Knight Commission

[superjohn]

Two things can be true at once.

Is the women's tournament as valuable as the men's tournament? No

Is the women's tournament undervalued by the NCAA? Yes

If the women's tournament were to go to market as a standalone property and not tied to the remaining championships, it would certainly return a profit.

I'm all for having them do that and then they can spread their profits out accordingly to their teams.

 

[HuskyNan]

I dunno man. I think women's basketball truly does have significantly less mass appeal to today's society than men's basketball. Is a lot of that because of misogyny and the historical relegation of women to certain roles? Personally, I say hell yes. But to imply that, given the same amount of advertising and hype, the women's tournament would be anywhere near as profitable as the men's tournament seems wildly naïve.

That's not to say I'm not for measures that encourage gender equity in college sports. I just don't think we need to argue about the relative marketability of the various sports to have that discussion.

The 4.85 million viewers tuning in across ESPN networks Sunday was the most-watched cable program of the day, an audience increase of 18 percent year-over-year and 30 percent from 2019. The matchup peaked from 10-10:15 p.m. ET with 5.91 million viewers across ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU, as South Carolina captured its second national title during ESPN’s MegaCast presentation.

2022 NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Championship is Most-Watched Season Finale in Nearly Two Decades – 4.85 Million Viewers on ESPN Networks

South Carolina’s wire-to-wire victory in the 2022 NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Championship scored 4.85 million viewers Sunday night..

espnpressroom.com

UConn's 2OT win most-watched women's Elite Eight game in 16 years

For the second-straight year, a UConn epic in the Elite Eight delivered one of ESPN's best-ever Women's NCAA Tournament audiences.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

The UConn women were one of the best draws in

 

[superjohn]

The 4.85 million viewers tuning in across ESPN networks Sunday was the most-watched cable program of the day, an audience increase of 18 percent year-over-year and 30 percent from 2019. The matchup peaked from 10-10:15 p.m. ET with 5.91 million viewers across ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU, as South Carolina captured its second national title during ESPN’s MegaCast presentation.

2022 NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Championship is Most-Watched Season Finale in Nearly Two Decades – 4.85 Million Viewers on ESPN Networks

South Carolina’s wire-to-wire victory in the 2022 NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Championship scored 4.85 million viewers Sunday night..

espnpressroom.com

UConn's 2OT win most-watched women's Elite Eight game in 16 years

For the second-straight year, a UConn epic in the Elite Eight delivered one of ESPN's best-ever Women's NCAA Tournament audiences.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

The UConn women were one of the best draws in

That's a great # for them and whatever revenue generated should go the women's basketball teams.

 

[upstater]

Is there any profit? I would think they lose money. As far as I know the only NCAA sports that are profitable are football and men’s basketball. I’m sure the UConn women’s team is an exception, but I believe overall college sports bleed money.

I think you're confusing what is profitable for the schools with what is profitable for the NCAA. Two different things.

NCAA Women's Tournament TV rights could have different look

The NCAA Women’s Basketball Tournament reported strong viewership numbers this week

www.usatoday.com

This article shows that ESPN pays $34m for 29 games. ESPN quickly sold out its advertising allotments. But this deal was negotiated in 2011. The Knight Commission has received an analysis of the tournament that values it at $100m.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, respectfully disagree. There is a whole lot of speculation in that report. It’s been discussed ad nauseam, but, the fair market value for women’s basketball has been established by the market. It is the price that ESPN pays CBS for the rights. The fact that someone “imagines“ that the woman’s tournament can make more really doesn’t change that. For what it’s worth, I’ve read the underlined report and it is “speculative“ at best.

That said, on a go forward basis, I’d suggest the same “profit“ sharing rules be applied to both the men’s and women’s tournament. Further, I would suggest that the rates be sold separately, and not as a bundle with the men’s basketball rights. In that way the value of the rights can be agreed-upon, as key in the expenses of the tournaments and whether or not there is a net profit.

The $34m per year was signed in 2011. Sounds like a bad contract that went way too long. For 29 games? They make $40m+ on ticket sales to the tourney. That's $74m.

