty good job. Tennessee right now doesn't have a go to player who can lead them when things are tough. They have to learn to play complete team ball because not one of them has completely shown they can take over a game consistently.

Nothing wrong with that. Very few teams have a Taurasi, Pondexter, Parker, Moore, KML, Ogwimike, Griner, Stewart, Thomas, etc. Russell is the first uber elite recruit Tennessee has landed since Parker. But generally centers don't "take over games" which is why I left Tina Charles off my list above.

That isn't to say Tennessee hasn't had talented teams. They've gotten a plethora of top 10 kids since the Parker years. Bjorkland, Baugh, Cain, Stricklen, Gray, Johnson, Burdick, Massengale, Graves, Tucker and Russell. But the uber elite take over game types have eluded Tennessee. And I doubt Russell will be one of those either as more often than not she won't have the ball in her hands to be able to take over a game, even if she turns out to be Tina Charles great.

 

[Alydar]

You poor miserable soul. This man (horse) should be pitied above all others.

.
Pitied? Not at all. The Summitt can be quite entertaining. There is a cadre of posters that have become a parody of themselves. Unintended humor is the best kind.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yes, who will take the leadership reins in KVille this year? I agree that Spani did a fairly good job last year..... but was unable to get the entire team rowing in the right direction from the 6-8 games I saw them play..... Not Massengale , not Simmons..... what about one of the post players....Graves or Burdick.... do they have it in them..... because this is a big slice of what the LVs need IMHO

 

[UConnCat]

I would urge caution in putting too much clout in these so called "ratings". Everybody and their brother does a rating these days and guess what? if a player pays to go the recruiting services camp/showcase they get a higher rating.. and if someone else doesn't pay or go to their camp/showcase event they are not rated that high (or at all)..it has become a very unscrupulous business with a lot of shady practices.. also these ratings are in most part based on athleticism and "potential" and do not evaluate enough the team components like IQ, work ethic, character, passing/rebounding, team D, etc..it's all about the flashy one on one stuff..like a dunking contest..

Sounds like an accurate assessment of how these businesses operate. Thanks.

 

[diggerfoot]

This thread has received so much input I figure "what the heck, I'll throw my uninformed two cents in."

At one time both UConn and Tennessee backed off of Massengale. Then Tennessee jumped back in. Using that little nugget I'll extrapolate wildly, because that's what us fans do . I think towards the end of Summitt's career she was pursuing talent and athleticism without much of a plan behind it. Maybe that's the way she always recruited, but she was once able to mold them the way she wanted. Whether or not that was once true, it was not towards the end of her career. Thus Tennessee was "stuck" with highly ranked talent and athleticism but were missing some of the ingredients mentioned in ciarlante's excellent post. Injuries compounded the problem, but the problem that latione referred to exists aside from the injuries.

Some people fault Auriemma for going after too few recruits, but there is no doubt he is much more deliberate about it than Tennessee has been in recent years. We'll see if Warlick turns that around.

 

[UcMiami]

Wow - quite a thread with a nice mixture of analysis and vitriol! Might as well add my two cents:
On rankings - WBB rating services suffer from the same thing that WBB suffers from - a lack of money and support. So they are woefully understaffed and have to depend on a few big gatherings of AAU and HS teams each year to do their research as they cannot afford either the regional staffs or the travel to really scout the HS/non-national AAU field. In addition they are dealing with players who are still maturing physically and mentally so dramatic changes in their games can take place from year to year and often within an even shorter period. (NB - I grew 5 inches in the space of 6 months in my teens.) And in a team game coaching, teammates, and opponents can greatly effect an evaluation taken from a game or over the course of a tournament. So while the highest profile players each year are probably evaluated quite well, the drop off can be dramatic for players in terms of visibility and evaluation material. A player like Chung is a problem, and the non-eyes on evaluation of box scores/stats for her can easily be discounted based on 'competition she faced'.
There is one other evaluation that is available - USA basketball trial invitations and team selections - that can sometimes provide another clue, but is fraught with all the same problems and also does not 'rank' the players.
On recruiting - definitely there usually is a divide between the very top of any class (1-3 players) and the next group, and probably a second and third divide somewhere around 20 and again around 50 but knowing where those divides fall each year and adding in all the problems inherent in rankings they become more and more meaningless the further out you go. The same kind of issues can be seen in the draft process in all professional sports and there you have a much smaller pool of talent to evaluate at much more mature points in their development and much greater resources to devote and you still get a lot really bad choices being made by GMs.
On TN specifically - I thought there was actually some (for TN fans) really positive progress made last year in the limited game action I saw. I thought there was better definition of roles, better communication at both ends, and a more cohesive team and some of that should be credited to Holly, or at least to the resolution of the coaching mess that came before. They have some good talent (LOVE Graves) and if Holly can continue to improve their team play the outlook should be good ... but it is early days in a tough transition within an athletic department that has had some serious stumbles so it may not be all smooth sailing.
On our Visitors - I really enjoy having outside fans active on this board and find the analysis and perspective to be a real benefit and the humor that some bring is really appreciated (Triad - thinking of you specifically.) And there is a huge difference between a poster like tnvolfan65 brings which is reasoned analysis and argument vs. what some others bring which is statements, vitriol, petulance, with a little denigration of our team and or our hallowed longtime posters thrown in.

