Knight Commission

[CL82]

I was going for @Deepster , but @Palatine will do.

You are probably right. I couldn’t remember which of them for which this was a hot button issue.

 

[BlueMAB]

Because they don't equally bring in revenue, one sport brings in around a billion dollars while other sports lose money for the NCAA.

But they are non-profit, tax-exempt entities that exist for the greater good (which is why they enjoy their tax-exempt status).

Why shouldn't entities that enjoy their tax-exempt status for the greater good, actually behave in a manner that supports the greater good?

 

[BlueMAB]

Please move this thread to the women's board.

Or don't click on a threat that doesn't interest you.

The article discusses racial disparities as well. Should we create and move this to a segregated board so you can remain comfortable?

 

[MexicoHusky]

It's not completely absurd to redistribute the income to teams that participate in a tournament that does not turn a profit.

For example, my company (and virtually all large corporations) provide a year-end bonus. They don't ask which division you work for and how much profit you made for the company in the previous year. Bonuses are paid based on company performance, your individual salary grade and to some degree your individual performance rating. The performance rating has little connection to company profit.

Think of the teams and tournaments that don't turn a profit as an overhead department. They still get an annual bonus.

 

[superjohn]

Or don't click on a threat that doesn't interest you.

The article discusses racial disparities as well. Should we create and move this to a segregated board so you can remain comfortable?

It was a joke and a good one at that.

 

[superjohn]

But they are non-profit, tax-exempt entities that exist for the greater good (which is why they enjoy their tax-exempt status).

Why shouldn't entities that enjoy their tax-exempt status for the greater good, actually behave in a manner that supports the greater good?

You need money for it to operate? The NCAA only really makes money from the men's basketball tournament. That tournament is the greater good, it's what funds women's basketball and every other sport which loses money. You want women's basketball and all the other non-revenue generating sports to get the same pay as men's basketball? Sam Houston's bowling team should get the same payout as North Carolina men's basketball?

 

[NJHusky]

I think not hyping up the women's tournament as much as the men's is why fewer people watch it and not calling it March Madness plays into that.

If there is such parity why doesn’t UConn charge the same for tickets to the women’s team?? They are stupidly leaving $$ on the table. They should raise women’s ticket prices ASAP or cut the men’s tickets to match the women’s prices

 

[8893]

Or don't click on a threat that doesn't interest you.

The article discusses racial disparities as well. Should we create and move this to a segregated board so you can remain comfortable?

 

[phillionaire]

If there is such parity why doesn’t UConn charge the same for tickets to the women’s team?? They are stupidly leaving $$ on the table. They should raise women’s ticket prices ASAP or cut the men’s tickets to match the women’s prices

You are very close to seeing the point that I'm making

 

[BlueMAB]

You need money for it to operate? The NCAA only really makes money from the men's basketball tournament. That tournament is the greater good, it's what funds women's basketball and every other sport which loses money. You want women's basketball and all the other non-revenue generating sports to get the same pay as men's basketball? Sam Houston's bowling team should get the same payout as North Carolina men's basketball?

No, the tournament is not the greater good. The schools don't exist for the tournament, the tournament exists for the schools. I'm asking why schools shouldn't receive an equal payout.

You're saying Depaul men's basketball, with their 1 NCAA tournament win in the last 30+ years, deserves to get paid more because Nova won a national championship?

The NCAA already considers academic performance and how many sports the schools sponsor when splitting up the funds by conference.

 

[DrZzzz]

Even if there's only a little profit it is weird the NCAA awards no money to the teams that play on the women's tourney. What could possibly be the reason for that?

Is there any profit? I would think they lose money. As far as I know the only NCAA sports that are profitable are football and men’s basketball. I’m sure the UConn women’s team is an exception, but I believe overall college sports bleed money.

 

[Huskybass]

Good one but that doesn’t change the fact that the ncaa undervalues Womens sports and it feeds into the false narrative that nobody cares about Womens sports

NCAA Undervalued Women’s Basketball Tournament by Millions While Prioritizing Men’s Tourney, Report Finds

The NCAA has undervalued its annual women’s basketball tournament by tens of millions of dollars, according to a report by a law firm hired by the NCAA.

www.wsj.com

What false narrative?

 

[superjohn]

Is there any profit? I would think they lose money. As far as I know the only NCAA sports that are profitable are football and men’s basketball. I’m sure the UConn women’s team is an exception, but I believe overall college sports bleed money.

No they don't make any profit. I think there's five sports which are profitable. Football, men's basketball, baseball, men's wrestling, and men's hockey. Men's basketball covers almost all the costs for all the other NCAA sports.

 

[CL82]

Is there any profit? I would think they lose money. As far as I know the only NCAA sports that are profitable are football and men’s basketball. I’m sure the UConn women’s team is an exception, but I believe overall college sports bleed money.

That is my understanding as well.

 

[How Sway?!]

Two things can be true at once.

Is the women's tournament as valuable as the men's tournament? No

Is the women's tournament undervalued by the NCAA? Yes

If the women's tournament were to go to market as a standalone property and not tied to the remaining championships, it would certainly return a profit.

 

[Huskybass]

Two things can be true at once.

Is the women's tournament as valuable as the men's tournament? No

Is the women's tournament undervalued by the NCAA? Yes

If the women's tournament were to go to market as a standalone property and not tied to the remaining championships, it would certainly return a profit.

Please explain that last sentence. How would it instantly become profitable when it hasn't been profitable for so long? How would it instantly become profitable when it hasn't been profitable for so long?

 

[How Sway?!]

Please explain that last sentence. How would it instantly become profitable when it hasn't been profitable for so long? How would it instantly become profitable when it hasn't been profitable for so long?