The cost of renting an arena seems negligible for 29 games. Just $5k to $20k as I looked for NCAA tourney arena rental fees. Some places charge $1 to get the foot traffic in town.

 

[upstater]

The same reason the schools in the Cross Country and Rifle championships aren't awarded money, they don't bring any money into the NCAA.

Huh--I didn't know rifle was televised on national TV, that it made tens of millions in ticket sales and tens of millions in TV fees.

 

[upstater]

The argument here that this is a women's sports concern is strange in that this is a UConn board and IF there were a payout for women's tournaments, UConn would stand to gain more than a great many schools in the country.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think not hyping up the women's tournament as much as the men's is why fewer people watch it and not calling it March Madness plays into that.

Really, that’s why. So by your theory, regular season mens and womens basketball would both be generating the same amount of revenue?

 

[superjohn]

Huh--I didn't know rifle was televised on national TV, that it made tens of millions in ticket sales and tens of millions in TV fees.

It probably loses the same amount or less money than women's basketball does for the NCAA. I certainly wouldn't expect people to think they should get the same amount of payout as men's basketball does considering men's basketball brings in around $1 billion for the NCAA.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I think you're confusing what is profitable for the schools with what is profitable for the NCAA. Two different things.

Other than perhaps travel allowances (and negotiating costs) I'm not sure what expenses are incurred by the NCAA for any tournament televised by a third party.

What the NCAA should have been doing all along is disburse some amount (similar in percentage across all sports) of the profits of all television revenues from championship tournaments to the participants utilizing some uniform formula.

ESPN provides broadcasts of NCAA championships for lacrosse, baseball, softball, men's & women's (limited) ice hockey and likely many other sports that I haven't named. If the NCAA is pocketing the money they receive for these broadcast rights and only distributing portions for the men's basketball tournament they are idiotic as even if this does distribute more funds than a model that would isolate each sport, there is no means to demonstrate that the distributions are in any way equitable.

 

[pj]

Agree completely! In prior years, I didn’t watch the women’s tournaments at all because I was confused that it wasn’t called March madness.

Me too. I used to not watch the women's tournament because it wasn't called March madness. Now I don't watch because it's women's basketball.

 

[NJHusky]

You are very close to seeing the point that I'm making

And if they did raise the prices what would the attendance be?

 

[Peacefrog]

And if they did raise the prices what would the attendance be?

The entire fan base is on a fixed income.

 

[CL82]

The $34m per year was signed in 2011. Sounds like a bad contract that went way too long. For 29 games? They make $40m+ on ticket sales to the tourney. That's $74m.

The cost of renting an arena seems negligible for 29 games. Just $5k to $20k as I looked for NCAA tourney arena rental fees. Some places charge $1 to get the foot traffic in town.

Don’t we pay 40,000+ for the XL Center for regular season games?

 

[upstater]

Don’t we pay 40,000+ for the XL Center for regular season games?

Are you serious? Wow. Because I just searched around the country for arena fees for the games and I found $5k to $15k. WOWOWOWOW

 

[upstater]

Other than perhaps travel allowances (and negotiating costs) I'm not sure what expenses are incurred by the NCAA for any tournament televised by a third party.

What the NCAA should have been doing all along is disburse some amount (similar in percentage across all sports) of the profits of all television revenues from championship tournaments to the participants utilizing some uniform formula.

ESPN provides broadcasts of NCAA championships for lacrosse, baseball, softball, men's & women's (limited) ice hockey and likely many other sports that I haven't named. If the NCAA is pocketing the money they receive for these broadcast rights and only distributing portions for the men's basketball tournament they are idiotic as even if this does distribute more funds than a model that would isolate each sport, there is no means to demonstrate that the distributions are in any way equitable.

Exactly!!!!

 

[upstater]

It probably loses the same amount or less money than women's basketball does for the NCAA. I certainly wouldn't expect people to think they should get the same amount of payout as men's basketball does considering men's basketball brings in around $1 billion for the NCAA.

