OT: - KG, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, & Big Baby Speak on Ray | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: KG, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, & Big Baby Speak on Ray

Dogdeacon said:
Seems pretty simple to see both sides in the wrong, Ray for not contacting his teammates in person (understandable from UConn fan's perspective b/c we know Ray is aloof or socially awkward) and petty for the others for holding a grudge for so long. To me the one act by Ray so long ago is trumped by the continual berating and harping on this by Rondo, KG, Pierce and others, but I still think the onus is on Ray to be the bigger man and apologize - simply b/c those guys have a group think about it, have proven that they are going to keep holding a grudge and lastly Ray has more to lose by not apologizing.

Ray can apologize and still have the public higher ground of being the bigger man via an apology when at least some will say he didn't need to. I think he should do that with Pierce and Garnett.

Problem is Rondo and him truly hate each other and that apology is likely never happening plus those guys picking Rondo's side further divides. Rondo wisely didn't speak in that segment because he knows his vitrol for Ray would come off very poorly - so Rondo can keep the grudge and stay somewhat on the perceived right side of public perception. So the stalemate persists.
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I'm sure polycom won't find this post "objective" enough . . .
 
intlzncster said:
You called him a clownfaced big nobody.
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That was me. I called him that because that's what he is. In the grand scheme of all time NBA PG's he's a big fat nobody. As for the clownface reference? Ask every one of his former and current team.
 
I get the feeling of "you couldn't have called?"

But really, a bunch of smaller details don't get discussed out front, so it's just "dude left our squad for our rivals and never even called!"

How about the guy who sacrificed shots and all that? The Rondo disputes (I'm not in the know, but Rondo doesn't have the most sterling rep in these areas), the constant trade rumors, and best of all, the idea that this core of players was past its prime and Ray was closer to the end (as @HuskyFich points out) leads to the question, "was he REALLY in the wrong for leaving that way?"
 
intlzncster said:
Hitting a big shot, and believe me, that was big, does not make you a super star. See Robert Horry. On that Miami team, there were two in Wade and Lebron.
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Your right, Ray isn't a superstar. Haha...just holds the record for most 3's made of all time, considered the greatest shooter of all time, 1st ballot HoF, top 25 player of all time (IMO) but yeah...hes not a superstar. You're a joke bro.
 
UConnfan8 said:
Your right, Ray isn't a superstar. Haha...just holds the record for most 3's made of all time, considered the greatest shooter of all time, 1st ballot HoF, top 25 player of all time (IMO) but yeah...hes not a superstar. You're a joke bro.
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By that point in his career, he wasn't a superstar anymore. But he certainly was when he joined the Celtics (and for the first few years), and nobody gave up more to make that team work than he did.
 
Top 25 player of all time? Huh, that's absurd.

Steph will break the 3 and shoots a much better % and Klay has a chance to too

But I agree, he's absolutely a 1st ballot HOFer



UConnfan8 said:
Your right, Ray isn't a superstar. Haha...just holds the record for most 3's made of all time, considered the greatest shooter of all time, 1st ballot HoF, top 25 player of all time (IMO) but yeah...hes not a superstar. You're a joke bro.
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I agree with Russillo that him calling to tell them wouldn't have changed anything. I think there is a tendency to make things more complicated than they have to be in these situations - break-ups are about as fundamentally hurtful as it gets and oftentimes the search to dignify them is futile.

By the same rate, though, the "his feelings got hurt" is an all too convenient way to normalize insensitive behavior. So what if that's the case? "Hurt feelings" are from the same rotation as "political correctness" in that they seek to trivialize the source of the conflict when it doesn't really matter. If "hurt feelings" means "something that was really special to us ended abruptly and I'm upset about it" then I don't see what the problem is.

Ultimately, I think he left for three reasons:

1. He was losing minutes to Bradley

2. He hated Rondo

3. The idea of playing with LeBron sounded really fun

I don't really think there is a need to make meaning of it beyond that. I can understand why Ray did what he did and I can understand why they're upset. It ended up working out better for one party than the other and that's probably why one is still complaining about it and the other isn't. It's just not really worth arguing about beyond that, IMO.
 
Good for Ray those guys. Pierce, KG and Rondo holding a grudge is somewhat understandable, but Perk and Big Baby really need to grow up those guys rode the coat tails of KG.
 
Rocktheworld said:
Actually their amalgamation as the first "Big 3" completely changed professional basketball. Agree with everything else
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But they weren't even close to being the "first" big 3. I mean the C's themselves traded for McHale and Parish to surround Bird in the 80s; Rodman, Pippen, Jordan; Jabbar, Worthy, Magic; Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Admiral... Hell, the Lakers a few years prior to the C's put together Payton, Malone, Shaq, and Kobe in what was supposed to be some sort of super team. Granted two of them were long past their prime but...
 