The women's tournament is currently packaged with a the non men's NCAA tournament for tv purposes. If it were sold as a standalone property it would fetch around $100 million per year. The women's tournament cost 14.5 million in 2019, even assuming a 20% growth over the last couple of years, it would still come out with a profit.

 

[CTBasketball]

Have the NCAA and each college fund their each specific sport with its own revenue.

You want a good mens crew team? Bust out the cash donors.

 

[bobbyinaz]

While everyone is trying to figure out how much the NCAA makes versus what it spends they are burning through $40+MM/year in BS outside legal fees trying to keep kids "amateurs"

 

[superjohn]

Two things can be true at once.

Is the women's tournament as valuable as the men's tournament? No

Is the women's tournament undervalued by the NCAA? Yes

If the women's tournament were to go to market as a standalone property and not tied to the remaining championships, it would certainly return a profit.

I'm all for having them do that and then they can spread their profits out accordingly to their teams.

 

[superjohn]

The 4.85 million viewers tuning in across ESPN networks Sunday was the most-watched cable program of the day, an audience increase of 18 percent year-over-year and 30 percent from 2019. The matchup peaked from 10-10:15 p.m. ET with 5.91 million viewers across ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU, as South Carolina captured its second national title during ESPN’s MegaCast presentation.

2022 NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Championship is Most-Watched Season Finale in Nearly Two Decades – 4.85 Million Viewers on ESPN Networks

South Carolina’s wire-to-wire victory in the 2022 NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Championship scored 4.85 million viewers Sunday night..

espnpressroom.com

UConn's 2OT win most-watched women's Elite Eight game in 16 years

For the second-straight year, a UConn epic in the Elite Eight delivered one of ESPN's best-ever Women's NCAA Tournament audiences.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

The UConn women were one of the best draws in

That's a great # for them and whatever revenue generated should go the women's basketball teams.

 

[upstater]

Is there any profit? I would think they lose money. As far as I know the only NCAA sports that are profitable are football and men’s basketball. I’m sure the UConn women’s team is an exception, but I believe overall college sports bleed money.

I think you're confusing what is profitable for the schools with what is profitable for the NCAA. Two different things.

NCAA Women's Tournament TV rights could have different look

The NCAA Women’s Basketball Tournament reported strong viewership numbers this week

www.usatoday.com

This article shows that ESPN pays $34m for 29 games. ESPN quickly sold out its advertising allotments. But this deal was negotiated in 2011. The Knight Commission has received an analysis of the tournament that values it at $100m.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, respectfully disagree. There is a whole lot of speculation in that report. It’s been discussed ad nauseam, but, the fair market value for women’s basketball has been established by the market. It is the price that ESPN pays CBS for the rights. The fact that someone “imagines“ that the woman’s tournament can make more really doesn’t change that. For what it’s worth, I’ve read the underlined report and it is “speculative“ at best.

That said, on a go forward basis, I’d suggest the same “profit“ sharing rules be applied to both the men’s and women’s tournament. Further, I would suggest that the rates be sold separately, and not as a bundle with the men’s basketball rights. In that way the value of the rights can be agreed-upon, as key in the expenses of the tournaments and whether or not there is a net profit.

The $34m per year was signed in 2011. Sounds like a bad contract that went way too long. For 29 games? They make $40m+ on ticket sales to the tourney. That's $74m.

The cost of renting an arena seems negligible for 29 games. Just $5k to $20k as I looked for NCAA tourney arena rental fees. Some places charge $1 to get the foot traffic in town.

 

[upstater]

The same reason the schools in the Cross Country and Rifle championships aren't awarded money, they don't bring any money into the NCAA.

Huh--I didn't know rifle was televised on national TV, that it made tens of millions in ticket sales and tens of millions in TV fees.

 

[upstater]

The argument here that this is a women's sports concern is strange in that this is a UConn board and IF there were a payout for women's tournaments, UConn would stand to gain more than a great many schools in the country.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think not hyping up the women's tournament as much as the men's is why fewer people watch it and not calling it March Madness plays into that.

Really, that’s why. So by your theory, regular season mens and womens basketball would both be generating the same amount of revenue?

 

[superjohn]

Huh--I didn't know rifle was televised on national TV, that it made tens of millions in ticket sales and tens of millions in TV fees.

It probably loses the same amount or less money than women's basketball does for the NCAA. I certainly wouldn't expect people to think they should get the same amount of payout as men's basketball does considering men's basketball brings in around $1 billion for the NCAA.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I think you're confusing what is profitable for the schools with what is profitable for the NCAA. Two different things.

Other than perhaps travel allowances (and negotiating costs) I'm not sure what expenses are incurred by the NCAA for any tournament televised by a third party.

What the NCAA should have been doing all along is disburse some amount (similar in percentage across all sports) of the profits of all television revenues from championship tournaments to the participants utilizing some uniform formula.

ESPN provides broadcasts of NCAA championships for lacrosse, baseball, softball, men's & women's (limited) ice hockey and likely many other sports that I haven't named. If the NCAA is pocketing the money they receive for these broadcast rights and only distributing portions for the men's basketball tournament they are idiotic as even if this does distribute more funds than a model that would isolate each sport, there is no means to demonstrate that the distributions are in any way equitable.

 

[pj]

Agree completely! In prior years, I didn’t watch the women’s tournaments at all because I was confused that it wasn’t called March madness.

Me too. I used to not watch the women's tournament because it wasn't called March madness. Now I don't watch because it's women's basketball.

 

[NJHusky]

You are very close to seeing the point that I'm making

And if they did raise the prices what would the attendance be?