What do you think are the expenses?

Please tell me how or why the NCAA pays out $100m for the women's tourney

 

[CL82]

Are you serious? Wow. Because I just searched around the country for arena fees for the games and I found $5k to $15k. WOWOWOWOW

Yep. Except it’s not just 40,000…

It’s a ridiculous number. Sometimes I think people here react to any criticism of the XL Center lease with a mindset of “I’m not driving another 30 minutes to Storrs, it’s inconvenient…“ which is fair, but doesn’t address the fact that the economics of our lease is absolutely ridiculous. It is designed solely to hide the considerable losses the CDRA incurs. When people talk about the fact that the athletic department runs at a multi million dollar loss, a lot of that is being driven by the cost of ‘renting’ a state owned facility at an above market rate.

 

[upstater]

Yep. Except it’s not just 40,000…
View attachment 76456
It’s a ridiculous number. Sometimes I think people here react to any criticism of the XL Center lease with a mindset of “I’m not driving another 30 minutes to Storrs, it’s inconvenient…“ which is fair, but doesn’t address the fact that the economics of our lease is absolutely ridiculous. It is designed solely to hide the considerable losses the CDRA incurs. When people talk about the fact that the athletic department runs at a multi million dollar loss, a lot of that is being driven by the cost of ‘renting’ a state owned facility at an above market rate.

It's definitely above market. But I'm assuming there's political support for forcing UConn to endure this.

 

[CL82]

It's definitely above market. But I'm assuming there's political support for forcing UConn to endure this.

That’s the mythology of it. I’m not sure how much of that is real and how much of it is a product of “the way things are is the way they will always be“ mentality.

 

[Rico444]

That’s the mythology of it. I’m not sure how much of that is real and how much of it is a product of “the way things are is the way they will always be“ mentality.

I'm not convinced that is enough of a reason for them to continue to agree to this horrible deal. My guess is political pressure, but who knows.

 

[superjohn]

What do you think are the expenses?

Please tell me how or why the NCAA pays out $100m for the women's tourney

It's my understanding the NCAA pays out 0 dollars for the women's tournament.

 

[CL82]

I'm not convinced that is enough of a reason for them to continue to agree to this horrible deal. My guess is political pressure, but who knows.

Yeah, that is the default to answer, but it begs the question political pressure by whom against whom? I think it would be an extraordinarily difficult position to defend, especially if UConn came back and said we’d like to play at the Civic Center but we can’t afford it. We would be love to keep playing there if it were at fair lease rates.

I feel fairly confident in assuming that the Wolfpack is not paying $40,000, plus a $20-$30,000 additional fee, plus an additional per seat charge. It becomes an extraordinarily unsupportable argument to charge a private entity only a tiny fraction of what Connecticut taxpayers are being charged.

 

[Rico444]

Yeah, that is the default to answer, but it begs the question political pressure by whom against whom? I think it would be an extraordinarily difficult position to defend, especially if UConn came back and said we’d like to play at the Civic Center but we can’t afford it. We would be love to keep playing there if it were at fair lease rates.

I feel fairly confident in assuming that the Wolfpack is not paying $40,000, plus a $20-$30,000 additional fee, plus an additional per seat charge. It becomes an extraordinarily unsupportable argument to charge a private entity only a tiny fraction of what Connecticut taxpayers are being charged.

My best guess is that Connecticut politicians want UConn basketball in Hartford for a number of reasons, and the XL is the only game in town so they're held over a barrel. The owners of the Wolfpack would likely move the franchise if they had to pay such exorbitant fees; they have no loyalty to Hartford.

 

[upstater]

It's my understanding the NCAA pays out 0 dollars for the women's tournament.

Well, there you go...

If they have no expenses for it, they make $34m from TV (soon to rise to $100m because the deal was made in 2011 and the new estimates are for $100m because of the gains in popularity, and then they make 2x or 3x that in ticket sales. Average ticket for the F4 alone is $600. Multiply that x 18k x 3 games: $32m