JSM1970 said:
Top 25 player of all time? Huh, that's absurd.

Steph will break the 3 and shoots a much better % and Klay has a chance to too

But I agree, he's absolutely a 1st ballot HOFer
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You've showed a lot of restraint. I would have guessed you hated all of them for being in a union.
 
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I've got no issue with them not inviting Ray to their private vacation celebration. They shouldn't be forced to hang out with anyone they don't want to. But to not include Ray as part of an on-air reunion of that championship team seems childish on their part. Ray was a major part of that team's success and I can't see how they can hold a celebration without including him.
 
Yeah, how didn't Ray want to continue to associate with these guys. They're the very definition of warmth. It boggles the mind.
 
Who gives a sheet about the collective feelings of a bunch of millionaires who masquerade a as a dynasty but only won 1 title?

Ray left, who cares?
 
Even if you believe that Ray was wrong for not calling ahead and giving a heads up about leaving, the way these guys have acted over the years over this issue far exceed Ray's initial transgression. This is definitely not the first time they've trashed Ray on TV, in podcasts or articles. If anyone should apologize it's these guys for constantly bringing up how Ray wronged them and how he's not a part of their exclusive 'family'.

I'm not even talking about any of the other stuff like how he was treated prior to leaving or the Rondo feud. Just on the face of it, how can you side with these guys after all this time and all the crap they've talked?
 
I could care less about any of this one way or the other. But, I mean get over it already. Whiny b*tch*s.
 
champs99and04 said:
Ultimately, I think he left for three reasons:

1. He was losing minutes to Bradley

2. He hated Rondo

3. The idea of playing with LeBron sounded really fun

I don't really think there is a need to make meaning of it beyond that. I can understand why Ray did what he did and I can understand why they're upset. It ended up working out better for one party than the other and that's probably why one is still complaining about it and the other isn't. It's just not really worth arguing about beyond that, IMO.
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I think Ray handled the situation in the same detached, fact-based manner in which he approaches just about everything. He left because he know that this particular group of aging players was no longer a threat to win the title, and that he himself could no longer shoulder the load of being one of the top 3 guys on a contending team. That he hated Rondo with the white hot passion of 1,000 suns just made the decision emotionally easier.
 
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boog204 said:
But they weren't even close to being the "first" big 3. I mean the C's themselves traded for McHale and Parish to surround Bird in the 80s; Rodman, Pippen, Jordan; Jabbar, Worthy, Magic; Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Admiral... Hell, the Lakers a few years prior to the C's put together Payton, Malone, Shaq, and Kobe in what was supposed to be some sort of super team. Granted two of them were long past their prime but...
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I don't know nearly enough about BBall history, so I'll ask: did those other examples add one piece at a time? Because part of the whole Big 3 thing, which then happened exactly the same with LeBron and Bosh in Miami, is a conspired and coordinated addition of multiple stars at the same time i.e. Ray and KG

Also did those teams go immediately from 24-58 to title once their respective Big 3s were completed?
 
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Rocktheworld said:
I don't know nearly enough about BBall history, so I'll ask: did those other examples add one piece at a time? Because part of the whole Big 3 thing, which then happened exactly the same with LeBron and Bosh in Miami, is a conspired and coordinated addition of multiple stars at the same time i.e. Ray and KG

Also did those teams go immediately from 24-58 to title once their respective Big 3s were completed?
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That's kinda the idea -- this was the first "let's trade our big future assets to pair 2 individual stars to team up with a current star" situation.

The 04 Lakers was a couple end of the road (i.e. every championship team, Ray-Heat/Gasol-Spurs) former stars title chasing.

The Magic TRIED but via FA with Mcgrady, Hill, Kidd, Duncan, but they only got 2 and you probably know the rest ...

The Celtics were the first real iteration of that big 3 as a plan, that was enacted as planned, and that worked quickly.
 
So, after 4 pages here and multiple other threads on the subject, let me see if I got this straight:

On one hand, you have a man who treats basketball as part of life, not its entirety, and who has: testified before Congress (re: juvenile diabetes); played golf with the president on numerous occasions; been named to the board of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum; partakes in educational trips (Poland/concentration camps); takes part in USO tour; is known as a voracious reader; plays the piano; collects art; won an NBA Sportsmanship Award; won multiple awards as "best interviewer" given by NBA beat reporters (don't recall precise name of award or if they still bestow it), yet he is the socially awkward one? The one with Asperger?