So - that was a little longer than intended but I think I got my moneys worth! Who says pennies have no value any more!

 

[meyers7]

Who says pennies have no value any more!

Canada.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ncy-20130205_1_penny-royal-canadian-mint-coin

 

[UcMiami]

This thread has received so much input I figure "what the heck, I'll throw my uninformed two cents in."

At one time both UConn and Tennessee backed off of Massengale. Then Tennessee jumped back in. Using that little nugget I'll extrapolate wildly, because that's what us fans do . I think towards the end of Summitt's career she was pursuing talent and athleticism without much of a plan behind it. Maybe that's the way she always recruited, but she was once able to mold them the way she wanted. Whether or not that was once true, it was not towards the end of her career. Thus Tennessee was "stuck" with highly ranked talent and athleticism but were missing some of the ingredients mentioned in ciarlante's excellent post. Injuries compounded the problem, but the problem that latione referred to exists aside from the injuries.

Some people fault Auriemma for going after too few recruits, but there is no doubt he is much more deliberate about it than Tennessee has been in recent years. We'll see if Warlick turns that around.

You got value for your pennies too. I think that is a valid point regarding Pat's recruiting philosophy and I think it stretched back to at least the 1990s. To her credit, I do not think she ever 'suggested' that a player might be better off elsewhere, or told a verbal commit the same. (And I think the frequency of player transfers has picked up in recent years perhaps because there are now more teams taking WCBB seriously and therefore more real option.) I have frequently felt that TN teams had real log-jams at certain positions (usually F/P) which stunted the development of some highly recruited players at the same time that other positions were starved. Massengale and her guaranteed starting PG spot smelled a little desperate, and Bobbitt (who was a great pick up from JC) is perhaps another example of a failure of HS recruiting balance.

 

[Tonyc]

So Saniya Chong is just underrated because UConn got her. Tennessee gets someone outside the Top 50 and she is not going to make an impact and practically a useless recruit. You guys can be overconfident all you want about this National Championship, but don't whine when Meighan Simmons leads the Lady Vols past UConn in the NC game against UConn in Bridgestone aka Thompson Boling West.

Saniya Chong was POY and ranked outside the top 25. There isn't a team in WCBB that will beat a healthy UConn this season. My only fear if we face Tenn in Tenn in the Final 4 is that the clock doesn't start, or doesn't stop, or there is a call with .0002 seconds left or Tenn goes to the line 45 times and UConn gets there 10???????? Just bringing back memories....or should I call them nightmares.

 

[Tonyc]

WHY YOU MAD? ........WHAT ARE YOU MAD ABOUT?.......

Well jscott Ithink the LVs will be attending the FF. I will save them a seat behind me. LOL

 

[slimmer56]

utenn had better lookout for Vandy first.

 

[triaddukefan]

On our Visitors - I really enjoy having outside fans active on this board and find the analysis and perspective to be a real benefit and the humor that some bring is really appreciated (Triad - thinking of you specifically.) And there is a huge difference between a poster like tnvolfan65 brings which is reasoned analysis and argument vs. what some others bring which is statements, vitriol, petulance, with a little denigration of our team and or our hallowed longtime posters thrown in.
!