On the other hand, you have: one man who is known for punching a teammate in the face during practice; getting on all fours and barking like a dog at an opponent; talking about getting his AK and other weapons to go to war (aka a basketball game); known to take a cheap shot or two...; than you have another who outside of basketball is known for playing high-stakes poker; possibly throwing gang signs; and??? The others aren't even worth discussing. Yet, they are the role models, the "good guys".

Maybe, just maybe, Ray didn't have a hell of a lot in common with these guys outside of a basketball court? Nothing more, nothing less. He made a decision he felt was best for him and his situation. The didn't/don't need to like it -- but good Lord, grow up and get over it.
 
k9fanatic said:
So, after 4 pages here and multiple other threads on the subject, let me see if I got this straight:

On one hand, you have a man who treats basketball as part of life, not its entirety, and who has: testified before Congress (re: juvenile diabetes); played golf with the president on numerous occasions; been named to the board of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum; partakes in educational trips (Poland/concentration camps); takes part in USO tour; is known as a voracious reader; plays the piano; collects art; won an NBA Sportsmanship Award; won multiple awards as "best interviewer" given by NBA beat reporters (don't recall precise name of award or if they still bestow it), yet he is the socially awkward one? The one with Asperger?

On the other hand, you have: one man who is known for punching a teammate in the face during practice; getting on all fours and barking like a dog at an opponent; talking about getting his AK and other weapons to go to war (aka a basketball game); known to take a cheap shot or two...; than you have another who outside of basketball is known for playing high-stakes poker; possibly throwing gang signs; and??? The others aren't even worth discussing. Yet, they are the role models, the "good guys".

Maybe, just maybe, Ray didn't have a hell of a lot in common with these guys outside of a basketball court? Nothing more, nothing less. He made a decision he felt was best for him and his situation. The didn't/don't need to like it -- but good Lord, grow up and get over it.
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I can't imagine anyone's going to post anything more cringeworthy than this today. Good lord. "is known as a voracious reader." You weren't embarrassed for yourself typing this? He's not your daughter. He's a dude you don't know.
 
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k9fanatic said:
On the other hand, you have: one man who is known for punching a teammate in the face during practice; getting on all fours and barking like a dog at an opponent; talking about getting his AK and other weapons to go to war (aka a basketball game); known to take a cheap shot or two...; than you have another who outside of basketball is known for playing high-stakes poker; possibly throwing gang signs; and??? The others aren't even worth discussing. Yet, they are the role models, the "good guys".
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I nearly spit out the water I was drinking reading that. I almost forgot about all the stupid antics from Garnett. The guy was constantly picking fights with guys like Jose Calderon and Matt Bonner...

Another point for Ray. I can't remember exactly when, perhaps 2004 or 2005 free agency. When Ray was asked if he'd consider the Raptors as a potential destination, responded 'of course, Toronto is a world class city' while the rest of NBA just made jokes about igloos and eskimos. Ray has always had more class than the average NBA star.
 
Nope. Not embarrassed at all. My point being that reading was his way of passing time on the plane. I've read many stories that talk about his giving his teammates books as Christmas presents. But, whatever...I know how sensitive some of you Celtic fans can be.
 
k9fanatic said:
Nope. Not embarrassed at all. My point being that reading was his way of passing time on the plane. I've read many stories that talk about his giving his teammates books as Christmas presents. But, whatever...I know how sensitive some of you Celtic fans can be.
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I don't think he is sensitive, I suspect he's just an ...
Of course he's just a dude you don't know, talking about another dude he doesn't know, writing about things he doesn't know, so it's all speculation wrapped up as if it is informed opinion. BY lawyers are noted for their tight grasp on the pearls.
 
My biggest problem with these guys running their mouths like this is that they only won the NBA Finals once.

The only finished atop the Eastern Conference once.

They were 1-1 in the NBA Finals against a relatively overrated Laker team and ended their season losing to the Magic and constantly losing to the Heat towards the end.

They couldn't continue their success after 2007-2008 and now they're just salty. Ray did what he thought was a good career move and they are criticizing him for a business move, when all of them left in the end.
 
k9fanatic said:
Nope. Not embarrassed at all. My point being that reading was his way of passing time on the plane. I've read many stories that talk about his giving his teammates books as Christmas presents. But, whatever...I know how sensitive some of you Celtic fans can be.
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This has little or nothing to do with the Celtics so lose that thought, but you make some solid points on your original post for sure!
 
UCDaveD said:
People forget how badly Ainge treated Ray.

And why were Perk and Baby even on that set? Those clowns were both gone a year before Ray even left.
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Wait Perkins wasn't even on the team when Ray left? Hilarious.

By name dropping Ray Allen, Durant, and Westbrook on that dopey segment Perkins has gotten more attention since like, ever.
 
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